at wit's end with Aspie friend

[ZaphodsCloset]

BG: Aspie friend is early-50s, is educated, has a job in a field he's really good at.


I don't want to withdraw from the friendship, as this guy has many traits I very much value in a friend. But he can't seem to filter/self-edit, and his empathy often seems non-existent, making communication a strain. It's not stuff I can just "put up with" or try to be more understanding about, for the sake of his good traits. The negative habits *exhaust* me.

If I write a three-line e-mail, he replies with screens and screens of solid text. I got him to put his replies on a private blog, bc his mails were so overwhelming I couldn't see through all the filler and rambling to any meaning, and saving them to read later meant 3 or 4 more showed up before I could get back to first one. Now that he puts them in blog format, at least I can keep track of what I've replied to in some way. But then he writes screen-long responses to my two-line replies.

When I make requests for reducing the sheer volume of his writing, he takes requests literally in ways that seem to intentionally miss the point. For example, he edited his writing some, then wrote paragraphs complaining how much time and effort he put into editing. I asked him to take it on faith that I *know* he's putting effort into writing less; finally I asked him to never mention time and effort of editing again. What does he do? The same whinging paragraphs, but writes <unmentionable> and <unmentionable> in place of "time" and "effort." Is this Asperger's or just outright aggression?

I've suggested he try employing pointers from _Elements of Style_; as far as I know, he hasn't even looked it up, but just keeps trying to do his best without any new tools.

He's also been rude to my boyfriend, who not only supports my efforts to help this friend avoid complete isolation but invites the guy over for movie nights on his own. BF and I have both had long periods of painful loneliness, and it's amazing what a profound difference a little kindness from a thoughtful person can make. Tina Dico's song "One" sums it pretty well. But there's a limit to my patience and energy, and right now I'm not sure whether continued contact is just reinforcing the guy's idea that there's not much wrong with how he interacts socially and communicates.


Pointers? I let a lot of annoyance and irritation build up to the point where now I'm pretty steamed, and as a result sounding (and feeling) very harsh.

 

[Ereth]

Hello, Zaphod! I understand your frustration. Communication is difficult sometimes, especially when one party tends to think literally.

If I write a three-line e-mail, he replies with screens and screens of solid text. I got him to put his replies on a private blog, bc his mails were so overwhelming I couldn't see through all the filler and rambling to any meaning, and saving them to read later meant 3 or 4 more showed up before I could get back to first one. Now that he puts them in blog format, at least I can keep track of what I've replied to in some way. But then he writes screen-long responses to my two-line replies.

When I make requests for reducing the sheer volume of his writing, he takes requests literally in ways that seem to intentionally miss the point. For example, he edited his writing some, then wrote paragraphs complaining how much time and effort he put into editing. I asked him to take it on faith that I *know* he's putting effort into writing less; finally I asked him to never mention time and effort of editing again. What does he do? The same whinging paragraphs, but writes <unmentionable> and <unmentionable> in place of "time" and "effort." Is this Asperger's or just outright aggression?

Have you tried giving him examples of the kinds of e-mails (format, etc.) you want him to send? It sounds like he may not know how to limit his tendency to ramble, which is why editing frustrates him so. Regarding the censorship, I don't know if it's his Asperger's or aggression or some combination of both. But it's entirely possible he took you extremely literally when you said "Don't mention it." I think you may have to rephrase your instructions to something more explicit, like, "Please don't write about your difficulties with editing in this e-mail."

I've suggested he try employing pointers from Elements of Style . As far as I know, he hasn't even looked it up, but just keeps trying to do his best without any new tools.

Oh, goodness. We Aspies can be very set in our ways. Routines are comfortable, and new things often terrify us. Your friend may not understand which writing tips from that very excellent book to use. Or he may feel it's unnecessary. Either way, if you want him to consult the book, you may have to physically give it to him yourself.

He's also been rude to my boyfriend, who not only supports my efforts to help this friend avoid complete isolation but invites the guy over for movie nights on his own. BF and I have both had long periods of painful loneliness, and it's amazing what a profound difference a little kindness from a thoughtful person can make. Tina Dico's song "One" sums it pretty well. But there's a limit to my patience and energy, and right now I'm not sure whether continued contact is just reinforcing the guy's idea that there's not much wrong with how he interacts socially and communicates.

I wouldn't call his interactions "wrong"; he just needs guidance. You haven't described how he's been rude to your boyfriend, so I can't offer specific advice, but giving your friend clear directions on what constitutes rudeness may help.

I'm sure your friend is very grateful for your companionship and help. It may be that he just doesn't know how to express it in a way you understand.

 

[Christy]

Hi Zaphodscloset,

One of the things about being an aspie is that we get misunderstood a lot. This is particularly difficult with the written word because you are not there is to see how the other person is receiving it as they read it. I've seen how this can drive an aspie to write volumes in order to divert potential misunderstandings when they write!

Unfortunately this in itself seems to be misunderstood hence compounding the issue, that the aspie can't communicate effectively. If their predisposition is to try and explain their position, then you'll likely get an even larger wall of text.

I don't know if this is what is happening with your friend, but it could be this behaviour is driven by insecurity. How i deal with this is to reassure the other I am not going anywhere, and then I persist with them on the one topic until they are satisfied I understand what they are saying. The effort involved in doing this can be large, however the reward is a trust and understanding between the two of you such that they relax, and the volume of text reduces. If they are comfortable you will interpret what they are saying in light of who you know their character to be (for example, you know they care, so you choose not to get offended when their comments seem uncaring), or they know you will ask if how you are interpreting it doesn't seem right, or you won't get offended when they try and correct a misunderstanding, then the wall of text may reduce.

It also helps to have a chat function where you can have immediate feedback that the communication was effective.

Also, try saying back to him in your own words what he is trying to convey. I know this is offensive to some people (I've been accused of putting words in other people's mouths before), but it also shows a willingness to listen and understand, and it gives the other an opportunity to correct anything you've got wrong.

Of course I made big assumptions as to the motive of your friend, but maybe this will help.

Christy

 

[Ylva]

Well, the bit with "unmentionable" sounds like aggression, or at least it would have been if I had done it, but that doesn't mean it is from him… I suggest you ask him. If his rudeness to your bf is just things like taking questions literally, directness seems to be the way to go.

Maybe ask him to summarise each letter in a paragraph, under the title "summary" in bold letters.

Keep in mind that a blank expression or even what seems like a surly or dismissive one may not really be one. Often when my father accuses me of looking grumpy it's often either that I have a weird taste in my mouth or that I am stressed out about something that's unrelated to my father, and I guess it could be similar with your friend.

 

[ZaphodsCloset]

Thank you all, *so much.*

Ereth, thanks for pointing out my misguided use of the word "wrong."

I haven't given him specific examples of e-mail styles that work. Indeed, I'm wondering just how much is enough, and how much is too much? Starts to feel like I'm lecturing the guy and creating rules, when I'm not socially suave myself.

Christy, I'd never thought of insecurity. In spoken communication, he seems to walk on eggshells since I blasted him about 18 months ago for non-stop talking. (6+ hours, while walking around the city, just days after we'd met.) Now he bites his tongue around me, for the sake of any company at all, I guess.

To paraphrase you, reassure him I'm not going anywhere, then persist with the one topic until he's satisfied I understand what he's saying. That's key; I'm embarrassed I hadn't thought of it before, as I generally pride myself on taking that approach with other people. In his case, I've been so overwhelmed by textual tsunamis, I forgot about the essentials of exercising and showing empathy.

What I *can't* do is listen to his endless circles and random tangents; he's really, really unfocused, whether in spoken or written word. This sounds draconian, but I just suggested a private wiki of themes and topics. For example, one regularly repeating theme is enumerations of women in his life at various times. The posts are never exact duplicates, but there's a lot of repetition. With a wiki, he could write just those additional details that come to mind, instead of re-describing the mostly-long-distance relationship that spanned more than a decade. But I'm willing to do the work of getting to the essence of his topics.

Ylva, I'm ok with weird expressions. Actually, he probably got that kind of feedback elsewhere, bc most of the time he grins and nods and maintains persistent eye contact.

The rudeness to my boyfriend is perhaps insecurity as well. Most of it involves not treating my bf as the host when he's in my bf's home and I happen to be there. Like, bf has invited the guy for a movie night (dedicated theater upstairs; it's a total bachelor pad) and I'm in the kitchen packing our bentos for the next day. (I don't live there, but we consolidate food efforts.) Even when I say that I'm busy and "you guys have a good time," the guy focuses on me and ignores bf, who's headed upstairs. He's also posted in his public blog that he'd had a horrible weekend with nothing to look forward to ...when bf had had him over for a movie night. I'm chalking this up to awkwardness.

Then there's the talking thing, perhaps nervous although topics come across as discourteous. Details probably aren't important.


Thanks for helping me understand this and see what I can improve in my own communication!

 

[Ereth]

Is your boyfriend concerned about being ignored? I think perhaps it might be best if he handled that aspect of the difficulties with your friend himself. That's just my impression, though.

 

[ZaphodsCloset]

Is your boyfriend concerned about being ignored? I think perhaps it might be best if he handled that aspect of the difficulties with your friend himself. That's just my impression, though.

Ah, no. BF is super cool and understanding; he gets concerned that the guy rushes in to interrupt whatever I'm doing and the effect that can have on me. I'm still dealing with repercussions from a TBI a few years ago, so physical coordination and language processing suck up a lot of energy. The guy's body odor is usually pretty squicky, which seems to hit me harder when I'm low on bandwidth. And it's hellish when I'm on my way out the door when they arrive, and the guy crowds me both physically and verbally while I'm trying to be sure I have everything.

I'm the one who's offended by the guy being rude to BF by acting like BF is nonexistent in his own home.

And yes, you're right that it's best BF deal with those difficulties himself, maybe explain that he's the host and I just happen to be there. (*That* constellation is complicated even for NTs, though. As is a lot of our relationship. We're in mutual weirdness.) He's also going to handle the B.O. discussion at some point, thinks it would be easier coming man to man.

BF is, in terms of status, world experience, intelligence and empathy leagues beyond this guy. Beyond a lot of people, actually. He's one of the kindest people I've ever met. So he's absolutely secure in his position, has nothing to prove, and can afford to be patient with someone who's even more awkward than we are.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I really like the idea of a private wiki.

 

[Jb25jb25]

Hi Zaphods,

My name is Justin. I came to realize I had aspergers at 31. Life was daily coping in my living hell of confusion until I outgrew the "mind blindness". Lookup mindblind. A lot of what bothers you about him reminds me of myself in the past. The bottom line is he cannot see/read your facial expressions like a normal person. He is was trapped in his own mind, doesn't even realize what he and the world around him are like you have the luxury of. It was a curse. I'm guessing he has little to no friends. He knows there is something wrong with him but that doesn't mean you being nice to him will be anything but unsmooth for the both. He is ill equipped to relate to normal people the way you wish he would. Based on what you wrote I would say you would be a saint if you remained in contact with him, we still strive for human contact on some level, but just know that it may or may not get better. He sounds intelligent, it's well documented that most are. He knows you are trying to reach out, and I'm sure he appreciates it greatly, weather or not he can express it. Your kindness seems to have backfired, but it doesn't have to. He is not like you and does not realize, no idea, how he irritates you in subtle ways. He acts like he is blind to the body language que's you and your boyfriend probably give him, because he is. I would say, if you are interested in helping him, find GENTLE ways of teaching him how to communicate as if he were normal. He will hopefully appreciate it if done tactfully, with a kind heart. And hopefully you will better prepare him if another kind person tries to reach out.

 

[Ylva]

Summarise things for him? My mother does that with me sometimes; I go on and on about a topic and she eventually just tells me what my point was in one sentence. Works like magic.

The houseguest thing certainly does sound familiar. I was at a friend's house last summer and while he's really tolerant of many of my aspie tics, the same does not go for his wife, even though she's a mental health nurse. She is endlessly annoyed that I can't read her body language and that my hearing issues make it difficult for me to make out words in her thickly accented mumbling – not like your bf at all. If I tell her that I do perceive her muscle tension patterns, but that they only look like muscles tensing to me – that her expressions don't convey ideas or concepts like words do – she just ignores me. Your boyfriend is a real keeper. (Not goalie, just that you should keep him.)

 

[nowwhat]

When I make requests for reducing the sheer volume of his writing, he takes requests literally in ways that seem to intentionally miss the point. For example, he edited his writing some, then wrote paragraphs complaining how much time and effort he put into editing.

Sorry but I had to laugh out loud. That is funny as ****.

If the friendship isn't working for both sides, it's not much of a friendship. Do you want to be a custodian or a friend? Skip it with a clear conscience. I say this so easily because most will opt out of dealing with me, and I expect it to be so, and rarely take it personally anymore

 

[manca]

I do a lot of things as your aspie "friend" does.

Long e-mails, because you will for sure get me wrong if I don't explain everything. And then I'll have to defend myself. Which ends in me getting upset and you getting a long e-mail anyway.
When I start to talk I won't be able to stop. It feels good to talk if you spend days and weeks only talking to yourself. I will jump from subject to subject, because I want to tell so many things and I will forget if I don't start immediately.
The issue with "rudeness" to BF I understand as ignoring him? You are supposed to be his friend, not your boyfriend. I don't know if your friend really doesn't want to be friends with your BF, for me there are many people I can't stand and neurotypicals just adore them. Or maybe he doesn't know how to be friends with him. He may need more time to get used to him. You should talk about that, see why. And try to understand that 'your friend is my friend automatically' does not work for everybody.

I'm really in a bad mood today, so don't take my advice badly. I don't think you are a good friend to your aspie, maybe not even type of person that could be friends with him. You don't like when he explains himself, even in mails. I'm very sure he spends much more time writing them as you do reading. You answer in few words, which either shows you not being interested in what he has to say, or you didn't understand him, or you don't care enough to devote some of your time to him. You don't need to answer immediately or every day, but twice a week maybe. I mean meaningful e-mail, not few sentences.
He has to

walk on eggshells since I blasted him about 18 months ago for non-stop talking

. Don't you think that's unfair? I understand it can be annoying, for example I can barely stop myself when I start to talk about horses, but that's because I kind of feel like a dog being free after being closed in a kennel for months. Can't you give him a time period when he can talk and you'll listen? And then the other way around? Tell him how long you can keep up with him. Be sure that there are times he's bored and annoyed with what you have to say.
I thought that having friends means you can be yourself with them. It gets tiring if you have to keep censoring yourself.
It doesn't seem that you two have much of a friendship. He would have to change a lot for you to accept him.

 

[ZaphodsCloset]

Sorry but I had to laugh out loud. That is funny as ****.

Right?

If the friendship isn't working for both sides, it's not much of a friendship. Do you want to be a custodian or a friend? Skip it with a clear conscience. I say this so easily because most will opt out of dealing with me, and I expect it to be so, and rarely take it personally anymore

In my 20s, I would have seen it this black-and-white. And I'm on board with not taking it personally when people don't care for my company; most don't find me charming or pleasant.

But as I get older, there are more shades of grey. This is not an easy friendship for either side. But there's a range of options between custodian and friend.

From his side, contact with me means a little less isolation. It's not much fun for either of us right now, but present conflict can be worked through, I believe.

From my side, he has traits I feel are essential in friendship; I'd like to evolve them in myself.
WP Post - Five Traits of True Friends (article link & praise of Aspie Friend)

 

[ZaphodsCloset]

Manca, thanks for your frankness and sharing your experience and perspective.

I'm guessing you won't mind a LONG reply. Is that correct? And I'd be pleased to have a long one back, if anything occurs to you or you'd can further correct my views as expressed here.

When I start to talk I won't be able to stop. It feels good to talk if you spend days and weeks only talking to yourself. I will jump from subject to subject, because I want to tell so many things and I will forget if I don't start immediately.

that's because I kind of feel like a dog being free after being closed in a kennel for months.

That makes sense. My cat, if she's left alone all day, is much more "hungry" for playful interaction once someone's finally home than she is for food, even if she's physically hungry.

I don't feel a need to talk, much. I've gone months talking to no-one, except thank-yous to grocery clerks. The cat doesn't require talk (she only makes a noise if she needs something specific, with a different sound for each need) and I don't talk to her unless there's another human around who might want to know what I'm doing to/with her. I feel close to other beings through shared activity, and shared silence.

The issue with "rudeness" to BF I understand as ignoring him?

In BF's own home, when BF invited the guy for something not including me. I think he's distracted and wants to fill me in immediately on whatever's on his mind, and can't see that I'm trying to get things done then leave, and BF is waiting for him. The only blatant rudeness was saying that if things didn't work out between BF and me, he'd be willing to date me, and blogging publicly that he'd had nothing to look forward to all weekend, when he'd been at BF's for a movie night. Again, just awkwardness, I suspect. Still really odd.

'your friend is my friend automatically' does not work for everybody.

Geek Social Fallacy #4: Friendship Is Transitive
Five Geek Social Fallacies

Most NTs don't warm up to BF at all; he's not on the spectrum, but very quirky and a major nerd. This friend seems to want instant connection, and BF is someone it takes a while to get to know. Neither are into small talk, but last time they met, this friend talked for 20+ minutes about cheap restaurants and coupons, even though BF always pays for whatever they pick up or order in. Probably he was just trying to find an acceptable topic. But if he's not interested in getting to know BF as a person, he certainly shouldn't feel obligated to accept BF's invitations. I'll tell him that.

I don't think you are a good friend to your aspie, maybe not even type of person that could be friends with him.

This sounds like an either/or construct to me. Is friendship potential really binary?
Certainly, I'm nowhere near being his ideal friend: someone who can listen and talk about anything and everything with no self-editing for 8+ hours.
If he had a range of ten different potential friends, I would probably be his last choice.
You know what? I look forward to the day when he has that choice. Not because I want to be rid of him, but because I care about his happiness and would be very glad for him if he was surrounded by ideal friends.
In my own experience, "instant matches" are rare, and it was well worth my time & effort to adapt my own communication style to be more open to a broader range of acquaintances. That's just adding to my toolbox of options, not being "less me."

You answer in few words, which either shows you not being interested in what he has to say, or you didn't understand him, or you don't care enough to devote some of your time to him.

This looks like either/or, black/white thinking to me, which I don't find very helpful in most situations.
False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I answer curtly because his extremely long writing uses up 95+% of the communication energy I'm able to give to interacting with him.

Are you up for an attempted metaphor? Let's try using matchsticks to illustrate units of social-interaction energy.

Let's say I have ten matchsticks worth of energy available for interacting with you.
You can use my matchsticks for anything you like: listening/reading, processing what you're saying/writing, responding, asking you questions, listening to your responses, telling you about myself.
(I just made that up, so I've probably missed a lot of further options.)

If you want, you can allocate all ten matchsticks for listening. That means, I listen to you the entire time, or I read what you've written until the matchsticks are gone. But when the matchsticks are gone, there's no energy left to spend on processing what you're saying, or asking you questions, or otherwise responding.

Opening a mail or blog entry to find screens and screens of dense text uses up at least one matchstick before I've even started reading. His writing style uses up several more, bc it demands I sort through many fluff phrases and words, repetition of things I've heard before, and back-and-forth "maybe this but on the other hand possibly that, and then there was that other tangentially related topic." By the time I can figure out the point of one screen of text, he's used up 7 or 8 matchsticks already. Scanning further screens for possible items that need response gets me to 9.75 matches, leaving 0.25 matchstick energy to reply.

He's the one choosing how to allot those matchsticks. Maybe it would cost him 9.99 of his own matchsticks to write a less-than-one-screen mail/post. But let's say he did that.

Opening mail/post and having instant overview: 0 matchsticks
Reading mail/post, including sorting limited non-meaning words and repetition: 1 matchstick
Thinking about what he wrote: 1 matchstick
Answering his questions: 1 matchstick
Asking him questions: 1 matchstick

That's only 4 matchsticks! leaving me more to, say:
Pick up phone and ask how he's doing, listen for 20 minutes: 1 matchstick
Write him a postcard and mail it: 1 matchstick
Answer his call and make time to listen for 20 minutes: 1 matchstick

Read his one-screen-or-less reply to my earlier response: 1 matchstick
Reply with more questions and answers: 2 matchsticks

That's the math, basically. How he uses my interaction energy is up to him. Most of the time, he chooses to use them up by writing screens and screens of free-form stream-of-consciousness text.

I thought that having friends means you can be yourself with them. It gets tiring if you have to keep censoring yourself.

I'm not sure about this, but you've given me something to think about.

 

[Ereth]

In BF's own home, when BF invited the guy for something not including me. I think he's distracted and wants to fill me in immediately on whatever's on his mind, and can't see that I'm trying to get things done then leave, and BF is waiting for him. The only blatant rudeness was saying that if things didn't work out between BF and me, he'd be willing to date me, and blogging publicly that he'd had nothing to look forward to all weekend, when he'd been at BF's for a movie night. Again, just awkwardness, I suspect. Still really odd.

Well, that explains a lot . . . if he likes you, then no wonder he's hovering around you when he and your boyfriend are going to go hang out. As for the blog stuff, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Perhaps he finds the outings a bit boring, but doesn't feel comfortable saying so directly. But I may be presuming.

 

[Ylva]

When you put it that way, he does sound like a super-Hufflepuff.

Thank you for the list of Geek Social Fallacies. I have committed every single one at least once.

 

[ZaphodsCloset]

Justin, thank you so much for your encouragement and experience.

I'm guessing he has little to no friends.

That's pretty accurate.

I've dragged him to various meet-ups, where he's made some new acquaintances, but nothing's really developed. To his credit, a lot of the people there were probably less evolved socially than this friend is; my BF joined us for a games night we attended, and later said our friend seemed to have a lot more going on than the rest of the participants did. It's hard to find the right setting. Mostly, this friend is interested in finding a Relationship, which makes him seem dismissive of potential male friends. And with women, he comes across as a bit over-eager, even when he's playing it cool.

And hopefully you will better prepare him if another kind person tries to reach out.

That's exactly my hope, Justin. Despite my vast shortcomings as a friend to him, and as bored as he seems to be with BF's company, I feel like we're better than nothing, a chance for him to practice, a means of maintaining at least a little connection until he gets what he needs.

At times, through his blog, he makes it SO clear that his standards for friendship are soooo specific and so high, and that I'm appreciated but so far from the mark. But I'm a huge believer in a little, imperfect connection being better than none at all.

This is the song I used to explain my thinking about this friendship to BF, when we were first getting to know each other. He agrees, and that's why he's also made an effort to provide the guy with social options especially on weeks when I'm not up to it. Also, in BF's words, "I like the guy."
Tina Dico -- One

 

[Ylva]

PS. Try skimming the mails.

 

[manca]

I'm guessing you won't mind a LONG reply. Is that correct? And I'd be pleased to have a long one back, if anything occurs to you or you'd can further correct my views as expressed here.

Great

I'd say we are very different people, with very different views. See, I had friendships similar to yours. Somehow I always ended running away, because it hurt too much. Yes, I am pretty lonely now, but I was much more upset with those friends.

The talking issue, I think you two could work it out, compromise. Set some rules. My relatives will have me know just when it's enough. I know that I can get boring, just not exactly when they have enough. They need to either tell me or change the subject completely. I'm not very good at reading them and I assume the information I'm sharing is just as interesting for them, when usually it isn't. But they talk to me about things I'm not very interested about, and I listen then. It's a compromise. Don't have him walk on egg shells, let him relax and talk and then tell when it's enough. It's not very pleasing when you have to keep guessing if you can talk or it's time to shut up. I assume he has a hard time telling when he crossed the line, just as I do. While neurotypical would know that from reading body language.

I was friends with a girl from primary school. We went to different high schools but after a year I changed my mind and came to her school. Of course she had new friends by then. The whole class was very "groupy", so it was assumed I'm going to befriend 4 others, all new people for me. I was very jealous and unsure because my old friend wasn't always sitting with me, or paying attention to me. While she had others I only had her. I felt horrible, like she doesn't like me anymore. I didn't know how to start new friendships, I usually know people for a long time before I considered them friends.
I became friends with one girl after one year, due to our common interest in some books. If we weren't both in the group I would have never talked to her or found out about her interest. The other 3 I would talk to them, go to movies, drinks, etc (if friend 1 or 2 were also going), but they were never my friends. I never talked about things that mattered to me with them. I have no contacts with them now. I always felt very uncomfortable if I was left alone with them. I accepted the invitation if they invited me somewhere, but even after 3 years they were still strangers to me. I was in their companion only because my friend was.

If that's the problem with your BF and friend then well, you decide. You can push and maybe they click after some time. But I guess your friend is running from your BF to you, because he feels uncomfortable in his presence. I always felt awful when I was left alone with one of the 'group members', not knowing what to talk about and knowing I have to, because I'd be considered strange otherwise and that mattered because they could say something to my friend.
If he's jealous (the dating matter) that's quite different, as Ereth has already said.

This sounds like an either/or construct to me. Is friendship potential really binary?
Certainly, I'm nowhere near being his ideal friend: someone who can listen and talk about anything and everything with no self-editing for 8+ hours.
If he had a range of ten different potential friends, I would probably be his last choice.
You know what? I look forward to the day when he has that choice. Not because I want to be rid of him, but because I care about his happiness and would be very glad for him if he was surrounded by ideal friends.

Yes, I consider friendship binary. You either care for me or not. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but when I had friend that would only listen certain things from me, who would not respond, or respond shortly, and had high expectations from me, I was hurt a lot. It was going on for a long time, before I finally snapped and ended it. The social contact I had with her was all about being something I wasn't, what I couldn't be. She was trying to change me all the time, but wasn't willing to change herself for me even a bit. Probably because I'm considered to be the broken one.
The other friend I knew from primary school was much more accepting. That doesn't mean I was talking 8+ hours, no way she'd let me, but I was still able to tell her everything I wanted to. So did she. Without self-editing. She always let me know when it was enough.

In my own experience, "instant matches" are rare, and it was well worth my time & effort to adapt my own communication style to be more open to a broader range of acquaintances. That's just adding to my toolbox of options, not being "less me."

I don't believe in instant matches at all. I need to know someone from before, know his habits and behavior, before I can become friends.

The matchstick metaphor makes it easy for me to understand. I get it. I still think he should write as much and anything he wants. How much you're able to read and will actually read is another thing.

He needs to adjust more, you too. You'll see how much each of you is able to stand. He is getting you "at wit's end" and you're probably doing the same to him. That's why I don't understand why you're still trying. No, there aren't instant matches. But for some people you have to adjust a little bit and for others more. So some are better matches than others. You two will both have to change, but routine is our comfort. He will be hurting in the friendship while adjusting for you, then you're going to decide it's not going to work out/it's not worth it and you'll end it and he'll be hurting because of that and the routine change again. Or he will escape as I usually do.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Here's some speculation about his obsession with "women."
I, (a woman), sometimes feel extra uncomfortable around other women because I don't know how to be like other women, and I feel I'm not part of the group.
With men, sometimes I am more comfortable because they expect me to be different than them.
Maybe that's part of the reason he's not so hot on being with your boyfriend.

In fact, maybe part of his obsession with dating women is partly because
A. For similar reasons to mine, he is more comfortable with people of the opposite gender.
B. He is lonely and wants human connections.
C. As a result of what society and other people tell us, he thinks that all real relationships between a man and a woman are a dating type relationship, and is not that aware of how good and real a non-dating friendship can be.
D. As a result of A,B, and C, his need for connection is perceived by him as a need to date.