Atheist vows to affix Satanic symbols next to Nativity and Menorah if displays stay in public park

[Autistamatic]

@sidd851 I feel you brother, and I share your apprehension. Whether we as individuals espouse a religious faith or not, we have a duty to one another that is often lost in the noise. Were I to be so minded, I would pray for us all to see and hear beyond that and save ourselves and our home. We can but hope.

 

[Nauti]

If we are discussing purported "fact", I would say, that, what's been peddled through the nativity story as part of this (traditionally, although not in my part of the world) midwinter festival/celebration, is the lie that the alleged historical figure "Jesus" was born at this time of year. This has no evidence to support it.

This is my issue, that what it actually is, is a pagan celebration "Yule" that was, in itself, a very controversial and at times contested celebration, throughout our not-very-distant past.

That this "Yule" was highjacked by Christianity, has far more to do with politics, than it does with an historical event of a rebellious spiritual leader who stood up to the Roman rule and the profiteering Jewish hierarchy of his time.

I like to assign my own "fact-based" meaning to the event. To me, the nativity story is simply a symbolic one; a celebration of the basic building block of society and civilization itself, the family unit - man, woman and the birth of a family through procreation, the birth of a child. It's a beautiful and wonderful symbolic story of adversity, astrology, biology, healthy rebellion and multidimensional awareness, paranormal activity and joy.

I don't believe the historical figure we know of was born at that time, but I also don't believe that those stories came out of nowhere. I don't believe that early Christians were getting themselves publicly murdered for no good reason, or that their faith was baseless.

I'd like to learn more about the pre-Christian yule festival and get back to a more fact based informed family get together.

Currently, my family is in total flux about Christmas, but I always use it as an excuse to lavish my children with gifts and luxurious food. I never taught them any lies about it though, as, for me, finding out I'd been lied to about it, as a child, was a time of a deep sense of betrayal.

The children born to me are now part of a "broken.family". Their father and I separated 8 years ago and he maintained primary care of our then teens and young adults and he never bothered to celebrate the event, at all (he, I believe, is also on the spectrum).

Many of our children have a lot of sadness and disappointment about the event so I'm now trying to remedy that, and instead of "Christmas" those members and I will get together for "Solstice".

I believe in trying my best to remedy and repair a much maligned and oftentime damaged moderntime unit of society, that of the family, and that is what is meaningful to me about the nativity connection and the day of 25 of December.

What this proposed inverted cross gesture signifies? Simply some teenage type rebellion against the "Mummy and Daddy" State/Religious political Romanization of what was once a time of cheer and much meat eating in the middle of the coldest time of year.

Not without validity or merit, necessarily, just a symbolic gesture of a dissident. I quite admire dissidents, often, but "Satanism" simply does not impress me at all.

 

[Autistamatic]

I'd like to learn more about the pre-Christian yule festival and get back to a more fact based informed family get together

Many of the tropes of contemporary Christmas have their origins in the Roman Sun worshipping religion of Mithraism. That's a good place to start

 

[MrSpock]

I think this guy somewhat misguided, but fully sympathize, and would do the same myself if I were confident that it would be understood in the way that it is meant. Of course, I'm assuming that I'm on the same page with this guy, and if not will in any case play the devil's advocate's advocate.

There is a supposed equality of people's different religious or areligious viewpoints, and it is under the protection of this that these symbols are put up in the first place, they are assuming freedom of religion. If there really is to be freedom of religion, then they are out of line by being offended by the symbols of any other religion. If they are not wrong to be offended by symbols of Satanism, then they ought to EXPECT all non-Christians to be offended by public display of Christian symbols. This hypocrisy would be ever so glaringly obvious to you, if you had not been brought up surrounded by nativity scenes and been normalized to it.

I'm assuming that we are in agreement that different religions are to be treated equally, if anyone would like to argue otherwise I'd address that elsewhere. If religions are all equal, then we must ask if it's okay to display religious symbols in public or not. If yes, then a pentagram should be okay. If your instinctive reaction is that this religious symbol is not okay, your instincts ought to be applied equally to all religious symbols.

I am not so much offended by the religious symbols themselves as by the way that those who put up these symbols do so while taking for granted a double standard to such a great extent that they cannot even be made to see that it's a double standard when two 'equal' symbols are placed side by side and given such very obviously different treatment. It screams a lack of self-examination, a lack of critical thinking, a willing blindness no different in nature from the double standard that once made it so obvious that the rights of black people did not matter, because they were black. It's okay for Christianity to be given priority, because it's Christianity, duh.

But this tends to go over people's heads, particularly when left unexplained. I don't imagine that I will convert many people who read this, but I do very much imagine that it has a better chance of doing so than what the protagonist from the OP is doing. A better percentage chance, but I doubt I'll get his audience.

 

[Nauti]

I would have thought a more sensical symbol to choose would perhaps be a Buddha statue, if one really wanted to represent an atheistic world view.

 

[oregano]

Many of the tropes of contemporary Christmas have their origins in the Roman Sun worshipping religion of Mithraism. That's a good place to start

The Emperor Aurelian converted to Mithraism and made it the empire's official faith in 274 CE. Christianity was still considered blasphemous, and adherents were hunted by the imperial state. Christian leaders were forced to align their celebrations with pagan ones, and graft pagan rituals onto their own, in order to save the lives of converts.

For two centuries Christianity considered it evil to celebrate Christ's birth, likely because Rome turned the birthdays of noted emperors into official holidays. Mithraism forced their hand, and Christianity had to institute a "Mass of Christ" on the same day as the birth of the god Mithras-December 25. Christian leaders claimed that instead of celebrating the birthday of the sun, they celebrated the birth of He Who made it. (Interestingly, in English-a language which evolved during the Dark Ages and under Christian rule-the words "sun" and "son" differ by only a vowel.)

---------

In the early American colonies, Christmas was not celebrated, with preachers pointing to pre-Mithraic doctrine for justification. Not until after the American Civil War, in the early 1870s, was Christmas celebrated, and from the beginning it was a distinctly secular holiday, promoted by the big department stores in New York City as a way to drum up sales by promoting the giving of factory-made gift items.

In America, Christmas was never really about Christ, but about Santa Claus, who was turned from the sponsor of love affairs that he was in the Old World to a happy, rotund elf who left factory-made toys for children by the family fireplace.

German immigrants during the Gilded Age switched the gift location to a temporary pine tree on the other side of the room from the fire, likely to prevent embers from igniting the gifts. That also fit with the belief of Communists of the era that the "nobility" of farm life was yielding to the filth and overcrowding of cities, an idea responsible for urban parks such as Central Park in NYC.

 

[All-Rounder]

I would have thought a more sensical symbol to choose would perhaps be a Buddha statue, if one really wanted to represent an atheistic world view.

Cept a true atheist wouldn't buy into all the buddhist mythical things that are so much like other religions, afterlife punishments and 'outer body' junk proven wrong by science. Id likely just place a pic of Hawking and one of his atheist quotes, or better yet a darkmatter2525 quote and a screenshot of one of his YouTube animated videos [my obsession with him is greater since his son has aspergers... wonder if he has it himself] .

 

[Autistamatic]

Cept a true atheist wouldn't buy into all the buddhist mythical things that are so much like other religions, afterlife punishments and 'outer body' junk proven wrong by science. Id likely just place a pic of Hawking and one of his atheist quotes, or better yet a darkmatter2525 quote and a screenshot of one of his YouTube animated videos.

Yeah but Buddhists ARE atheists The Buddha is not a god, there are no gods in Buddhism. It is a philosophy of self and one's connection to the world. There are no prayers and no-one to idolise except an enlightened man who set an example for others. You can disagree with their opinions but you cannot claim they are theists.

 

[All-Rounder]

What this proposed inverted cross gesture signifies? Simply some teenage type rebellion against the "Mummy and Daddy" State/Religious political Romanization of what was once a time of cheer and much meat eating in the middle of the coldest time of year.

Not without validity or merit, necessarily, just a symbolic gesture of a dissident. I quite admire dissidents, often, but "Satanism" simply does not impress me at all.

The only way to provoke the adverse feeling he probably got from the xmas decor was to place something christans are getting strong adverse feelings toward. Which is te devil. So basically he revenged. I think that is why he is so close to satanic things and tattoes them on himself, as a means of freedom and returning 'favor' to the biased state as a minority. I think the man is really frustrated and angered/fed up.

 

[All-Rounder]

Yeah but Buddhists ARE atheists The Buddha is not a god, there are no gods in Buddhism. It is a philosophy of self and one's connection to the world. There are no prayers and no-one to idolise except an enlightened man who set an example for others. You can disagree with their opinions but you cannot claim they are theists.

Yeah i know, forgot to say.

Goes similarly to the asian zodiacs and such superstition, tradition with drawings. I loathe superstition but I notice some ppl do it without believing in it but its kinda silly and risky to spread it. Anyhow ppl will believe what ever even if itd stop existing, maybe invent their own beliefs, its not uncommon.

 

[Autistamatic]

Yeah i know, forgot to say.

Goes similarly to the asian zodiacs and such superstition, tradition with drawings. I loathe superstition but I notice some ppl do it without believing in it but its kinda silly and risky to spread it. Anyhow ppl will believe what ever even if itd stop existing, maybe invent their own beliefs, its not uncommon.

I'm a dyed in the wool atheist. I was brought up without religion, though I was exposed to it. I have read extensively about many religions, including translations of their holy texts. I have had civil discussions with many people from multiple faiths and I am still an atheist.
I do respect however than Buddhists, Taoists and a few others are not religious but they have beliefs influenced by an established system. That system is somewhat spiritual in nature and different from my own but it is still valid. If I were to be forced to label myself I think the closest I could get is "scientific pragmatist" but that makes me as much a follower of an established system as the rest. I cannot verify the entirety of scientific endeavour and investigation personally so I must take a majority of it on faith.
This is why I do not disrespect people of faith or those who follow philosophical pioneers. I recognise that my pragmatism is based on evidence I can only read about and personally experience in a distant fashion. I have faith in what I can see and experience. I have faith in others I believe do the same. It is still faith though.

 

[GrownupGirl]

Near the end of November I happened to walk by a house where someone was putting up a sign that said "HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS" in big letters. Although I know that Dec 25th isn't really Jesus's birthday, I just went on my way.

Anyway, the guy is really giving atheists a bad name. In fact one of the stereotypes is that atheists are Satan worshippers. But they don't believe in Satan anymore than they believe in God.

 

[All-Rounder]

I'm a dyed in the wool atheist. I was brought up without religion, though I was exposed to it. I have read extensively about many religions, including translations of their holy texts. I have had civil discussions with many people from multiple faiths and I am still an atheist.
I do respect however than Buddhists, Taoists and a few others are not religious but they have beliefs influenced by an established system. That system is somewhat spiritual in nature and different from my own but it is still valid. If I were to be forced to label myself I think the closest I could get is "scientific pragmatist" but that makes me as much a follower of an established system as the rest. I cannot verify the entirety of scientific endeavour and investigation personally so I must take a majority of it on faith.
This is why I do not disrespect people of faith or those who follow philosophical pioneers. I recognise that my pragmatism is based on evidence I can only read about and personally experience in a distant fashion. I have faith in what I can see and experience. I have faith in others I believe do the same. It is still faith though.

Did you know darkmatter has an autistic son? Makes me twice as interested. I wish i could see him or something made by him but I don't even know how old the son is.

 

[Joshua the Writer]

Okay, so this dude is offended because such a fake, satanic religion is not being represented... By putting up an upside-down cross... Which is a symbol for Saint Peter?

Yeah, this dude is just a nutty vandal who is just trying to be edgy. I am not going to even try to take this type of person seriously.

Not only is he a vandal, he is a vandal that didn't do any of his research, since, as I said, the upside-down cross is Saint Peter's cross, a Christian symbol.

 

[Destination Unknown]

Our town has already been through the same situation 15 years ago. The town had to put up signs saying they don't condone any of the displays in the park, and the atheist was allowed to put up his display. The locals were not tolerant of his display, which was repeatedly vandalized, and after a few years it finally sunk in that his display wasn't going to stay up for more than a few days.

 

[GCat3000]

Well in my opinion acting like everyone in town is a Jew or Christian is pretty offensive also. I mean in Israel Palestinian Christians and Muslims and other non-Jewish Israelis have to say in the pledge of allegiance or national anthem how they are a Jew and there is continual outrage due to this when the anthem is played.

Imagine you Christian People in this thread had to see Jewish Symbols everywhere and couldn't even practice or state your beliefs publicly.

It is very much like being a Non-Jew in Israel to be an Atheist here!

 

[Joshua the Writer]

If we are discussing purported "fact", I would say, that, what's been peddled through the nativity story as part of this (traditionally, although not in my part of the world) midwinter festival/celebration, is the lie that the alleged historical figure "Jesus" was born at this time of year. This has no evidence to support it.

This is my issue, that what it actually is, is a pagan celebration "Yule" that was, in itself, a very controversial and at times contested celebration, throughout our not-very-distant past.

That this "Yule" was highjacked by Christianity, has far more to do with politics, than it does with an historical event of a rebellious spiritual leader who stood up to the Roman rule and the profiteering Jewish hierarchy of his time.

I believe that Yule was, in fact, highjacked by Christianity. The Christian leaders had no right to essentially take one religion's holiday and alter it to their view.

 

[Pappy Boyington]

If we are discussing purported "fact", I would say, that, what's been peddled through the nativity story as part of this (traditionally, although not in my part of the world) midwinter festival/celebration, is the lie that the alleged historical figure "Jesus" was born at this time of year. This has no evidence to support it.


I don't believe the historical figure we know of was born at that time, but I also don't believe that those stories came out of nowhere. I don't believe that early Christians were getting themselves publicly murdered for no good reason, or that their faith was baseless.

Just as many Christmas traditions were hijacked from Yule, the date, Dec 25th is borrowed as well.

It comes from the Roman pagan holiday of Sol Invictus which is the first day the sun can be observed with the naked eye to be returning from its journey south.

Given that Jesus is crucified and returns from the dead, there is a parallel with that mythology.

 

[AGXStarseed]

Red from "Overly Sarcastic Productions" actually does an interesting job of talking about how the Christmas we know came to be.

Here's the video in question:

 

[AGXStarseed]

Red from "Overly Sarcastic Productions" actually does an interesting job of talking about how the Christmas we know came to be.

Here's the video in question:

A bit of a follow up to the Christmas video - this time going into more detail regarding the "Wild Hunt" that may have inspired the image of a certain old man in red resembling Odin flying across the night sky.
(On a funny note - at least to me - I do get a giggle out of the fact that Red is doing this as a Halloween special episode, while the previous one where she first mentioned the Wild Hunt was a Christmas special episode).