Aspergers and Religion

[Miker]

I have a question for you all! Since I have known only a handful of lovely ASD people, I am curious as to how ASD people deal with the issue of religion (Christianity or not; I am a Christian UMC pastor, but I'm not trying to evangelize here, simply interested since it's one of my biggest interests, obviously!). Did you grow up in a religious household? What role does religion play in your life? Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

I had an upbringing which had no links to religion at all other than having to sing hymns at school during assembly. Religion has no impact on my life at all and although my ethics are probably influenced by Christian ethics due to the fact that society in general is influenced that way in the UK, I tend to look at things in an ultra logical way and see no need for religion in any form.

Each to their own though!

 

[Ste11aeres]

I had an upbringing which had no links to religion at all other than having to sing hymns at school during assembly. Religion has no impact on my life at all and although my ethics are probably influenced by Christian ethics due to the fact that society in general is influenced that way in the UK, I tend to look at things in an ultra logical way and see no need for religion in any form.

Each to their own though!

Without denigrating or dismissing your way of seeing things, I would like to add that there is no contradiction between a logical way of seeing things, and religion/being religions.

 

[Miker]

Without denigrating or dismissing your way of seeing things, I would like to add that there is no contradiction between a logical way of seeing things, and religion/being religions.

Yeh point noted, I guess what I was trying to describe was my inability to understand religious faith. I don't know if that is a trait of As, maybe, maybe not. I don't know to what influence the country of origin matters. I think that in the UK overall religion is having less influence as free market economics takes over the moral direction of the population. I cannot say for other places in the world.

 

[Crossbreed]

I was raised in the Methodist church. Sunday school more-or-less taught us the tenets of the Nicene creed, but it was never clear to me how they were supposed to be relevant to the here and now.

Later, my Baptist uncle showed me THIS BOOKLET and it connected all of the dots for me. Afterwards, I found my best church fit* in Vineyard Christian Fellowship. Since its founder, John Wimber, died, it has become an official denomination, Association of Vineyard Churches. (The fit in this new iteration has been a bit hit-and-miss.)

*Most accommodating to my as yet undiagnosed Aspergers.

 

[Brony714]

Did you grow up in a religious household? What role does religion play in your life? Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!!

Did you grow up in a religious household?
Not really, although my dad was raised by Christian parents, and my mom is Jewish, although to the best of my knowledge, she has never practiced the religion. I became a Christian when I was a junior in high school, and was the only person in my household who regularly attended church.

What role does religion play in your life?
I believe, but I don't exactly read the Bible and/or pray 24/7...

Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion?
I don't participate on a regular basis, but when I do, I do so in community with other people.

Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"?
There are those who find me "querky", but for the most part, I've been accepted by those of my faith, at least the ones I've gone to church with.

What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion?
To be perfectly honest, that's something I've never actually given any thought to...

Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?!
Not really...

 

[Larisa]

Did you grow up in a religious household?
My parents were atheists but my grandmother insisted on batizing me an Orthodox Christian (I was a baby then).
Then times got really hard (the USSR fell apart, the prices went up in dozen times, everything my parents had known - changed) and I had a spine trauma - and my mother become a very dedicated Orthodox Christian. Since my 12 years my mother tried to influense me but she could not answer any of my questions.
I had troubles with my mother because I did not lived up to her expectations in religious views (among others).

What role does religion play in your life?
I'm afraid of fanatics that demand demostrative public behaviour without respecting inner feeling and thoughts of the person.
The Russian Orthodox Church leads a very aggresive politics to women and society.
I feel oppressed (and they're going to build the second church in the only park in my district).
I was curious about the human history and the history of religions - and I got to see them as strictly political movements in human society without any noticable trace of the Creator's approval.

Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion?
I took part in my parents' burial services (they died three years one after another) and I lit candles in church after I saw my parents in my dreams (they were angry and aggressive).
I sometimes go to Lutheran or Catholic churches - to sit and think about everything (there is no benches in the Orthodox churches).
But I can not believe in the basics of any religion.

Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"?
When I was in the Orthodox church on my mother's burial service, I was demonstratively shunned for the improper behaviour (I talked with my father and we remembered different situation about my mother - and sometimes my father and I smiled). I never liked these people (my mother's churchmates) any way.

What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion?
I think every person goes to a chuch for the sense of living, for confidence in the future, for the reassurance they never die. And for the feeling of belonging to the certain human community.
Sometimes I envy them but I keep seeing the people and can't believe the roles they play - no matter the gold, the books, the icons, the statues, the altars, the ritual clothes and the strange buildings they use.

Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?!
I have - plenty, based on the Bible and general considerations (but I'm afraid to disrupt the Rules of the forum and start a discussion).
I read through the first chapters of the Bible and realised that nobody reads them seriously, like a text seen for the first time - but rather mechanically. They were the foundation of the Bible we've got to know but everybody believes them to be too naive to really think about, analyze and consider them.
I think that the text (these four chapters of Genesis) was changed several times - and the original idea was turned upside down in these 'corrections'.
It's a common opinion our ancestors were naive and simple-minded and that's why so much ambiguity - but I think those people were quite able to put together a story, but the later people added their 'corrections' to get the public obedience for their ideas.
Well, that's my personal opinion.
If anybody is curious to read these chapters (including the Cain's banishment) a row after a row, a sentence after a sentence like a new text (never seen before) and analyze it as the new text should be considered for the logical links - please, share your opinion with me.

 

[Dominic]

Without denigrating or dismissing your way of seeing things, I would like to add that there is no contradiction between a logical way of seeing things, and religion/being religions.

Hi Ste11aeres

surely there is no logic in believing something that isn't true or cannot be proven to be true. The most logical course when presented with something that hasn't been proven is to defer judgement and not jump to a conclusion based on emotion and dogma. This is where adherence to religious tennets always falls down because they claim to know truth based on dogma and require acceptance on faith. Faith is the acceptance of a claim based on no evidence whatsoever and is therefore contrary to logical thinking.

If, however somebody says "I believe in x and I don't care whether I can prove it or not", then I would have no problem whatsoever with that position.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Hi Ste11aeres

surely there is no logic in believing something that isn't true or cannot be proven to be true. The most logical course when presented with something that hasn't been proven is to defer judgement and not jump to a conclusion based on emotion and dogma. This is where adherence to religious tennets always falls down because they claim to know truth based on dogma and require acceptance on faith. Faith is the acceptance of a claim based on no evidence whatsoever and is therefore contrary to logical thinking.

If, however somebody says "I believe in x and I don't care whether I can prove it or not", then I would have no problem whatsoever with that position.

First of all, there is evidence:
a)philosophical arguments,
b)evidence of miracles, and
c) for some individuals their own mystical encounters with God can count as evidence-perhaps not evidence that is binding for others (who only have that person's word to take on it) but are binding for that individual.

I'm not saying that such evidence will or should be convincing for everybody, but it's clearly not the case that there's no evidence.
Notice that I say evidence, rather than proof because there's no true proof of anything in the world: not even any proof that the external world actually exists. (I do believe that the external world exists and that the things I perceive through my senses are real, by the way, but not only is there no proof of that, there's no logical reason to believe that it is so.) There is nothing illogical in believing in something on the basis of evidence, even if there is no proof that can convince everybody.

Secondly, and more relevantly, your post violate Forum Guidelines on religious debate: https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/general-rules-guidelines.3/ The guidelines are here, and anyone can read them. Members are free to express their own religious beliefs or disbeliefs, but are not supposed debate them, nor to denigrate those held by others, and therefore, as a Moderator, if this thread turns into a debate I will be compelled by Forum Rules to start deleting posts.

 

[Dominic]

First of all, there is evidence:
a)philosophical arguments,
b)evidence of miracles, and
c) for some individuals their own mystical encounters with God can count as evidence-perhaps not evidence that is binding for others (who only have that person's word to take on it) but are binding for that individual.

I'm not saying that such evidence will or should be convincing for everybody, but it's clearly not the case that there's no evidence.
Notice that I say evidence, rather than proof because there's no true proof of anything in the world: not even any proof that the external world actually exists. (I do believe that the external world exists and that the things I perceive through my senses are real, by the way, but not only is there no proof of that, there's no logical reason to believe that it is so.) There is nothing illogical in believing in something on the basis of evidence, even if there is no proof that can convince everybody.

Secondly, and more relevantly, your post violate Forum Guidelines on religious debate: https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/general-rules-guidelines.3/ The guidelines are here, and anyone can read them. Members are free to express their own religious beliefs or disbeliefs, but are not supposed debate them, nor to denigrate those held by others, and therefore, as a Moderator, if this thread turns into a debate I will be compelled by Forum Rules to start deleting posts.

You and I will have to differ on what we would accept as empirical evidence as a basis for forming a logical argument. I could go into each of the points you make but I fear I would further violate your guidelines which I had already read. I stand by my comments and will let others judge the logic for itself. For me the only point I find interesting is how 2 people can look at the same texts, documents and "evidence" and arrive at different conclusions.

If we ever as a species get to a point where questioning and debate are forcibly discouraged then surely we are all doomed. It is through discourse and exchange of ideas that we sharpen our knowledge and grow intellectually. Never be afraid of having somebody disagree with you for it is a beautiful thing.

 

[AlittleEccentric]

I follow a long defunct branch of Zoroastrianism called Zurvanism, which was the state religion under the Sassanian Persian empire. In Zurvanism, Ahura Mazda who is the good God, and Angra Mainyu, who is the evil spirit both emerge from Zurvan, the personification of time and fate.
This is different from the other traditional branch of Zoroastrianism where Ahura Mazda alone in the uncreated entity or
Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are the only uncreated entities. It is also more fatalistic than the traditional branch.

Nonetheless, the basic dualism remains strong in Zurvanism, and morally, people are encouraged to act in an ethical and altruistic way, as well as trying to acquire knowledge. This is said to increase the amount of good and wisdom in the world. Evil acts increase the amount of evil in the world, and thus benefit Angra Mainyu. That is what I believe. It is a very philosophical religion.

I grew up in a conservative Christian household. The problem of evil drove me to Zurvanism. It's dualism stronglyappealed to me.

Religion plays an important role in my life because I always take care to be as altruistic and honest as possible, so as to increase the amount of good in the world and help others. I also try to seek knowledge and pursue intellectual things, and inform other people about them, thereby increasing the amount of wisdom in the world.

Since Zurvanite Zoroastrianism is an extinct branch of the religion, and I am the only practitioner I know of, I practice it alone.

Given that I follow an ancient, extinct sect of one of the oldest religions in the world I think it is safe to say that my religious views are unconventional.

Very few people know about my actual religious views. I am a senior in high school in a small conservative town where everybody knows everybody, and I do not wish to be any more ostracized than I am already.

My avatar is a version of the Derafsh Kaviani, the flag of the Sassanian Empire.

 

[watersprite]

Did you grow up in a religious household? Yes.
What role does religion play in your life? Hardly any.
Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? I do not participate.
Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "quirky"? In the past they found me quirky and largely rejected me.
What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? That's a wide question; in general I think NT's do fit in easier to all communities, including and especially religious ones.
Do you have any unconventional views? I do, in that I believe in some sort of creator, that right behaviour matters, and that I have been nudged back on a certain life path from time to time, by either some part of myself that my conscious mind cannot interact with, or perhaps an external energy of some sort.
Any insights, ideas, observations, experiences or opinions are greatly appreciated!!!! I vehemently dislike double standards which I've noticed in most groups/communities.

 

[Hurting89]

I have to be honest and say there was a time I once believed in God. In my late teens I had a friend who was injured seriously in car accident and rendered a high level quadriplegic and for weeks I went to church by myself to pray for her (as strange as that sounds to me now).

This belief in God totally declined in my early 20's for some reason to the point where I just have no belief.

 

[camerartus]

. Did you grow up in a religious household? Yes
What role does religion play in your life? Large, although it comes and goes as a special interest.
Do you regularly participate in religious life, and do you do so in community with other people or in a more solitary fashion? Yes, both. I finally found acceptance in a little home church (4 of us). They are what I consider serious Christians who have fewer inconsistencies than most.
Have you been accepted by people of your faith, or largely rejected, or do they just find you "querky"? Ive been outright rejected. Although most churches sideline me rather than reject me. As a musician though, some will overlook other deficiencies in order to have access to my skill.
What do you think of NTs and religion versus ASDs and religion? It perturbs me the focus placed on relationship with other people as a fundamental to being a Christian. The standard seems to be that you must be fully "connected" to people and yet there is far less focus on being connected to God. There are many examples in the bible of isolated people still loving God.
Do you have any unconventional views--like maybe Jesus was an Aspie?! No, LOL but yes... But nothing I could describe so succinctly it fits here!

Nicely said. You are a very interesting person.

 

[camerartus]

I hope this thread restarts, it is very interesting.

 

[Suzanne]

Yes, my granny was a really faithful catholic and tried in vain to get to be that way, but for reasons that I won't discuss, to save from upsetting anyone, I denounced it when I was 15.

I have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses for around 16 years and it truly does push me being an aspie to the limit, but I am grateful for that, otherwise, I would be lost.

 

[StephF]

I did not grow up in a religious household.
Religion does not play any part in my life.
I don't attend any form of a religious community.
I don't see any difference between NT's and Aspies in religion.
I don't think I have any unconventional views.

 

[Katherine Rawstron]

I have been a Christian for >30 years, but only recently confirmed a self-diagnosis of h/f autism. I was not brought up in a Christian household, except for a couple of years when my grandmother dragged us into the Roman Catholic church (long story). That was fine, although I did find myself questioning a couple of things we were taught; then I was taken out of it when my mother remarried following her divorce. I eventually became an Anglican, got confirmed etc, but drifted away for a bit following one telling-off too many from my stepdad. Came back gradually; attended a High church in Paris (France), where I enjoyed debating with others in the church, mainly to prove how intelligent I was (due to verbal abuse from said stepdad), although I did have genuine questions as well. Came back to England and went to a very well-known Evangelical Anglican church, where my "debating" didn't go down so well. It was quite a culture shock, and I did feel I was being brainwashed (this was in the 1980's when the Moonies and Hare Krishna were very much around), but stuck around as I knew it was right for me. I had a lot of sound teaching, but there was a lot of pressure to witness, bring people to Christ etc, which I tried, but couldn't get anywhere! I came to accept, before it became official teaching, that there are ways and means of reaching people, and some people are sowers, others reapers. I nearly left that particular church when the "music" got so loud, I had to wear earplugs, and the booming and thudding was doing my head in. Thankfully, things eased up and I stayed until we had a new vicar who's caused a lot of trouble. I now attend my local parish church, where I'm Sacristan and secretary of the Worship Committee, and get on better in a smaller congregations where it's quieter, less crowded and fewer people to have to get to know! The vicar's scatter-brained, which can be a bit of a challenge at times, but I'm learning to go with the flow, and to remind him when he forgets things. I'm also a street pastor, and cope as we work as a team; we all have strengths and weaknesses, so carry each other along; I'm also not the only one who struggles with crowds! My views on Jesus are pretty conventional, but I do sometimes see things from a different perspective, partly due to my condition, but also because of the teaching I've had, and, of course, the Holy Spirit. I'm a poet, so a lot of my thoughts go into that. Said vicar is big on getting the Gospel out through the arts, so I get more opportunities to air my poetry than I did in my last church.

 

[Crossbreed]

Wow! (Please use paragraphs...)

 

[Katherine Rawstron]

Wow! (Please use paragraphs...)

Sorry, I usually do. I got carried away, and didn't want the blog to look longer than it was!

 

[Karl Bott]

You asked if anybody would beleave if Jesus was an aspie ?
I would go a little further by asking, ...and if God himself was an aspie ? and he greated the human as him alike, but the mammal instinct mixed with a higher intelligent of that human, mutated into a uncontrolable, irradical and self-destructive Being, that thinks it is smart !