How to reconcile male and female perspective on creepiness

[Polchinski]

So true, Mr. Stevens. But I've noticed that both men and women are significantly more baffled by one another's behavior than they are by that of their own sex. I have to think that has to do with significantly different ways of seeing thing.

How do they end up getting married then?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

Judge and LadyS are right.

Try thinking of it this way: creep has to do with how behavior makes the other person feel. Like if a bug crawls on you. The sense of chills and vulnerability. This is what they're describing. I'm not saying these guys are innocent, or safe, but that's what creep alludes to. It's more a gut feeling reaction concerning safety. Beyond that, it's hard to pin down. People say it because they don't have the time to analyze more, or their safety might be at risk.

 

[Polchinski]

I can usually tell but that's irrespective of their "creepy factor", whatever that is. "Creepiness" has nothing to do with understanding intent.

But if creepiness implies danger, then it should be somehow related to intend. Otherwise, how can those men be dangerous without having intent to be such?

So, if you reflect on how you evaluated men in the past, you remember evaluating their intents on one hand, and evaluating creep factors on the other. Were there any correlation between the two?

But I do think in general, if one wants to increase their chances of a relationship, increasing their social circle size isn't too far-fetched of an idea to begin with,

So how should I do it? I tried going to church, but nobody approaches me.

 

[The Pandector]

A wow means a surprise. It doesn't mean anger. At least not when I use it.

In fact usually surprise is a good thing, since it gives me an opportunity to learn something new.



Yeah, "target" was the word I was looking for.

So, to rephrase my question: I didn't realize women look at complete strangers as targets. How often does it happen?

I apologize for taking you to be offended. Peace.
How often does it happen to me? There was once in junior high, and then there was the time on the ship. If it happened besides that, I wasn't aware; I'd remember.

How often does it happen on a cruise ship filled with way more widows than widowers? I don't want to know; once was enough.

The reason I had that thought is because they didn't wait for a few hours it took to get out of elevator. So is it really THAT urgent that they have to know it now, not even the next day?

I'm no expert here. I had no idea that some of these cruises are floating meat markets. I was out in the open and paid the price. I think the urgency was that I was right there, and they needed to disposition me before the elevator ride was over and I disappeared back into the herd. I suspect the aggressive granny would have gotten a finder's fee if I had fallen to any of the others. But I wouldn't say, generally, that women do that.

 

[Judge]

But it is wrong to express it for the person as a WHOLE.

There you go again, conditionally thinking. People don't care about such things in an informal, colloquial conversation. Just let go of it.

 

[Polchinski]

Try thinking of it this way: creep has to do with how behavior makes the other person feel.

But, by that definition, someone creepy would be a victim (of prejudice) rather than a perpetrator (of harm).

Let me give you an example. Lets say you are liberal, and you are talking about the plight of black people. Would you say "black people are creepy" in reference to white racism (after all, racism would cause a white person to be uncomfortable and, therefore, make black person fit the definition of creepy).

On the other hand, lets say that you are not liberal and, instead, you want to talk about black crime. Or better yet: there is that black guy walking in the dark alley, and you feel its perfectly justified to be afraid of him. Would you be more likely to use the word creepy in this case?

Now you see what I am getting at? The above two examples seem to suggest that the word refers to the person's attitude rather than how that person is being perceived.

People say it because they don't have the time to analyze more, or their safety might be at risk.

But if it is the issue of perception rather than intent then it might not be a safety issue. For example aspies are disliked yet they are not dangerous.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Ok this may be the problem .
Don’t think of women as different .
They are people .
I am not saying this about you but I have noticed lots of men look @ women as trophies ( rich men with models ) the examples and psychology of this is to much to list on here , also how women and men can commodify their appearance is everywhere , instagram, commercials etc etc .

This creates a problem . Especially for shy and socially awkward people . Including myself .

What I have learned is as hard as this is ignore all of this. Look at people as people . Even if a women is pretty who cares . They are a person. Practice your social skills and talk to them with respect and understanding as you would with anybody.

Being Autistic the odds are against us not being socially perfect and having all the tools necessary to have a conversation. Maybe it does not even have to be a conversation. A simple hello and goodbye is adequate.

Just try talking to men and women the same.

That's the way I have lived the works for me.

 

[The Pandector]

How do they end up getting married then?

Well, you went and asked a Christian that question, but I'll try to moderate my answer. Men and women (not all, mind you; there are many exceptions, but in general...) have an innate need for the companionship of a mate. Most, these days, are attracted to the opposite sex for this company. This works pretty well, especially if you want to have children. There are also traits characteristic of the separate sexes which complement those of the opposite sex.

Plus, there's the whole thing where they... you know.

 

[Polchinski]

I'm no expert here. I had no idea that some of these cruises are floating meat markets.

Are you saying that some people do go to cruises to find dates? Would you suggest I do that?

 

[Mr. Stevens]

But, by that definition, someone creepy would be a victim (of prejudice) rather than a perpetrator (of harm).

Let me give you an example. Lets say you are liberal, and you are talking about the plight of black people. Would you say "black people are creepy" in reference to white racism (after all, racism would cause a white person to be uncomfortable and, therefore, make black person fit the definition of creepy).

On the other hand, lets say that you are not liberal and, instead, you want to talk about black crime. Or better yet: there is that black guy walking in the dark alley, and you feel its perfectly justified to be afraid of him. Would you be more likely to use the word creepy in this case?

Now you see what I am getting at? The above two examples seem to suggest that the word refers to the person's attitude rather than how that person is being perceived.

Yes, they could be a victim of prejudice. But see my response below.

But if it is the issue of perception rather than intent then it might not be a safety issue. For example aspies are disliked yet they are not dangerous.

That's the point, though. It might not be a safety issue, but you can't take that risk.

 

[Polchinski]

Well, you went and asked a Christian that question,

I am a Christian too. I don't want sex before marriage.

Although I want to know both Christian and secular perspective, since I want to know what people think.

 

[Polchinski]

Men and women (not all, mind you; there are many exceptions, but in general...) have an innate need for the companionship of a mate. Most, these days, are attracted to the opposite sex for this company. This works pretty well, especially if you want to have children. There are also traits characteristic of the separate sexes which complement those of the opposite sex.

Plus, there's the whole thing where they... you know.

I meant to ask how do they manage get past the communication gaps.

I want opposite sex too, but I can't get a relationship because of all those communication issues. How do thy manage to go past them, if, as you said, men and women think differently?

 

[Polchinski]

That's the point, though. It might not be a safety issue, but you can't take that risk.

Is the meaning of "creepy", then, something along the lines of "probability of a threat being far from 0". Since they only said "far from 0" but never said "close to 100%", they are not "wrong". And since the value of probability is different depending to the amount of information you have, thats why different people can assign different probabilities (hence different answers to the creep question) and all be right?

 

[The Pandector]

Are you saying that some people do go to cruises to find dates? Would you suggest I do that?

It is an undeniable truth that many people go on cruises to meet potentials, but I would never recommend that as a way for a Christian man to meet eligible women. I wouldn't be surprised if there are 'Christian' cruises available, if you're able to look into that.

 

[LadyS]

But if creepiness implies danger, then it should be somehow related to intend. Otherwise, how can those men be dangerous without having intent to be such?

So, if you reflect on how you evaluated men in the past, you remember evaluating their intents on one hand, and evaluating creep factors on the other. Were there any correlation between the two?



So how should I do it? I tried going to church, but nobody approaches me.

Lol. Never said creepiness implies danger. Nor have I ever evaluated creepiness in anyone and have already said one has nothing to do with the other. You're bringing up creepiness as a measurable factor and I only stated one possible scenario of why someone MIGHT consider someone creepy. And that's just a guess.

I'm not sure how anyone should expand their social circle except go to more social-type events? I don't know - I have social anxiety so I generally stay away from expanding mine. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

[Polchinski]

It is an undeniable truth that many people go on cruises to meet potentials, but I would never recommend that as a way for a Christian man to meet eligible women.

So are you saying you weren't a Christian back then? Or were you, and you just were unaware of it?

I wouldn't be surprised if there are 'Christian' cruises available, if you're able to look into that.

Maybe I can find Christian cruises the same place you found that other cruise? Did you use a website or where did you look?

 

[Polchinski]

I'm not sure how anyone should expand their social circle except go to more social-type events?

I can go to social events all I want and nobody approaches me. For example, I went to the orientation session, I grabbed my food, sat at the table. Nobody sat by me.

Hence the question: do I look creepy? Is this why nobody approaches me?

 

[Polchinski]

Lol. Never said creepiness implies danger.

How do you define it then?

 

[Judge]

I want opposite sex too, but I can't get a relationship because of all those communication issues. How do thy manage to go past them, if, as you said, men and women think differently?

Consider our divorce rate. People may "connect" for a time, but I'm not sure that actually constitutes real success in getting past the difficult aspects of courtship. Where a "good relationship" may only appear as such.

Implying that everyone has difficulty in communicating with others in terms of courtship. Ok, at least 50%.

 

[Polchinski]

Consider our divorce rate. People may "connect" for a time, but I'm not sure that actually constitutes real success in getting past the difficult aspects of courtship.

As a Christian I am against divorce, so I won't envy that.

But the question remains: why is it that they connect for a much longer time than I am ever able to?