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Advice needed.

Jonathan Lees

Well-Known Member
Need advice please,
Ive came into contact with a interesting woman online and we have been talking quite a lot online and been getting along, lots of flirting and compliments both ways, she wants me to visit her some time in the summer to hang out and see where things go, the problem is there are a couple of clear warning signs about her (possibly suicidal etc.) and though she seems interesting I'm not sure she is relationship material, I don't have a great deal of relationship experience but that's largely because I'm cautious and don't want to make mistakes, I'd rather miss opportunities than make a mistake. I am thinking I'll go visit her just not expect anything to come of it and probably just stay platonic, any advice?
 
I like the sound of going for a visit without expectations. (I believe it's best to not have any expectations regardless, even if you felt no reservations about her right now.) That makes it much easier to open the heart and mind to what happens in the moment as it's happening, without some tendencies to compare to what you might have expected or wanted it to happen. It might turn out much better than expected, or much less than. Either way it'll be a good experience. You might even discover something or someone entirely different through the experience of traveling - who knows.
 
Know of several people who met online, and they are still together several years later. So it does sometimes work although these instances might be exceptions. Try to provide yourself with a backup of some sort, hotel or motel room or bed and breakfast or hostel.

So that you have your own space to go to when you're visiting. It will provide you with some autonomy and time to think and consider. Otherwise wish you luck and friendship with this person.
 
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Thanks for the advice, pretty much supporting what I was already thinking, no expectations good advice now and in the future. I probably should think of getting a backup sorted but London Is so expensive so I'll probably just stay with her but bring a sleeping bag and be prepared to go to a hotel if needed. Even if we just stay as friends and nothing happens a couple days sightseeing in London will be nice, I've always enjoyed going.
 
Jonathan Lees

Would you consider the trip worthwhile if
the girl were a guy? And your 'not expecting'
anything beyond friendship did not include
the gender difference?
 
Jonathan Lees

Would you consider the trip worthwhile if
the girl were a guy? And your 'not expecting'
anything beyond friendship did not include
the gender difference?
Yeah it would still be worthwhile if she were a guy as I really like visiting London, I was asking for advice because she seems interested in more than just platonic friendship but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I find guys attractive sometimes but I've never tried with a guy, if she were a he I'd still go and enjoy myself and I'd be cautious of a relationship for the exact same warning signs.
 
If you can afford the trip and are comfortable meeting new people I would visit her. If she's not thinking of this as a romantic relationship yet then there's no harm to see how you are around each other, just tell her you want to take things slow and see what happens if you feel you need to say anything.

If it's possible she's feeling suicidal then having an extra person to talk to and open up with will do her good too, even just as friends.
 
If it's possible she's feeling suicidal then having an extra person to talk to and open up with will do her good too, even just as friends.
Yeah even if she's not a good romantic option, I like her as a person enough to want to help her with her depression and the best way to do that is with friendship as she doesn't really need more romantic partners, what she really needs is just good friendship.
I can afford it so I may as well go and be friendly.
 
How long have you been talking to her online? You said that she wants you to meet her, and with the warning signs she's giving off I'm not sure if she likes you in and wants to advance the relationship she has with you or if she's reaching out because she needs someone right now.

I'd like to think the best of everyone but given the world we live in that's not always the best thing to do (look at all the high profile violence in the last few weeks). I'd also tell you to be safe, if this is a recent thing and she's already giving off warning signs then you can't rule out the possibility that she's a danger to you or even a scammer. I'm sure you're smart enough to have already ruled that out or not.
 
We've been talking a couple of months. Idk if she really wants a relationship or just needs support but I'm happy either way to meet and see where things go. The warning sign is basically just the depression and suicidal thoughts as I'm not sure I could cope with that romantically. Thanks for the worry but she's definitely not a scammer or a danger to me I know her well enough to have ruled that out.
 
I'm not sure she is relationship material, I don't have a great deal of relationship experience but that's largely because I'm cautious and don't want to make mistakes, I'd rather miss opportunities than make a mistake.

It is our neurological tendency to think in black/white extremes; you mentioned one that is where I'd like to advise on. Now I totally get the "I'd rather miss opportunities than make a mistake" mentality but fortunately there may be a middle ground for you. I have also been known to say "I'd rather be alone than with the wrong person" which is similar to your own statement. However, if you have a girl that shows potential as well as red flags and you have the choice of pursuing or not, remember this: Trying is not the same thing as making a mistake.

You say you don't have a great deal of experience because you don't want to make mistakes. Well, here's a fact: you are going to make mistakes as long as you are inexperienced which puts you in a paradox. Do not fear the leap of faith out of fear for the fall.

Set a note for yourself for what mistakes you are trying to avoid. You need to physically write a list of things you are willing to tolerate and things that you will not and should not compromise for. If you are not specific with this then you are setting yourself up for failure. You must know what you want to achieve and avoid, otherwise your fear will be too vague to counter. For example you may see tattoos and suicidal tendencies as both red flags but on a list you may say that tattoos are something you can get over and live with whereas you will not tolerate a suicidal person with codependency issues. Doing this is NOT unfair nor cruel, it is responsible and could save you from mistakes. Real mistakes in relationships occur when someone compromises their values out of fear of separation.

I agree that red flags are important to note, that's why I would advise you to watch your affections and commitments. This is the first mistake ALL guys make because they jump in headfirst with no pacing and they get too attached too quick. People too often say "guard your heart" but no one seems to really known what that means. It means do not give everything up all upfront! Pace yourself and make your intentions known and clear.

Do not be upfront about your concerns for red flags!
1: Early stages of relationships are not meant for heavy critiquing. You are still too strangers, don't be too hard on each other.
2: If you are too open about their red flags, out of fear of rejection or loneliness they will inevitably try to hide their red flags from you instead of fixing them. This is critically dangerous practice.
3: Time will tell all. Watch and observe but don't try to stir up trouble early on or fix things.
4: Discussing personal change to the depth of suicidal tendencies should be reserved for long standing, well established relationships with verbally agreed upon open boundaries. I.e. She needs to trust you and give you permission to speak into such things before you can actually bring them up.
5: The only person that can change you is yourself. This applies to everyone which means you can't change her. So don't try to fix her... ever. If and when she wants to fix herself, she may welcome you as support but do not rush or force this.

Remember that even if someone says "it's okay, you can say anything" or "you can ask anything" or "I've got nothing to hide" doesn't mean you are free to start bringing up some of this stuff. Life lesson: People lie to themselves more than they do to others. A person may believe they are open to discuss things like suicide or rape or whatever but I promise you that unless they are 100% genuine, you will always find them erupting into a whirlwind of rage and defensive emotions. Do not do this until you both trust each other.

Trust is not something that should be demanded. It should not be freely or quickly given. You don't owe anyone trust. Trust must be earned over time and can easily be broken so take it seriously. Do not offer up trust to her too soon.

Learn to enjoy the early stages. It's not all about life and death mistakes of horrible hellish regret. Enjoy a little bit of company for crying out loud and don't get carried away.

It is only a real worry if you are finding yourself getting attached to the point where you cannot detach if necessary. You and she need to go into a new relationship with the thought that you may have to get out. Do not buy into any advice that says "you have to give it your all and forget about leaving the relationship" because it is not applicable to new relationships. That kind of thinking is out of context and taken from the idea that "you shouldn't go into marriage with plans prepared for divorce because you are setting yourself up for failure" which is also a load of crap. You go in with your feelers out probing and observing and you keep an exit available in your mind. This is why I said at the very beginning to list out your ideas of mistakes.

Treat a woman with respect and dignity and do not push her into anything. If you behave morally and things still don't work out, you get experience with few mistakes. Remember: Sometimes two people just don't work out, there doesn't have to be a bad guy, there doesn't have to be major mistakes. If you do right by her and she by you and things don't work out, that's okay.

Good luck!
 
Thank you Church the artist for taking time to do a in depth response, it means a lot :)

Yeah you're right that trying isn't the same as failing, but trying and failing is a distinct possibility. In the past I've ignored opportunities out of being scared of making mistakes but I had already decided before this thread to pursue things as I understand fully that I need to learn and grow just wanted advice on how to do so best and safest.

The list idea is a good one, I already do it mentally but physically writing it down could be helpful. For the example above tattoos wouldn't be a problem, a positive if anything as I love them and have a couple myself, the suicidal tendency is something I don't think I'd be able to handle though and therefore can't compromise with. What I'm scared of isn't rejection it's a bit more personal and harder to explain than that.

Yeah I know enough (from past experiences) not to jump headfirst and get too attached, don't worry I'm pretty good at not getting too attached, pacing myself and being clear about intentions now.

I know not to pry to deeply into red flags as after all its early days but I admittedly struggle with this sometimes again good advice though. I'm naturally a very trustworthy person I know well enough not to expect the same from others though.

Well currently I find it impossible to enjoy the early stages and I am not sure I ever will, I'm trying to though. I'm not that attached and can easily detach when needed.

I'm very respectful of women and act in a dignified, moral way and would never dream of forcing things, if anything it would more likely be the other way around. I totally understand it doesn't always work out and I'm fine with that.

Thanks for your advice, really good on the whole. Most of it is stuff I already do or think about as I make sure to protect myself, be careful and not get too attached too quickly, the things struggle with are actually just taking any risks/the leap of faith, and actually enjoying it in the first place but at least I make sure I'm safe and I'm getting progressively closer to being comfortable with all of this.
 
You know, from my personal experience there was this moment just two years ago when I was curled up on the couch next to my mom (who's my buddy) and we were talking over coffee. My mom, had started to cry when she told me "I didn't see it until you said it but you've never met any girl who could be faithful. You've never seen any girl close to your age who didn't somehow cheat on someone." It pained my mom because she has a big heart and any time she accepts when I am right, it's painful because I'm right about how evil people can be and it hurts for her to realize this. She was finally seeing a truth that I had known all my life, that always became more and more solid with each experience.

Up until last year, every girlfriend I had cheated on me, ever friend that was a girl cheated on her boyfriend, every married couple I knew dealt with adultery, even my own sister cheated on her husband. Everywhere I looked, relationships fell apart due to unfaithfulness. I have also found out the hard way that women can easily abuse and damage a man. I found out the hard way that preachers shouldn't be trusted so easily. I found out quite a lot of things the hard way usually because I was either alone or in a relationship with an abusive and unfaithful girl. There was only the two choices, never anything between. I don't exactly live in a morally wealthy area.

However, I did meet someone last year. We dated briefly and it didn't work out, and that's okay. The thing that I took from it was that in the brutal, bloody, sickly and near dead hell I have been put through- all at the hands of females... there was one girl who was good to me. I could look back and have nothing but happiness for the short time with her. There were few moments that were unpleasant and sure, I could have improved many situations had I been more experienced. But I never regret my time with her. Just because it didn't last doesn't mean it wouldn't leave a lasting impression on my weary heart. For that reason I say that you should always be careful but never be afraid to experience life. All the hell in the world can be balanced out by one simple smile though fleeting it may be. You can always push further and last longer with one or two good memories to cherish.

:)
 
You know, from my personal experience there was this moment just two years ago when I was curled up on the couch next to my mom (who's my buddy) and we were talking over coffee. My mom, had started to cry when she told me "I didn't see it until you said it but you've never met any girl who could be faithful. You've never seen any girl close to your age who didn't somehow cheat on someone." It pained my mom because she has a big heart and any time she accepts when I am right, it's painful because I'm right about how evil people can be and it hurts for her to realize this. She was finally seeing a truth that I had known all my life, that always became more and more solid with each experience.

Up until last year, every girlfriend I had cheated on me, ever friend that was a girl cheated on her boyfriend, every married couple I knew dealt with adultery, even my own sister cheated on her husband. Everywhere I looked, relationships fell apart due to unfaithfulness. I have also found out the hard way that women can easily abuse and damage a man. I found out the hard way that preachers shouldn't be trusted so easily. I found out quite a lot of things the hard way usually because I was either alone or in a relationship with an abusive and unfaithful girl. There was only the two choices, never anything between. I don't exactly live in a morally wealthy area.

However, I did meet someone last year. We dated briefly and it didn't work out, and that's okay. The thing that I took from it was that in the brutal, bloody, sickly and near dead hell I have been put through- all at the hands of females... there was one girl who was good to me. I could look back and have nothing but happiness for the short time with her. There were few moments that were unpleasant and sure, I could have improved many situations had I been more experienced. But I never regret my time with her. Just because it didn't last doesn't mean it wouldn't leave a lasting impression on my weary heart. For that reason I say that you should always be careful but never be afraid to experience life. All the hell in the world can be balanced out by one simple smile though fleeting it may be. You can always push further and last longer with one or two good memories to cherish.

:)
That sucks dude, very unlucky. I agree that the rare good experience can be worth all the bad, that being said I'm definitely going to avoid bad experiences as much as possible, being careful doesn't stop me from pursuing good experiences. I think monogamy is hard for a lot of people, after all we evolved to be Hunter gatherers who were hardly if ever monogamous. I think what is important is being honest with and respectful of partners no matter what.
 

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