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Do You Believe in Ghosts?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by DC1346, Sep 26, 2015.

  1. DC1346

    DC1346 Well-Known Member

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    i-see-dead-people-228x256.jpg

    I see dead people ... okay ... not like the character Cole Sear (played by Haley Joel Osment) in the 1999 production of The Sixth Sense, a supernatural thriller produced and directed by M. Night Shyamalan.

    But I have seen dead people walking this Earth.

    Years ago I worked as a Culinary Arts teacher at a small rural district in Arizona. The community I worked in was reasonably affluent and was heavily Mormon. Most of the teachers at my high school were Mormon. My immediate supervisor was also Mormon.

    During my first year, I could do no wrong. My principal loved me and I was given a PERFECT evaluation. Sometime during the 2nd year, something went terribly wrong. I was still the same teacher I had been the previous year but all of the sudden, I couldn't do anything right.

    The principal went from smiling at me in the hallways to pointedly ignoring me if she saw me. Even if I wished her a "good morning," she refused to acknowledge my presence.

    One day she called me into her office to scream about the disgraceful lack of cleanliness and sanitation in my commercially licensed kitchen. I didn't know what she was talking about. The county health inspector had literally come to my kitchen the previous day and he had given us a PERFECT SCORE. How could the kitchen that had been so clean and immaculate one day suddenly be "disgracefully lacking?"

    "A lot can happen in 24 hours!" grumbled the principal. She beckoned me to follow her and led the way to the Culinary Arts kitchen.

    "LOOK AT THIS!" she barked pointing at a food prep table.

    I looked but didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

    "DO YOU SEE THIS?"

    I looked again.

    "WELL?"

    "Well what?"

    "WHAT DO YOU SEE?"

    I looked again. I didn't know what she was talking about. "What do I see? I see a stainless steel prep table."

    "ARE YOU BEING SMART WITH ME?"

    "No ma'am."

    "THAT TABLE IS A DISGRACE! IT'S FILTHY! IT'S COVERED WITH HARD WATER STAINS!"

    I shrugged. "There's nothing I can do about that. Hard water stains are the result of mineral residue in the tap water. It has nothing to do with cleanliness or sanitation."

    "ARE YOU STUPID?"

    "No ma'am ... and I wish you'd stop yelling at me."

    "I WILL STOP YELLING WHEN YOU STOP BEING ARGUMENTATIVE! YOUR KITCHEN IS A FILTHY DISGRACE! i WANT IT SCRUBBED FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. I WANT THOSE DISGUSTING HARD WATER STAINS REMOVED!"

    i scratched my head. "How am I supposed to do that?"

    "SERIOUSLY ARE YOU STUPID? DO YOU NOT HAVE STAINLESS STEEL POLISH! DO YOUR JOB AND USE STAINLESS STEEL POLISH!"

    I blanched. "I can't do that! The state health code says that the chemical residue of stainless steel polish is toxic and I'm not allowed to ..."

    "ARE YOU ARGUING WITH ME?"

    "No ma'am, but I need to explain that!"

    "THAT'S IT MISTER! I'M WRITING YOU UP FOR BEING UNPROFESSIONAL, ARGUMENTATIVE, AND INSUBORDINATE! NOW I'M GIVING YOU ONE LAST CHANCE! CLEAN THIS DISGRACEFUL KITCHEN! OR ELSE!"

    I was quivering with anger when this woman left. After weeks of treating me with gross disrespect, she had yelled at me IN PUBLIC, had issued an illegal order, and when I challenged this order - stating that it was a violation of the state health code to leave toxic chemical residues on food prep surfaces, she had told me that I'd be receiving a written reprimand.

    I went to my office, printed out the relevant health code, highlighted it in yellow, and made a beeline for the superintendent's office. The superintendent was a tiny woman by the name of Dr. Givens. Dr. Givens listened to my story, read the highlighted health code, and immediately called the principal.

    "You may NOT tell chef to break the law," she said. "Using stainless steel polish on steel prep tables would be a major health code violation." She listened for a minute and then hung up the phone.

    "There you go," she said with a smile. "Problem solved."

    But the problem wasn't solved.

    The next day, I was given my formal teacher's evaluation. I had failed every area of the evaluation. Whereas I had once had clearly outstanding scores for every measurable standard, the principal had accused me of gross incompetence, poor class management, insubordination, and an an inability to accept "constructive criticism". I was written up for having a filthy unsanitary and dirty kitchen. I was even written up for not using technology in my classroom .... never mind the fact that my school had provided laptops to every teacher on campus except for yours truly.

    I was LIVID.

    I went back to the superintendent at day's end with the evaluation. She looked at it and sighed. "Well ... I've seen worse. Ms. ____ is clearly getting back at you for having talked to me. I'm sorry for that ... but since today is the last day before the Christmas break, let's take care of this when the school year resumes in 2 weeks. Don't worry about this chef, I'll make it right."

    The only problem was that Dr. Givens never had the chance to make it right. She died of a massive coronary on Christmas Eve and instead of celebrating Christmas, her family had to plan her funeral.

    The district initiated emergency calls to all faculty and staff using a phone tree ... but my principal left me off the list ... so I missed the superintendent's memorial and funeral. It was a senseless and petty act ... but quite in character with this woman's vindictive behavior.

    When the school year resumed I learned about the death of the superintendent. I also learned that she had been replaced with a man who was best buddies with ... you guessed it ... my principal.

    My bad year got worse a whole lot more quickly.

    I was put on an "improvement plan" but my principal wouldn't tell me how I was supposed to improve or how I was supposed to document this improvement. I wound up creating an improvement plan and submitting weekly emails to her regarding my progress. We never had a meeting to discuss my progress and she never did a follow up evaluation as required by district policy to confirm that I had addressed all areas of concern.

    Although I was invited to return to the school district for another year, I couldn't bear the thought of working with this administrative bully ... so I resigned.

    I was immediately replaced with a Mormon instructor from a neighboring district. As a final parting "gift" my former principal kept me unemployed for six months. Try as I might, I couldn't get another job ... and I couldn't understand why because I'm quite good at job interviews. A kind administrator finally took pity on me and told me that my former boss had been disparaging me during reference checks.

    I immediately retained an attorney who slapped my former supervisor, the school board, and my district with a lawsuit for defamation and for retaliation under the state's whistle blower law. Since I had been replaced with a Mormon, the attorney wanted to add a discrimination charge but I talked her out of this because I didn't want to make religion part of this case.

    As part of the lawsuit, my attorney hired a PI who called my former boss while pretending to be an HR director for a large school district. A court recorder transcribed the entire phone call.

    As much as I disliked my former supervisor, I had a hard time reading the transcript. The woman had out and out LIED about me. She accused me of everything short of being a child molester. I was lazy. I was incompetent. I had held a meeting with a state official behind her back ... never mind that I had an email confirming permission to meet with the state's CTE director during school hours.

    I was accused of having "abandoned my class to meet with a state official" never mind the fact that the principal had given me WRITTEN PERMISSION to meet with the state director in my office. The office had a large window that opened into the classroom, so I could see what the students were doing.

    The really chilling part about this reference check was that my former boss laughed and asked the "HR director" not to let me know about their conversation. She didn't want word getting back to me that she had sabotaged yet another job interview.

    So ... my attorney hit my former district with a lawsuit and because I really didn't have an interest in winning $250,000 or more in damages from the district, I secretly told the New superintendent that all I really wanted to do was to get a job without anymore sabotage efforts on the part of my former principal.

    The next thing I knew, I had a job in Tucson. I dropped the lawsuit and moved.

    Now here's the ghost story.

    On my first day of work, I was headed back to my classroom from the administrative office. I looked down the walkway and saw a woman who looked just like Dr. Givens standing outside my classroom door. Not only did she look like Dr. Givens but she was also wearing the same red coat that I had seen her wear in my last school district.

    The woman did not look like a ghost. She was completely corporeal. She smiled at me, turned to my classroom, opened the door, and went inside.

    I hurried after her ... and found an empty and darkened classroom. I turned on the lights. There was no one there. Could she be in the kitchen? The classroom connected to the kitchen, so I crossed the room, opened the kitchen door, turned on the lights ... and there was no one there.

    There was only one way in or out of the classroom ... and that was from the door that I had entered ... and the only way in or out of the kitchen was through the doorway I was standing in.

    Far from being scared, I felt a sense of calm. I felt a warm reassuring presence. I felt warmth and love and a sense of peace.

    This happened just after school in broad daylight. I was not on medication and I was not asleep at my desk.

    The only explanation I have is that the ghost of Dr. Givens had come to check up on me to and to reassure me that everything would be alright.

    That was my most vivid ghostly experience. I will share others if there is any interest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2015
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  2. Ste11aeres

    Ste11aeres Moderator Staff Member

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    Many people might think I am crazy, but I do believe in the possibility of ghosts even though I have never encountered one.
    Why do I believe in them? Well, ghosts are people who have died. As a Catholic, I believe that someone's soul continues to exist even after their body has died. I also believe that those souls go either to Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory. (Purgatory is temporary).
    Okay, but it's only a ghost if it's on earth. Well, the testimony of multiple persons is evidence (proof? no. evidence? yes) of a possibility that some souls are at least sometimes on earth. Why are they on earth? I don't know...But in your case, maybe it was permitted so that she might give you a moment of peace...She sounds like a good person.
     
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  3. Suzanne

    Suzanne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    No, because if I did, I would be going contrary to what I read in the bible ie God's Word! (To me, that is).

    Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 state that the dead are conscious of nothing at all. This is because we ARE the soul ie in our life force.

    Think on this: Jesus resurrected ones. Well if their "soul" went to heaven, why resurrect them? Surely they would be resurrected as spirits to a place where they are in the very presence of God? It seems a bit inane to resurrect them to earth, in the wake of the opposite!

    Our brains are just amazing and we only use 1%.

    Unfortunately, there is another spirit that acts as the "angel of light" as sets out to deceive ones, into believing their dead loved ones are talking to them.

    You see, if someone professes to be a christian and yet, contracts what the bible actually says; how can that one be truly a christian? Surely a christian would love the bible, since 2 Timothy 3:16 states that ALL scripture is inspired and Jesus OFTEN quoted from the Hebrew scriptures.

    I apologise if my answer contravenes the guidelines, but so difficult when questions such as these are asked!
     
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  4. Cosmophylla

    Cosmophylla (coz-MOFF-illa) V.I.P Member

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    I don't believe in ghosts, but I do believe you saw what you saw. :) I'm really glad you did, too, because you deserved it after that painful experience.
     
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  5. Spiller

    Spiller Just.. WEIRD!

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    I always wonder at how 'belief' comes into a subject like this (not meaning to be pedantic by picking on the one word and certainly not disparaging anyones' use of it)..

    There's anecdotal evidence that ghosts exist, though no unequivocal proof - many people have reported such experiences over a long recorded history, just the same as many other phenomena we now consider natural.

    Reporting rocks falling from the sky was an act of herecy just a few centuries ago, as was the observation that celestial bodies didn't actually orbit the Earth.
    Evidence, even proof, doesn't seem to be the problem - it's the establishments ignorance and rigid belief in it's own incontrovertible accuracy that is, I think.

    My philosophy is always to keep an open mind - never stay fixed on an opinion in the face of contradictory evidence.

    My particular bug-bear is the scientific establishment - despite the knowledge that 50% of known facts now will be disproven in 10-20 years, scientists still refuse to investigate paranormal phenomena as they don't believe in that stuff.. are not 'science' and 'belief' actually contradictory terms?

    If we investigate ghosts, maybe we'll find proof that they exist and that there's life after death, or maybe we'll prove the existence of God and the other guy instead.. or maybe it's all suggestion and group hallucinations..
    Either way we won't be disparaging people for their experiences and science won't be making itself look stupid by ignoring evidence.

    Will it take the equivalent of the thousandth rag-clad peasant to show a priest a rock that fell from the sky before scientists actually practice science universally?

    I've had some unexplainable things happen to me over the years - I'm not one to cry "Ghost" or "UFO" every time I see something odd, I really try to find a reasonable explanation first and if I can't, then I'll chalk it up to a possible sighting/experience.
    I've seen 3 possible UFO's and 2 possible ghosts.. though one of them was a town.
     
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  6. wanderer03

    wanderer03 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I do believe in ghosts. Several times I think I've seen them.

    DC1346 I'm really sorry that you had to put up with that principal. She sounded psychotic.
     
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  7. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I do not actually believe in them (yet), because of the lack of scientific evidence. Some stories, such as your own, are compelling and believable but remain testimonial. So until their exsistence is proven I still look for non-supernatural explanations. In your case I can only spectulate. But something to do with a stress induced heightened state would be my guess. A mind is capable of great creativity and non standard operation (ie, dreams, nightmares, daydreams, spacing out). Stress and duress are very powerful forces, mentally.

    So I would summarize it like this. The event/vision did happen, but your own mind created it.
     
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  8. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    No, I don't believe in ghosts. I believe that those who see ghost do genuinely see or feel something - they aren't making it up, but there is always a logical explanation for what they saw or felt.
     
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  9. DC1346

    DC1346 Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh ... but I am not Christian.

    I used to be ... or rather, I used to try to be ... partially because I like the morality of Protestant churches (specifically United Methodists which have a strong tradition of establishing ministries as a way of helping other people) ... but also because I was raised as an atheist and during my teenage rebellion years, going to Church really ticked my father off.

    My problem with Christianity is that I've never been able to take that spiritual leap of the faith ... the one where you have to accept Jesus Christ as the son of God who died on the cross so that our sins would be forgiven.

    Even before I knew I was an aspie, I had problems accepting this because there was no proof ... no external sources of documentation outside of Christian teachings.

    Did Christ exist? Absolutely. There are lots of Roman records left attesting to his trial by Pontius Pilate.

    Was he the Son of God? I don't know ... and I lack the faith to make that spiritual leap.

    I've had an off again and on again love of Church for many years but I finally gave up in part as a result of the experience I described with my school administrator in the first thread.

    While I was unemployed, the pastor of the local Methodist Church got to know me better. Since he didn't cook, I started having him over to my home once a week. I appreciated his company ... until he began criticizing me for having Mormon friends.

    Despite everything that happened in that school district, I did have friends and I refused to accept his belief that the only reason they were friends with me was because they wanted to convert me. I had told these people at the outset that I attended the United Methodist Church and while I respected their faith in the LDS (Church of Latter Day Saints), I could not accept the idea of the Book of Mormon ... that after Christ rose again, he walked among the Native Americans and that years later, the Book of Mormon was written as a sequel to the New Testament ... a sort of Christ, Book 2 ...

    And the pastor didn't know my friends. He had never met them ... so who was he to label them as ungodly and blasphemous heathen? Labeling an entire group of people as blasphemous was blatantly racist ... as evil a thought as suggesting that all African Americans eat fried chicken and watermelon ... or all Chinese (I am ethnic Chinese) speak with a Charlie Chan accent and say things in broken English like "Ah-so ... me now understand ..." accompanied by a great deal of bowing ... (EYE ROLL)

    I will admit that after 6 months of unemployment, I felt quite forsaken ... and now the pastor of my Church was putting down my friends who just happened to be Mormon.

    I found that I could no longer accept the pastor's spiritual leadership ... so I stopped volunteering at the food bank. I stopped leading Bible studies. I stopped being the Church's videographer. I also stopped attending services.

    My belief (or lack thereof) is not a criticism of anyone's faith. I'm happy for those of you who believe ... but I don't have faith and after many years of struggling over the issue of faith, I've ended my relationship with Protestant Churches.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
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  10. Ste11aeres

    Ste11aeres Moderator Staff Member

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    There are actually plenty of biblical passages that do suggest that souls continue to live without the body. (There is even a ghost story). I'm not going to go into them because of forum guidelines against religious debates/arguments. It is true that interpretation of Scripture is difficult. Almost all Christians love the Bible-please don't say that they don't just because their interpretation of it differs from yours.
     
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  11. DC1346

    DC1346 Well-Known Member

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    So here's another experience I had.

    Years ago ... back in 2003, I stayed at a B&B inn in Pennsylvania. The inn had been built in 1863 and had been remodeled during the 90's as a B&B. It had 7 guest rooms with attached bathrooms, two dining areas, a parlor, a kitchen, and a third floor suite complete with its own dining area, kitchen, and bathroom.

    It was a cold February night and I was wearing PJ's and a bathrobe. The steam radiator in my 2nd floor room was contentedly gurgling and I was lying in bed, propped up with pillows, reading a book. Since the radiator had done an excellent job of heating the room, the room had gotten a bit stuffy, so my bedroom door was open to the hallway.

    At midnight I heard the backdoor, just off the staircase on the ground floor, open and close. I then heard the sound of heavy footsteps coming up the stairs.

    Since I am a very private person and didn't want a stranger to see me in my PJs and bathrobe, I quietly closed my bedroom door just as the footsteps reached the landing at the top of the stairs. The footsteps passed my room and headed down the hall. I heard the rattle of a key and a door opened and closed.

    I didn't think anything of it. I was after all staying at a B&B inn and figured that I had simply heard another guest.

    In the morning, I went downstairs for breakfast. The innkeeper had a habit of putting out place settings for guests ... and there was only one place setting at the table.

    "What about the other guest?" I asked. "Is he going to be joining us?"

    The innkeeper raised an eyebrow and told me that there had been no other guests in the inn.

    "Oh," I said ... "So were you or your husband up and about at midnight last night?"

    The innkeeper assured me that both she and her husband had been fast asleep. She also told me that they didn't live at the inn but had a home in a neighboring community.

    I was told that I had been the only person in the inn that night.

    Pictured below is the inn I stayed in. I wound up buying it and ran a B&B operation for three years. Many's the time I've had guests ask me about the mysterious stranger who always came in the backdoor and walked up the stairs at midnight. No one ever reported actually seeing the late night visitor. I never saw him during the time I owned this property. I even tried sleeping in every single bedroom on the 2nd floor which made me a bit nervous because I wasn't sure if I really wanted to see an apparition coming through my bedroom door ... but nothing ever happened.

    The Inn at Elizabethville is now a defunct business. I ceased operations in 2005, lived in it another year, and then moved to Arizona to take a teaching job in 2007. The inn was sold in 2014 to a developer who decided to convert this property into 3 apartments.

    Inn.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
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  12. piney13

    piney13 A traveler from afar just passing thru...

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    about the appearance of the Ghost of Samuel:


    Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?” And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.” When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!” And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.” So he said to her, “What is his form?” And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down. Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”


    The Bible clearly states that this is the Ghost of the prophet Samuel. Nowhere in the text does it state that he is otherwise. The spirit is the disembodied essence of the man, and he is recognizable. He is ‘brought up’ from the earth by the witch of Endor, brought from the grave to their presence.

    According to the Old Testament, the concept of a Ghost or disembodies spirit of a deceased person is not only real, it is Scriptural.

    What about the New Testament? A lot of Theological concepts evolve between the Testaments, such as Grace, Forgiveness and a host of others. What about the concept of a Ghost? Does this evolve as well after the teachings of Jesus?

    Almost everyone has heard the story of Jesus walking on water, and if you ever went to Sunday School as a kid I am sure you additionally heard about Peter attempting to do the same and failing. This tale of trust and faith has been used for millennia to teach and encourage Christians. But just before the text talks about Peter’s attempt to come to Jesus on the water the text tells us something unusual:

    Now in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went to them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.” Matthew 14:25-27

    The disciples thought Jesus was a ghost. And they were afraid. Now if ghostly apparitions are all demonic presences as some Christians report, why were the disciples afraid? Just a few chapters earlier Jesus had demonstrated how to exorcise evil spirits and then commissioned the disciples to go all over the land and do so.(Matthew 8:28-34, Matthew 10:1-4) Although not implicit in the text it would seem that they should have had some personal experience in exorcism by themselves. So why were they afraid? Because they believed in Ghosts-the disembodied spirits of the dead who still roam the earth. And not only that, Jesus did not rebuke them for thinking he was a Ghost, instead He just calmed them down and let them know it was Him. If the concept of a disembodied spirit is so unbiblical why did Jesus let his disciples believe such things exist without correction?

    Christian Scripture itself attests to the validity of Ghosts, and supports the idea that they are the disembodied spirits of the dead. Later Bible readers and teachers have read into the text their preconceived notions instead of reading from the texts and basing their ideas from the Scripture itself. Cults do the same thing to make their religious claims seem legit.

    But let no one fool you. Belief in Ghosts is Scriptural.
     
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  13. Aspergirl4hire

    Aspergirl4hire Mage, Sage, Revolutionary

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    No, but I've seen them. So it's not a "belief" per se, but an experience. Much like yours. You tell this well.
     
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  14. Suzanne

    Suzanne Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I cannot answer right now, for I am soon to be going out; but happy to read when I get in and then answer!
     
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  15. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    Same here, as I've previously posted in other threads.
     
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  16. kestrel

    kestrel Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    While I do not believe in what television shows about 'ghosts' tend to promulgate, I have had at least 2 experiences which seemed to imply ghosts exist.
     
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  17. Ste11aeres

    Ste11aeres Moderator Staff Member

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    I just want to say, as a Moderator, that we should not let this thread turn into an argument, religious or otherwise. People can state their own opinions and beliefs, but we do not need to denigrate the opinions and beliefs of others.
    Nothing really bad has been written so far, and no one is in trouble. This was simply a pre-emptive Moderator post.
     
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  18. piney13

    piney13 A traveler from afar just passing thru...

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    Ghost, I have many experiences that I can share, starting as a child. I know you can not talk to the dead.....well you shouldn't because you do not know who that sprite may actually be...
    I was working in a home when the deceased son came to me in a vision with a message for his mother...yea...
    I confirmed his death with details no one else would know with the father...then shared the message with his mother. The looks on these two people were of pure terror..then I proceeded to tell them something about the accident that she suspected and had the most trouble with...that the accident was because of engine failure on a motorcycle at high speed.. she then showed me a letter from the manufacture issuing a recall a year after the accident for this very thing..
    I have seen a union soldier save a small boy from drowning
    I receive dimes from a dime ghost regularly. ( you can Google dime ghost)
    I have pictures that show ghost in ares I have been in
     
  19. piney13

    piney13 A traveler from afar just passing thru...

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    I took this picture myself, look by the tree
    10620675_855592174475298_9015440746993970366_n.jpg
     
  20. Maelstrom

    Maelstrom Magical Pattern Auspie

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    Hi DC1346 ,my sympathies to you on what you went through, perhaps that bad lady was secretly in love with you and felt you reject her or she is just plain mean.

    I'm appalled to hear a minister talk this way about Mormons, I don't agree with Mormon theoligy, but I have nothing bad to say about them. They seem to me to be very lovely Godly folk, we could use more people like them.

    I don't believe in Ghost or floating souls, the Bible clearly states King David sleeps waiting the resurrection. It is okay :) Ste11aeres if you don't agree with me, I understand the power of tradition etcetera. Mael still likes you...he doesn't expect perfect agreement on everything, life is a journey.

    I have had real, (not imaginary), run ins with good and evil angels, and can tell you it is no joking matter, it leaves a mark on you.
    I do believe evil angels do pose as the dead to confuse and bend peoples faith away from the soft footsteps of God. There was a story just the other day of a couple who were into the Ghost chasing thing who committed suicide in their barricaded home. I don't know the true reason for their death, but I do know that any messing about with the dead or spirit world can open the door for some very creepy stuff to happen to you. It is not a joking matter...and I'm not a superstitious person at all...and this stuff still gives me the shivers.
     
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