Does anyone here believe we are in the biblical end times?

[mw2530]

It is a late night and I have been racking my brain to think of a topic to start a thread on. I consider myself a Christian, but struggle with how literally I should interpret the Bible. I do not attend church on a regular basis, but did so as I was growing up. I know the book of Revelation speaks to the end times and what events will take place.

Sometimes, I think we may be in those end times because the world is such a mess, but then I think back to history class and recall that the world has always been a mess. There have been terrible things all throughout human history. But what is intriguing is that certain prophesies in the Bible have been fulfilled even in modern history. The most influential to me is the fact that the Jews re-established their homeland in Israel. This is prophesied and needed to occur before the end times from my understanding.

It is amazing to me that Jews that were scattered across the globe at one point were able to regather in their homeland. Of course, there are Jews living everywhere in the world. More and more stories in the Bible continue to be supported by archaeological evidence. Ancient cities have been discovered that are mentioned in the Bible. But you can never prove the supernatural.

I'm rambling, but wanted to get people's thoughts.

 

[Beguiling Orbit]

Another really obvious sign of the end times will be the building of the Third Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Ezekiel 41-44), which could take years considering the current political climate. Considering that the Al-Aqsa mosque is sitting on top of the foundation, Jordan controls the site and Jews cannot set foot on it, rebuilding now would be extremely difficult to do. Until we see all of that change, we know that there's still plenty of time left. How much time, though, we don't know nor are we supposed to know--nor should we even care. We end-times Christians are simply supposed to practice holiness and do good to others whenever we can. That should be our focus.

 

[Judge]

So many choices...though I suppose the ones that lapsed with time no longer count.

List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia

 

[xDominiel]

I don't believe in end times. Most prophecies are self-fulfilled. There are plenty of religious groups who actively work to make it happen. If the third temple triggers a large-scale conflict that's just humans being humans. But I can see the appeal of the idea, tbh. It certainly would make things much simpler if some supernatural force just flew down here to clean up this chaotic violent mess we call the world.

 

[OkRad]

It is weird. When I was a kid, I thought Revelation was all allegory. But now? They are chipping people (mark on hand), locusts in sky are helicopters, the Beast will certainly be a product of genetic engineering, the waters are definately poisoned, nuclear bombs can bring melting with fervent heat.
The weird thing is that it was written before all these things were even known......

 

[Ambi]

I don't know when exactly Jesus will return, but I just focus on following Christ now - as He said, that's what we are to focus on rather than trying to calculate when He is returning. I do know 2 things: many people in the past have felt they were in the end times, and I understand now why it feels this way, too. The other thing is practical, just as my first statement that we are to just focus on living our lives regardless of whether we are in the end times or not - from a Christian perspective, everyone has to face the "second coming" when they die, so regardless of what happens in our lifetime, we need to still prepare ourselves for when we meet Christ at death, to prepare for the coming judgement whether it happens after we have died or not. So, to me, in a practical sense, we are to live as though we are in the "end times" regardless.

 

[Propianotuner]

Giving some serious thought to the literature on Amillennialism and Preterism can have a salubrious, astringent effect on all of the minds out there preoccupied with the End Times and whether we are in them. Also no matter where you ultimately end up on eschatology it is important to start in your readings of Jeremiah, Daniel, Revelation, Jesus' Olivet Discourses (e.g. Matthew 21), etc. with the current audience on the forefront of your mind, the original listeners to those words and consumers of that literature.

I am largely unresolved on the subject and tend more towards Partial Preterism. To my understanding Revelation is a deeply Hebrew book that draws heavily on the prophets who spoke much about or lived during exile times, and aside from using especially Daniel for its expressive language it bears great resemblance to inter-testamental literature, in particular the Qumran's War Scroll. The author wasn't so much into using a bunch of loaded language and references to garner such fanciful ideas as people have been wont to come up with over the centuries, as he was into using the marvelous images and ideas of a well established genre to express profound theological themes.

What should be most important for any Christian reading Revelation is not timelines and endless confusion over minutiae but the awe inspiring themes, general truths, and instructions for the churches. The primary material that is explicitly instructive is the addresses to the seven churches, while the rest is a fantastic exploration of the eschaton, a Greek expression for God's purpose in His Creation and the source of the word 'eschatology'.

General truths that are important for any Christian to dwell on:

-Numbers and cycles of numbers. Hebrew people had a long established tradition of referring back to the acrostic Hebrew aleph-bet and assigning thematic and theological meanings to those numbers so they can be used in a literary context to reinforce important ideas. Seven is the number for 'perfect' and 'complete', and it is particularly associated with God. Twelve is 'complete' in the sense of community. Six is 'incomplete', it is imperfection. Merely understanding these three numbers is the key to appreciating so many raw truths in Revelation, how every cycle of seven is in a way a microcosm, another retelling of the way God sees the whole picture from another point of view.

-The inevitability and ultimate nature of God's plan, His awe inspiring qualities, and the central things to observe and adore in worship. Especially take a look at chapters 4-5 and 21-22. These are the heart and soul of the book, the entire reason that the rest of the content is there. Seriously contemplating and understanding those chapters can be key in melting the iciness of the debate over the whole book and seeing it for what it is: a book chiefly concerned with the adoration and love of God.

 

[abby normal]

regardless of what it says in the good book, I believe we all here will live to see a big world "reset." the world to come will not resemble the world thus far.

 

[abby normal]

"the mark of the beast" is another late-night worry for this "coast to coast" listener. when all are compelled to accept the mark in order to buy or sell, I guess i'll have to starve.

 

[GrownupGirl]

Do I think the world might end soon. Oh yes. Do I think it's because an angry 30-foot bearded man sitting up on some cloud will begin the rapture and then suddenly all the "good", god-fearing, church-going people who didn't choose to be gay suddenly vanish with only their neatly folded clothes left behind? I think you know the answer to that one. But if you want to believe that this bearded giant will send down his son, whom we created by impregnating a virgin woman without her consent and then left him to be tortured and horribly killed afterwards, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion as long as you understand that others may feel differently.

 

[Mr Allen]

The end of the world is nigh! We're all doomed, DOOMED I tells thee!

Yeah, won't happen, not in any of our lifetimes anyway IMO, maybe in a few thousand years when habitable life on other Planets is discovered,

 

[kay]

This thread started over a year old, glad it is revived because oddly this gets my mind off a lot of things that I am worrying about. I read the book of Revelation 4 times and found it a very interesting, and a very odd piece of writing. Nothing to be taken literally and so therefore open to all sorts of varied interpretation. Which can be a lot of fun and depends on what people are looking for. As for Israel, it's not really surprising that they managed to start up a country because they would have been highly motivated people. And it was a very long time goal and why it would be prophesied to happen before end times. After wouldn't work out so well. Getting the Temple rebuilt and finding an unblemished red calf which I have heard is an important piece to all this, well, that may take another 1000 years or so I would think. And by then may be nobody around who cares or a giant asteroid would have wiped out the entire area. I have some pretty big worries on my mind right now and have been told repeatedly not to worry because what will be will be. So, same with end times I guess, religious or secular.

 

[Mary Anne]

Yes, the Book of Revelations sounds a lot like our times in many parts of it.

I read it back in 1973, and parts of it stuck with me. That why I like to tie in the movies: “The Oman” (first one in 1976- last in 2006) series of movies are favorites of mine. Certain leaders seem to have the mark of the beast on their scalps- as they get away with everything - as mentioned in Revelations. This is 21st Century stuff!

A whole lot of people around the planet DO take it and the rest of the Bible quite literally. Always mystifies me. But Revelations is written so intensively that I can easily imagine it. That and being raised with movies like the Ten Commandments every single Easter. Very mentally stimulating to watch the angel of death creep through town, or have sticks turn into snakes.

 

[mw2530]

Do I think it's because an angry 30-foot bearded man sitting up on some cloud will begin the rapture and then suddenly all the "good", god-fearing, church-going people who didn't choose to be gay suddenly vanish with only their neatly folded clothes left behind?

Hmmm, I didn't realize God had to have a 30 foot beard. Interesting take though.

 

[mw2530]

Say what you will. Anyone is entitled to believe whatever they please. But clearly there are opposing forces in this world of good and evil. I don't think anyone can dispute that. And every human is capable of both good or evil deeds and thoughts.

 

[Tesseract]

Do I think the world might end soon. Oh yes. Do I think it's because an angry 30-foot bearded man sitting up on some cloud will begin the rapture and then suddenly all the "good", god-fearing, church-going people who didn't choose to be gay suddenly vanish with only their neatly folded clothes left behind? I think you know the answer to that one. But if you want to believe that this bearded giant will send down his son, whom we created by impregnating a virgin woman without her consent and then left him to be tortured and horribly killed afterwards, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion as long as you understand that others may feel differently.

I don't think anyone believes what you have outlined here. What you have here is what's known as a 'strawman', an easy target of derision that you yourself have created out of thin air.
As for living in "the End Times", no, we're not, because that was 2,000 years ago. "Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." - Matthew 24:34, and there are many other passages throughout the New Testament that back up the view that the Christians of the first century believed that they would live to see the end.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Hmmm, I didn't realize God had to have a 30 foot beard

Awkward for going to the toilet

 

[Progster]

I believe that we live in dangerous times in that mankind possesses the knowledge and technology to destroy most if not all life on the planet, but I don't believe in what the Bible says literally or that a person living 2000 years ago could see into the future to predict what is going to happen in the 21st century. Even if the sun swells up and engulfs the planet billions of years from now, that might be the end of humanity and the Earth, but not the end of time. We don't know enough about time and how it works to say when, how and if time will end. I have heard theories which link time and the existence of matter to observation, and how these may be linked to Biblical references, but still, no definitive proof for such theories.

 

[Mary Anne]

Say what you will. Anyone is entitled to believe whatever they please. But clearly there are opposing forces in this world of good and evil. I don't think anyone can dispute that. And every human is capable of both good or evil deeds and thoughts.

“Opposing forces?” Can you explain these “forces” to me in a more concrete way?

People go on about “good and evil” as if there were no inbetween. The fact is there are a million shades of gray - we all have some good and some bad and a whole lot of inbetween also. No human is all good, and very rarely, except for extreme sociopaths, are there “evil” humans. Humans are capable of truly hideous things. Does that make them 100% “evil?”

I was raised with the concept of “good and evil.” It took many years of living to see what a stereotyped simple concept that was. It really messes up society to think that way, because it removes acceptance, and w quickly judge others.

 

[Theta.G]

Satan, lucifer and demons are worshipped and admired now openly when in the 90's this would be unthinkable. There are far less Christians now and far less believers in god in general. People have been brain washed into committing mass murder atrocities. Roughly 95% of our entertainment is where killing is glorified and graphic. (shows, movies, games, news). Many also display demons as the good guys now.

While our awareness of world events was in the dark before the internet... When the net came along the direction of those world events has been hi-jacked. Filtered and poisoned before being distributed to everyone. We only ever hear about the murders or tragedies around the world. Constant fallacies spun as truth too. It's been pushed so heavily that many have the "end times" world view. Repetition bundled with so many other psychological exploits... it's sick. Worse still, a large majority aren't aware of how this happens or that they've even impacted by it. It's the stupid ego. "Well i never heard of that so it must not be true" or "I don't get it so it's a lie". "It's not bundled with the psychological exploits i am used to from main stream news so i reject it". One may know that there are good things that happen in the world but if it isn't reinforced like they do with all the bad it wouldn't be adopted as a core belief.
I hate using this trigger word because people have been conditioned to react a certain way and they think of a cartoonfied definition but... Mind control. Mind control on a massive scale is exactly what we live with. Right now.

We are in an end time of sorts. Those who are ignorant to the things mentioned above live in a happy little bubble that repels all the bad mentioned and so they won't have the end time world view as a core belief. The end time world view itself was initially FALSE but we never knew because of how tightly controlled the stream of information is. However through long and repetitive indoctrination most now believe it to be true. It's become accepted. So, the actual horrofic events we are fed ramp up. Some are "natural" sure, but some are induced by man or entities with ulterior motives. People can keep their minds safe in ignorance of this if they want, which they will do when hack job logical fallacies are fed to them, but it's the truth. There is money and power in this. Paying off some useful idiots for a much larger return... then disposing of them and keeping all your money and incoming profits...Ya that's never happened before has it... except... well... it happens every day.

Sorry got off track speaking my mind.
The end times was initially false but it has become true. Faith in god... the human condition...in decline.

Words are ambiguous and this is packed with enough trigger words that the intended message will be distorted beyond recognition. -_-'