Can Aspies Be Codependents?

[Jonn]

I felt like my asd father was emotionally dependent on my NT mother for many years. I never liked their relationship even though i love both of them dearly and even wished for them to divorce many times.

I think i also become dependent on people too fast (in friendships)in the past. Bc of that i dont want a relationship, because i know it will not be healthy.

After the break-up with my first GF, I ran away from relationships for many years.

I managed to find some self worth in myself and now i can put distance between me and other people.

Being single develops strengths that couples don't possess.
I am convinced of this.

 

[Jonn]

Human adversity can create human growth, but not always. So, I agree with you, Hypnalis, "only" is not an accurate word to be used in this context. Close. But not "only."

I remember a AspieCentral.com member saying that she only wanted to "ventilate" and not really change anything as a result of her adversities. She, in essence, didn't desire to move past the challenges that she faced. She desired to remain stuck and merely ventilate (complain that her stuck points wouldn't remedy themselves without her doing anything). She wanted her problems to go away without any effort on her part.

Is that not just an assumption on your part, or did she actually say that?

In the meantime, that ventilating woman remains "back there" in her stuck-adversities, complaining, and sadly not helping herself find a better way. . . .

Is this hyperbole or fact?

There are times ppl need to be heard before they can progress.
Being stubbornly firm in a position, to establish one's independence from outside pressure, is necessary, in some instances.
I am talking from personal experience here.

The self-actualisation process does confront/involve seeming cul de sacs, from time to time.
There are times when ppl act like snarling dogs when pressured into a corner.
Putting more pressure on these individuals can simply worsen the problem and delay the growth process.
It did with me.

 

[Jonn]

I've known a couple who were in bad relationships, but were afraid to leave because they felt they would have no relationships at all then, so they stayed in abusive co-dependent relationships. Hard to watch.

This is one of the benefits of being single.
Being resilient in being single.

 

[Coxhere]

Have you noticed how many young ppl dismiss the wisdom of older individuals?
In context:
Perhaps this is simply part of "The Human Condition"?


Observation/experience supports this.

You've written, "Perhaps this (dismissing the wisdom of the elderly is simply part of 'The Human Condition'?"
I don't think this is totally true. In part, perhaps but I think of how the Japanese value the wisdom of their elders. Here in Ecuador the elderly are held in higher regard than the elderly in the U.S. and the Western, "first world" countries. So, I think it's a cultural thing. I also think that in the U. S. the wisdom and values of the elderly are ignored because the bottom line is the almighty dollar. Most elderly Americans are discounted because they're no longer earning money and they're no longer competing in the economic, capitalistic culture of cutthroats. This is hardly a cultural given throughout the entire world.

 

[Coxhere]

Is that not just an assumption on your part, or did she actually say that?


Is this hyperbole or fact?

There are times ppl need to be heard before they can progress.
Being stubbornly firm in a position, to establish one's independence from outside pressure, is necessary, in some instances.
I am talking from personal experience here.

The self-actualisation process does confront/involve seeming cul de sacs, from time to time.
There are times when ppl act like snarling dogs when pressured into a corner.
Putting more pressure on these individuals can simply worsen the problem and delay the growth process.
It did with me.

Jonn, did you, perhaps, read the thread that the woman generated and after complaining about everything, saying that she didn't want to change herself or anything else? She actually said to leave her alone, that she wanted no one's support in getting out of the morass that she'd decided she wanted to be in, and that she was happy ventilating and wanted nothing else. The thread finally petered out because she said she wasn't going to listen to anyone's comments where they offered assistance. I thought you participated in that thread. No?

Years ago, I had a poster that was an ocean view with rocks that had been eroded away. There was a large, central rock that had a hole eroded through it. The caption said, "The way is always through when there's no way around." The memory of this poster came to me when reading your comment, "The self-actualisation process does confront/involve seeming cul de sacs. . . ." The word "seemingly" is the key here. There's always a way through if we are the ocean that wears down the rock and creates a hole, a way through.

 

[Jonn]

You've written, "Perhaps this (dismissing the wisdom of the elderly is simply part of 'The Human Condition'?"
I don't think this is totally true. In part, perhaps but I think of how the Japanese value the wisdom of their elders. Here in Ecuador the elderly are held in higher regard than the elderly in the U.S. and the Western, "first world" countries. So, I think it's a cultural thing. I also think that in the U. S. the wisdom and values of the elderly are ignored because the bottom line is the almighty dollar. Most elderly Americans are discounted because they're no longer earning money and they're no longer competing in the economic, capitalistic culture of cutthroats. This is hardly a cultural given throughout the entire world.

Good point, butt...
What about the phenomenon of: "Arrogance of youth" and "The Dunning-Kruger effect"?

There is an anecdote that goes like this:

“When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.” -- Mark Twain

 

[Jonn]

Jonn, did you, perhaps, read the thread that the woman generated and after complaining about everything, saying that she didn't want to change herself or anything else? .

Obviously not.
Could you provide a link?

She actually said to leave her alone, that she wanted no one's support in getting out of the morass that she'd decided she wanted to be in, and that she was happy ventilating and wanted nothing else. The thread finally petered out because she said she wasn't going to listen to anyone's comments where they offered assistance. I thought you participated in that thread. No?

If I did, I have forgotten.

Over the years, I have come across quite a number of ppl pleading not to give advice.
The desire was emotional support, not an aspie male problem-solving event.

On that other website, rules were introduced specifically to prevent "helpful" comments.
The Forum on that other website was called: The Haven.

Years ago, I had a poster that was an ocean view with rocks that had been eroded away. There was a large, central rock that had a hole eroded through it. The caption said, "The way is always through when there's no way around." The memory of this poster came to me when reading your comment, "The self-actualisation process does confront/involve seeming cul de sacs. . . ." The word "seemingly" is the key here. There's always a way through if we are the ocean that wears down the rock and creates a hole, a way through.

Well, in my example, there was no way around.
Being belligerent was ultimately a dead end.
Ppl have to throw out that mindset and establish a new one that would allow them to move forward.

In my case, I eventually adopted a more stoic approach to my situation, but it was quite a complex process.
The intimidation I experienced only made me more dogged.
It was only when the harassment mitigated that I began to heal.

 

[Coxhere]

Obviously not.
Could you provide a link?


If I did, I have forgotten.

Over the years, I have come across quite a number of ppl pleading not to give advice.
The desire was emotional support, not an aspie male problem-solving event.

On that other website, rules were introduced specifically to prevent "helpful" comments.
The Forum on that other website was called: The Haven.


Well, in my example, there was no way around.
Being belligerent was ultimately a dead end.
Ppl have to throw out that mindset and establish a new one that would allow them to move forward.

In my case, I eventually adopted a more stoic approach to my situation, but it was quite a complex process.
The intimidation I experienced only made me more dogged.
It was only when the harassment mitigated that I began to heal.

The best way to support someone who wants to "ventilate" (complain) would be to not respond at all, just to move onto another thread. "Oh, I support your staying stuck and miserable." I don't remember anyone responding in that way. Everybody seemed disturbed by her post and wanted her to "get out of" her stuck point(s).

". . . .establish a new one (mind set) that would allow them to move forward." to me seems to be a way to overcome a "dead end."

I don't remember where the thread is located and really don't want to go back there and re-read any of it. It was so demoralizing. I think that most want to move forward and overcome their stuck points, their obstacles.

 

[Jonn]

The best way to support someone who wants to "ventilate" (complain) would be to not respond at all, just to move onto another thread. "Oh, I support your staying stuck and miserable."

That is a misrepresentation of what I was saying.
Ppl would be supportive by acknowledging her emotional pain.

Ppl want to be heard about their plight.
I have had the desire myself, so I have empathy for ppl in this situation via personal experience.

I don't remember anyone responding in that way. Everybody seemed disturbed by her post and wanted her to "get out of" her stuck point(s).

". . . .establish a new one (mind set) that would allow them to move forward." to me seems to be a way to overcome a "dead end."

I don't remember where the thread is located and really don't want to go back there and re-read any of it. It was so demoralizing. I think that most want to move forward and overcome their stuck points, their obstacles.

That is unfortunate.
I would have liked to have read what she and others had said.

Do you remember who the poster was?
Perhaps I could do a search.

 

[Hypnalis]

Have you noticed how many young ppl dismiss the wisdom of older individuals?

Yes IMO it's "human normal".

Young people need to be skeptical, because they get taught a lot of stuff that isn't true, or are guidelines rather than simple "always true" rules. But they don't know how to filter what they hear, because learning a sensible degree of skepticism, and how to test all the guidance they receive, is one of the things they can only learn through experience /lol.

So even young NT's are swimming in a sea of lies and uncertainty.

It's even worse for us OFC, but clearly we're not exposed to more lies. IMO we just deal with this in a distinctly different way that's less effective, especially early in our lives.

 

[Hypnalis]

Do you remember who the poster was?
Perhaps I could do a search.

I do - DM me.

 

[Jonn]

The best way to support someone who wants to "ventilate" (complain) would be to not respond at all,

I think I found the thread you are referring to.
And, no, I didn't post there.

 

[Coxhere]

That is a misrepresentation of what I was saying.
Ppl would be supportive by acknowledging her emotional pain.

Ppl want to be heard about their plight.
I have had the desire myself, so I have empathy for ppl in this situation via personal experience.


That is unfortunate.
I would have liked to have read what she and others had said.

Do you remember who the poster was?
Perhaps I could do a search.

I apologize for misrepresenting what you meant, Jonn. I misunderstand things more than I want to admit. I think it's part of being on the Spectrum. And you are correct, also, in saying that a human being needs to be heard and supported even though others may think hearing what is said is difficult. I stand corrected. Thanks for helping me see my error. I'll do better next time.

 

[Coxhere]

I do - DM me.

Hypnalis, thank you for responding.

 

[Coxhere]

I think I found the thread you are referring to.
And, no, I didn't post there.

Okay. I'm sorry for my misunderstandings regarding my postings regarding this situation. I really do want to be understanding and supportive. It is positive and growth-producing for me to admit to and apologize for errors.

 

[Coxhere]

Yes IMO it's "human normal".

Young people need to be skeptical, because they get taught a lot of stuff that isn't true, or are guidelines rather than simple "always true" rules. But they don't know how to filter what they hear, because learning a sensible degree of skepticism, and how to test all the guidance they receive, is one of the things they can only learn through experience /lol.

So even young NT's are swimming in a sea of lies and uncertainty.

It's even worse for us OFC, but clearly we're not exposed to more lies. IMO we just deal with this in a distinctly different way that's less effective, especially early in our lives.

I agree that, upon reaching the age of abstract reasoning, a human being needs to be analytical and re-process the things that one has been told as gospel truth during childhood. But do you think that one can be both skeptical and respectful? I know that I've not been in every instance. But it seems that cultures like the Japanese do both. Maybe that's changing with Japanese young people?