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How does the mind of an illogical person work?

I had a relative who was proud to announce that she was not logical.
This seemed important to her. It was as if she believed that being
"not logical" meant she had freedom of choice, that she was extra
creative or something.

It looked to me that she was afraid of being controlled.

Could well be little more than just a defense mechanism of sorts.
 
My ASD father used to complain that my NT mother was not being logical, she was being emotional. This was done with the clear implication that she was therefore wrong (and possibly, a little stupid).

He was in the wrong, actually. Your wife is entirely entitled to her emotions, and to criticize her for them is shooting yourself in the foot.

But this was before any such acronyms as ASD and NT existed. Maybe neither of them were wrong, maybe they were just somewhat incompatible.
 
@Libecht , I wouldn't automatically assume that a different logic is necessarily illogical. I have seen articles where male thought processes (even at Mensa level) are different than equivalent female ones, but both come to the same conclusions...! Vive la différence!
 
Have you been wrong about something in the past? Gotten into an argument about it despite the fact that you later found out you were actually incorrect? Well... how were you feeling back then, and what were you thinking? There's your answer.

In case you never did have this (which means you are either perfect, or that you never challenge your own preconceived notions), here's a more complex answer since I did have such an epiphany. Many in fact. Most about computer games.

Ignorance: Someone can just not understand how to correctly analyze information. If you have an idea, particularly about bodybuilding or nutrition, chances are pretty good you can find something, even a research paper, that supports it. If someone is unable to see which studies are flawed and which possible issues are with the studies that do seem reliable then obviously they will remain ignorant no matter how much contrary information they receive because to them it's all equally valid due to their ignorance of correct scientific method.

This can also require extremely specific knowledge in some circumstances. I have seen mountains and mountains of research done on losing weight, gaining muscle, optimal nutrition levels, etc and 99% of the stuff out there is completely stupid. You would think that any scientist or person funding a study where there's no conflict of interest would see that the study they are about to conduct is absolutely flawed and stupid in it's methodology and would not provide any answers whatsoever. But nope. Ignorance. And it's not 1 or 2 studies here. It's literally 99% of them. Literally. Do you know how many correctly executed research papers there are that show the optimal protein intake for building muscle? 1. There's hundreds of them incorrectly executed with different outcomes. So imagine you get into a discussion about this. That 1 study correctly done has more weight than all of the hundreds of silly nonsense studies combined. But if you can't analyze that, or don't feel like looking through the actual methodology of hundreds of studies, you would never see it as such.

Inherit bias: An interesting scientific fact is that we need more evidence to change our opinion than to initially set it. It's evolutionary biology and everyone has this to some degree. Combine this with the fact that people's opinions are initially set due to what they want to be true, and you have a nice mix that results in cantchangemymindium. It's not just relegated to the stupid masses. History is littered with extremely intelligent scientists that made revolutionary discoveries that at one point turned into stubborn biased fools in their own field of science. They knew everything there was to be known at the time, and honestly at that point it could've been either way, but instead of accepting the possibility of an alternative solution they wouldn't have any of it and in the end they turned out to be wrong.

Ethical bias: The final component of the holy trinity of internet discussions. Similar to inherit bias, except this one is powered by emotion and what one feels that should be true, or what they want to be true. Inherit bias is always there, and it's extremely powerful all on it's own. When ethical bias is coming along, things get extremely difficult. With ethical bias there is a feeling that something just can't be true or has to be true that adds more resistance to evidence that suggests something in defiance to their world view. This is pretty much always the case on at least one side (usually both) when the discussion is about religion or politics.

If you know anything about bodybuilding forums, you know that discussions can get extremely heated just based on ignorance and inherit bias alone, with ethical bias added to that it is impossible to change someone's mind. 100% impossible. The only way to change this state is to change the only variable that can be changed, ignorance. And good luck with that when there's both inherit bias and ethical bias involved. It usually only happens when a person actually decides to challenge their preconceived notions due to their own desire for the truth, rather than anything you can say. Although something can spark it, albeit only when someone's mind is open to it. It often doesn't even take much to convince someone when they are ready to think differently, you probably just happened to come along at the right time rather than any magical argument you made.

So what they are thinking or feeling when they are debating you? Well it's pretty simple: That they are right and that you are wrong. In fact, the feeling and thought pattern is pretty much the same on both sides of a discussion. It depends on the person, but usually annoyance, anger, frustration are part of how people feel. Even when purely talking about scientific matters (so no ethical bias), people tend to get emotional in discussions. Sheer disbelief that someone could think differently, how they could be so stupid to not see things the "right" way. So yea, probably the same way that you feel, although it's slightly different for everyone, but largely the same.
 
This video by asapSCIENCE should tell a bunch how an illogical person's brain works whenever it comes to conspiracies. I assume this is what you were asking, anyways.
 
I'm guessing that they may understand their illogicality when you point it out, but maybe they don't want to admit it, so they grasp at straws and make up weird arguments to prove their point. Maybe they just don't want to yield their stance on the subject. I'm not quite sure.

And then on the other hand, I think that I'm fairly logical, but my family tells me I don't make sense. I think we have different thought processes. We might be looking at the same thing, but draw completely different conclusions from it.
 
You could check out Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman. It's a really interesting book about all kinds of biases in decision making that people make and it explains how the brain arrives at those biased decisions.
 
Illogicality is closely associated with feelings and opinions.
Logical people typically treat opinions like something they use/carry around with them. When they realize that a more sound and logical argument is out there, there won't be any problem for them to ditch the previous one and adopt the latter, since these people are not attach that opinion in any ways.
Illogical people, however, would grow attached to the opinion, whether it is emotional or if they think the opinion is intuitively correct. Now, when they encounter a more logical opinion, they will not listen, because the previous opinion had become a part of themselves. This is when illogicality really bothers me.

Just some underdeveloped rambling of my own opinion here:).
 
We like to think that we are logical creatures. Those of us who have difficulty connecting with our emotions tend to be especially proud of being logical.

But it’s not true. Not even a bit. We are all driven by our emotions.

We don’t enter into relationships because we have evaluated their probability of having a successful and fulfilling relationship - we enter into relationships because of emotional attachments.

We choose houses, cars, jobs (when we have a choice), food, clothes, entertainment, hobbies, and everything else based on how it makes us feel. Heck, we don’t stim because we have evaluated our need for a certain level of mental activity - we stim because it makes us feel better.

In trying to understand people, I have found one rule that never fails:

If you can know how a situation makes a person feel, you can perfectly predict or explain their behavior in that situation.

The people you think are illogical are acting on their feelings. When I see that, I ask myself what feelings would lead to that behavior. That helps me understand that person.

If a person has invested a lot of their identity in being right, being an authority, etc., then you will see some very ‘illogical’ behavior when they are questioned. If you take away someone’s source of security, they will deny facts, defy reason, and lash out in astonishing ways.

Not one single one of us is logical. No such being exists. We are all driven by our emotions.
 
Some people with autism, like myself, aren't very logical.

We might care less for "who's right and who's wrong" and simply respect each other's differences of belief. We ally with each other, rather than warring; the former can result in great mutualism.

Sure, we could nitpick each other to pieces, but I'd rather: put down my sword, and give someone a hug.

I've managed to befriend multifarious types of people, simply by: respecting their perspectives, and giving them the space and support to voice them. I ask questions that encourage them to elaborate their beliefs and deepen the conversation. I always try to: find value in what they say, and see the positives behind it. Some people get hated, for their beliefs, and I can offer my ears, as a medium for their catharsis. I never get the urge to carp their differences or quirks.

I had a relative who was proud to announce that she was not logical.
This seemed important to her. It was as if she believed that being
"not logical" meant she had freedom of choice, that she was extra
creative or something.

It looked to me that she was afraid of being controlled.

She's right. Much of the most beautiful art, in our world, wasn't painted with rulers and straight lines; the artists had to speak from their hearts as their brushes danced. From what I've seen, logical analysis can stagnate: creativity and the action of implementing one's designs.

I was once enrolled in an engineering program, and I designed much of our systems. Some people could analyze (which has its own merits, I'll admit), but they couldn't broach any ideas or think of anything new. I imagined new technologies to solve our engineering goals, and the analysts suggested improvements, sprinkling my ideas with the logic needed to shape these mechanical contraptions into functionality. They made the suggestions, but metaphorically, what could they have watered, if I'd not planted the seed?

Someone had to be creative enough to take the risk of broaching the idea, before logic came into play. Logic is conformity, and therefore, it cannot purely constitute innovation. Novelty is speckled with weirdness, and that's why it can exist.

As meat for my point, let's consult Robert J. Sternberg's Triarchic Theory of Intelligence. It consists of three giftedness types: analytical, creative, and practical. You can research them, before or after my rant, if you like. :grinning: I'll mention only the relevant components. Each person is said to be strongest, in one of the 3 intelligence types. From Sternberg's research, "Analytical giftedness is influential in being able to take apart problems and being able to see solutions not often seen. Unfortunately, individuals with only this type are not as adept at creating unique ideas of their own [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarchic_theory_of_intelligence#Componential_–_analytical_subtheory]."
 
From Sternberg's research, "Analytical giftedness is influential in being able to take apart problems and being able to see solutions not often seen. Unfortunately, individuals with only this type are not as adept at creating unique ideas of their own [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarchic_theory_of_intelligence#Componential_–_analytical_subtheory]."

That is so interesting. I've actually made that observation about myself before.

I have solved enough hard problems at work that I have a reputation for doing it. But I've noticed - and actually told other people at work - that I don't ever come up with ideas on my own - I need someone to bring me a problem and then I solve it.
 
Everyone thinks they're in the right in their own reality, whether or not they actually are. Everyone thinks they're the main character in their life. Its only natural. Unfortunate but natural.
 
Everyone thinks they're in the right in their own reality, whether or not they actually are.
That may be true for theoretical opinions, but so-called facts (and associated choices) that immediately affect one's health & finances get put to the test pretty quickly, whether we like it or not!
 
I think a lot of times illogical people aren't really thinking at all, they are just saying the first thing that pops up. Social media exacerbates this problem. People are often pulling up random "facts" from Facebook and forming their whole belief systems around what is many times untrue or half-truth at best..
 
I'm sure most people feel like there's a connection between their premises and conclusions, or at least between their beliefs. And they may be right about that, except that often their beliefs were learned at a young age and apart from Santa and the Tooth Fairy, most learned beliefs go unexamined.
 
Illogical people, wow. They are extremely difficult for me when I have to manage them. I've found when they posture, there is no changing their minds, no matter what. Over the years, I've found these types are easily persuaded by things they see or hear from others and almost always have the opinion that if enough people say it, it must be true. These people are usually incapable of having their own thoughts and when they can't figure something out, they rely on other's opinions (often from others who are the same as them) to form conclusions. I've worked on two different continents and have observed the same traits in people who are culturally and language different. It is my opinion that these people simply fall in the low side of the bell curve and they can't help themselves. They can no better help themselves to be smarter than I can help myself to be less autistic.
 
There's quite a tension between those who privilege feelings over thinking, and those who privilege thinking over feelings. I guess these different approaches to the world can feel uncomfortable to each other, and alien or wrong, even. How we learn to be who we are in this respect can be a bit random, depending on our upbringing and life experiences, plus brain type and other factors.

Generally it seems best to try to develop our ability to see how others are seeing things and accept that they're different, yet still have some important qualities that complement our own qualities.

I tend to be introverted and a thinker, and the biggest stretch for me is communication with people who are extrovert and feelingsy. Actually I dive for cover if I see one coming. :eek: But I also try to be pleasant, if I didn't get outta the way quick enough. They have important perspectives too.
 

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