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Featured How does the mind of an illogical person work?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Libecht, Jun 4, 2019.

  1. Libecht

    Libecht Well-Known Member

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    Most people can think logically most of the time, but I've seen some reaching conclusion with no proper foundation of arguments and are completely unaware of it. I find it very difficult to reason/argue with these people because not only do they lack a clear thought process, they're also unable to realize their logical fallacies when I point them out. Or worse, when their counter arguments are irrelevant or don't even make sense.
    What exactly is going on in their minds when they're "thinking"? Do thoughts and conclusions just pop up out of nothing? Why is logic so difficult for some? Such thought process is an enigma to me and I'm genuinely curious.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
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  2. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

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    I honestly don't think anyone can pin this down to specific neurology.

    I'm going to step in here and ask that this doesn't turn into an NT bash for the sake of those who are a part of our forum that are not on the autism spectrum.

    I have seen plenty of people on the autism spectrum that defy logic on a regular basis.
     
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  3. Libecht

    Libecht Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I tried not to generalize NTs by inserting words like "most", "some" or "many", but I see that's not enough. I'll now edit the post to target it at illogical people specifically.
     
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  4. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

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    Thank you.
     
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  5. Mary Terry

    Mary Terry Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    @Nitro - I keep getting a message on my laptop when I log onto this site that a virus called "bloodhound" has been detected and quarantined by my laptop. I'm not very computer savvy but is it possible that the virus is on the website or attempting to infiltrate the website? I don't get the message when I log onto other websites.
     
  6. Nitro

    Nitro Admin/Immoral Turpitude Staff Member Admin V.I.P Member

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    I sent you a PM asking for details.
     
  7. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Illogical people think illogically. :) Yes, there are some people I know that never make any sense in their arguments. I always thought it was just lack of common sense. Not everyone has it, ya know. :)
     
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  8. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    "Some (perhaps many) people don’t know how to think. That’s different than “stupid.” Good, smart people fail at thinking, and so they appear stupid.

    All the while, thinking is as simple as basic math. Literally, it is as simple as

    1 + 2 = 3

    Easy to understand. It flows. You can convert widgets, ideas, algebraic symbols – all sorts of things – in the logical syllogism.

    A + B = C

    • + •• = •••

    This is logic, and it is the basic building block to thinking. Breaking down how to think into a simple equation like this is called the “logical syllogism,” and it is easy to swap the symbols with statements. Just replace the symbols with an opinion or agreed-upon fact – a proposition – and you have the syllogism. The formula is exactly the same:

    Major Premise + Minor Premise = Conclusion"
    People Aren't Stupid. They Just Don't Understand the Syllogism.
     
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  9. shysnail

    shysnail Well-Known Member

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    I think just remembering that people work with things other than logic is going to be your answer. Humans aren't very good at being logical on the whole, because we're more complex than that. I'll go out on a limb and say that everyone is illogical in certain situations.
     
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  10. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    "First: some simple syllogisms. They’re pretty easy. The major premise should make a factual claim, the minor premise brings in a variable that relates to the claim, and the conclusion should follow nicely. Real simple:

    • Major: Dogs are mammals.
    • Minor: Mammals have hair.
    • Conclusion: Dogs have hair.
    There are several ways to mess this up. You’d appear stupid if you do. For the sake of displaying stupidity, allow me to:

    1. Claim that dogs are reptiles. Not true.
    2. Claim mammals have leathery skin. Also not true.
    3. Disassociate the minor from the major. Following “Dogs are mammals” with something like “snakes are reptiles.” The two don’t connect.
    4. Concluding without thinking through the premises. “Dogs have hair” is just as logical as “dogs are reptiles” when you don’t consider the premises.
    5. Clinging to a conclusion that does not follow. “I don’t want dogs to have hair” means nothing logically.
    Messing up the syllogism is messing up the logic, and this is not the way to think through anything. This example is pretty tame. Not many people will disagree with either of the premises or the conclusion. But people think illogically all the time. "
    People Aren't Stupid. They Just Don't Understand the Syllogism.
     
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  11. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Where does leather come from? How would you describe an elephants skin? Not all mammals have hair. Sometimes it takes more than just logic to answer something. :) Because there are always exceptions.
     
  12. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    I don't see how anything other than logic would be required
    to solve the questions.... "where does leather come from? or How would you
    describe an elephant's skin?"

    What non- logical process do you have in mind?
     
  13. shysnail

    shysnail Well-Known Member

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    How could you answer a subjective question with logic? The texture of an elephant's skin would be very dependent on your sensory perception.
     
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  14. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    You used logic, right?
    Dogs are mammals, mammals have hair, dogs have hair. So does that mean whales have hair?
    By logic, bull mooses should not be able to stand on those spindly legs and hold up those huge antlers, but they do. So not all facts are logical.
     
  15. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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  16. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Ok, you got me on that one. But still not all facts are logical. And mammals do have leathery skin - that's what leather is. (I actually know someone who has spent so much time in the sun that her skin literally looks like leather.)
     
  17. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    Leathery is a texture which resembles the end product of
    the tanning process. Leathery and leather are not the same
    item.
     
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  18. Pats

    Pats Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    An elephant's skin is leathery.
    Here - an example of some kinds of facts that can not be based on logic. My favorite color is grey. No logic behind it.
     
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  19. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    It's always possible that your delivery of logic might be a catalyst of sorts that intimidates some people to a point where they perceive their ego is being assaulted. If so, at that point none of their responses may appear to be the least bit logical. After all, emotions can easily cloud one's sense of logic.

    Just understand that this could happen to anyone, whether they are on the spectrum or not.
     
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  20. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

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    I had a relative who was proud to announce that she was not logical.
    This seemed important to her. It was as if she believed that being
    "not logical" meant she had freedom of choice, that she was extra
    creative or something.

    It looked to me that she was afraid of being controlled.
     
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