#2 - Zero life.

[Fino]

Neither!

 

[SusanLR]

I would not assume it is a refusal....it could be an inability. Grief is powerful, and everyone experiences it differently.

This sounds like what I have been grappling with the past five years.
I feel like I'm adrift on an ocean, alone, waiting for something inside myself to come forth and alleviate
the feeling of alone since my loss of the only person I felt made me complete.
That would mean somehow feeling happiness without "desire",( that word again),
of having someone to share the world with. Someone that I feel
a loving bond of trust with. Without the bond, they are just someone to talk with in an intellectual
interchange.
I mean we can talk to an animal, but, not hold a conversation with really.
And still feel a loving bond.
We can hold a conversation with another human, but, not feel a loving bond. Thus leaving a rather
emotional emptiness.
Writing this out is helping me understand the problem is within and not the lack of something or someone outside of self. And it does feel like an inability.

Agreed.
I would suggest, however, that the inability stems from long reinforcement of the idea that "they" were her happiness.

This is true.
And from birth to 56 years, that is a long reinforcement.
My therapist says get used to the new norm.
It is a difficult thing to do after a life time of knowing a different way of living.
There is wisdom in this topic.

 

[SusanLR]

A person or a thing can't make someone happy, as true happiness comes from within. Some say it's a choice. IMO it's more of a quest. Seeking things that bring you joy and discarding what stifles you

Not trying to take over this post either, but, this is hitting the core of my emotional issues at present
and trying to sort it out. It seems @ainely is asking the same.

In the above quote: If true happiness comes from within...a choice or a quest...Seeking things that bring you joy and discarding what stifles....
what are the things? Are things not outside of self? Or are they something within if true happiness
comes from within?
Seriously trying to find my way.

 

[sidd851]

my question now is "if we go forward we have always to lead on things and people and be ready and aware for when they will fade away? and always find new ones? what's the meaning of life then?" it's actually a bit like the concept of the time and every day changes something

@SusanLR , @ainely ,
For me, the turning point in my understanding, and happiness, my contentment, was the realization
that what is really important is moments
in time, experiences.
Acts of kindness, both done, and witnessed.
Beautiful, peaceful scenery, viewed alone
or shared with another or others.
Still, placid, calm and peaceful interludes.
Feelings such as compassion, charity,
lovingkindness, selflessness.
These are the things that bring contentment.

The physicality, the persons or objects
present, are incidental, in these moments.
I could have been born in any time or place.
The most minute change to either would
have almost certainly affected who the
people were, that would be present in
my life. The objects in my life.
They would have been completely
different.
But the moments, the experiences,
does that mean that I would never
experience them? No.
The moments that I mentioned above, the
feelings and experiences, I would still have
had them. The physical objects and people
present would simply be different. Who my
parents were, where and when I was born,
my friends, my pets, my possessions---
everything would have been different,
but for those moments, feelings, and experiences.
I may have experienced them in different
orders, at different times, and in different
ways, but I would experience the great
majority of them nonetheless.

In this respect, the where, when, who, what
matters very little.
That I had these experiences, was and am
able to appreciate them is important.
That I can learn to do my best to create
them, foster them, is an amazing gift.
That I can take that ability, and create them
for others is truly a miracle. And,
if I truly care about others,
a responsibility.

As all things physical come and go,
fade slowly, burn quickly, or wink instantly
out of existence and out of our lives,
most never to return, it makes very little
sense to place high, very high, or extreme
importance on them.
Value the experience.

Yes, we can appreciate those people
and things, in our lives.
We can be aware of our experiences with
them, our shared feelings.
In the end, though, they were but
companions, for a brief while, walking
along a section of our converged paths.
To keep us one another company,
to experience together, for a while,
perhaps use our understanding and
love to create for one another those
experiences that we can.
Perhaps carry one anothers loads,
for a while.
To teach one another.

No two roads run together from beginning
to end.
So it behooves us to join roads that
never met, with ourselves.
When our roads diverge,
to take our experiences and our
ability to create them to the next traveller.
He may be lonely, thirsty, weary.
He may benefit from what you have learned
from your travels, and whom you traveled
with.

Our companions are ever changing.
Our experiences are universal.

However our company may change,
those of us serious enough to care
about others' journeys will find one
another.
I have found you.
You have found me.
We've travelled together, here,
for a short time.
I hope that I've eased those travels, for you.

Love those that you travel with.
They've shared the same troubles
and losses.
Remember those you've travelled with
fondly.
Carry your experiences and what you've
learned with you so that the next traveller
you meet can benefit from them.

Love never dies,
who we share it with changes.

sidd

 

[Annanda]

Happiness, what is that exactly?
A state of mind combined with emotions and feelings?
What hormone-cocktail do your body-mind have to mix, that you feel happy and how can you get it to do so?
Is our concept of happiness based on culture?
Does it have an influence of what we are feeling, how we are acting?
And if so, does's this fact influence what's going on in your body?
I think, the very base of happiness might be awareness. So if you're aware of what's going on in your mind and body, you might get a more realistic view of what's going on in the world and how you react to it. May be you could detect your own intentions for a special action and what result would follow.
And then you could work with your insights.
Maybe happiness doesn't come from a person or subject outside from yourself, but from a well adjusted balance of action and non-action of your mind and body?
Does this make any sense to you?

 

[sidd851]

Happiness, what is that exactly?
A state of mind combined with emotions and feelings?
What hormone-cocktail do your body-mind have to mix, that you feel happy and how can you get it to do so?
Is our concept of happiness based on culture?
Does it have an influence of what we are feeling, how we are acting?
And if so, does's this fact influence what's going on in your body?
I think, the very base of happiness might be awareness. So if you're aware of what's going on in your mind and body, you might get a more realistic view of what's going on in the world and how you react to it. May be you could detect your own intentions for a special action and what result would follow.
And then you could work with your insights.
Maybe happiness doesn't come from a person or subject outside from yourself, but from a well adjusted balance of action and non-action of your mind and body?
Does this make any sense to you?

You present some very good
questions, that are themselves filled with
insight.
For a moment, let's discard the
complexities, and, as I'm sleep deprived,
I'd like to leave this with you to ponder.

Happiness is wanting what you have,
and not wanting what you don't have.

I look forward to continuing this discussion
when I'm rested, and exploring your questions.

sidd

 

[Bronzelincolns]

of course..

 

[Tom]

My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy?

Yes to both. A love bird with its mate, a dog with its bone. These things can make us very happy.

 

[TempeFan]

This sounds like what I have been grappling with the past five years.
I feel like I'm adrift on an ocean, alone, waiting for something inside myself to come forth and alleviate
the feeling of alone since my loss of the only person I felt made me complete.
That would mean somehow feeling happiness without "desire",( that word again),
of having someone to share the world with. Someone that I feel
a loving bond of trust with. Without the bond, they are just someone to talk with in an intellectual
interchange.
I mean we can talk to an animal, but, not hold a conversation with really.
And still feel a loving bond.
We can hold a conversation with another human, but, not feel a loving bond. Thus leaving a rather
emotional emptiness.
Writing this out is helping me understand the problem is within and not the lack of something or someone outside of self. And it does feel like an inability.

Yes, it is an inability for most of us on the spectrum to do or be happy with what others do in a seemingly effortless manner, as we don't have the same opportunities or desires. From what I have read on this forum, it seems a lot of us are more interested in intellectual pursuits and find the most comfort in hobbies, not material possessions or sheeple. Yet, we still have the same need for connection and completeness. Our brains aren't wired to respond to social cues because we can't see them very well, which is a lack of opportunity to connect. It's like being in a foreign country where you don't speak the language. Communication is difficult and others find it easier to ignore or hate you rather than to step outside their comfort zone, explore the unknown and put forth an effort to find out who you are and what makes you tick. Others opt to pursue less complicated relationships with people who they perceive as more relatable and predictable and controlable. Yet most of us don't desire to be popular. Superficial and temporary relationships that follow an established pattern of behavior won't do. We are more content with just a few or even one meaningful relationship. Our standard is much higher, as we require it to be real and honest in order to form a bond. It's so hard to find because it's so rare. Once you find it, you realize it's not the kind of love you can live with, but the kind you can't live without. As far as I can see, at that point settling for less would not be possible and finding it again would be a monumental task.

 

[Annanda]

Happiness is wanting what you have,
and not wanting what you don't have.

I think happiness has a strong connection with satisfaction.
Last summer I went on a pilgrimage. Europe is covered with a whole net of pilgrimage trails. So I chose one and went on Shanky's pony for a couple of days. I walked for hours and hours in the woods, no-one around, my only two tasks were:

1. to find my way through Bavarian jungle, which is not so difficult because every trail is signposted here and might it be just a deer path .
2. To get something to eat, which is one of my special gifts.

As the weight of your backpack plays a major role in coming forth, you have only a minimum of stuff with you. Nearly nothing. And you experience on a very deep level, it is enough.
As I'm not a young girl anymore, from day three on, my left knee started to hurt awfully. My inner complaining about this very fact started immediately. And then I came to the following insight:
Happiness is a choice!
I could have complained about the pain for hours, apart from that no-one would have heard me. Or I could decide to enjoy my path anyway, which I did and guess what, after some minor exercices (shaking my left leg from time to time) it stopped hurting.
And I felt completely one with the universe despite of the mind shifting between wanted and unwanted feelings.
This might be happiness.

 

[ainely]

Maybe happiness doesn't come from a person or subject outside from yourself, but from a well adjusted balance of action and non-action of your mind and body?
Does this make any sense to you?

I thought a lot about this too..the point is to achieve this balance, .

 

[Annanda]

the point is to achieve this balance

You are absolutely right!
Difficult, but possible! Just keep trying.
As a musician I internalized: the journey is the reward.
Hard to accept at the beginning, but very true in the end.
This all sounds like my own grandmother...
Loved her very much!

 

[ainely]

You are absolutely right!
Difficult, but possible! Just keep trying.

Yea, i'm trying..
It's funny how I wrote this yesterday and today I'm struggling to react to like everything, it even stresses me think to get out of bed and wash my face
maybe it's just my teenage dramas, I hope they'll end.

 

[Nihil]

Learning actually makes me happy. Depending on the subject.

 

[sidd851]

I'm feeling just a little awkward, here,
I hope we haven't gone too far afield.
The direct line of inquiry that got us here
is straightforward enough, I'm just not so
well-versed in thread etiquette and practice.
@ainely , this is your thread.
I'll gladly defer to your judgement, or
listen to anyone wishing to opine or
offer insight or moderate.

So if you're aware of what's going on in your mind and body, you might get a more realistic view of what's going on in the world and how you react to it. May be you could detect your own intentions for a special action and what result would follow.
And then you could work with your insights.

This, precisely, is the purpose and result of
meditation. To observe the mind, and how it
works. Why it does what it does. Especially
as it relates to emotion.
To gain understanding of why you do and
think what you do is empowering.
What follows is understanding of the body's
reactions, as well as a measure of control
over both.
I won't take up valuable space here to tell
you of my experiences.

For all intents and purposes,
happiness is satisfaction.
A difference may be perceived
in intensity only.
Explore this by interchanging
the words, and observing the
meaning of your statements.

Maybe happiness doesn't come from a person or subject outside from yourself, but from a well adjusted balance of action and non-action of your mind and body?

This is very insightful, but perhaps
also, obscure.
I have found that happiness itself is
something we tend to downplay, or subdue.
We tend to pay more attention to
apprehension, usually where it is not
necessarily warranted.
We lend greater weight to the bad,
the undesirable, the unwholesome,
than we do to the good or wholesome.

I have found, for example, that my
happiness for the day can be set, or
strongly encouraged, If I can enjoy
"quiet coffee morning time",
especially in a natural setting, or,
in view of one.
I notice, that if I purposely try to carry
that enjoyment with me, throughout the day, that my "happiness" is greater and longer
than it would have been.
I frequently bring to mind sights and
sounds, memories of this brief interlude,
and it helps.
Meditation also vastly helps in this
endeavor.

There is also a phenomenon called
"practicing a half-smile".
When we are happy, we tend to smile.
This creates reinforcement, in the mind,
of the connection of one to the other.
We can use this powerful reinforcement
in the opposite direction. If we practice
keeping a "half-smile", it lightens our
mood, and inclines the mind
toward pleasing thoughts, memories,
and expectations, in what we would
refer to as a "feedback loop".

Enjoy the little moments more.
Look forward to them.
Create them, as you are able.
Call them to memory frequently.
Practice a half-smile.

You've heard it said,
"It's the little things."
There's wisdom, in this.

@SusanLR ,
@Annanda , and @ainely , and anyone else, I hope that this
sheds a little light, and eases your
journeys; I hope that it increases your
contentment, satisfaction, and happiness.

I am always available by PM,
should anyone desire.

sidd

 

[SusanLR]

Happiness, what is that exactly?
A state of mind combined with emotions and feelings?
What hormone-cocktail do your body-mind have to mix, that you feel happy and how can you get it to do so?
Is our concept of happiness based on culture?

State of mind combined with emotions. Yes.
Is that all emotions are? A hormone cocktail?
I don't know. How does one describe an emotion? It is a....what?
State of mind is definitely physical. If one has brain damage and can not think, then the first step
is eliminated. Thoughts affect the physical body by creating a reaction of hormones/chemicals that
shoot into the blood stream which in turn will affect every cell's action in the body.
You physically can feel it and in time you will physically decline from too much of the wrong hormones.

But, emotions are a bit more abstract to describe exactly what creates them.
Fight or flight is hormonal based as we all hear about. But, what about peace, happiness,
connection, melancholy. Things more subltle than the primal instincts.
It's a bit off topic perhaps, yet a part of it all. Something to ponder.

Cultural?
Not for myself. It comes from the inablility to have ever been able to feel a deep bond or connectedness
with another. It is essentially what everyone feels the need for when very young, but, as we develop,
most seem to naturally branch out into connecting with others and a sense of independence that is
acceptable and comfortable.
I don't know why some do not. It is like living and going through life in a bubble and someone
in the bubble with you, then suddenly they are gone. Alone now in a bubble, able to interact and talk,
but, not able to feel the emotion. Those emotions that go beyond survival and primal instincts.
That's how I would describe it. That feels empty and alone.
Not good with Bible quotes, but, it also reminds me of the story of Adam looking about him
and knowing all the world was his, but, there was none that fulfilled the need of one as himself
to be with.

 

[Annanda]

It comes from the inablility to have ever been able to feel a deep bond or connectedness
with another.

Your report is very interesting, SusanLR!
Your experience of not feeling deeply connected in a conventional manner is exactly mine. Might be that within autistic perception bonding or feeling connected works at other layers than within neurotypical perception.
I'm not only a visual person, but also an auditive one. I remember an experience of very deep connection, that was when I had the great opportunity to perform music with an extraordinary gifted pianist. At the end of the performance we both cried.
Some rare times this phenomenon reoccurs with an other very good musician.
At a very rough time in my life I worked with a physiotherapist. I had a seemingly ever-lasting headache.
After a week or so working in silence, because we didn't speak the same lamguage he knew my body and seemingly my mind and I knew the touch of his hands. And then this feeling of deep connection occurred when he was very focused one my body and I was focused on his hands and his intentions to heal me.
I experienced it also with great meditation masters.
It feels like may be "unity of minds".

 

[SusanLR]

Your report is very interesting, SusanLR!
Your experience of not feeling deeply connected in a conventional manner is exactly mine. Might be that within autistic perception bonding or feeling connected works at other layers than within neurotypical perception.
I'm not only a visual person, but also an auditive one. I remember a experience of very deep connection, that was when I had the great opportunity to perform music with an extraordinary gifted pianist. At the end of the performance we both cried.
Some rare times this phenomenon reoccurs with an other very good musician.
At a very rough time in my life I worked with a physiotherapist. I had a seemingly ever-lasting headache.
After a week or so working in silence, because we didn't speak the same lamguage he knew my body and seemingly my mind and I knew the touch of his hands. And then this feeling of deep connection occurred when he was very focused one my body and I was focused on his hands and his intentions to heal me.
I experienced it also with great meditation masters.
It feels like may be "unity of minds".

I know what you mean.
There have been times I could feel a connection like the unity of minds you describe.
I felt it with a Psychiatrist that other people didn't like. But, there was something between us
that was different.
I had a very close sense of connection with a special pet in my life once. A cat.
And now it is with my chiropractor who is also Aspie. We have shared special interests.
He mentioned it by the second time he saw me that he felt a connection also that was hard
to describe. We see each other sometimes on weekends as friends beyond the setting of the office.

 

[Kyou Nukui]

There is an italian song that says '' is there something you really care about? that makes you really happy?''
I can't answer or rather- I would be able to answer but my ''thing'' is a person that isn't a part of my life anymore and I don't know how good it can be to believe that people are solid walls to lean on.
My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy?
I think that things lead to a passing happiness that in the long terms it will run away but people aren't made to stay, therefore, are we destined to suffer and that's it?
okay, this is just a part of the things that go through my mind and I know that actually it's a difficult and depressing thing to answer but I ask it here because I like to hear others ideas and then I know, or at least I perceive, that here I'm accepted

For me things like toys, hobbies and interests can be a useful and/or destructive way of avoiding stuff I find unpleasant or difficult. Really nice, pleasant, beautiful things/experiences are often very sad for me because when I experience them I immediately realise that I have no special people (friends or family) to share them with and that spoils any enjoyment that I should be feeling.
Seeking happy moments seems totally pointless if the happiness comes mostly from sharing them with a loved one.

 

[Pats]

There is an italian song that says '' is there something you really care about? that makes you really happy?''
I can't answer or rather- I would be able to answer but my ''thing'' is a person that isn't a part of my life anymore and I don't know how good it can be to believe that people are solid walls to lean on.
My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy?
I think that things lead to a passing happiness that in the long terms it will run away but people aren't made to stay, therefore, are we destined to suffer and that's it?
okay, this is just a part of the things that go through my mind and I know that actually it's a difficult and depressing thing to answer but I ask it here because I like to hear others ideas and then I know, or at least I perceive, that here I'm accepted

I think we make our own happiness. I will sometimes talk about the love of my life and I say that because I was always happy around him and still am. I was forced to leave him, was definitely not my choice. But I did realize that the happiness I had with him, I made. The special times I remember, in all actuality, had nothing to do with him. For instance one of those special times was when I was driving my car following him in the semi truck he drove. I was looking back at that memory and it dawned on me that it was ME. He wasn't doing anything to make that special.
I also talk about how I love the west and only really happy when I'm out there. The west hasn't done anything to make me feel that way - it's just what's inside of me. I find a comfort there. And there may be reasons, but I'm the one who decides what makes me happy and what does not.