Don't you think it's a bit unfair?

[manca]

I was talking to my mom about my social skills and usual conversations. I find small talk boring and I can't figure out why I'd have to be interested in someone's divorce, dog, job or school, etc. Especially after I give an advice and they don't respond to it. If you don't want my opinion, why keep talking and informing me about it? So, anyway, it doesn't seem I can get out of it, right? It's considered rude.
What I find very interesting is that I'm not allowed to talk about horses, physics, biology or any other interesting things to me. I understand they don't find it interesting, but I don't find small talk interesting as well... Shouldn't there be a compromise? Why am I allowed to say only three sentences about horses but they have all the time they want for small talk? How am I considered to be rude after 5 mins about horses and they're not after half an hour about their job?

 

[jimited]

Sounds very selfish and arrogant to me.

 

[King_Oni]

It puzzles me as well why some subjects are ok to talk about and others aren't. It's a stupid assumption that I care about the same things as other people.

That being said; have you ever considered telling these people (your mom for instance) that you don't care about what she's talking about? If that doesn't work... I don't know, just walk away to show disinterest? Quite sure it'll end up in an argument, but I don't really see how trying to keep your cool really hard to sit through endless chatting about stuff you don't care about is constructive either.

I once had a similar thing where someone started yelling at me and said "I'm talking to you!". Yes... you are talking to me, but I'm not listening. Communication is a 2-way thing and clearly you have no grasp about how this works. And until you can present me with a clear understanding of communication protocol please do not talk to me again.

It's a equally silly assumption to expect that people actually want to listen. I guess this quote fits anyone who has this kind of verbal diarrhea of the small kind flavor "you're screaming out loud but you're not saying anything".

By now some people still think I'm crazy and I'm on a powertrip when I tell them "if I want to talk, I'll take the initiative to start a conversation" but it's pretty much the opposite since I obviously have a better understanding on how communication works. With that I think I'm polite if I ask someone "do you want to know what I did today?" rather than start rambling just to get it out of my system.

Quite often I feel that there is no compromise for smalltalk since people assume that everyone likes to chat about meaningless things. Unless you have a good argument why I should be aware of this information I don't see why I should know this. The other way around; I don't know why I should tell someone what level I unlocked in a videogame if I know this person isn't into that specific game.

It's the tedious smalltalk and someones the ones "in charge" (parents, therapists, coaches) that make me think that it's a passive agressive way to tell someone like us "shut the hell up, you cannot start going in debt about your obsessions".

 

[manca]

My mom is actually quite understanding and she listens about my obsessions. Asks questions and such. We were debating why I can't get friends and how to talk. She says if I want to have a friend I have to pretend I'm interested in their stuff, maybe do a net research about recent events, politics and such, provide advices and sympathy when they have problems, etc.
I'm not saying I don't want to do this things, just as long as they are doing the same share on their side. If they only nod and change subject when I'm telling them something, why shouldn't I do the same thing? I think there is noone ready to make a research about hooves for example so they could talk about it with me. Why should I learn about their?
How is that being a friend?

 

[King_Oni]

"Pretend to be interested"... honestly, if I had a friend who just pretended to be into the same stuff, why would I even want a friend? Cleverbot relates more to me then, lol

Besides, here's the most interesting notion; Aspies and research will most likely leave NT's heads spinning. Chances are that in a short amount of time, if it's a subject you actually like you'll know more about it then them, which leads to jealousy and arguments.

There's also another thing to consider; You only have X amount of time a day. How much time should I spend on research to please others? And interact with them about subject X as well? On average people have less than 8 hours of spare time... how is gaining knowledge about stuff you don't really care about not an extra curricular activity that way. And aside from that, wouldn't it be "easier" to befriend people who are also into horses like yourself?

And obviously there's also "what do you want to get out of a friend?"

 

[Ste11aeres]

With many people, I don't necessarily enjoy listening to them for long periods. Most people don't try to talk to me, but if circumstances place me in the position of listening to them, I will do so to be nice, but I avoid such situations. I have noticed that most of the people who go on non-stop about their problems just want to talk, and it doesn't matter to them who they talk to.
I get along well with this one married couple. They are aspies, but they don't know it. The reason we get along, is we don't really talk to each other. I can just come over, and babysit their kid, and sort of silently hang out. Not most people's piece of cake, but it works for us.
I knew one woman who would talk for hours. She was very anxious and depressed and would make me anxious and depressed. I felt really bad for her, and I would like to have been able to help her, but I had to distance myself for my own sanity.
We do now, but that is possible because of our bond. My friend and I did not originally chat, when we were getting to know each other. Our friendship was not formed in that manner, but was formed by working on something together. In the beginning, our conversation was about the thing we were working on.
Our current conversations are possible because we are now close and have an established bond.

So, maybe this is an Aspie thing, but I think that in order for both parties to talk (and enjoy it), they need to already have a friendship. In order to form a friendship, they need to work together on something.
Maybe this is why I hate dating, because it so often consists in sitting across a table from someone one doesn't know/doesn't care about, and being under pressure to talk/listen to this stranger.

 

[manca]

I totally agree with you, King_Oni. I don't understand why my mom keeps saying that I have to work on being friends with someone. Since I'm "weird" that means I should totally change myself and do things I don't enjoy, just to have someone others would say is my friend, but it really isn't, since I'm not important?

What I expect from a friend... Pretty much horsey things. I need help with horses. Not only two person working, but also someone to share experience with, talk about it long way, seeing from other's perspective, going with me on horse events (there are crowds and I really feel better if someone I feel comfortable with is there). I like and need to talk about horses.
I had friends like this before, but longer I'm in horses, more I know and I see things done wrong with horses. It's torturing. The thing is that people don't appreciate your advice and I can't stay around them, when I know it's all wrong.
It's also extremely hard to find horsey people when you don't ride in a club or do shows. I have an add online for working with horses and while there were few people interested, no one was serious about it. And no I'm not looking for someone that would clean stalls, just someone that would groom, take on walks, do ground work and even option to ride. Stuff that people pay for, I'm offering for free. Just expecting that you would come regularly, not be late, pay attention, do homework, research, etc.

I'm on a horse forum and it's very helpful, but not really the same as if they were actually in the same country...

So, maybe this is an Aspie thing, but I think that in order for both parties to talk (and enjoy it), they need to already have a friendship. In order to form a friendship, they need to work together on something. Maybe this is why I hate dating, because it so often consists in sitting across a table from someone one doesn't know/doesn't care about, and being under pressure to talk/listen to this stranger.

I think that's very true. I keep being shocked when someone I only saw few times asks me out. I don't know you, how could I go out with you?

 

[paloftoon]

Manca, I think both you and your mom have great points, and both of you are right!! You are right in that you deserve your own identity and deserve a compromise between your interests and others' small talk. Your mother is also right in that if you want to try to network with other people, that you are able to relate to their conversations. And if you can't respond with small talk to their small talk, then listening is all we can do really. If your interests are too peculiar, which ASes generally have interests too peculiar, then it's very hard to find good matches or people who get it or are willing to work with the situation. I think many AS people are actually quality human beings if our society had enough patience!!

Manca, these people who won't eventually compromise with you, that will tell you right away that this person is only an acquaintance probably, and maybe I can ask them to help me with certain things, but that person is probably not dependable. Give time, but not too much. If 30 minutes is too much, just listen for 5-10. and tell them that you'd listen more if you could, but that they could write a letter or e-mail you the rest because you know that talking about interests too peculiar would be a turn off for most people. It's good to have your own identity, but sometimes if we want to survive more easily in this kinda cruel world, we need to choose to make some sacrifices too- sometimes. :/


I wouldn't follow your mom's advice 100%, but enough so that you can try to find things that will work better for you. Even as accomplished as I am now, I still feel disrespected enough to the point where I'm back and forth between adding then maybe deleting a friend on FB, or not inviting a person again unless they initiate something with me and follow through, etc. . .Good luck Manca.

 

[Kadevilbig]

Hey manaca my names kade I have had a similar problem I love to to talk about autism, neuroscience, And medical things that most people find boring and don't want to talk about. One thing I learned recently was that small talk is boring and annoying but it is a way to get to know another person and find similar interests. You said you like to talk about horses and biology and it sounds like some of the people you are friends with don't generally like or let you talk about those things. Maybe you could try and make new friend with similar interests. That's what I did I had a friend who we really didn't have a lot in common he's a big sports and political science guy I still talked about those things with him because relationships are reciprocal you have to take turns with what you both like to talk about. So I stayed friends with him I just went and found a new friend who has more similar interests with me and I spend more time with her.

In regards to people getting frustrated or not liking your advice sometimes when a person is going through a hard time they just need someone to talk to to let them know there not alone and they will work through it themselves. That new friend I made is like that I tried to give her advice on what I would have done but I wasn't in the same situation so she just needed me to listen and be there for her instead of giving advice on something i didn't have experience on, plus every persons deals with things differently what works for me might not work for her. I had some conflict with that same thing with my old roommate I went to him as friend just needing to talk and he tried give me advice on something he didn't understand. It's kinda like when you tell your friend about something someone said that hurt your feelings and they say don't feel that way don't let it bother you and your like well it did bother me that why I'm talking with you and your frustrated cause there trying to tell you how to feel or what to do instead of being there for you.

 

[Vanilla]

I was talking to my mom about my social skills and usual conversations. I find small talk boring and I can't figure out why I'd have to be interested in someone's divorce, dog, job or school, etc. Especially after I give an advice and they don't respond to it. If you don't want my opinion, why keep talking and informing me about it? So, anyway, it doesn't seem I can get out of it, right? It's considered rude.
What I find very interesting is that I'm not allowed to talk about horses, physics, biology or any other interesting things to me. I understand they don't find it interesting, but I don't find small talk interesting as well... Shouldn't there be a compromise? Why am I allowed to say only three sentences about horses but they have all the time they want for small talk? How am I considered to be rude after 5 mins about horses and they're not after half an hour about their job?

I understand what you mean by small talk being a bit dull, and how you can't always talk about things you're interested in, but I also understand that it's considered rude to not partake in it.

When I was younger, I never understood the need for small talk. Now I find, generally speaking, everyone does small talk more so as a social tool, more than because they're interested in the topic. It's more of a necessity. Without it, strangers would simply stand there, not saying anything at all, and that's just uncomfortable (even if you don’t feel the awkwardness, the other person might). That’s why they don’t generally talk about what they’re interested in. If you've just met them, they might find it random for you to bring up an obscure topic of conversation, and might not be able to relate to the topic, and have nothing to say on the matter. It's easier to relate to topics about work, family, the weather, because everyone has an opinion they can bring to the table.

I'd say just humour them with the small talk, try to take an interest if you can, make them feel comfortable. Then talk about the stuff you care about with your friends, who will probably listen to you better, and are close enough to you that they no longer require small talk to fill silences.

I've also been there when people ask for advice, but don't take it. Some people may not want advice; merely someone to vent to. Otherwise, they're looking for advice, but won't settle until they hear the answer they want to hear. As this is an emotional form of behaviour, it doesn't necessarily need to make sense. They probably just want a hug, or want to hear that 'everything will be ok'.

 

[Spinning Compass]

Hi, Manca, you could have been me 40 years ago, because that's all I wanted to do is to talk about horses. It was so bad that in fourth grade my family and teachers forbade me to read, talk about or have anything to do with horses unless I had their permission. If I didn't, I got punished, and I don't mean a wimpy time out in the corner, it was borderline abuse, if not actual abuse. That's the way they did things back then. I still love horses, but you know, there is a bit of sadness tinged in with that like. I don't know if you can understand. It's like the shine has been taken away.

I too do not understand why some things are acceptable to talk about and not others. The only thing I can come up with is that most people have allowed their curiosity and passion to die (or had it killed) and are content with living a shallow, superficial life. I once had a conversation with my father about that. He said, "I did not raise you to be shallow." I said to him, "Dad, perhaps it would have been kinder if you had."

Over the years I have learned to fake small talk but I don't really enjoy it. Take courage. There are environments out there that are more intellectually stimulating, and of course, there is the Internet which I didn't have back then (but probably wouldn't have been allowed to use freely if there had been), so you can discuss horses on-line with like-minded people. And maybe you will have the opportunity to work around horses (I didn't).

 

[manca]

I gave up on having friends... For the last few months I'm not trying to talk and socialize with people I don't know well. I just can't take that, it's too much work for no results or I end annoyed. And it's better, I'm not that anxious anymore, and headaches school was causing me pretty much stopped. If someone asks me something I reply in one word sentences.
I spend a lot of time on horse forums and that's nice, but it's just not the same thing as the real person that would spend time with me and my horses.

I wonder if one day I'll just stop talking... Or maybe I'll be lucky and once I finally end school and get a job, I'll be financially able to get into some kind of horse events and meet people I like.

Luckily, I have my own two horses at home, they mean much to me, but they're not people and sometimes it gets lonely.

 

[Spinning Compass]

"Or maybe I'll be lucky and once I finally end school and get a job . . . "

Luck has very little to do with it, if you are hoping and waiting for luck, you will end up very disappointed. You need to PLAN to get a job. These are, as I said to someone else, the most crucial foundational years of your life. You don't get a reset. Jobs do not just happen once you get out of high school. And these days, just having a high school diploma isn't enough. I can't stress that strongly enough. I've seen too many young adults trapped into a life of poverty and declining choices because they assumed that they would be lucky.

I can tell you right now, because it was once my dream to have a horse and get into horse events, that you are not ever going to be able to do that on the kind of money you can earn with just a high school diploma and no job skills. I am really concerned about the path you are drifting on, because the further down that path you go the harder it will be to turn around. Right now, you have time to change that.

 

[manca]

I was going with if I'm lucky I'll meet friends at horse events once I get a job and I'm able to get to this events.

I ended high school and I'm in my second year of uni/college (not sure what my program is called over the sea ), to become an engineer of radiology. I have two more years (including this year) to do and then 9 months to work as a "beginner". We have few months to work in different hospitals in the program, every year. I'm doing my best there. Exams don't cause me much trouble. I'll finish the school with no bigger problems. Getting the job could be tricky though, because public sector is not supposed to employ more people right now due to financial crises. I hope that will resolve until I get on the market.

I realize how much money horses cost, I'm paying for all of their needs myself, using my scholarship and occasional job. It does get pricey, especially as my mare has arthritis in sacroiliac joint and needs regular vet care. We have our own hay though and that takes expenses down. I also learned to trim their hooves myself after being disappointed with various farriers here. Unfortunately vet expenses eat all money I could use to get into a club, compete or something.

Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it.

 

[Warwick C]

Manca I think there is hope for you here, firstly it is all about finding a balance. I am sure there are alot of people interested in horses. What is your envolvement with horses?

The trainer at my physio/gym is into horse training competetitive jumping, I am not sure if it is show jumping or just jumping, I think it is for hight competitions.

 

[manca]

Before I got my own horse I was in a riding school for 5 years, then starting to jump. I was only jumping for few months, and the price was so high that I could afford my own horse for that money, so I did... I had friends in the club. I lost contact with them in time.

Now I have two horses at home, my mare used to be a showjumper, but we just focused on trail riding and flat work. Pony is for her company and is not rideable (he's a rescue, health issues). I'd like to do some dressage in future or try endurance. I enjoy jumping, but not the most. My mare is almost 17 years old and has arthritis and calcification of SI joint so her soundness level varies up and down and vet bills are high. She's rideable currently but I have to follow the rehab program and if we're lucky we may hit trails this summer again, though we won't be able to get that far anymore.
I can't afford to go back under training or to start going to events/competitions. Sometimes I go to watch a show nearby, but I don't actually meet anyone.

I had an online ad to find people that want to spend time with horses (for free), and there were few interested, only one actually showed up, but she wasn't serious enough (always late, etc) and her behavior and talking were driving me nuts.

I keep in touch with two other horse owners, but we live quite far apart. We go for a ride together once or twice a year. If someone needs an advice we hear each other. That's pretty much it. I know many people that own horses, but their care taking (or lack of) makes me dislike them.

 

[Warwick C]

Manca what do you mean by training? you or the horse.

My form of aspergerers has me drawn to to solid inaminate objects, I put up with animals I am getting better with people.

 

[Spinning Compass]

You have a horse and you actually have participated in events? Great!!! That's more than I ever got to do. Seriously. (Apart from running away from home at 21 and working at a racetrack which didn't work out too well seeing I had no experience.) I would have DIED to be in your position.

You may not realize it but you are actually very lucky. There are thousands of girls out there that are horse-crazy and have to be content with just reading about them or watching shows about them. A while back there was a book called "All Those Girls In Love With Horses" by Robert Vavra and at the end he printed a letter from a girl that wrote, "Please don't forget about all those girls in love with horses that can never hope to have one." It's quite moving, because really, we are the ones who are never acknowledged.

Anyway, I understand your frustration, but please don't give up. It sounds like you are going through a bit of depression, something I know about all too well. And everything looks hopeless when you are depressed. I wish I could have something more concrete to offer you but I don't. I didn't realize you were going to university already. I was afraid that you were like some of the young people I know who are just drifting aimlessly through life hoping things will fall in your lap. Is there anyone at school that you can talk to about your feelings like at the university health services?

 

[Warwick C]

Manca I agree with Spinning compass that you are in a lucky position. You have interest which can introduce you to more people, and you have a direction to follow.

What you can do at the moment is to consider this to be a stepping stone towards more freinds in the future.

Out of couriosity how do you get on with the english langauge here, if you don't mind me asking.

 

[tridianprime]

Just zone out when listening to other people. Thats what i used to do. Your lucky your mum talks about your obsessions with you.

I would still zone out but i don't talk to people offline hardly at all. I spoke to someone offline in August and haven't done since.