Faking NT versus Learning and Adapting

[Nervous Rex]

I've read a lot of comments about Aspies "faking being NT". Where would you draw the line between faking being NT and learning and adapting?

For example, I have a lot of odd behaviors (e.g. always having something to fiddle with, compulsively counting and recounting things) that I (try to) hide because I don't want to look "weird". That's probably faking being NT.

Over 20 years ago, I learned that making eye contact when talking to someone was "good communication", so I practiced, observed others, and now make eye contact when I talk to people (though I'm still not sure exactly what eye contact is supposed to communicate, besides "I'm aiming my words at you"). I call that learning and adapting.

Everyone, NT or ND, has to adapt to some things in this world. So, what's the line between faking and adapting? If I am functional enough to adapt to something, shouldn't I try? Where would you draw the line?

 

[Judge]

I've read a lot of comments about Aspies "faking being NT". Where would you draw the line between faking being NT and learning and adapting?

Excellent question! Where do I draw that line?

Every time I do it and that by the time I get home, I am mentally and physically exhausted. Weird to think how many years I was always puzzled at how socialization just took all my energy. Usually ending with a terrible tension headache, even when I thought I might actually be enjoying myself at times.

Little left to think I could actually "adapt" when it effects me so profoundly.

I can make that eye-to-eye contact as well. However it doesn't come easily to me and still weirds me out even as I do it in real-time.

 

[Gritches]

I consider "faking NT" as a kindness to the NTs around me, so they aren't made uncomfortable by me being myself. Things like my choice of words and eye contact feel "fake" because it takes effort and doesn't feel natural.

I'd consider adapting to be anything I've learned to do that has become natural, like keeping good posture, how I walk, how I hold myself, facial expressions that match my emotions, my cadence, stuff like that. Those don't take extra effort or consideration, but they're something that was once unnatural that has become natural and feels natural, by whatever mechanism.

It's a tough question, but that's where I'd draw the line.

 

[Fitzo]

I think faking is if you are consciously doing something in order to fit in with the crowd. Whereas learning and adapting no longer takes any conscious effort.
I do understand why eye contact is important to people. They say the eyes are the 'windows to the soul', so people assume you are either hiding something or lying if you don't make eye contact.

 

[Nervous Rex]

Every time I do it and that by the time I get home, I am mentally and physically exhausted. Little left to think I could actually "adapt" when it effects me so profoundly.

That makes a lot of sense. If it's sustainable, you're adapting. If it's not sustainable, you're not adapting.

I can make that eye-to-eye contact as well. However it doesn't come easily to me and still weirds me out even as I do it in real-time.

I still wonder how long I'm supposed to wait before looking away so it doesn't doesn't get awkward. Staring too long, then yelling "I win!" when the other person breaks eye contact doesn't quite seem appropriate.

 

[Judge]

I still wonder how long I'm supposed to wait before looking away so it doesn't doesn't get awkward. Staring too long, then yelling "I win!" when the other person breaks eye contact doesn't quite seem appropriate.

Another good question. Sounds perhaps like another unwritten NT rule.

I do it briefly, looking slightly to another direction at times. I figure as long as I keep coming back they won't get suspicious. I just know I was told at an early age that I must look people in the eye or risk appearing dishonest. Oddly enough it's not something I've ever discussed over the years until coming to this forum.

 

[Beguiling Orbit]

I agree with @Judge, @Gritches and @Fitzo (new law firm?) in that "NT faking" is an unnatural, not-yet-2nd-nature behavior that expends energy inefficiently. "Adapting" is learned, 2nd-nature behavior that still expends a lot of energy so that we can mimic NTs but does so more efficiently.

 

[Judge]

I agree with @Judge, @Gritches and @Fitzo (new law firm?)

Nope. I still work with Dewey, Cheatham and Howe.

 

[Streetwise]

I've read a lot of comments about Aspies "faking being NT". Where would you draw the line between faking being NT and learning and adapting?

For example, I have a lot of odd behaviors (e.g. always having something to fiddle with, compulsively counting and recounting things) that I (try to) hide because I don't want to look "weird". That's probably faking being NT.

Over 20 years ago, I learned that making eye contact when talking to someone was "good communication", so I practiced, observed others, and now make eye contact when I talk to people (though I'm still not sure exactly what eye contact is supposed to communicate, besides "I'm aiming my words at you"). I call that learning and adapting.

Everyone, NT or ND, has to adapt to some things in this world. So, what's the line between faking and adapting? If I am functional enough to adapt to something, shouldn't I try? Where would you draw the line?

If you would harm yourself

 

[OkRad]

THis is an EXCELLENT paradox and you know what Kierk said about them ("A thinker without a paradox is like a lover without passion......")

So yay, I like this. I think it is certainly herd mentality. We have to fit in so in some ways, it is adapting. On the other hand, we don't quite get it, so it's fake at times. Then it all drops off. I am at that stage. The fake is flying off at a rapid rate and I am weirder every day............only I don't really care.

 

[Chance]

I'm a lot like Gritches... But I dont consider it "faking it," so much... Adapting yes to an extent. I learned how to manage myself to try not make myself look like an idiot, and to try not make others uncomfortable. Sure there are lots of things I cant do well at all. I cant look people in the eye without getting this creepy feeling inside. I cant stay in a loud crowded place for very long. I dont say much to anyone especially if I dont know them.

I will do it, but I know I have limited energy, and limited time before I might shut down or get back to my wierd self. So as I feel things draining away... I'm looking for the simplest way out. When I already know I'm in a situation... I have the way out planned first thing, or try really hard too.

Its sort of a sad way to have to exist, but its not like I have a choice mostly.
So I use my energy as my guide point more than faking or learned... I guess?

 

[FreeDiver]

Is adapting even possible or an option for that matter? After all, Why are we here in the first place? Isn't adapting the very thing that NT's do in the first place?

 

[WereBear]

I have come to think that a lot of that mindless chatter I found so incredibly boring as a schoolchild is actually NT Training.

Through endless repetition and feedback the NT child learns all the nuances of social behavior. It is more important than anything else; how much of it is "natural" and how much of it is relentless social pressure? We don't know.

They are amenable to learning because they find the social benefits outweigh the nature of the interactions. And most of them -- to be brutally honest -- are in cultures where fitting in and rounding off any edges makes you "well rounded." The societies most of us grew up in don't want anyone to stand out, or be particularly smart, or have any of those messy talents, or even be assertive about their opinions.

They ARE the Borg.

I somehow learned social responses, but like @Judge I had no idea until recently that I was thinking this out to do so, while many around me were just "reflexing".

 

[Tom]

I think it depends on why you do it, and for an Aspie that means basically 100% of the time its adaptation. An aspie isn't 'faking' when they try to fit in, make things smoother, just be like the majority 'others', no more then you can be accused of faking being human.

I think you have to get into purposeful deceptions for self serving reasons to stray into being fake. Like a person faking they are Aspie to justify behaviors or gain benefits,.

 

[onlything]

That's a good question. I would say that the difference here lies in potential self-harming behaviour and lack of acceptance. When you learn that a nod or shaking hands as a part of social rules, it's adaptation. But when in fear of being persecuted, seen as weird etc., you not only hide but stop stimming altogether or lie to yourself about social contact and different lights, textures etc. not influencing you - this is when you harm yourself by denial and repression of who you really are. It's when you don't accept that you're different than NTs and force a change is what I would call faking an NT.

 

[Judge]

I think you have to get into purposeful deceptions for self serving reasons to stray into being fake. Like a person faking they are Aspie to justify behaviors or gain benefits,.

I suppose pretty much of any act of self-preservation can be construed as "self-serving". After all, if you stand out socially in a way NTs don't appreciate, more often than not there are consequences. If that makes me "fake" just to avoid such consequences, so be it. From my perspective in order for me to "adapt", it has to be something I'm capable of doing indefinitely, and without any physical or mental anguish.

Though I must say, in all of my life I have never, ever felt fulfilled or feel as if I have gained much of anything as the result of masking my traits and behaviors. Only that I avoided getting my ass kicked. Not much of a payoff if this is considered "self-serving".

As for the semantics of it all....they don't really matter in comparison.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Though I must say, in all of my life I have never, ever felt fulfilled or feel as if I have gained much of anything as the result of masking my traits and behaviors. Only that I avoided getting my ass kicked

Sort of agree. I use humor - initially because of my interest in concepts and ideas and humor is about finding that line societally between what is wrong and right. (For me, as well as a way to communicate the absurdity of the way I see things or enjoy seeing things ) I've learnt to enjoy getting it wrong.
So to some, I'm a poltroon, don't care...
It is easier to be perceived as harmless that way and this is where we conjoin......
And I also avoid getting my arse kicked.

 

[Judge]

Sort of agree. I use humor - initially because pf my interest in concepts and ideas and humor is about finding that line societally between what is wrong and right. (For me,as well as a way to communicate the absurdity of the way i see things or enjoy seeing things )Ive learnt to enjoy getting it wrong.
So to some, Im a poltroon, dont care...
It is easier to be perceived as harmless that way and this is where we conjoin......
And I also avoid getting my arse kicked.

Humor can definitely be a creative and effective catalyst for mitigating precarious social situations. Well done.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Humor can definitely be a creative and effective catalyst for mitigating precarious social situations. Well done.

Doesn't always work! You can ignored for life but in some ways it can sort the wheat from the chaff.

If you get your solitude score to 76%,deduct the loneliness...
You can still come out ahead at 51%

 

[On the Inside]

There were times when I felt I was faking it. Mainly I was allowing myself to succumb to the energy of those around me, acting like them , ( I am a good mimic) trying hard to maintain enthusiasm. It is exhausting and I felt there was no payoff.

Adaptation , I do all the time. From hiding or keeping my quirks on the downlow, keeping my thoughts to myself, and deflecting with humor. If I didn't 't have a quick wit and sense of humor, I would struggle mightily to relate to just about anyone.