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Feeling connected?

The empathy issue is hard for those of us non-Aspies to understand when learning about our loved ones and acquaintances with ASD. I think I've figured out why it's hard for us to understand. I wish they didn't use the word empathy at all when describing this ASD trait because it makes it seem as though a person has no compassion or is cold. I think there is a difference between COGNITIVE empathy and EMOTIONAL empathy. I believe with AS there is difficulty with logically, intellectually comprehending that another person thinks differently from you. My bf is very rigid in his perception of how things are. He tends to be black and white. He has a hard time imagining the way someone from another culture, for example, would perceive the world. However, there is clearly a difference with emotional empathy because I hear time and time again that Aspies can feel burdened by compassion, that it can be too much. My boyfriend does feel badly for people when they suffer. Perhaps it would be easier to explain it that way, if this strikes you as true in your case.
 
I like the way you said "make others more aware of themselves" rather than something like "help other people solve their problems." There's a lot of value in reflecting back peoples' emotions to themselves, for them to handle however they choose once they actually see them.

Do you struggle when other people reflect your emotions back to you?

I ask because it really bothers me when my therapists do that. At first, I thought it was just a cheap/easy therapy-technique, and I hate being "techniqued" by people. We've talked about it a lot, and now I understand better why they do it, but it still bothers me.

I think the crux of the problem is that my therapist will reflect back to me what he thinks I'm experiencing, but really he's only reflecting back the mask I'm projecting out. He's not seeing an accurate picture of my experiences because, despite years and years of trying to figure out how to express my feelings accurately, I can't do it. So then I feel even more misunderstood and invisible and insignificant and stupid.

So then my bad experiences of having other people reflect back to me results in my being hesitant to reflect other people's feelings to them, even though I see many of them so clearly.
I think I can relate to this. Once, I was sharing an incident with my therapist about my cat. I had opened my back door and a small lizard had been clinging to it and fell indoors. My cat was after it like a bolt of lightening, and I said that although I felt sorry for the lizard, I felt glad that my cat had something alive to stalk and chase, because she is an indoor cat. So my therapist turns this around to imply that I was the one who missed running and being active (since I have a chronic illness that limits me a lot) and I was irritated because I hadn't meant that at all! I genuinely felt that my cat would enjoy being outdoors and chasing live things instead the occasional game of pounce with a string. But she made it out to be about me. I felt very misunderstood.:(
Your therapist was trying to dig too deep, when the reality was right there on the surface. She didn't need to go all symbolic on you. She put her own interpretation on your reaction. I could see where that would happen a lot with a therapist who isn't a good match.
 
This is one of those threads that I keep coming back to. I want to post, but am not really sure how to articulate my thoughts. Judge said it well, "Always alone. Whether surrounded by others or none at all." Throughout my entire life I have never seemed to connect or "fit in." I've had friends and still have a couple, but I cannot seem to "connect" on that plain that others seem capable of doing.

I do not disagree that some of my difficulties is me, as I've had "NT friends" (I use the term friends loosely here) complain about my aloofness. No, I don't like having last minute plans dropped on me. You can't call my house and say, "We'll be by to pick you up in five minutes to . . ." No, I do not handle crowded, noisy, social situations well. If such things is a prerequisite to "connecting," then I will never connect.

Frankly, I don't know what that element is that causes people to "connect." I think there's a great gulf between "connecting" and close friendships, which is something I cannot seem to separate. I cannot causally "connect" with people; casual acquaintances are lost on me. If I "connect" with someone then I consider them to be a close friend.
As someone who does easily connect with others (NT, extrovert, etc.), this subject has me very curious and I'm pondering what the "missing link", for lack of a better term, is here. I'm imagining myself in a social situation where I can connect superficially, which is still enjoyable for me. It has no great meaning but the action is pleasurable. I suppose it gets my endorphins moving! It's understandable that someone on the spectrum would find this activity dreadful.

But then I consider the few times in my life where I have met people with whom I immediately clicked. It's happened only a few times. It was almost like a spiritual experience, not to overstate it. It was the feeling as though I had known the person for a long time. When I think about how quickly I bonded with one of these people, I realize it was because of an intense sense of alikeness. I'm a social worker. These were always "helpers" who also had anxiety/depression issues and were hypersensitive types. I didn't have to explain myself. It was like they "got" me right away.

Given this experience, I believe feeling connected to someone is simply feeling TRULY understood and accepted. So, I think for those people that have never felt that TRUE connection; it's for the absence of people who understand and accept him/her. This makes me feel hopeful for all people because, while for some it will be harder to cross paths with a potential connection due to a narrower pool of people who will understand them (likely a fellow Aspie), it's entirely possible. What it means in the end is you can't give up. You have to keep putting yourself out there until you find one or a few people who will get you. For some reason, feeling understood, is very cathartic and freeing. Don't give up!

For those who are aware they are missing something when they see others connect, I definitely think that's a sign of the ability to connect with the right person/people. One can't see something in others if he/she can't relate to it. You wouldn't notice its absence in yourself if it weren't possible to have. At least, that's my humble opinion. Feel free to disagree if I seem to be off my rocker. :confused:
 
Interacting with other humans is rather essential to exist as an independent adult and while I can perform that quite well, doing so increases my anxiety level as I'm continuously monitoring how my script is being received. Connecting with other humans is for me is something quite different and I have probably in my life genuinely connected with only a few people (my wife being one of them). What enables finding a 'connection' to another human I don't know.

I find it impossible to connect with people whose conversations are about content like "which celebrity is having which other celebrity's baby" or "which member of a group has done whatever to whomever".
 
Interacting with other humans is rather essential to exist as an independent adult and while I can perform that quite well, doing so increases my anxiety level as I'm continuously monitoring how my script is being received. Connecting with other humans is for me is something quite different and I have probably in my life genuinely connected with only a few people (my wife being one of them). What enables finding a 'connection' to another human I don't know.

I find it impossible to connect with people whose conversations are about content like "which celebrity is having which other celebrity's baby" or "which member of a group has done whatever to whomever".
The process of interacting (i.e., trying to read people's reaction to your script) sounds exhausting!
 
The process of interacting (i.e., trying to read people's reaction to your script) sounds exhausting!
Yep - it used to be exhausting (made many social faux-pas) and as an older aspie I still find it tiring, but now know when to "draw the curtains" on the social interaction and retreat to safety.
 
Yep, that's how I do it. Also, the older I get, the less I'm questioned about my behavior. They view me as either being a curmudgeon or getting senile. I don't care as long as I don't have to deal with social protocols.:rolleyes:
OMG. This is too funny. My bf is almost 50 and before I realized he probably has undiagnosed ASD, I endearingly referred to him as a curmudgeon. I even bought this hilarious book for him called Curmudgeonism: A Surly Man's Guide to Midlife.
 
First, have you seen someone about being assessed for depression? Three things triggered my thought you could have untreated depression - loneliness, fatigue, and detachment. Perhaps some of that could be due to AS.

I was first dx'd with depression about 25 years ago. It's come and gone off and on since then, especially when life events triggered a relapse. And yes, I hit a breakdown about 2 1/2 years ago and entered another, really bad relapse. I only started finding some relief from this one when I started acupuncture a few weeks ago. Antidepressants back in college didn't help, so I had to find another recourse. The acupuncture has helped tremendously with the depression. It's not completely gone, but at least I have energy now to do the things I'm supposed to be doing.

However, I don't think all of this is due to depression. Even between relapses, when I've been fairly happy, I never felt connected to people. I always thought it was because 1) most expressions of connection between people were faked anyway, and 2) the rare experiences of real connection only happened when a person got everything "right" all at the same time. I kept thinking that if I kept trying, I would eventually "hit the jackpot" so to speak and feel this sense of connection at least occasionally.

Then I wonder, do you have love receptors for things other than people? Like nature, a deity, or animals?

No, not really. I never understood what people meant when they said their pet "loved them unconditionally." The animal is endearing itself to someone who can give it what it wants, and that's just basic behaviorism, not love. (I understand that many pet owners see this differently, and I don't intend to insult or offend anyone...this is just my own experience.)

I'm a Christian, and have pursued a deeper relationship with God since I was in 4th grade. For many, many years now, if you asked me what I want most, it's to be in an intimate relationship with God, and this is still one of my deepest desires. There are times I believe I receive guidance from God...intuitions. But not feelings. I don't feel God's love for me. I see clues of it, just like I can see clues that my husband loves me. But I don't feel it.

And nature was always just a place to hide out, to let down my guard and not have to read people or figure out what they want from me.

Even things like art and music...I'm a musician myself, and yet, I don't feel the emotions of it. I appreciate the skill involved, but not the emotions expressed in the music. However, sometimes the lyrics--when sung--will seep deeper in. When I find a song that resonates like that, I have to listen to it over and over and over, dozens and dozens of times. The music itself doesn't convey emotion, though--it's just a carrier for the words that somehow allows the words to pass through this nearly impenetrable outer layer into where my own emotions reside.
 
I have never in my life had that "connection" with anyone. Oh how I long for that. My boyfriend says he loves me, but he won't take the time to learn Aspergers and that's important to me. I take the time to watch football and hockey with him and I feel like he should give me the same in return. I like antique shops, swap meets, flea markets, Swimming, but I never get to do any of them because he's not interested in those things. I don't like fishing or camping like he does, but I'm willing to accompany him in these activities because I love him and I make effort in our relationship. Relationships are not 50-50; they're 100-100 in that each one should put in 100% of themselves into that relationship. Correction to previous statement.....he did take me to water park Saturday and I truly enjoyed it except for being teased about my fear of climbing tall staircases (due to falling down a flight in childhood). I held on to the rail with both hands while we were waiting in line to slide and some dude behind me was making fun of me. Anyway, if anyone really CONNECTS to someone, KEEP them because you really don't know what you've got til it's GONE.
I think it is hard to be this way. Does he read Aspergers forum? He may understand a lot of what we feel / need. Best wishes
 
No, I don't feel connected to people. I don't feel what they are feeling, I don't experience what they are experiencing when they are interacting with each other. I don't feel bonded to people when I interact with them. I always felt that everything was going on from behind a glass screen and that I was not a part of it. I used to call it 'watching TV' until at some point I realised that when people watch TV they are getting all sorts of social cues and messages that I don't get, so even my experience of watching TV is different to that of other people's.
 
I don't feel bonded to people when I interact with them.

Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.

Interactions between people seem to create this kind of bond between them. It doesn't feel like that to me at all.

I can do the work to try to say all the right things and use the right tone of voice and right body language, but it doesn't result in a feeling of having bonded with the person...that we're any closer than what we were before the interaction.
 
I was first dx'd with depression about 25 years ago. It's come and gone off and on since then, especially when life events triggered a relapse. And yes, I hit a breakdown about 2 1/2 years ago and entered another, really bad relapse. I only started finding some relief from this one when I started acupuncture a few weeks ago. Antidepressants back in college didn't help, so I had to find another recourse. The acupuncture has helped tremendously with the depression. It's not completely gone, but at least I have energy now to do the things I'm supposed to be doing.

However, I don't think all of this is due to depression. Even between relapses, when I've been fairly happy, I never felt connected to people. I always thought it was because 1) most expressions of connection between people were faked anyway, and 2) the rare experiences of real connection only happened when a person got everything "right" all at the same time. I kept thinking that if I kept trying, I would eventually "hit the jackpot" so to speak and feel this sense of connection at least occasionally.



No, not really. I never understood what people meant when they said their pet "loved them unconditionally." The animal is endearing itself to someone who can give it what it wants, and that's just basic behaviorism, not love. (I understand that many pet owners see this differently, and I don't intend to insult or offend anyone...this is just my own experience.)

I'm a Christian, and have pursued a deeper relationship with God since I was in 4th grade. For many, many years now, if you asked me what I want most, it's to be in an intimate relationship with God, and this is still one of my deepest desires. There are times I believe I receive guidance from God...intuitions. But not feelings. I don't feel God's love for me. I see clues of it, just like I can see clues that my husband loves me. But I don't feel it.

And nature was always just a place to hide out, to let down my guard and not have to read people or figure out what they want from me.

Even things like art and music...I'm a musician myself, and yet, I don't feel the emotions of it. I appreciate the skill involved, but not the emotions expressed in the music. However, sometimes the lyrics--when sung--will seep deeper in. When I find a song that resonates like that, I have to listen to it over and over and over, dozens and dozens of times. The music itself doesn't convey emotion, though--it's just a carrier for the words that somehow allows the words to pass through this nearly impenetrable outer layer into where my own emotions reside.



I am so glad that you have found acupuncture to be helpful with the depression. I have suffered from depression for years with many medication changes which only help for a short period of time. I had never heard of acupuncture for depression. Maybe I'll look into it in the future.

I think you wondered if your inability to connect with others was related to trauma. I asked about the depression because that can certainly affect your ability to/interest in connecting with people. Also, trauma can leave people feeling numb and frightened. It's understandable that people who have suffered trauma would tend to avoid getting close to people. It sounds like those experiences could contribute to your feeling detached, however it sounds like a lot of members on here who are on the spectrum can relate too.

You are quite good at explaining and describing things in writing. When reading your narrative, I can imagine how it would be to experience interactions with others (people, animals, God) from your vantage point. I know you were being totally serious but I got a chuckle out of your description of how people feel about their animals. I found it humorous because I kind of understand how people love their animals (I'm not a huge animal person) and that pets are "part of the family", yet what you say is true! We humans put characteristics on the animals that are just our creations.

It sounds like that feeling of connection is something that has eluded you so far. You talk about enjoying music, and seeing signs of love, having intuitions, etc. You described these as being experiences you have that are outside of feelings and emotions. Have you ever had these types of feelings? If not, can you imagine what it's like to have them? It sounds like such a frustrating place to be, but maybe that's because I DO know what it's like. Not sure what your past experience is.
 
Have you ever had these types of feelings?

Every now and then, in an unexpected and brief encounter, a feeling of being seen and heard and cared for on an emotional level has snuck through. It's unpredictable and super quick (like...an interaction that lasts a second or two), and I've been unable to orchestrate these experiences. They're also not "pleasant." It usually creates a sense of chaos and confusion because I don't really know how to respond, and then this awkwardness is followed by severe shame.

Basically, I don't associate other people's caring movements toward me with positive emotions of my own, and I've not been able to change that yet. Working on it, but it's kinda like trying to learn a new language when you're deaf and blind.

can you imagine what it's like to have them?

I do have fantasies about having these kinds of experiences in ways that are healing and positive. But they're not real, and I don't think they're very realistic, either. I think somehow my expectation of what this should look and feel like doesn't jive with reality. It's not from lack of effort to understand and generate appropriate expectations...I think I just haven't figured out what the rest of you are feeling, and so I don't even know what to look for, really.
 
Dogwood Tree wrote:
'How did you start to visualize multiple parts beyond whichever part you're experiencing in a given moment? How were you able to start talking objectively about that internal experience? I tend to shut down as soon as he asks me to identify which "part" has voiced a thought or emotion.'

Initially I began to identify and separate thoughts, positive and negative. Perspectives related to or reiterated to myself for most of my life. Inner critics, internalized voices from the past. Noticed that none of the inner critics appeared to be my own valid voice. They sounded specifically like the voices of others as I listened, taunts or rebukes that had been yelled or quietly inferred, but nonetheless there, as I became aware of their existence.

Some were childhood tormentors and bullies, others were teachers, nuns, authority figures, one was a parent, another was a sibling and one the voice of a child. I began to differentiate between them, by the phrases they used. For example the voice that told me I was a 'bad' child was a parent (it sounded like her with the same cadence and intonation) I had subconsciously internalized it and carried it around with me.
It colored each thing I accomplished, when I made the dean's list, the her thought said that I could have somehow done better. When I was caught in the rain, everyone ran for cover and a childlike thought came; it's fun, it's pretty, instead of denying the thought as immature I stayed in the rain and verified that the child voice/thought was correct.

I woke up late, and thought of myself as 'bad' for being lazy, I was forty-five at the time. I held onto that thought as it seemed to have directed my life, it lay just below the surface, and thought, when have I ever been bad? I'd spent my life doing good things, and very little else. I am a good daughter, sister, wife, employee. Logically it made no real sense that I could perceive of myself in such a way.

Each time one of these thoughts occurred; lazy, dumb, pathetic, bad. I would become depressed, dusted with self-pity. Didn't want to hear these things anymore, and the best way to avoid thinking in that way was to do nothing. That's when I began therapy. I had been motivated by something, when what was behind the motivation fell away, exposed for it's pure falsity, I began to rethink and question everything.

This all began when my therapist said that not everything we tell ourselves is true. I countered every thought I had about myself to understand if it held value. If I thought of myself as lazy that day, I recounted a list of things to prove that it was untrue. In listening to my thoughts, I realized that some of the inner critics were illogical, even incorrect in many of their responses, I countered with real evidential proof, not hearsay. Eventually, the harshest inner critic softened its stance, it began to help rather than hinder me, something its actually supposed to do.

Its a work in progress so far, it took a great deal to question everything, it was tiring and it was painful because it meant I had to revisit situations, occurrences that I had walled away. Yet in the clarity I experienced what could be called an epiphany, and with that realization came an understanding of myself and the motivation of others. The inner critics are somewhat subdued, logicked away and the inner thoughts have become helpful and not so self-destructive.



This interesting for me too. Thanks:)
 
They're also not "pleasant." It usually creates a sense of chaos and confusion because I don't really know how to respond, and then this awkwardness is followed by severe shame.

Basically, I don't associate other people's caring movements toward me with positive emotions of my own, and I've not been able to change that yet. Working on it, but it's kinda like trying to learn a new language when you're deaf and blind.

Had a small heart palpitation when I read this D.T. My response under these circumstances is to be extremely formal and dismissive. Continuously wondering what they want from me. Have little hope that this will ever change, my basic response may be an Aspie trait, coupled with the desire not to be tricked or manipulated. If you have discovered any ideas/solutions on this trait and how to alter this perspective, I'd really like to hear about it.
 
My response under these circumstances is to be extremely formal and dismissive. Continuously wondering what they want from me. Have little hope that this will ever change, my basic response may be an Aspie trait, coupled with the desire not to be tricked or manipulated.

Yes, exactly. What do they want from me? Or at least...that's definitely part of it.

You know, as I ponder this, I suspect this is more complicated than it appears at first. Yes, there were plenty of people in my family background who selfishly took advantage of me, and there were some bullies (somehow I managed to stay under the radar at school most of the time, though). But I think there's another layer.

For example, here in the U.S. South, when someone gives a baby gift, they expect a thank you card. I always hated writing thank you cards--not because I didn't want to express my gratitude, but because I didn't know quite what to say in a way that sounded sociable and friendly without being overly formal. Plus my handwriting sucks.

When someone offers a hug, they expect me to like it. But what if I don't? Then I either have to pretend to like what they're forcing on me, or I have to risk hurting their feelings by telling them I don't want their hug. Either way, there's harm occurring.

When someone wants to chit chat with me, I either have to rely on my chit-chat scripts (which only works the first time or two with a person), or I have to improvise (which is extremely exhausting), or I have to get out of it (which is embarrassing and rude).

In all of these examples, the person is offering something they think I'll like...something that, from their perspective, is supposed to draw us closer. But that's not the way I experience it. So, even when a healthy person offers an expression of friendship, I experience that interaction as chaotic and uncomfortable and demanding. Even though they're not abusive in any way, it still comes back to the question, "What do they want from me?"

If you have discovered any ideas/solutions on this trait and how to alter this perspective, I'd really like to hear about it.

Not really...not yet. I'm trying to understand the dynamics of what's happening and how these events result in the feelings that I have.

So then...what is it that would feel like genuine caring for me? And that's why I started this thread...to see what works for some of you, to maybe get some ideas.

Here are a couple of things I've noticed that, when other people do them, I feel safer with that person, even though I wouldn't really call it "connection" yet:

consistency
unoffendability
mutual respect...treating me as an equal (not as a dimwit, and not as a freak-genius)
curiosity...willingness to explore complex ideas
honesty...about their experience of me, about their own inner world, etc
 

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