1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Featured Disability, Difference, Or Both/Neither?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by the_tortoise, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. it is a difference

    14 vote(s)
    30.4%
  2. it is a disability

    5 vote(s)
    10.9%
  3. it is both

    24 vote(s)
    52.2%
  4. it is neither/something else (can and will you please explain?)

    3 vote(s)
    6.5%
  1. tducey

    tducey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,895
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,695
    Option 3. I'm pretty adapted but I do consider my Autism to be both a disability and make me a bit different than others.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. the_tortoise

    the_tortoise Lost Soul V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Karma:
    +3,882
    I literally can’t understand this.

    My understanding of what you’ve written here is the exact same understanding I would have if you said to me “Well, blue is this [while you point at a dark shade of blue]” and then immediately after that said “While this on the other hand, is blue [while you point at a light shade of blue]”
     
  3. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    23,006
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +28,505
    I suspect many of us could echo such sentiments. It can be frustrating to know that in one way or many others that one has struggled and stumbled through life, yet at the same time been able to sustain our lives whether nominally speaking or not.

    I've always lamented those traits and behaviors that somehow "held me back" from being my best. I've managed to live independently, but I never considered it "thriving" in any way.

    Regardless of how I choose to define such terms...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +3,941
    While that boundary is also subjective, dark & light are polar opposites...
     
  5. the_tortoise

    the_tortoise Lost Soul V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Karma:
    +3,882
    This does not help me to understand what you said.

    I am just more confused.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    32,086
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Karma:
    +22,229
    This word is LIGHT blue.
    This word is DARK blue.

    Light and dark are variations on a hue.
    Both words are written in blue, but different shades.

    It looked to me as if "handicapped" meant.....having difficulty accomplishing tasks,
    but with struggle/effort, and assistance, the task could be achieved.
    But "disabled" meant, in Crossbreed's post....not having any ability to accomplish the task.
    A matter of degree.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. Autistamatic

    Autistamatic He's just this guy, you know? V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,656
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    Karma:
    +6,969
    Again this handicapped/disability, light/dark blue question is one of perception.
    In the UK for instance, a handicap is a golfing term and nothing more. You wouldn't use it to describe a human being. It's considered highly offensive and belongs back in the dark ages of asylums.

    Disabled isn't a state to be ashamed of but neither is it an absolute. My devotion to honesty and lack of social motivation were regarded by my employers as a disability requiring impossible accomodations. I was nearly fired for being unable to distort the truth. It made me FEEL incredibly disabled that I couldn't function the way they wanted me to. Pesky autistic brain!

    All it took was reframing their attitude and changing the nature of my work so that now my accuracy, truthful reporting and impersonal objectivity are desirable attributes. Same employer, same personal qualities, same autistic brain, just viewed through a different lens.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  8. the_tortoise

    the_tortoise Lost Soul V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    2,015
    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Karma:
    +3,882
    But that’s not what those words actually mean. (“handicapped” and “disabled”....you cant just pick whatever meanings you want or there’s no point to language ....maybe other people can arbitrarily change meanings for specific contexts and purposes and keep track of everyone else’s numerous arbitry meanings and this is just my problem, i dont know - but i can’t, i can’t keep track, it’s hard enough to make words, some moreso than others, mean anything in the first place).

    In my brain those two words translate exactly the same way according to the official more vague definition or the parts of all the definitions i’ve ever heard that overlap......

    And the difference between asd 1 and asd 2 is not that the former can do some things and the latter cant do anything.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. tree

    tree Blue/Green Staff Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    32,086
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Karma:
    +22,229

    I didn't say that was what they meant.
    I was explaining the way the other post presented them.
     
  10. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    23,006
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +28,505
    I just see "disability" itself as a limitation and/or impairment of mental, cognitive, physical and developmental conditions. However to go into further detail inevitably reflects the subjective nature of it all. Where there may or may not be a universal consensus and agreement regarding any number of medical concerns.

    As for the term "handicapped", it seems these days to be largely limited to being a cursory way to describe entitlements like parking spaces, apart from a way to imply a physical or mental disability. A term that has also evolved in being derogatory, depending on who you ask.

    If there was ever a common denominator to so many terms, it would be in how subjective they appear to be.

    Oddly enough the one word I think a lot about is the term "disorder". The noun in a medical sense.

    "A disruption of normal physical or mental functions; a disease or abnormal condition." :(

    synonyms: disease, infection, complaint, problem, condition, dysfunction, affliction, malady, sickness, illness, ailment, infirmity, disability

    Maybe some day the DSM will evolve sufficiently to find another term besides Autism Spectrum Disorder. Perhaps the one thing we can all agree upon is that with so many subjective terms, none of them is really doing us any favors.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +3,941
    What two words would you use to separate the ideas that I am trying to convey?
     
  12. Rectify

    Rectify Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    549
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Karma:
    +741
    I can totally relate to your post @Judge but I also lament the fact that I wasn't diagnosed early (though I understand why) and so I never received help that could have turned that around. Such a shame :/
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  13. Peter Morrison

    Peter Morrison Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    563
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,728
    This is precisely why arguing over terms is silly and wasteful. For some conditions, a handicap and a disability can mean the exact same thing. We compare ability against the "norm". Even the "norm" can be argued endlessly. There are people with no identifiable disabilities or handicaps who will never become neurosurgeons because they can't get through school to learn how to do it. All "abilities" have their limits. At some point, dark blue becomes a bit purple, or seemingly black. Terminology has its qualifiers, and those qualifiers can change with time or an introduction of a scale to rate "ability". The person who passes the tests to become an astronaut may not be able to debone a chicken. Meanwhile, the person who can debone a chicken is working in a factory and has no idea how far the moon is from the earth. Different needs, different abilities. Neither is handicapped or disabled for the jobs being done. Slapping a "pass/fail" label on them is inappropriate. We always compare ourselves to the perceived "majority", but that majority is not without shortcomings and faults of their own. Nobody is perfect, but our world requires that we screen people for sufficient skill to perform tasks. What about patience, kindness, good listener, clever problem solver, respectful, attentive, safety conscious. These are abilities too.

    There doesn't seem to be a name of whatever condition some people have that causes them to commit horrible crimes. We must have run out of labels because these people are not only quirky, they're undiagnosed dangerous. We think we know what we are doing, but we don't. Don't get bogged down in political semantics. I have a few handicaps, which explains why I'll never become a professional race car driver. No experience is the first handicap. It's that simple.

    I know someone who always got "A's" in Latin - can't remember any of it. Handicap? Disability? Records show they learned it, but they didn't. That needs a label also. These afflictions that we discuss require a very fluid, 3-dimensional way of thinking. Though ratings and tests are necessary for some life situations, they are not truth. We want our doctors to have all the best qualities, but very few have even half of the skills that make for a good physician. It's called compromise. Life requires compromise. Everyone on the spectrum has value. Being on the spectrum is a label with very unclear parameters. Hence, the problem with terms and their meaning. The inability to do something, to perform a specific task, doesn't make you less. It makes you more like the rest of the species that functions without a label.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +3,941
    Lack of a clear partition does not imply homogeneity. In practical terms, the amount of money needed to remedy one's deficiencies is a good general proxy for functional severity.
    1. ASD1? < $A
    2. ASD2? > $A, < $B
    3. ASD3? > $B
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    23,006
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +28,505
    I know what you mean. I only stumbled onto my own autism in my mid fifties. Often wondering had I known much earlier what kind of impact it might have made on my life.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +3,941
    I was (finally) diagnosed at age 45. It would have been much sooner (even if an incorrect dx) if I were ASD2 or 3, like two of my children. ASD1 is much more subtle. Haggling over the boundary line does not change that fact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    23,006
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +28,505
    One thing I try to keep into perspective is my age relative to the medical science. That I was simply born too early to be effectively diagnosed, even though my parents were concerned about certain traits at an early age.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Rectify

    Rectify Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    549
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Karma:
    +741
    Right. I know it's not helpful but sometimes I catch myself imagining how different I might be, my life, you knos...if I'd been funnelled into a special interest area and helped more with understanding other people. Anyway, on we go :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    23,006
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Karma:
    +28,505
    Oh yeah. It's very tough to look back on certain social interactions and relationships that went bad without knowing of my own autism at the time. Lots of regrets, but yes there's nothing I can do about them now other than be forward thinking.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  20. Crossbreed

    Crossbreed Neur-D Missionary ☝

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Karma:
    +3,941
    Special education has practical boundaries [between 1 & 2], also.

    California's Autism Crisis

    (One of my ASD1 sons received a 504 plan, but no special ed.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019