Feeling connected?

[DogwoodTree]

If it is any comfort to you as you wonder about and seek connection, remember that we are all in this together.

In some ways, this is true...we're all having a similar set of experiences. Someone said this to me a couple of weeks ago, that I'm not going through this alone...that lots of other people are struggling, and many are struggling with the same things that I am.

But that's like telling an island sitting isolated in the middle of the Pacific that it's not alone since there are thousands of other islands in the vast Pacific Ocean. Yes, that might be true. But each island is alone in its own experience, no matter how similar its experience is to that of others.

NTs, when they're struggling, can share their struggles with others who have gone through something similar, and they feel connected in the struggle. They feel some satisfaction and comfort from that connection. Suffering can draw them closer to each other (although, of course, sometimes that process goes wrong).

But I don't experience that sense of camaraderie. My thoughts are calmed sometimes when I come here and y'all understand what I'm talking about even if I don't explain it well. Sometimes I can even talk about struggles with PTSD recovery, and someone here will "get it." That's validating, and I'm grateful for it. But I don't feel "connected" in it.

I don't feel rejected here, and that's saying a lot compared to how I feel in most groups IRL that I've tried to be a part of. But there's still not a sense of emotional connection...of being known...of being loved for who I am. (And to be fair, a lot of that struggle, I think, has as much to do with my trauma background as with AS. I think I never learned how to receive love for being who I am.)

 

[Loomis]

I have a low need for social contact but in the last couple of years I have made a big effort to connect with people. It has become easier for me to socialize and I am able to do it better the more I practice. I have a few friends I enjoy being around. They recognize I am less social than the average person and I hear things like: "It's nice you have come out of your shell."

 

[ChurchTheArtist]

Do you ever feel "connected" with other people?

I watch other people interact with each other, and it seems so fulfilling for them...so satisfying. They really seem to enjoy it. But no matter what I do, or how I go about trying to connect with others, I don't feel what they seem to be feeling. I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel "connected."

I always thought everyone was faking it--that everyone was pretending to enjoy being with people, because that's how you're supposed to show that you care for someone. So I tried to fake it, too. And I do a pretty good job of faking it.

But based on what people are telling me now that I've discovered this AS component...they're not actually faking it. They actually do enjoy being with each other. They get some kind of emotional consummation through the interaction. I keep wanting this experience...I keep pursuing it...I keep needing it. But I never get it. I've tried to do all the right things. It just doesn't work for me.

Does this make sense to anyone else? I'm not sure if this is AS, or a deficit caused by my trauma background, or what.

It feels like I don't have love receptors. I can send it out, but I can't receive it. And I'm so lonely inside. I move around near people all day long, but it seems like they're all "out there" somewhere, and they never really see me...they don't really know me. I'm so tired of feeling alone all the time. I'm really, really tired.

It saddens me to hear these words because deep down I know you speak the truth. People who know my posts may be rolling their eyes, preparing for some long-winded speech steeped in philosophy and mechanical logic... but not this time.

Your loneliness is shared by many of us for nigh infinite different reasons but the pain is still the same. Part of being as different as we are is that one day we look up and realize that we may be fruits, slowly budding around other fruits but we bloom on a different tree than the other fruits, alone, looking up as the other tree grows and produces so much. We fall to the shadow of that tree and each season gets harder and harder to see the sun. It seems unfair; we could just as easily been a fruit on the tree that thrives but in the poor luck of something unseen, we struggle in the shadow of this reality.

But, do not lose hope! I can tell you from experience that there is a way for you to connect but by-God it takes a fight! You have to endure and even more so, you have to find the special joy inside of you that makes you shine all by yourself. If you allow the shadow to starve you of your light, you will succumb to the bitterness that befalls the majority of us and you cannot let that happen! The joy of connecting to others will come, I've learned how to make it work and have seen it myself but you mustn't let yourself fall into despair.

Though the details of how our kind can connect with their kind is something I'm not going to post here, it is attainable, learnable. Don't lose hope! This stranger who knows nothing about you or anybody on this forum can still say "I believe you can get there! All of you!"

 

[Mathalamus]

i used to need social contact in a big way, due to the general state of my life (it was less than good) and the fact that i had no understanding of the concept of social connection. or how to use it.

it wasn't until November 2015, that i learned that concept, and applied it. now, i rarely need any actual communication with people, and my standard of living shot right up.

but, since i already have that one connection, and a solid independent capability, my need to meet new people and communities as gone down to the floor.

 

[Mia]

But it's impossible to not-see, you know?

I do know how that is, and he gets upset because he's not that aware of his own physical or verbal responses. Read somewhere recently that people with those sorts of empathic skills, should use them to make others more aware of themselves. I've done this all along but I do sometimes make mistakes as my perceptions are colored by things I've experienced, and sometimes I'm wrong. Have been able to shut it down at times, maybe I should work on doing that more.

I think that's one reason why I prefer a male therapist

Think that in the future that would be better fit for me as well, I found her frightening at times.

But no one has yet told me the how of letting down my guard, at least, not in a way that I can actually carry out (despite faithfully trying).

The only time I don't read people is when I am completely involved/interested in something. Recall talking to someone who was a friend of a friend, who I didn't know all that well, normally I would have been on guard. I knew ahead of time that he was devoted to the friend, so there would be no teasing or innuendo.

So I felt safe and one of his interests was southern writers, he could actually discuss Styron and Williams and Pynchon and several others. That's one of my interests and I'd never met anyone who was as familiar with their writing as I am. We talked for five hours, well into the night. Unfortunately, he lives in Milan, so I don't see him very often. Wish that kind of focus, when I'm fully engaged could be turned on or off.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Read somewhere recently that people with those sorts of empathic skills, should use them to make others more aware of themselves. I've done this all along but I do sometimes make mistakes as my perceptions are colored by things I've experienced, and sometimes I'm wrong.

I like the way you said "make others more aware of themselves" rather than something like "help other people solve their problems." There's a lot of value in reflecting back peoples' emotions to themselves, for them to handle however they choose once they actually see them.

Do you struggle when other people reflect your emotions back to you?

I ask because it really bothers me when my therapists do that. At first, I thought it was just a cheap/easy therapy-technique, and I hate being "techniqued" by people. We've talked about it a lot, and now I understand better why they do it, but it still bothers me.

I think the crux of the problem is that my therapist will reflect back to me what he thinks I'm experiencing, but really he's only reflecting back the mask I'm projecting out. He's not seeing an accurate picture of my experiences because, despite years and years of trying to figure out how to express my feelings accurately, I can't do it. So then I feel even more misunderstood and invisible and insignificant and stupid.

So then my bad experiences of having other people reflect back to me results in my being hesitant to reflect other people's feelings to them, even though I see many of them so clearly.

 

[garnetflower13]

I think the crux of the problem is that my therapist will reflect back to me what he thinks I'm experiencing, but really he's only reflecting back the mask I'm projecting out. He's not seeing an accurate picture of my experiences because, despite years and years of trying to figure out how to express my feelings accurately, I can't do it. So then I feel even more misunderstood and invisible and insignificant and stupid.

I think I can relate to this. Once, I was sharing an incident with my therapist about my cat. I had opened my back door and a small lizard had been clinging to it and fell indoors. My cat was after it like a bolt of lightening, and I said that although I felt sorry for the lizard, I felt glad that my cat had something alive to stalk and chase, because she is an indoor cat. So my therapist turns this around to imply that I was the one who missed running and being active (since I have a chronic illness that limits me a lot) and I was irritated because I hadn't meant that at all! I genuinely felt that my cat would enjoy being outdoors and chasing live things instead the occasional game of pounce with a string. But she made it out to be about me. I felt very misunderstood.

 

[Crossbreed]

I felt connected to many people in my divorced mother's family. I felt connected [as in bromance] to a particular male friend growing up and to my wife until she became depressed (made worse by her anti-depressants).

I still feel connected to one of my sons and my severely autistic daughter.

 

[Mia]

Do you struggle when other people reflect your emotions back to you?

I do. They are rarely accurate, they see a basic facial expression. So if my face shows something, be it anger, happiness, that's what they perceive my state is. There are so many derivations of one facial expression and I show few that people might understand.

Most of my time is spent processing how to respond to whatever they are saying or asking. At times I have to actually turn away to decide what I think, without any other distractions.

Often I process these things later, and then respond after the fact. As I'm unable to respond in the moment. If conversations could simply have some sort of intermission, I would have time to process most things. It doesn't make me feel insignificant, it makes me feel more intelligent. After all, quick answers require little thought and are often superficial synopsis. When I consider something, I look at it from many perspectives and then narrow it down.

 

[Mia]

He's not seeing an accurate picture of my experiences because, despite years and years of trying to figure out how to express my feelings accurately, I can't do it.

Had noticed that early in therapy, more than ten years ago, I expressed emotion like a small child would. They were basic; I'm sad, hurt, angry. Over time they became more elaborate and less child-like, I matured a little emotionally inside the process. At times I reverted back, but only occasionally. Have you noticed anything like that?

 

[DogwoodTree]

I expressed emotion like a small child would. They were basic; I'm sad, hurt, angry. Over time they became more elaborate and less child-like, I matured a little emotionally inside the process. At times I reverted back, but only occasionally. Have you noticed anything like that?

Ick, yes. My thoughts about situations and issues are pretty well advanced--I think, in general, I make pretty good decisions about how to think about and handle tough situations. But my emotional processing is so immature.

Seems I've got "delayed emotional processing", so my feelings often don't surface at all during a conversation. They come up later when I'm alone, and then I have no support in handling them. If my feelings do surface during the conversation, it's very childlike...pouty, whiny, giddy...or just completely shut down because my emotions embarrass me so much.

 

[Crossbreed]

I have learned to suppress knee-jerk reactions, because more often than not, they are the product of miscommunication. When that isn't the case, it gives me time to analyze the affront objectively. It seems to help/minimize my hurt feelings if I can generate an appropriate solution.

 

[Mia]

They come up later when I'm alone, and then I have no support in handling them. If my feelings do surface during the conversation, it's very childlike...pouty, whiny, giddy...or just completely shut down because my emotions embarrass me so much.

I've mentioned this before at AC, that the memory of the child that I was, I hated. Thought of 'it' as weak, it was an 'it' in my memory. The more I considered 'it,' this thing, this wraith, the more I wanted to actually destroy it.

Eventually came the realization that I perceived myself as not being strong enough. Ascribing blame to a child, who had little knowledge or understanding of their situation. Who felt powerless throughout childhood.

Yet in time, I began to imagine a whole child, who was trusting, honest, sweet and kind. I integrated that whole child into my memory and became a parent to her. It was many years and great deal of work, it's not for everyone to perceive of parts of self in this way, it may even appear delusional to some. Although it has been beneficial and given me a great deal of peace and acceptance in doing so.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Eventually came the realization that I perceived myself as not being strong enough. Ascribing blame to a child, who had little knowledge or understanding of their situation. Who felt powerless throughout childhood.

I haven't yet been able to give myself permission to have been a child during those times. "I should've done things differently." "I should've been more capable." "I should've protected myself better." "I should've protected and managed my parents better."

I know these thoughts are stupid, but I can't shake them.

it's not for everyone to perceive of parts of self in this way, it may even appear delusional to some.

My therapist uses this approach called Internal Family Systems (IFS). He talks about "parts" of the self all the time. I have a really hard time visualizing my self as this multiplicity of parts, although on an intellectual level, I get what he's trying to do. My mother was dx'ed with multiple personality disorder back in the 90s, so I think I'm especially sensitive and resistant to moving in that direction myself. Trying, though, because he says this isn't at all the same thing as the dissociation of MPD.

How did you start to visualize multiple parts beyond whichever part you're experiencing in a given moment? How were you able to start talking objectively about that internal experience? I tend to shut down as soon as he asks me to identify which "part" has voiced a thought or emotion.

 

[Friend4any1]

Do you ever feel "connected" with other people?

I watch other people interact with each other, and it seems so fulfilling for them...so satisfying. They really seem to enjoy it. But no matter what I do, or how I go about trying to connect with others, I don't feel what they seem to be feeling. I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel "connected."

I always thought everyone was faking it--that everyone was pretending to enjoy being with people, because that's how you're supposed to show that you care for someone. So I tried to fake it, too. And I do a pretty good job of faking it.

But based on what people are telling me now that I've discovered this AS component...they're not actually faking it. They actually do enjoy being with each other. They get some kind of emotional consummation through the interaction. I keep wanting this experience...I keep pursuing it...I keep needing it. But I never get it. I've tried to do all the right things. It just doesn't work for me.

Does this make sense to anyone else? I'm not sure if this is AS, or a deficit caused by my trauma background, or what.

It feels like I don't have love receptors. I can send it out, but I can't receive it. And I'm so lonely inside. I move around near people all day long, but it seems like they're all "out there" somewhere, and they never really see me...they don't really know me. I'm so tired of feeling alone all the time. I'm really, really tired.

AS. Definitely AS.

My family is full of extroverts; I’m the only introvert. Most of the time, parties mean food, that’s the only joy in a party I could ever achieve. Of course, now, what with my choice to be vegan, I’m even more alone, in spite of what nice people I’m with.

Big numbers of people, most of my life, seemed best when it comes to theaters; they’ve come to see me, or someone else on stage, we’ve went to the movies, whatever, such gatherings clicked better for me.

Then, I got into this social club full of fellow vegans and when it comes to the realities we all understand, that’s when that joy comes to me.

I guess you need to review your likes and dislikes, THEN figure out what gatherings go best together with you. Simple as that.

 

[Mia]

Dogwood Tree wrote:
'How did you start to visualize multiple parts beyond whichever part you're experiencing in a given moment? How were you able to start talking objectively about that internal experience? I tend to shut down as soon as he asks me to identify which "part" has voiced a thought or emotion.'​

Initially I began to identify and separate thoughts, positive and negative. Perspectives related to or reiterated to myself for most of my life. Inner critics, internalized voices from the past. Noticed that none of the inner critics appeared to be my own valid voice. They sounded specifically like the voices of others as I listened, taunts or rebukes that had been yelled or quietly inferred, but nonetheless there, as I became aware of their existence.

Some were childhood tormentors and bullies, others were teachers, nuns, authority figures, one was a parent, another was a sibling and one the voice of a child. I began to differentiate between them, by the phrases they used. For example the voice that told me I was a 'bad' child was a parent (it sounded like her with the same cadence and intonation) I had subconsciously internalized it and carried it around with me.
It colored each thing I accomplished, when I made the dean's list, the her thought said that I could have somehow done better. When I was caught in the rain, everyone ran for cover and a childlike thought came; it's fun, it's pretty, instead of denying the thought as immature I stayed in the rain and verified that the child voice/thought was correct.

I woke up late, and thought of myself as 'bad' for being lazy, I was forty-five at the time. I held onto that thought as it seemed to have directed my life, it lay just below the surface, and thought, when have I ever been bad? I'd spent my life doing good things, and very little else. I am a good daughter, sister, wife, employee. Logically it made no real sense that I could perceive of myself in such a way.

Each time one of these thoughts occurred; lazy, dumb, pathetic, bad. I would become depressed, dusted with self-pity. Didn't want to hear these things anymore, and the best way to avoid thinking in that way was to do nothing. That's when I began therapy. I had been motivated by something, when what was behind the motivation fell away, exposed for it's pure falsity, I began to rethink and question everything.

This all began when my therapist said that not everything we tell ourselves is true. I countered every thought I had about myself to understand if it held value. If I thought of myself as lazy that day, I recounted a list of things to prove that it was untrue. In listening to my thoughts, I realized that some of the inner critics were illogical, even incorrect in many of their responses, I countered with real evidential proof, not hearsay. Eventually, the harshest inner critic softened its stance, it began to help rather than hinder me, something its actually supposed to do.

Its a work in progress so far, it took a great deal to question everything, it was tiring and it was painful because it meant I had to revisit situations, occurrences that I had walled away. Yet in the clarity I experienced what could be called an epiphany, and with that realization came an understanding of myself and the motivation of others. The inner critics are somewhat subdued, logicked away and the inner thoughts have become helpful and not so self-destructive.

 

[DogwoodTree]

Noticed that none of the inner critics appeared to be my own valid voice. They sounded specifically like the voices of others

This is an interesting insight. I need to think about this...

logicked away

Yes, this is usually the way I work through problems. If I can out-logic them, I can get free of them. But that's a big "If".

Thanks for writing all of that. I need to think on this a while, and I'll come back to it.

 

[sisselcakes]

Do you ever feel "connected" with other people?

I watch other people interact with each other, and it seems so fulfilling for them...so satisfying. They really seem to enjoy it. But no matter what I do, or how I go about trying to connect with others, I don't feel what they seem to be feeling. I don't feel fulfilled. I don't feel "connected."

I always thought everyone was faking it--that everyone was pretending to enjoy being with people, because that's how you're supposed to show that you care for someone. So I tried to fake it, too. And I do a pretty good job of faking it.

But based on what people are telling me now that I've discovered this AS component...they're not actually faking it. They actually do enjoy being with each other. They get some kind of emotional consummation through the interaction. I keep wanting this experience...I keep pursuing it...I keep needing it. But I never get it. I've tried to do all the right things. It just doesn't work for me.

Does this make sense to anyone else? I'm not sure if this is AS, or a deficit caused by my trauma background, or what.

It feels like I don't have love receptors. I can send it out, but I can't receive it. And I'm so lonely inside. I move around near people all day long, but it seems like they're all "out there" somewhere, and they never really see me...they don't really know me. I'm so tired of feeling alone all the time. I'm really, really tired.

Hey Dogwood Tree.

Thank you for your honesty and I'm sorry you are suffering. I wanted to better understand what you mean about feeling lonely and love receptors. First, have you seen someone about being assessed for depression? Three things triggered my thought you could have untreated depression - loneliness, fatigue, and detachment. Perhaps some of that could be due to AS. Then I wonder, do you have love receptors for things other than people? Like nature, a deity, or animals?

 

[sisselcakes]

I am the same. And most of the time I don't care to connect when a person is being shallow, vicious, or just wanting to gossip. Because of health limitations I am very choosy who I spend my "spoons" on!

And I agree about your significant other being able to hurt you if he chooses to. About four years ago, I got into an argument with my husband where he said something very hurtful because he was close enough to me to be able to do that. And I still get twinges of pain when I remember it, even though he apologized profusely.

Yes, words truly can do damage. In my current relationship, my bf said a few things that were very hurtful; and even though he has apologized sincerely, my warm feelings for him have not returned 100%. Don't know if they will.

 

[sisselcakes]

I find this is one of the most difficult aspects of AS to explain to people. They think aspies lack empathy, but really, I'm hyper-sensitive to people's feelings (hyper-empathy) and body language (some of it anyway...especially any behavior that could pose a threat). I think I learned this out of necessity because of the family environment I grew up in. I have a really hard time identifying my own emotions because everyone else's emotions are so overwhelming.

Do you get swamped emotionally when you read about other people's tragedies or suffering? That story about the family who lost their little boy in the alligator attack...I can hardly even type the words because I feel so badly for all of them.

I wonder if part of my problem in feeling so lonely is that I can't figure out how to be in touch with my inner world/emotions at the same time I'm aware of and interactive with the outer world and other people. I'm either cut off from my inner world and mired in managing outer world stimuli, or I'm cut off from the outer world and holed up inside.