Do Autistic People Have No Empathy?

[HorrendousHexapod]

I recently came across a video discussing both autistic people and empaths which discusses a study from 2023. In the video, the guy presenting it, a psychologist, says the following:

“Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) fail to develop empathy via mentalization (a Theory of Mind). They feel no guilt or embarrassment (they have no conscience). They avoid being shamed after they have transgressed.”

Is this an accurate assessment of us, or is it misleading?

Here is the video, and here is the study for anyone curious:

https://academic.oup.com/chidev/article/94/4/e181/8255250?login=false

 

[Tired]

All people are different.

 

[TBRS1]

That false belief was trashed around the same time they stopped blaming Ice cube mothers for autism.

When people actually talk WITH (as opposed to talking AT, or ABOUT) autistic people, the claim is immediately exposed as false.

 

[Judge]

Another misconception and stereotype.

We have it, but if not projected visually or verbally in a way that is meaningful to NTs, it can easily be construed as not being there at all, which of course is not true for most if not all of us.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Did they consider the possibility that the atypical responses to the broken toy distress could have been due to seeing through the act or at least detecting something not quite right about the situation? Why would they show guilt if they knew they did not break it?

 

[Judge]

Did they consider the possibility that the atypical responses to the broken toy distress could have been due to seeing through the act or at least detecting something not quite right about the situation?

Nope. They are more likely to default to their own thought process in such an instance. Not ours.

However the reciprocal may often take place as well. Can't deny how puzzling certain NT responses work to me either.

It's just that far more people are so likely to be conducive to the neurological majority than the neurological minority. And like most any social majority, there is a great amount of indifference towards any minority.

Not a matter of whether or not one thinks in such an instance, but rather how they think to begin with.

Such a discussion reminds me of the instances when I tried to explain such dynamics to NTs and they got lost at the outset, unaware that there are other humans who do not share all their thought processes. When indifference is more a case of the norm than the exception. Leaving so many autistic people at a distinct disadvantage given the mathematical disparity of our numbers.

 

[Ken]

At least in my case, that couldn't be further from the truth. I have many PTSD's induced by overwhelming empathy. I literally feel the plight, pain and suffering of others. Although I feel it much stronger for non-human people than humans.

Regardless of suffering, I also feel the emotions of non-human people. However, since I feel very detached and withdrawn from humans, I suppose they see that as not having any empathy.

I think that is because I have always felt detached and foreign from humans, including my family. I've always been an outcast. But, I have always felt connected and accepted by most non-human people. (I avoid the word "animal" because it is a demeaning word.)

 

[AprilR]

Tbh i think it is the so called"normal" people who have selective empathy. I have seen and heard so many disabled or autistic people being treated like trash, abused and it all came from so called "empathetic" people.

Nearly during all the time when i was at school, i made friends with people with learning disabilities and other differences bc everyone else ignored them. I remember particularly during a time in college i had a friend who had albinism. Her so called friends treated her like trash, and when i befriended her they were quick to disappear.

It came to such a point that i started to see those "normal" people as heartless and to "become" normal i also wanted to become heartless and ignore such people.

I should probably not have visited this thread since i am already having a hard time in real life and i don't need any more source of distress. I will just say this, the most heartless, cruel version of me was the one who wanted to be "normal" and ignore my autism, and mimic other people to the point of their cruelty.

 

[Judge]

Tbh i think it is the so called"normal" people who have selective empathy. I have seen and heard so many disabled or autistic people being treated like trash, abused and it all came from so called "empathetic" people.

The most egregious offenders who come to mind were many of the top Nuremberg Trial defendants of 1946. Where prison psychologist Captain G.M. Gilbert having evaluated such defendants, was quoted as saying, "Evil, I think, is the Absence of Empathy".

Interesting reading. I have Dr. Gilbert's book "Nuremberg Diary" on his observations of those times. Though I also sometimes wonder how "evil" one might be with only selective empathy towards their own people may be as well.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I recently came across a video discussing both autistic people and empaths which discusses a study from 2023. In the video, the guy presenting it, a psychologist, says the following:

“Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) fail to develop empathy via mentalization (a Theory of Mind). They feel no guilt or embarrassment (they have no conscience). They avoid being shamed after they have transgressed.”

Is this an accurate assessment of us, or is it misleading?

Here is the video, and here is the study for anyone curious:

https://academic.oup.com/chidev/article/94/4/e181/8255250?login=false

Keep in mind... this is the mind of a small child... not an adult... context is important here. None of us are the same as we were when we were 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 years old. It is highly inaccurate to suggest that "autistics have no empathy"... when, in fact, there are those who are quite unusually high in this trait... and furthermore... what kind of empathy are we speaking of... cognitive?... emotional?

I am 58... and I can say that I will never know my wife of 40 years... at least on a cognitive level. I cannot "read" her at all. Now emotionally, I feel things quite deeply despite not being able to identify many of those feelings (alexithymia) in the moment... but often later.

Whenever, you are reading literature or videos like this... remember, context and perspective are important. Specifics matter.

 

[JayLapointe]

I recently came across a video discussing both autistic people and empaths which discusses a study from 2023. In the video, the guy presenting it, a psychologist, says the following:

“Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) fail to develop empathy via mentalization (a Theory of Mind). They feel no guilt or embarrassment (they have no conscience). They avoid being shamed after they have transgressed.”

Is this an accurate assessment of us, or is it misleading?

Here is the video, and here is the study for anyone curious:

https://academic.oup.com/chidev/article/94/4/e181/8255250?login=false

Yeah that description you gave of the video makes it sound like absolutely garbage misinformation. Autistics are not psychopaths, they have empathy, but it's often a mismatch with neurotypicals. Double Empathy problem, it's essentially boils down to experiencing empathy differently vs not experiencing it at all. It'd be nice some days not to have empathy but sadly I have it.

 

[Judge]

I know in my own case I have been berated in the past for not displaying proper emotion when discussing particular dark/grim issues. But then if it involves technical explanations, yes- I am far more inclined to focus on facts and specifications which may well sound like I was indifferent emotionally speaking, when it really wasn't the case.

A behavioral dynamic that transcends the neurological gap- often involving the duties of medical and law enforcement personnel, whether NT or ND. That to do your job, you must set your emotions aside.

Something that resonated with me in college, surrounded by so many criminal justice majors who loved to share their textbooks with unsuspecting dorm residents. Oh my.

 

[Masked Man]

I don't get any information from Youtube. Anyone can have a Youtube channel and call themselves an expert.

 

[Judge]

I don't get any information from Youtube. Anyone can have a Youtube channel and call themselves an expert.

Or worse, an expert in one field of endeavor who advocates in another where they have far less or no expertise at all. A dynamic that ruined the reputation of a Nobel Prize winner, physicist Dr. William Shockley- before the Internet.

 

[monkeyclogs]

If anything i'm over empathetic. I absorb other people's emotions and get confused as to who's emotions they are. I also struggle to identify the nuances of emotions so I can tell it's a big overwhelming emotion i just don't know what it is or where it's come from. It's really really confusing and why i hate being around other people.

happens with my dog a little too but he's generally happy with life so that's actually a positive!

 

[Judge]

If anything i'm over empathetic. I absorb other people's emotions and get confused as to who's emotions they are. I also struggle to identify the nuances of emotions so I can tell it's a big overwhelming emotion i just don't know what it is or where it's come from. It's really really confusing and why i hate being around other people.

happens with my dog a little too but he's generally happy with life so that's actually a positive!

I know a number of us in this community have seen a fair amount of that right here.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

It sounds like he's suggesting that verbal shutdowns are some intentional choice that he presumes to be an avoidance of some assumed guilt on the part of the ASD individual experiencing a shutdown.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

If the children in the study are akin to psychopaths for not feeling guilty when accused of breaking a toy that they did not break, what are the people who are intentionally playing mind games on a bunch of small children and accusing them of breaking something that they did not in fact break?

 

[Judge]

If the children in the study are akin to psychopaths for not feeling guilty when accused of breaking a toy that they did not break, what are the people who are intentionally playing mind games on a bunch of small children and accusing them of breaking something that they did not in fact break?

Good point. Interpreting real intent when the circumstances only imply something at best.

Reminds me of tragic- yet numerous accounts of suspects who admit to crimes they did not commit. Only because of ruthless and relentless interrogation techniques used by law enforcement. Perhaps the ultimate and prolific example of mind games. Make them to feel as if they were criminals themselves, then condemn them for what they did not do. IMO it speaks poorly for society.

Then again it also reminds of certain religious institutions who ritually exploit the emotion of guilt for their own agenda. Requiring contrition, even when there's nothing there to warrant it. Or AA members being programmed to accept that everything they have done is wrong without exception.

And then there's that saying, "The Tail Wagging The Dog".

This is a really ugly aspect of authority behavior, transcending any number of conditions. All designed by elements of society to show its collective control through "mind games" on the masses.

 

[Outdated]

I recently came across a video discussing both autistic people and empaths which discusses a study from 2023. In the video, the guy presenting it, a psychologist, says the following:

It's an old slur that gets repeated again and again by the types of people that will tell you that autism is caused by vaccines and covid can be cured by drinking bleach.

If I decide I want something I can be very persuasive, in fact I can be one of the smoothest con men you've ever met, specifically because of my empathy. I know what people are feeling inside.

Something I keep repeating again and again though because a lot of people have a very poor understanding of the English language, even if it's the only language they know:

Empathy Does Not Equal Sympathy!

In fact empathy quite often negates sympathy because I can tell pretty bloody quick when someone's trying to manipulate me.