#2 - Zero life.

[ainely]

There is an italian song that says '' is there something you really care about? that makes you really happy?''
I can't answer or rather- I would be able to answer but my ''thing'' is a person that isn't a part of my life anymore and I don't know how good it can be to believe that people are solid walls to lean on.
My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy?
I think that things lead to a passing happiness that in the long terms it will run away but people aren't made to stay, therefore, are we destined to suffer and that's it?
okay, this is just a part of the things that go through my mind and I know that actually it's a difficult and depressing thing to answer but I ask it here because I like to hear others ideas and then I know, or at least I perceive, that here I'm accepted

 

[the_tortoise]

I think happiness and suffering coexist, and that's the way of the world. (At least that's the way that the world is for me, I experience suffering and I experience happiness....often at the same time.)

And I think that the price of love is the grief of loss.

 

[sidd851]

There is an italian song that says '' is there something you really care about? that makes you really happy?''
I can't answer or rather- I would be able to answer but my ''thing'' is a person that isn't a part of my life anymore and I don't know how good it can be to believe that people are solid walls to lean on.
My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy?
I think that things lead to a passing happiness that in the long terms it will run away but people aren't made to stay, therefore, are we destined to suffer and that's it?
okay, this is just a part of the things that go through my mind and I know that actually it's a difficult and depressing thing to answer but I ask it here because I like to hear others ideas and then I know, or at least I perceive, that here I'm accepted

I once heard a rather profound statement about this very thing.

"Never let your happiness depend upon another person."

I have found this to be good advice, and I have encorporated it accordingly.

There are those, that I have heard say,
"My family/SO/kids are my life.
If something happened to them, I don't know what I'd do. I couldn't go on. My life would be over."
While this may feel reassuring, may sound and seem like strong dedication, and testament to our prioritization of loved ones, it can also be damaging.

If we repeat something long enough, enough times, we begin to believe it.
I have seen this occur, usually to the detriment of the one proclaiming.
There is no person or possession that we can know or have, that we will not eventually lose. Death is the great, equalizing boundary. There is nothing in this life that we will take beyond it.(I am speaking here, of the physicality of our lives. What does or does not happen afterward has no effect on the physical reality of our lives and deaths.)

To allow our happiness to depend on any person, thing, or set of circumstances is to set ourselves up for failure. Eventually, they, it, or them, will not be there.

The truth is: crap happens.
Loved ones die. Friends die. Things break.
Pets and possessions are lost.
But... we go on.

I know a woman who had a daughter with severe epilepsy, and a life partner that she placed above all else, and called them her happiness for many years.
Her daughter died as a result of a massive seizure. She was devastated, reduced.
A scant year later, her SO was killed in a car crash. Since that time, despite supportive and encouraging friends and family, despite counseling and therapy, she is broken.
Nothing can rouse her from her despair.
She posts daily(it's been some four years since the crash) on facebook, but only to reiterate that her life is over. That she is miserable and has nothing and no-one.

Her life truly is over, not because of her losses, but because she refuses to go on.
She wallows in self pity and misery, and refuses to acknowledge that there are others that could benefit from her presence,
other worthwhile causes and experiences and people. She will have none of it.

Life goes on.
I have had my share of loss. While I am saddened by it, I go on.
There are still flowers, kind acts, chance encounters, and all manner of wholesome and enjoyable things in this beautiful world.

While people and things may fade away, or abruptly disappear, there are always others that can bring enjoyment and fulfillment.

There is always something, someone more.
Goodness and happiness come from within.
We're resilient.
People go on.
We go on to find the beauty and love elsewhere, and, if we search, it is there.

May you be well.

sidd

 

[the_tortoise]

Her life truly is over, not because of her losses, but because she refuses to go on.
She wallows in self pity and misery, and refuses to acknowledge that there are others that could benefit from her presence,
other worthwhile causes and experiences and people. She will have none of it.

I would not assume it is a refusal....it could be an inability. Grief is powerful, and everyone experiences it differently.

 

[Dillon]

In my point of view I believe things just change all the time. With people There are some who are not meant to stay to not make someone feel wanted but there are those who will support you and be with you every step of the way. It can be difficult to know if that person may or make not stick with you or like you said “a wall to lean on” but I learn by building trust and having a good character you’ll draw in people who will want to be with you.
As far as things go it’s more of a passion something you truly love. I find my hobbies have changed overtime and Xcode for fishing and drawing which I enjoy going for years. Also another example is I didn’t know what I wanted to do in high school like career wise. I went from choosing to be a one of those professional skateboarders/BMX riders in middle school to being a game warden in high school. As I got older though in my senior year of high school I learned to realize what is it that’s really going to make me happy life and I would enjoy doing and that’s when I decided I wanted to go into marine biology. It wasn’t until a little later I wanted to be a shark conservationist. I’m currently involved in University research tagging bull sharks and this is something that I truly love.
I hope my examples helps you cause that’s the best I can explain it

 

[BraidedPony]

We can’t depend on things, people, pets, money or situations to make us happy or to even always be there to lean on.
We can only completely depend on ourselves, but enjoy the people we love while they are in our lives.
Moving on can be done while we grieve, slowly, but in the right direction.

 

[sidd851]

I would not assume it is a refusal....it could be an inability. Grief is powerful, and everyone experiences it differently.

Agreed.
I would suggest, however, that the inability stems from long reinforcement of the idea that "they" were her happiness.
I think that we can agree that her life has very little meaning now, for her, or for anyone else.
She is avoided, now, because of her state of mind. Nobody wants immersed in it.
For all intents and purposes, she died with them.
I feel sorrow at her loss, and the loss of her.
I feel sorrow for her suffering.
I believe it to be self-caused, though.

I think that people are very quick to adopt viewpoints that are based on their desire to appear strong, upstanding, and confident. I think that people adopt viewpoints without considering the greater ramifications of those viewpoints.
This seems to be a growing tendency, even as education and free-thought are dwindling. Self-assessment and appraisal of one's beliefs seems to be on a steepening downward slide.
It seems as though beliefs are adopted for better headlines, rather than their ability to cover more terrain, in the way of explanation.
I often witness people trapped by their own beliefs. It is quite possible that I am one.

It is for this reason that I am ever open to possibility and change. I constantly evaluate my beliefs and update, edit, or change them as the need becomes apparent.
As I have done so for a very long time, I tend to believe myself well-studied, and well-rounded.
It is a continuing process.

Spoiler

During Buddha’s time, there lived a woman named Kisa Gotami. She married young and gave birth to a son. One day, the baby fell sick and died soon after. Kisa Gotami loved her son greatly and refused to believe that her son was dead. She carried the body of her son around her village, asking if there was anyone who can bring her son back to life.

The villagers all saw that the son was already dead and there was nothing that could be done. They advised her to accept his death and make arrangements for the funeral.

In great grief, she fell upon her knees and clutched her son’s body close to her body. She kept uttering for her son to wake up.

A village elder took pity on her and suggested to her to consult the Buddha.

“Kisa Gotami. We cannot help you. But you should go to the Buddha. Maybe he can bring your son back to life!”

Kisa Gotami was extremely excited upon hearing the elder’s words. She immediately went to the Buddha’s residence and pleaded for him to bring her son back to life.

“Kisa Gotami, I have a way to bring your son back to life.”

“My Lord, I will do anything to bring my son back”

“If that is the case, then I need you to find me something. Bring me a mustard seed but it must be taken from a house where no one residing in the house has ever lost a family member. Bring this seed back to me and your son will come back to life.”

Having great faith in the Buddha’s promise, Kisa Gotami went from house to house, trying to find the mustard seed.

At the first house, a young woman offered to give her some mustard seeds. But when Kisa Gotami asked if she had ever lost a family member to death, the young women said her grandmother died a few months ago.

Kisa Gotami thanked the young woman and explained why the mustard seeds did not fulfill the Buddha’s requirements.

She moved on to the 2nd house. A husband died a few years. The 3rdhouse lost an uncle and the 4thhouse lost an aunt. She kept moving from house to house but the answer was all the same – every house had lost a family member to death.

Kisa Gotami finally came to realise that there is no one in the world who had never lost a family member to death. She now understood that death is inevitable and a natural part of life.

Putting aside her grief, she buried her son in the forest. Shen then returned to the Buddha and became his follower.

sidd

 

[tducey]

I think everyone, not just those with Autism, are dictated by their environment. What goes on around us affects us. If everything's good then we're good, if not then we're not good. Surround yourself with the positive and things should be fine.

 

[ainely]

Life goes on.
I have had my share of loss. While I am saddened by it, I go on.
There are still flowers, kind acts, chance encounters, and all manner of wholesome and enjoyable things in this beautiful world.

While people and things may fade away, or abruptly disappear, there are always others that can bring enjoyment and fulfillment.

There is always something, someone more.
Goodness and happiness come from within.
We're resilient.
People go on.
We go on to find the beauty and love elsewhere, and, if we search, it is there.

May you be well.

I admit that I struggled a lot to read what you wrote! The content for me it is really strong and I'm trying to not panic or to keep myself away from anxiety and despair.
Anyway, many people have told me that life goes on and that there are things and people to meet and opportunities to live but I just get anxious to think about it .. maybe because I just don't know them yet, I want to have everything under control .. thinking about something that will come or people that I still have to meet makes me really upset
I'm afraid of ending up like the woman you described
my question now is "if we go forward we have always to lead on things and people and be ready and aware for when they will fade away? and always find new ones? what's the meaning of life then?" it's actually a bit like the concept of the time and every day changes something.

also, thanks for the wishes and happy bday

 

[ainely]

In my point of view I believe things just change all the time. With people There are some who are not meant to stay to not make someone feel wanted but there are those who will support you and be with you every step of the way. It can be difficult to know if that person may or make not stick with you or like you said “a wall to lean on” but I learn by building trust and having a good character you’ll draw in people who will want to be with you.
As far as things go it’s more of a passion something you truly love. I find my hobbies have changed overtime and Xcode for fishing and drawing which I enjoy going for years. Also another example is I didn’t know what I wanted to do in high school like career wise. I went from choosing to be a one of those professional skateboarders/BMX riders in middle school to being a game warden in high school. As I got older though in my senior year of high school I learned to realize what is it that’s really going to make me happy life and I would enjoy doing and that’s when I decided I wanted to go into marine biology. It wasn’t until a little later I wanted to be a shark conservationist. I’m currently involved in University research tagging bull sharks and this is something that I truly love.
I hope my examples helps you cause that’s the best I can explain it

that's amazing, i'm so happy for you
i mostly agree with you,
people come and go and things always change (unluckily)
as for the self-confidence I have zero self-esteem, that's why I put "zero life" as a title
sometimes I seem to have good grades at school and a 0 in life
as for the hobbies and passions, I have some

thanks for the examples, you're great!

 

[Dillon]

that's amazing, i'm so happy for you
i mostly agree with you,
people come and go and things always change (unluckily)
as for the self-confidence I have zero self-esteem, that's why I put "zero life" as a title
sometimes I seem to have good grades at school and a 0 in life
as for the hobbies and passions, I have some

thanks for the examples, you're great!

I’m the same way, currently have As and Bs in my classes but I don’t socialize sometimes since I don’t want to deal with people anyway. I wouldn’t say my confidence is through the roof rather there are times I’m still afraid to talk to people since I may be having one of those awkward social moments but it’s better than it used to be.
And you’re welcome!

 

[Sherlock77]

I think all of us innately rely too much on other people for satisfaction, all human beings... As someone else has said

I know of countless examples of people who when their spouse/partner passes away despair and never recover... Too many to list here... I'm probably in danger a little, there is one friend I heavily rely on for socialization, and if he were to move away I think I would be lost... Thankfully at this point we are both longtime hometown residents, and seem to have strong loyalty to that hometown...

 

[midlife aspie]

Sidd, I was under the impression that desire is the root of suffering. I admire the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama. I think that if people were to look at grief in the light of its true source- LOVE- that the nature of our existence will start to become apparent. I believe that in the end, only love is real. It is the truth that unites us.

 

[sidd851]

Sidd, I was under the impression that desire is the root of suffering. I admire the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama. I think that if people were to look at grief in the light of its true source- LOVE- that the nature of our existence will start to become apparent. I believe that in the end, only love is real. It is the truth that unites us.

I am NOT hijacking this post, but will
give a succinct answer.
Desire is a term loosely used.
Attraction and aversion are the twin causes.
They are mirror images of one another.
===
Love. There's a term, and concept.
Many, actually.
I am particularly fond of the christian
belief and understanding that
charity is love, love is charity.

As love has so many applications
and meanings, actualities
and understandings, the collective
of which is able to be viewed as a whole
of experience,
I am inclined to agree.

sidd

 

[Gritches]

You should never rely on people or things to "make" you happy. I put "make" in quotes because people always talk about what "makes" them happy, in the same way as a virus makes you sick.

You can never acquire enough things or even the correct things that will "make" you happy, permanently. It's because human nature doesn't allow it; you get some, you will always want more. You get more, and you'll always want even more than that.

It's the same thing with people. Longing for a person is more like longing for the idea of that person. Inevitably, even if you were to get that person, they will fail to live up to the ideas/expectations you've set forth and you will be discontent. It's why half of all marriages end in divorce.

What's better than seeking that thing or person that will "make" you happy is to create an environment for yourself that is conducive to growing happiness of your own.

When I say "growing happiness", think about growing a plant, from a seed. The soil must be fertile, water must be plentiful but not excessive, and there needs to be ample sunlight in order for the plant (your happiness) to grow.

Relying on others or things to make you happy is like buying a full-grown plant from a nursery. I mean, yeah, you've got the same plant, and you might be proud of the store-bought plant for a little while, but that wears off. However, if you've grown the plant from a seed, you'll be proud every time you see that plant.

In non-metaphorical form: take a look at Mazlow's Hierarchy of Needs sometime. My interpretation (which panned out) of the Hierarchy is that acquiring things and/or relationships with others are only useful insofar as they satisfy your needs and allow you to advance up the Hierarchy. In other words, own your possessions, don't let them own you, and the same goes for people.

 

[Thinx]

There's no one truth that can answer this dilemma, I would say. Finding a way through loss and bereavement is hard, in my experience, and takes time. And it seems to be quite personal, how we achieve this, each person finding how to manage it for their own needs and comfort. Making sense of the love and loss conundrum is possibly not an achievable thing. It's just how things are.

I try to consciously grieve over losses, but that has to include thinking about all the good times, and if it's a person or animal lost to me through death, what they would want for me? I imagine them in a beautiful garden, happy and whole, still rooting for me and wishing me well.

Bit more complex if it's a lost relationship, because there are sure to be mixed feelings and feeling rejected, sad and angry, right and wrong etc. At least one can try to respectfully honour what was there, and mourn it, but it can be tricky, especially if the ex or person is behaving in a difficult way, but also when they aren't!

I do think a helpful idea is that change, including losses, also opens the door to new experiences and new people and animals, new places and opportunities. Sounds vague, but when I think back over bad times and losses, I see that better times and new things follow.

 

[TempeFan]

by building trust and having a good character you’ll draw in people who will want to be with you.

Being stuck in an abusive household for the first 2 decades of my life, I had no one and nothing, just me. I was pretty content as a child and grateful for any small kindness or pleasant moment. I spent a lot of time alone, hiding, reading, studying, watching TV, singing with the radio, playing solitaire and jigsaw puzzling. I didn't know what normal was so I didn't miss it. I simply rejected all the bad stuff I was subjected to and raised myself to be a good person, content in the expectation that when I aged out of that situation, I would be able to finally be who I wanted to be, make my own choices, find love and joy and good people and good experiences.

I spent the next 2 decades totally alone with no one and nothing to show for it, being that person who always did the right thing, who earned people's trust and respect, always honest and decent and kind and law abiding and hardworking to no avail. All my decisions were vetoed by the hates and prejudices and jealousies and fears and whims of the evil people in charge who saw good people as targets to be hated and harmed. Still I was the happiest person most optimistic person because I still believed that if I kept on seeking and deserving the good stuff, that one day I would finally get it.

Today I read this line and remembered back when I was his age and believed what Dillon Campbell said to be true. For the latest 2 decades I had started to doubt it because 98% of the people around me were liars and did not have good character. Then I realized that those 2% who were like me, were drawn to me. Most of these good people and things were taken from me by circumstances beyond my control, but I'm still me and for the last two decades, even though the world around me really sucks worse every year, I have enjoyed our short lived triumphs with my soul mate each day in our home full of love and joy.

 

[Dillon]

Being stuck in an abusive household for the first 2 decades of my life, I had no one and nothing, just me. I was pretty content as a child and grateful for any small kindness or pleasant moment. I spent a lot of time alone, hiding, reading, studying, watching TV, singing with the radio, playing solitaire and jigsaw puzzling. I didn't know what normal was so I didn't miss it. I simply rejected all the bad stuff I was subjected to and raised myself to be a good person, content in the expectation that when I aged out of that situation, I would be able to finally be who I wanted to be, make my own choices, find love and joy and good people and good experiences.

I spent the next 2 decades totally alone with no one and nothing to show for it, being that person who always did the right thing, who earned people's trust and respect, always honest and decent and kind and law abiding and hardworking to no avail. All my decisions were vetoed by the hates and prejudices and jealousies and fears and whims of the evil people in charge who saw good people as targets to be hated and harmed. Still I was the happiest person most optimistic person because I still believed that if I kept on seeking and deserving the good stuff, that one day I would finally get it.

Today I read this line and remembered back when I was his age and believed what Dillon Campbell said to be true. For the latest 2 decades I had started to doubt it because 98% of the people around me were liars and did not have good character. Then I realized that those 2% who were like me, were drawn to me. Most of these good people and things were taken from me by circumstances beyond my control, but I'm still me and for the last two decades, even though the world around me really sucks worse every year, I have enjoyed our short lived triumphs with my soul mate each day in our home full of love and joy.

I’m sorry but that literally made me cry for a bit.
I really understand what you were going through, I’ve grown up with a father who was so verbally abusive saying say I was a failure and I would never amount to anything and I that was my mentality for a long time even some people tell me the same thing cause I have something that they don’t. I didn’t have a normal childhood being chronically ill with frequent lung infections to the point I’m hospitalized throughout middle and part of high school. Middle school was the worst even though I was homeschooled due to frequent illnesses and bullying but when I tried to go back people had though I had died and said to my face they me to die and almost every kid in every class said that so still have flashbacks till this day of that cruel event but rarely. Having a weakened immune system and not enjoying a teenage life really destroyed my self esteem even further and missing out on the socializing that I hadn’t gotten to do with people my age. High school got better besides I had a jerk here and there but I still wasn’t that social didn’t put myself out there such as not going any sports and much in the way of clubs (except robotics club which that was awesome!). Although I had some friendsin high school, I kept to myself most of high school becoming isolated from others doing my own thing. During my senior year of high school I’ve been blaming myself for not putting myself out there most of my childhood that I was cutting myself and had almost committed suicide but I never did knowing I have a full life ahead of me why waste it now even in dark moments.

Life went on and I never heard or seen those heartless people again and my father stopped speaking or acknowledging me 3 years ago once I started college assuming he was jealous or didn’t know what to say. It took me till then that I started to understand myself more as to what I’m capable of, that whatever cruel negative things happened in my last made me stronger that I can’t hide the fact that I am me.

 

[sidd851]

I’m sorry but that literally made me cry for a bit.
I really understand what you were going through, I’ve grown up with a father who was so verbally abusive saying say I was a failure and I would never amount to anything and I that was my mentality for a long time even some people tell me the same thing cause I have something that they don’t. I didn’t have a normal childhood being chronically ill with frequent lung infections to the point I’m hospitalized throughout middle and part of high school. Middle school was the worst even though I was homeschooled due to frequent illnesses and bullying but when I tried to go back people had though I had died and said to my face they me to die and almost every kid in every class said that so still have flashbacks till this day of that cruel event but rarely. Having a weakened immune system and not enjoying a teenage life really destroyed my self esteem even further and missing out on the socializing that I hadn’t gotten to do with people my age. High school got better besides I had a jerk here and there but I still wasn’t that social didn’t put myself out there such as not going any sports and much in the way of clubs (except robotics club which that was awesome!). Although I had some friendsin high school, I kept to myself most of high school becoming isolated from others doing my own thing. During my senior year of high school I’ve been blaming myself for not putting myself out there most of my childhood that I was cutting myself and had almost committed suicide but I never did knowing I have a full life ahead of me why waste it now even in dark moments.

Life went on and I never heard or seen those heartless people again and my father stopped speaking or acknowledging me 3 years ago once I started college assuming he was jealous or didn’t know what to say. It took me till then that I started to understand myself more as to what I’m capable of, that whatever cruel negative things happened in my last made me stronger that I can’t hide the fact that I am me.

Dillon, you are truly an inspiration.

I also had a troubling childhood, and have a
father that even now I don't speak to.
I also came to the same conclusions that
you have.
The world can be a truly wonderful place.
It is up to us to find the beauty and purpose
in it, and I have no doubt that you will find it,
are finding it.

Keep to the path, Dillon.
Keep to your path.

May you be well.

sidd

 

[TempeFan]

T
My question then is, do you think that are things or people that make us really happy? I like to hear others ideas and then I know, or at least I perceive, that here I'm accepted

A person or a thing can't make someone happy, as true happiness comes from within. Some say it's a choice. IMO it's more of a quest. Seeking things that bring you joy and discarding what stifles you. The trick is knowing the difference. Others can certainly help you or hurt you along the way.