Date that has ended in disaster due to possibly breaching unwritten social rules?

[Alaric593]

Happens all the time to people who are NT as well. Most NTs have thicker skin so they get over it quickly. I knew a guy who said he might as well swing at every ball that comes his way because it only takes one hit in a lifetime and it doesn't hurt to miss.

I believe that attitude doesn't come so easily to most of us here. "Missing" feels more like a deeply personal rejection and an invalidation of our being.

I need thicker skin.

Hi there,

I know this may seem like a typical post relating to a bad date gone wrong but please hear me out.

I went on a date today with a guy who is neurotypical (just mentioning this as I'm the one who is on the autistic spectrum). If it makes any difference, both of us are gay. Unfortunately it ended in disaster. Yesterday we had a discussion on whether he wanted it to be friendly meet up or date. I wanted to allow him the freedom to choose (this was probably my first mistake) and he decided on a date. I also asked him if he was into displays of affection such as holding hands and he said yes, he would like to hold hands. I also allowed him this choice as I know some people like it, others don't. I just don't feel it was fair on him if I was solely in charge of laying down the rules. I believe that an equal say is important. I wonder if this was also another mistake I made... can situations like meet ups and dates etc. be treated like a democracy?

During the date, which was at a restaurant, he did not initiate the hand holding which I should have immediately realised that he probably didn't want to. However, I'm not a mind reader. Plus he did not say anything even after I asked repeatedly if he was comfortable. He said yes, he is comfortable. Possibly, my next mistake is that I put my hand on his leg but IN A FRIENDLY WAY. I did not squeeze or creep up his leg. I honestly thought that it's a social expectation after holding hands. Also, I honestly felt as though it was appropriate as it was my way of expressing empathy with regards to the conversation that we were having. It was not meant as an invasion of his space. I really did not mean to make him feel uncomfortable.

Afterwards, we walked around the mall and I held his arm. He did not object even after I repeatedly asked if he's comfortable. Once more, he said yes, he is comfortable.

When I got home, I received a wall of text saying he feels that we aren't suitable as a romantic couple. He's not in the "same realm as me". We should rather stay friends. That he should have spoken up during the date to say that he uncomfortable with me being so touchy and "grabby". In no way shape or form did I grab him.

Despite all of this, I feel like such an idiot. His message makes me feel like I molested him, even though I did nothing of the sort. Is it even worth it to try and stay friends with him? I really don't want to abandon him as everyone makes mistakes. He is genuinely a nice guy though.

I don't know what to do or how to think. I guess it would bring me some degree of comfort knowing if I'm not the only one who has done this before. If anyone has had experiences like this before, please feel free to share them.

I don't know this is the case based on what's written, but he may have used that as an excuse because he knew it was something that would cut the connection.

When it comes to dating, I've not had much of a problem in my life. This is not judgment as everyone has their own level of comfort but to me, I would find it odd if I were asked the questions about PDA and all of that. I would find it even more strange if a date asked me for permission to touch my arm or knee. Im married now but before I was if this happened, I wouldn't go on a 2nd date with such a person. That alludes to me needing consent to do all of that also and there's no passion in that to me and I need that in a relationship.

So it may not have been the actual touching but rather the asking permission they found uncomfortable and since they knew it was important for you to know it was OK, simply said it wasn't after the fact as the means to ensure you understood they didn't want to see you again.

I don't know why they would because to me they should just say the actual reason and I could be wrong but I can see a NT doing that though.

I spent six years in the military and in comparison, civilians, largely NT now that I know what I have, like to have their leg peed on and told it's raining rather than the truth and they reciprocate that with others rather than being honest.

It's quite annoying to me because some social dynamics I do have struggles with and without honest feedback, I can't adjust.

 

[Au Naturel]

Most women want a man who is not overly aggressive. OTOH, they do not want a man who asks verbal permission every step of the way. They want a man who figures out that they're offering permission nonverbally and then takes that liberty. A look in the eye, a seductive smile, an accidental brush that wasn't so accidental.

Do something slight and watch for the response is how most men ask for permission to go further. A quip with innuendo, touch her hand and she touches back, moving to a more private location to talk. Sometimes it is all about reading body language. Rinse and repeat.

Or you decide not to go further - works both ways. There are also successful encounters that don't include seduction. You really can be a person's friend without seducing them but if seduction is what you're aiming for in the long run, building a platonic relationship and trying to shift the terms at some point may feel like betrayal.

Generally, you don't ask, "May I?" unless you already know you can. And then you are doing it as a gesture and not for information.

Seduction is a two-way street. Some are good at it while others are clumsy. Asking for literal verbal permission each step of the way is mechanical, while romance is organic and fluid. It can be interpreted as a sign of timidity and cluelessness.

There's a real problem for us Aspies because we usually suck at the nonverbal stuff, the implied stuff, and the situationally dependent stuff - as well as being genuinely timid from all the times we've been kicked around.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

There's a real problem for us Aspies because we usually suck at the nonverbal stuff, the implied stuff, and the situationally dependent stuff - as well as being genuinely timid from all the times we've been kicked around.

Damn! You aced that. One starts realizing that just about the time one matures enough to seek connection and a relationship. I ended up studying the nonverbal stuff just to be able to grow. It helped, but the big part in meeting people was changing my attitude(s).

 

[Au Naturel]

Damn! You aced that. One starts realizing that just about the time one matures enough to seek connection and a relationship. I ended up studying the nonverbal stuff just to be able to grow. It helped, but the big part in meeting people was changing my attitude(s).

When I was 16 I don't think a girl would have chosen me for a date over a rabid coyote. Over the years I figured out that I needed to understand and meet other people's needs and stop acting so needy myself.

If you're a stranger in a strange land, do not stubbornly refuse to try to understand the language. The natives aren't going to learn yours.

There are also practical things one can do to be more attractive. Clothes, physical fitness, learning pop culture, hair, and even makeup. I think a lack of executive function gets in the way of this or maybe it is the sense of hopelessness we build up over the years. "It's not going to help, so why even try?"

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

When I was 16 I don't think a girl would have chosen me for a date over a rabid coyote. Over the years I figured out that I needed to understand and meet other people's needs and stop acting so needy myself.

If you're a stranger in a strange land, do not stubbornly refuse to try to understand the language. The natives aren't going to learn yours.

There are also practical things one can do to be more attractive. Clothes, physical fitness, learning pop culture, hair, and even makeup. I think a lack of executive function gets in the way of this or maybe it is the sense of hopelessness we build up over the years. "It's not going to help, so why even try?"

I've said this before that Without even knowing I was ASD, I went on a program of self help. And about that time really started enjoying my interests.what really diminished my sense of hopelessness was first contacting my future spouse. I dated a little before then, but nothing worked out, so I decided to have no expectations and just enjoy the trip with her. Little did I know that she appreciated my interest in the outdoors and natural history. The trip, in itself, was wonderful, and I was not expecting to get back home in a relationship with her.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Like you I had no idea, about ASD, let my personality shine through quirks and all. It worked expected to be single for a long time, Really surprised how popular I am among the women. The clues were always there, so much for nice guys always finish last.