GREEN JELLY BEAN GARDENING....etcetera...

[Maelstrom]

This is a anti evil mega corporation gardening thread: Any one who likes stuff that tastes good, and doesn't look like it crawled out of Chernobule because of evil chemicals...may post advice or ask questions here.
And yes I have more than one kind of plants right now that look like they just crawled out of Chernobules reactor, because of my fathers attacks with roundup and some horrible Dandelion spray.

So whats on deck:? Jelly bean gardening, Organic gardening, Permaculture, Poly culture, Gorilla gardening, Forest gardening, homestead gardening, survival gardening, wild gardening, aqua gardening, Micro farming and mini live stock,.... or any thing else strange and interesting off the beaten path.

Pick something fun to talk or ask about....Mael

EDDIT NOTE: I had some trouble picking a name for this thread the Jelly bean reference is about how you coat seeds with dampend powdered clay in a tumbler so you can plant seeds on unplowed ground without birds eating it. It is a ancient method of planting rice from Japan and China.

 

[Maelstrom]

I will start with milkweed, I planted some to feed my bee hive I caught last year. But the city murdered my bee hive with mosquito spray even tho I asked them to be careful. So this year no bees, no honey, just milk weed pods, so I tried some done up batter fried like okra, (which I hate), and after a very tentative bite I said hey that's not to bad, it tastes like cottage cheese, and isn't slimy. I'd recommend spicing the batter up a little, maybe curry powder.
And if you cut the pod stems back a little the milk weed reblooms and you get a second crop, remember to pick the pods before they are too big, they should be white on the inside.

And don't eat milk weed pods raw, the sap is acidic and can burn so watch on rubbing the eyes while cutting them. My milk weed is the common marsh one with light pink blooms, stay away from dog weed? which isn't fuzzy it's quite poisonous.

 

[Nitro]

I am very interested in aquaponics,a gravel based vegetable garden in combination with a small fishery with each part supporting the other.
http://theselfsufficientliving.com/12-indoor-backyard-diy-aquaponics-system-designs-plans/

My initial design plan will involve using 330 gallon food grade poly stackable tanks as the basis for construction that I have already acquired in combination with a circulating pump and plumbing. I hope to stock it with trout fingerlings and plan to grow herbs

 

[Maelstrom]

I am very interested in aquaponics,a gravel based vegetable garden in combination with a small fishery with each part supporting the other.
http://theselfsufficientliving.com/12-indoor-backyard-diy-aquaponics-system-designs-plans/

My initial design plan will involve using 330 gallon food grade poly stackable tanks as the basis for construction that I have already acquired in combination with a circulating pump and plumbing. I hope to stock it with trout fingerlings and plan to grow herbs

View attachment 19937

Thank you Nitro, keep us posted on your progress or anything cool you learn on it.

 

[Tom]

I will start with milkweed, I planted some to feed my bee hive I caught last year. But the city murdered my bee hive with mosquito spray even tho I asked them to be careful. So this year no bees, no honey, just milk weed pods, so I tried some done up batter fried like okra, (which I hate), and after a very tentative bite I said hey that's not to bad, it tastes like cottage cheese, and isn't slimy. I'd recommend spicing the batter up a little, maybe curry powder.
And if you cut the pod stems back a little the milk weed reblooms and you get a second crop, remember to pick the pods before they are too big, they should be white on the inside.

And don't eat milk weed pods raw, the sap is acidic and can burn so watch on rubbing the eyes while cutting them. My milk weed is the common marsh one with light pink blooms, stay away from dog weed? which isn't fuzzy it's quite poisonous.

Keep the Milkweed! You probably already know it is the only thing Monarch Butterflys will lay their eggs on and the only thing the caterpillars will eat. In the fall the pod will open and many seeds with filament windsails will spread, hopefully to empty lots and greenbelts. If it gets in your neighbors garden... deny it. I am trying to encourage a growing patch in a nature perserve I live in.

The Monarchs are in a terriblly steep decline. I haven't seen a single one this year, for the first time.

 

[Maelstrom]

I am very interested in aquaponics,a gravel based vegetable garden in combination with a small fishery with each part supporting the other.
http://theselfsufficientliving.com/12-indoor-backyard-diy-aquaponics-system-designs-plans/

My initial design plan will involve using 330 gallon food grade poly stackable tanks as the basis for construction that I have already acquired in combination with a circulating pump and plumbing. I hope to stock it with trout fingerlings and plan to grow herbs

View attachment 19937

That is a really nice link on Aqua farming Nitro , What do you think on coupling cricket farming to it to feed the fish?

 

[Maelstrom]

Keep the Milkweed! You probably already know it is the only thing Monarch Butterflys will lay their eggs on and the only thing the caterpillars will eat. In the fall the pod will open and many seeds with filament windsails will spread, hopefully to empty lots and greenbelts. If it gets in your neighbors garden... deny it. I am trying to encourage a growing patch in a nature perserve I live in.

The Monarchs are in a terriblly steep decline. I haven't seen a single one this year, for the first time.

Hi Tom
I was just thinking on planting some more milk weed from seed I collected in the shady side of my garden where other stuff doesn't grow well. About now is the time for collecting seed in the wild, older milk weed plants can have a horizontal cassava like root about 10" down, I don't know if moving the plant right now will work well or not they tend to go dormant after the pods dry I think, there is only one way to find out tho go dig one up and plant it, seed plants may not bloom the first year unless fertilized? .

If anyone wants the fancy dry split pods for dried flower arrangements you'll need to wait a little longer. I'm planning to do a freezer test on diced young pods when my second batch comes in, if it goes well I will try to breed a more productive okra like plant maybe?

We raised 3 monarchs last year that came in on my plants and they hatched right in front of the kids at church and they got to watch them fly away...they were all begging for baby caterpillars to raise.
Raising Monarch Caterpillars and Butterflies is something kids really enjoy, raising Praying Mantisses is also fun for kids.

 

[Beverly]

We do maintain a garden as well as fruit trees, a be hive and, milkweed, clover and thistles for them. We grow a very prolific variety of acorn squash which feeds us as well as a good portion of what our pigs need. We have swales to keep the rainwater on our property so that it supports our plants. We compost everything we can that the pigs will not eat. We raise rabbits for meat and one of the best natural fertilizers there is.

I can, freeze and otherwise preserve foods we have excess of. I cannot recall he last time I purchased meat from a sore but, we eat meat or fish every night for dinner. (we also hunt and fish for wild game.) My grocery bill for two people plus at least four guest twice a week is just 75 UDS and, that includes paper products, personal hygiene items and, all household cleaning needs.

We live semi off grid. We do have electricity from the co -op but, our wind and solar generators often feed power back to the grid so, that bill is more often a check for the excess we generate rather than a bill. We also have satellite TV and Internet service so, not entirely off grid but, if it came to it, we could be in a mater of minutes. For us it is a great peace of mind to only be partially on grid by choice and, know that we would only loose TV and internet if we took our home entirely off grid.

If we had to live without stores at all, we could but, some things would change in our diet. We would not have so many legumes, nuts or grains but, we could make do with what we have. Acorns for flour for bread, hickory nuts, peas and fava beans which we grow. Rye that grows wild here would be limited but, we would have some for breads. Kudzu taters would be another starch we could use that is a wild plant and, abundant here.

In short, if society goes to Hades in a handbasket in my lifetime, I will survive it just fine - no worries here and, in the meantime, I've got an almost entirely organic, self obtained without cash diet free of GMO foods and nasty hormones and chemicals I don't want to eat. I know where my food comes form and, if it's meat, I know what it ate while it was alive and how it was killed and butchered and, that suits me just fine.

 

[Cerulean]

This year is the first that I've had a real garden. In the past I've done a container of tomatoes maybe, a container of peppers, but they usually died before I got much food off them.

I'm renting my dad's house now, which has a good sized back yard, and I took a little 8x2 foot plot and built an elevated bed. Mixed up my own soil and started some plants from seeds inside the house, actually paid attention to things like when to plant and how far to space them. Earlier I had harvests of snap peas, carrot, and spinach, now I'm getting lots of tomatoes, cucumbers, and bell peppers. I lost a few plants to my bored dog hopping the small fence and doing some digging, and somebody nibbled off my snap pea plants before I got to have very many. There are a few other plants in there that I haven't eaten from yet and one spaghetti squash that was sacrificed to the garden gods (something burrowed into it).

I've started canning what I've got in leftovers, which I love as a great way to extend my harvest through the winter. Wherever we live next, boyfriend knows I'll probably have an even bigger garden because I love watching what grows. And all organic and pesticide free. My goal is to eventually be self sufficient in the produce department and to have a beehive.

 

[Nitro]

That is a really nice link on Aqua farming Nitro , What do you think on coupling cricket farming to it to feed the fish?

might be another plan

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="Cerulean, post: 246420, somebody nibbled off my snap pea plants before I got to have very many. [/QUOTE]

Hi Cerulean , save your plastic butter containers and wipcream ones too. Drill some 1/4" holes around the rim just below the lid, then make a little water level drain hole about a 1/2" to 3/4" below those holes. You then fill it with water to the drain hole, add a spoonful of sugar, and flour, and a little dab of bread yeast, and a tiny dab of peanut butter. Bury the butter dish near your baby plants in the spring, so the dirt is just even with the bottom of the 1/4" inch holes around the side of the rim, so the evil bugs can crawl in.

You now have a working fermentation bug/slug trap which will seduce evil baby plant eating bugs to their drownding deaths, day and night, with the heavenly smell of fermenting flour and peanut butter.

 

[Beverly]

Another way to get rid of slugs is with coffee and a plant sprayer. Just 4 TBS of instant coffee (the cheapest you can get will do, just had to be regular, not decaffeinated.) Mix it up and go spray just before dark once or twice a week. Caffeine kills slugs and snails and, many other garden pest dislike it.

I use Coffee and Diatamous Earth (sp?)

 

[Maelstrom]

Another way to get rid of slugs is with coffee and a plant sprayer. Just 4 TBS of instant coffee (the cheapest you can get will do, just had to be regular, not decaffeinated.) Mix it up and go spray just before dark once or twice a week. Caffeine kills slugs and snails and, many other garden pest dislike it.

I use Coffee and Diatamous Earth (sp?)

Thank you Beverly ,a very nice tip, do you think you could give us more detail on your watering swales, and how you prepare and use acorn flour...what tree is best with that?

I have tested rye some it grows well in the shade on the worst soil, buckhweat as well both very low maitenence crops, my test for adding pear cactus slime as a glutin replacer worked real well and could be used to make low glutin grain flours more bread worthy. Broom corn was very productive grain wise but is a little tricky on the seed germination temps. in the north 50 degrees in the soil may be needed, and I couldn't figure out how to check the green grain cyanide thing.
I'm still looking for a good northern oil crop russsian olives have some potential.

EDDIT NOTE: I just put something on the Jelly bean planting thing in my first post, we can talk more about that later if someone wishes.

 

[Maelstrom]

I am very interested in aquaponics,a gravel based vegetable garden in combination with a small fishery with each part supporting the other.
http://theselfsufficientliving.com/12-indoor-backyard-diy-aquaponics-system-designs-plans/

My initial design plan will involve using 330 gallon food grade poly stackable tanks as the basis for construction that I have already acquired in combination with a circulating pump and plumbing. I hope to stock it with trout fingerlings and plan to grow herbs

View attachment 19937

Nitro , do you think adding a algae eating fish too, and mosquito larva eating fish as well may be needed or will the baby trout eat those things?

 

[Nitro]

Nitro , do you think adding a algae eating fish too, and mosquito larva eating fish as well may be needed or will the baby trout eat those things?

I think the constant circulation should slow algae formation,but algae eaters may help. The skeeters usually come from stagnant water,so once again,it isn't likely to happen in the system I am planning on building.
Most of what I have read about the fish part will include pellet food that they are already used to in the hatcheries.

 

[Beverly]

Thank you Beverly ,a very nice tip, do you think you could give us more detail on your watering swales, and how you prepare and use acorn flour...what tree is best with that?

I have tested rye some it grows well in the shade on the worst soil, buckhweat as well both very low maitenence crops, my test for adding pear cactus slime as a glutin replacer worked real well and could be used to make low glutin grain flours more bread worthy. Broom corn was very productive grain wise but is a little tricky on the seed germination temps. in the north 50 degrees in the soil may be needed, and I couldn't figure out how to check the green grain cyanide thing.
I'm still looking for a good northern oil crop russsian olives have some potential.

EDDIT NOTE: I just put something on the Jelly bean planting thing in my first post, we can talk more about that later if someone wishes.

Here is a basic explanation of how to build and use swales:

http://www.wikihow.com/Dig-Swales

Any oak tree will produce acorns, here we have a lot of white oak so, that's what I use. Pick up the acorns when they fall and, remove the caps, if they still have them. Then coarsely chop them in a food processor, or by hand. Tie the chopped acorns into a cheesecloth bag and boil them, changing the water every ten minutes through four water changes - that gets the bitter and toxic substances out of them. Spread them out to dry overnight, then you can use a food processor (or Ninja) to grind them to a coarse flour, or a mill for finer flour. Again, that needs to be spread to dry overnight before you seal it in bags or containers.

NOTE: You do not want green acorns, those still have far too many toxins in them so, don't pluck them off the trees, wait for them to fall.

It will not work for leavened bread but, it makes a good flat bread just mixed with a little fat (lard, butter or , shortening, whatever you have, salt and water. It does not have gluten and is low in carbohydrates but, high in protein. Being a nut, the bread will brown quickly and, has a toasted nutty taste. Some people can still taste a little bitterness in the breads but, it isn't so much that a sweet fruit spread or a little honey won't make it very good.

Rye and buckwheat are excellent low maintenance crops that do well in poor soil. it does take a fairly large area to get enough of either to really be useful, but if you have room for them, they are both well worth planting. Millet is also good for that and, you get more grain per plant from millet. Even the big, spiny, annoying milk thistles produce a prolific number of seeds that can be eaten as seeds or ground for flour. (the same seeds sold as finch and wild bird food.)

Dandelion greens are good for salads or as a steamed vegetable and, they are a near perfect rabbit food, so make use of them. If you don't want to eat them, get a few rabbits and feed them to the rabbits - rabbit meat is 100% white meat and, can be used exactly like chicken breast meat.

Rabbits also like a lot of other plants that would otherwise be weeds and, pigs eat nearly anything. That can turn weeds into food production and, you can rely on a lot of the native plants to feed your meat supply. my pigs eat Guadalupe cucumbers and kudzu (both wild, invasive, prolific plants here) and kitchen scraps. They eat for free, and, when I butcher them I get about 120 lbs of meat per pig - that's 240 lbs of FREE meat every year, off of scraps and weeds for me, if I barter for the two pigs, as I did this year. (cost me one rabbit and two chicken nesting boxes with 12 boxes each that I was no longer using.)

 

[Maelstrom]

[QUOTE="Beverly, http://www.wikihow.com/Dig-Swales Pick up the acorns when they fall [/QUOTE]

Thank you Beverly ,for the nice bit on swales and acorns I wish I had some nice oak trees in my area to try it out, maybe I will find some on a trip. The swales thing looks like a nice way to keep trees wet and happy, I think my church aid group ADRA and the UN were doing something a little bit similar in Ethiopia. They payed the locals to dig a sort of round Navaho water tray with one baby tree planted at the bottom of each one where the water would collect from the brief desert rains. It worked so well the weather is changing some from the new forrest.

I pasture my chickens with white clover, strawberry clover, and am testing black medic clover, (a grain producing clover), presently too, but if one doesn't have room for that, a big row of swisschard to toss to the chickens will make them very happy. Some chopped onions and garlic seems to help keep chickens from getting sick from certain molds and bacterias.

 

[Beverly]

Onions are actually mildly toxic to birds, a little won't hurt a chicken but, not the best for them. Garlic is good to feed any animal that you can convince to eat it, tops and bulbs both. Either part of the plant is a natural wormer so, it's good for animals to have some. (Larger animals can also be wormed with plug tobacco 1 plug for every 1000 pounds of animal given once every six months. - best for horses, cattle, goats, sheep, grazing animals since those eat it readily.)

Onion does have chemicals in it that are natural anti allergens and, like garlic, it is a blood cleanser as well so, it's good for us. I don't give much to animals because it can be mildly toxic to some of them, especially birds but, I do give it if I need it to solve a medical problem in the animal.

 

[Maelstrom]

Onions are actually mildly toxic to birds, a little won't hurt a chicken but, not the best for them. Garlic is good to feed any animal that you can convince to eat it, tops and bulbs both. Either part of the plant is a natural wormer so, it's good for animals to have some. (Larger animals can also be wormed with plug tobacco 1 plug for every 1000 pounds of animal given once every six months. - best for horses, cattle, goats, sheep, grazing animals since those eat it readily.)

Onion does have chemicals in it that are natural anti allergens and, like garlic, it is a blood cleanser as well so, it's good for us. I don't give much to animals because it can be mildly toxic to some of them, especially birds but, I do give it if I need it to solve a medical problem in the animal.

That is interesting Beverly ,I will have to do some more research on the onion thing, I fed my chickens fairly high levels of onion tops and Garlic for some time with no visible ill effects. I got thrush in my flock last year and the sulfide store medicine was messing up their egg factories, they would fill up with scrambled eggs or merged eggs and blowup like grapes, (litiraly). So I looked up anti fungal plants and garlic came up and I had a ton of it growing wild so I tried it it seemed to work, I got better results maybe when I still had onion tops to go with it, I also tried wild pepermint because I had a bunch not sure if it helped at all. Some spices have anti bacterial properties too much of them can be risky tho, but I didn't have much to lose, the thrush was picking off my birds one buy one.
I'm trying a sort of winter summer mix on my chickens this year, Blue eggers for summer, plymoth rocks for winter. They aren't the best layers but they both may eat less pellets so it may balance out and I've had too many problems with the more comercially bred chickens burning out early or dying of impacted eggs. I wanted to bring in some Hamburg everlayers and cross bread them with maybe the blues and rocks but my father shattered his leg tree trimming during ordering time, so they got lost in the chaos maybe next year.

 

[Maelstrom]

So on poly culture the mixing of plants for mutual benifit, I have been expermenting with clover and beans. I did wheat rows mixed with bean rows at various spacings to see how much nitrate benifit there was. There was evedence by increased height of the wheat that nitrates were coming in on the first year from the bean roots. I believe there is first year nitrate transfer on the clover as well.

I had fair results with beans mixed with corn size was down a little from chemical but there was a ear of corn on each stalk. Watering needed went down about 80% with beans shading the ground, and most of the weeds died out from shade.

I think planting beans around everything that isn't too short would reduce the need for chemical fertilize and reduce weeds and water needed.

I presently want to test green beans as dry beans because they are earlier, I like to get the earliest things possible as it means I get to eat from the garden sooner.

Totem tomatoes are the earliest on setting on a small plant 6" but are a little acidic, sub artics used to be the earliest but there has been a bad seed switch on them.

Yukon Gold potatoes are very early and very good, Walla walla onions are real sweet.

Scallion onions, chives, and garlic chives can be cut up a inch or so and will regrow like grass...a trick you can use in winter by potting them bringing them inside and using them all winter.

Lemon cucumbers aren't the earliest but I like them the most so we just start them earlier in the house and plant them out.