Will you marry me?

[mina]

[emoji183] [emoji183] [emoji183]
Do you guys think it would be more challenging for an aspie man to propose? If so, can you give insight on your perspective? [emoji53] [emoji52] [emoji58] ???

 

[Suzanne]

If I were single and a lesbian, then I might say yes lol

I am not a man, but I would hazard a guess and say that it would NOT be a challenge if his heart is touched; we aspies are straight up people and so, when we know something is sure, we want to "get over and done with".

 

[Nisk]

It was almost impossible for me, when I was with my ex. But there was other issues involved as well. For one marriage was not a big deal to me the cost of a wedding and the fact that she wouldn't budge on what she desired in a wedding was part of the problem.

 

[Maelstrom]

"mina, post: 252647, member: 13180"]

Do you guys think it would be more challenging for an aspie man to propose? If so, can you give insight on your perspective?

???

Yes mina , I do think something like that is very hard for us. The reasons : a wife not being able to accept our aspie differences, same with the family. Same story on the aspie problems with surviving the job market...the list goes on an on communication problems, intimacy problems.

I was pressured into asking my ex-girlfriends father for his blessing for the engagement, I told her it was not a good idea, but she begged and pleaded, so I did, sweating blood the whole way in. Even I could see I wasn't his favorite person, she wouldn't listen to me just kept swearing he liked me, he did not, and totally ambushed me on money job thing, wasn't even polite or willing to listen to me. I tried to explain I hadn't settled the babysitting her baby issue with her yet, and she didn't want to do daycare at all. I had just helped her get a nice nursing job so I couldn't promise to work full time with a baby needing care, but he was just plain rude, wouldn't even let me speak, I had to walk out. It was the beginning of the end, I'm never doing that getting the blessing thing for a girl again.

I think it is very hard for a aspies to trust new inlaws etcetera... to treat us decently, we don't get much understanding or mercy from the world.

 

[Spiller]

My lifetime of built-up anxiety over trying to do things right with people and invariably not succeeding, in addition to struggling greatly with body language and social cues, has so far made it impossible to start a relationship with someone I liked no matter how I've approached it.

My first crush probably thought I was plain weird as, in hind sight, I realise I just kept staring at her all through school, not having any idea how to approach her.

Had a couple like that till I figured talking to them - about anything - would help.. I'm not great at small talk though.

Over the years I've installed kitchens, bathrooms, tiled, plastered, fixed cars, washing machines.. trying to be liked.

In later years I've actually gotten to the conversations about feelings, which have never been reciprocated.

The last time I decided to just take the plunge - told her I loved her, asked her to marry me (first time!).. communication with her seems to have died off since, though, no idea why.

So to answer your question, mina, it's been extremely hard - it's taken me years and I still haven't figured it out - I say how I feel now and I want a simple yea or nay please, not messing around with subtle hints and diplomacy I can't understand.
There's still a huge knot of anxiety at the thought which, I'm informed, is supposed to be fun I still struggle with adequate eye contact and conversation, but I'm still prepared to learn and to try.

 

[Maelstrom]

"Spiller, post: 255003, member: 11082"]My lifetime of built-up anxiety over trying to do things right with people and invariably not succeeding, in addition to struggling greatly with body language and social cues, has so far made it impossible to start a relationship with someone I liked no matter how I've approached it.

My first crush probably thought I was plain weird as, in hind sight, I realise I just kept staring at her all through school, not having any idea how to approach her.

Had a couple like that till I figured talking to them - about anything - would help.. I'm not great at small talk though.

Over the years I've installed kitchens, bathrooms, tiled, plastered, fixed cars, washing machines.. trying to be liked.

In later years I've actually gotten to the conversations about feelings, which have never been reciprocated.

The last time I decided to just take the plunge - told her I loved her, asked her to marry me (first time!).. communication with her seems to have died off since, though, no idea why.

So to answer your question, mina, it's been extremely hard - it's taken me years and I still haven't figured it out - I say how I feel now and I want a simple yea or nay please, not messing around with subtle hints and diplomacy I can't understand.
There's still a huge knot of anxiety at the thought which, I'm informed, is supposed to be fun I still struggle with adequate eye contact and conversation, but I'm still prepared to learn and to try.

I know how you feel Spiller ,it's like a lamb walking to the slaughter house, lots of horror stories for me too. I do a little better now, but the horrors of rejection still weigh heavily on ones mind...asking for the first date is the worst. I'm trying now to just not care so much, if she says yes great, if no, well there are millions of more fish in the sea. There must be at least one match out there for me...but I may need some divine help finding her.

 

[Spiller]

I kinda feel that way myself Mael - not that I'm beyond caring, the possibility of a relationship still means too much to me - rather that I may just finally stop being anxious about it.. I've been wondering when that stress would burn itself out, so here's hoping.

My general pattern is to try to stay in touch - wait for her - till I get a 'Not interested' signal even I can understand.. the last time, five years ago, I waited 18 months, this time it's been 10 months..

I've considered, for the first time, that it's possible she actually doesn't want to stay in touch so I've stopped communicating now (a first for me) and she hasn't got in touch herself in nearly 2 weeks..

I have no idea of a reasonable time scale, so I'll give it till Christmas and if I've heard nothing, I guess I know!

I wish there was some written rule of thumb I could go by - NT's have that but I have no idea and I think no-one can help as they don't know the people involved.
So I'm basically trying to play chess without knowing the rules..

Ah well, at least I learned a new language out of it.. shame it's an obscure one I'll probably never use

Ndatenda shamwari yangu - Thanks my friend.

 

[Maelstrom]

"Spiller, My general pattern is to try to stay in touch - wait for her - till I get a 'Not interested' signal even I can understand.. the last time, five years ago, I waited 18 months, this time it's been 10 months..

I've considered, for the first time, that it's possible she actually doesn't want to stay in touch so I've stopped communicating now (a first for me) and she hasn't got in touch herself in nearly 2 weeks..

I have no idea of a reasonable time scale, so I'll give it till Christmas and if I've heard nothing, I guess I know!

No! no! no! , Sigh! I know it is nice for a girl to let you know she likes you, but the nice ones hate doing that. Rule 1 2 3 4 5....etcetera... is you do everything first, all the time on..EVERYTHING! it isn't fair but that is how it works. If she wrote to you she likely liked you at least some...send her the singing Gorilla flower thing or poem if you still want her...and she still fair game...you can always say you were mostly being funny later. Ask her if she would like to see a concert with you, or a ice skating show, anything safe and entertaining..if you don't ask you have already lost. If she doesn't accept, well you did you best, and you don't have to worry about her any more, go find a new girl and chat her up, chat up a dozen girls, talk is free, and you never know who will like you.

 

[Spiller]

By 'Friendly' read 'Confused', though there isn't a button for that..

So you're saying.. keep trying?

.. Know when to quit!

Believe me, I've tried for a looong time..
.. Restaurant meals, several saturdays with the kids.. stuff..

I can't tell - I don't understand - when to quit!
If It's 'Different for everyone', how does anyone know?

I've encountered the NT suggestion of cultivating several female aquaintances at a time based on multiple sliding scales of attainability, but I'm afraid I'd feel deceitful to every one.

I get mixed signals - some suggestive (I think - Aaarrghhh, I don't knooow) invites/looks/words interspersed with periods of little contact..

What is (are) the signal(s) that let(s) you know you're pursuing an unattainable dream?

This wonderful lady I think I will treat as a friend only.. as she wants..

(Inclination: Feel guilty at moving on) Decision: How do I phrase this for the first time.. Time to emotionally detatch now, be open for future contacts..

Fair or not?

Sarai zvakanaka Ngirozi makanaka.. Stay well beautiful Angel.

Not you - but thanks, Mael

 

[Ste11aeres]

No! no! no! , Sigh! I know it is nice for a girl to let you know she likes you, but the nice ones hate doing that. Rule 1 2 3 4 5....etcetera... is you do everything first, all the time on..EVERYTHING! it isn't fair but that is how it works.

By 'Friendly' read 'Confused', though there isn't a button for that..

So you're saying.. keep trying?

.. Know when to quit!

Believe me, I've tried for a looong time..
.. Restaurant meals, several saturdays with the kids.. stuff..

I can't tell - I don't understand - when to quit!
If It's 'Different for everyone', how does anyone know?

I've encountered the NT suggestion of cultivating several female aquaintances at a time based on multiple sliding scales of attainability, but I'm afraid I'd feel deceitful to every one.

I get mixed signals - some suggestive (I think - Aaarrghhh, I don't knooow) invites/looks/words interspersed with periods of little contact..

What is (are) the signal(s) that let(s) you know you're pursuing an unattainable dream?

This wonderful lady I think I will treat as a friend only.. as she wants..

(Inclination: Feel guilty at moving on) Decision: How do I phrase this for the first time.. Time to emotionally detatch now, be open for future contacts..

Fair or not?

Sarai zvakanaka Ngirozi makanaka.. Stay well beautiful Angel.

Not you - but thanks, Mael

Some girls will be explicit, or try to make it obvious to a guy if they like him, but most women are influenced by our dating culture that says the man has to initiate everything. This dating culture of man pursuing, woman being passive, also makes it harder for a woman to tell a man that she doesn't like him. In movies, if a man is rejected by a woman, he's supposed to pursue until she changes her mind. In real life, that's harassment.
Yeah, so this communication thing, in the dating world, is pretty messed up.

 

[Spiller]

Ste11aeres, I have a completely novel idea - I can wear a mic and ear piece next time and you can tell me what to say
I totally get what you're saying and.. shoot me now!

 

[Cosmophylla]

I feel compelled by some invisible force to add to this thread. Something in me simply must offer you guys some support... Or a slightly different point of view, perhaps.

Let the record show that I am not NT.

So you're saying.. keep trying?..

I can't tell - I don't understand - when to quit!
If It's 'Different for everyone', how does anyone know?

To quote Yoda, "you will KNOW. When you are calm, at peace."

Seriously, when it is right, my belief is that you will know; or at least feel pretty damn good about it.

Some girls will be explicit, or try to make it obvious to a guy if they like him, but most women are influenced by our dating culture that says the man has to initiate everything. This dating culture of man pursuing, woman being passive, also makes it harder for a woman to tell a man that she doesn't like him. In movies, if a man is rejected by a woman, he's supposed to pursue until she changes her mind. In real life, that's harassment.
Yeah, so this communication thing, in the dating world, is pretty messed up.

I know it is nice for a girl to let you know she likes you, but the nice ones hate doing that. Rule 1 2 3 4 5....etcetera... is you do everything first, all the time on..EVERYTHING! it isn't fair but that is how it works. If she wrote to you she likely liked you at least some...send her the singing Gorilla flower thing or poem if you still want her...and she still fair game...you can always say you were mostly being funny later. Ask her if she would like to see a concert with you, or a ice skating show, anything safe and entertaining..if you don't ask you have already lost.

I can't help but notice you both bemoaning these dating rules. Now, I'm an Aspie so for me these rules governing dating are utter nonsense, but I can't help but think they are hopelessly outdated as well. Maybe it's a cultural thing... In Australia I think it's far less rigid.

Perhaps you should ask yourselves if you really want to be with someone for whom these rules are important? Seriously, if a guy sent me a singing gorilla or offered to take me to an ice skating show, I would run the other way. It's just way too cheesy for me, and makes me think, "does this guy not know me at ALL??? And will he ever know me, if this is what he thinks is OK to give???" If you really must give a gift, give something that is relevant to her interests. And if she doesn't appreciate that pot plant you bought, the meal at the Thai restaurant, or the metal band concert you took her to, whatever it is that addresses her interests and the fact that you get it, then she isn't the one for you.

If it means making little notes to yourself about stuff she's mentioned she likes (music, types of flower, food, etc.) then so be it. There is nothing wrong with researching her a little, as long as she doesn't find your notes. then again, if you honestly explain why you have a seemingly creepy list of notes about her (I.e. Because I get overwhelmed with everything and this is a way for me to remember the important stuff, or something like that) she may be touched by it and respond favourably. Women generally like honesty and sensitivity. Remember, they need someone to talk to...

Another thing I'd say is to look for someone with whom you have a lot in common. Not only someone who likes your special interest, but someone who has had similar life experiences. Someone you've got stuff to talk about with.

If a woman pursues you, go for it! These days it is totally ok. Rules shmules.

And it may be better to look for an Aspie partner, too. Someone who appreciates eccentricity and uniqueness.

If you're a member of a club, looking there for a partner is a good way to start. Or making friends with guys and socialising (eek!) with them can lead to meeting a woman. And there is online dating. I met my husband online 7 years ago. He stood out from the others who were just after a good time because he took the time to address our similarities, and show that we could be well suited. It worked.

Sorry, I know it's easy to say all this. I really do just want to cheer you up.

 

[Maelstrom]

"Spiller, So you're saying.. keep trying?

I've encountered the NT suggestion of cultivating several female aquaintances at a time based on multiple sliding scales of attainability, but I'm afraid I'd feel deceitful to every one.

I was thinking Spiller ,that with dating a aspie Girl you may have to go the extra 2 miles, they are as gun shy on dating stuff as us aspie guys. She could just think you aren't interested because she chickened out on the first date. Try to think from her point of view, and not just assume she has decided she doesn't want you. She hasn't actually told you to get lost so you may still have a chance if you can get her to spend some time with you.

And no I was not suggesting you date a whole bunch of girls at one time, I said chat some up, meaning say hello, make friends, and maybe the friendship might turn into a date down the road. Anyways the more you chat with the girls the less nervous you will be around them....think of it as practice.

As a autistic person I can barely handle reading one new girl, so dating more than one would likely overload me too much and not be fun for me.

I don't count casual PM stuff as dating, some people do, but then I'm not writing torrid romantic stuff either, just hello this is me. I can be romantic if I wish, but I save that for a more serious relationship, I don't do that for just any girl.

 

[Maelstrom]

"Cosmophylla,

To quote Yoda, "you will KNOW. When you are calm, at peace."
Seriously, when it is right, my belief is that you will know; or at least feel pretty damn good about it.

Um... Love you Cosmophylla , you wrote some very nice advice.

But I'm sorry! the answer on us guys knowing a girl wants to date us is (No!) Us guys read a huge amount less on those body language facial things even as NTs. I don't remember the numbers on the science study but I think we read less than 50% of what females, do add in the aspie thing and that could dip into the 10% range.

I have missed so many chances to date girls who had crushes on me, that it would qualify as a Greek tragedy. I even had one nice girl have some one ask me if I was still interested in dating her shortly before she got engaged to another guy. I thought it was a joke at the time, I had no idea she still liked me I thought she had moved on. I felt a little bad about it later, she was nice if I had known she liked me that much maybe I would have given her a chance. But I missed all those little clues, her changing her hair because I mentioned in passing I liked a certain hair do, or her trying out foods I said I liked. But I was overloaded at the time with collage and all just trying to survive...I missed tons of stuff.

And a aspie girl may give even less clues to a guy....basically the only way we guys know you girls like us is if you spend some extra time near us in some manner....we really don't see those signals you girls think are so obvious hardly at all....

 

[Maelstrom]

"Ste11aeres, post: 255170, member: 2094"]Some girls will be explicit, or try to make it obvious to a guy if they like him, but most women are influenced by our dating culture that says the man has to initiate everything. This dating culture of man pursuing, woman being passive, also makes it harder for a woman to tell a man that she doesn't like him. In movies, if a man is rejected by a woman, he's supposed to pursue until she changes her mind. In real life, that's harassment.
Yeah, so this communication thing, in the dating world, is pretty messed up.

I never chase a girl who doesn't wish it, but you have to give her a chance to say yes too. With a NT girl if she blew off the first date, she would likely be toast unless she had a very good reason like some died. But with a aspie girl it could also just be nervousness too....romance and all of it relations stuff is very...difficult for auties and aspies like us. Truly heroic efforts have to be made sometimes for us to not pull back in the face of all of it. I'm speaking from experiance on this, risking overload, humiliation, and ruin for love isn't a easy thing. So I basically was saying for Spiller to be sure before he moved on, I'd hate for him to miss his chance for a Cinderella ending just because he never checked to be sure she didn't like him. She did after all keep writing after the broken date...normally they just hide from you.

 

[Spiller]

Thanks greatly for the advice, Cosmophylla, it's all always welcome.. I think it's at least two 'Yes' votes from the men for the OP's original question though

I came right out and told this one how I felt, Maelstrom, and she made a little joke.. told her again, another little joke.
That was six weeks ago, she'll respond to a text about once a week now, so either the body language is too subtle for me or I've got to bow out now before I embarrass myself any more..
If that means she actually does like me then maybe she'll send a text asking how I am..

 

[Cosmophylla]

Um... Love you Cosmophylla , you wrote some very nice advice.

But I'm sorry! the answer on us guys knowing a girl wants to date us is (No!) Us guys read a huge amount less on those body language facial things even as NTs. I don't remember the numbers on the science study but I think we read less than 50% of what females, do add in the aspie thing and that could dip into the 10% range.

When I met my husband for the first couple of times (recall that we met online) I could not tell from his face that he liked me. It was when he kissed me, completely unexpectedly, that I worked it out! I was clueless, too.

I have missed so many chances to date girls who had crushes on me, that it would qualify as a Greek tragedy. I even had one nice girl have some one ask me if I was still interested in dating her shortly before she got engaged to another guy. I thought it was a joke at the time, I had no idea she still liked me I thought she had moved on. I felt a little bad about it later, she was nice if I had known she liked me that much maybe I would have given her a chance. But I missed all those little clues, her changing her hair because I mentioned in passing I liked a certain hair do, or her trying out foods I said I liked. But I was overloaded at the time with collage and all just trying to survive...I missed tons of stuff.

Then it was not meant to be. I've had LOADS of failed relationships, and what-ifs. In the end, if it doesn't work out, it wasn't meant to be. It's for the best. I know it's hard to think like that shortly after a failed romance, but in hindsight it becomes clearer.

And a aspie girl may give even less clues to a guy....basically the only way we guys know you girls like us is if you spend some extra time near us in some manner....we really don't see those signals you girls think are so obvious hardly at all....

She may, or she may not. I'm an Aspie and I have pursued many a guy (mostly out of desperation for acceptance, but that's another story). Remember we Aspie women are pretty good chameleons, so we can fake confidence while a relationship is getting off the ground. And again,I miss the signals, too. I'm too wound up in my own world to notice when I'm getting too possessive, etc. in the early days of our relationship, my husband and I were in rocky ground because I was so crazy! But something told us both that we were meant to be together. Then I got pregnant. you could always try that as a means of getting her to stick around! just kidding.

Truly heroic efforts have to be made sometimes for us to not pull back in the face of all of it. I'm speaking from experiance on this, risking overload, humiliation, and ruin for love isn't a easy thing.

Yep, that's true. Its never easy, but I don't think it should be. It's like feeling around in the dark, hoping you grab onto something good. But nothing ventured, nothing gained! You have to earn your reward

So I basically was saying for Spiller to be sure before he moved on, I'd hate for him to miss his chance for a Cinderella ending just because he never checked to be sure she didn't like him. She did after all keep writing after the broken date...normally they just hide from you.

Yes, definitely. Nothing wrong with a little, "how's everything going?" text. She may just be busy. I have friends like that. It's confusing that they don't respond to my texts sometimes, but do other times. But they stick around, so I just accept it.

That was six weeks ago, she'll respond to a text about once a week now, so either the body language is too subtle for me or I've got to bow out now before I embarrass myself any more..
If that means she actually does like me then maybe she'll send a text asking how I am..

I would not give up as quickly as that... Six weeks is the blink of an eye Can you try a slightly different tack? A slightly different sort of text, or something? Sorry, I don't know all the details (nor is it my business, I suppose...)

 

[Spiller]

Sorry, Cosmophylla, I could have been clearer - I've known her for 10 months, managed 3 meals and a few days with all our kids, learned her language and text her in that, told her how I feel.. this latest 6 weeks is just the most minimal contact so far.
Yes, she's busy, she may have problems, but I offer my help continously and she doesn't respond, doesn't tell me anything.
I basically get the occasional slight show of interest, then nothing for ages.. very mixed signals, unless I'm missing something.

Confusing.

 

[Cosmophylla]

Sorry, Cosmophylla, I could have been clearer - I've known her for 10 months, managed 3 meals and a few days with all our kids, learned her language and text her in that, told her how I feel.. this latest 6 weeks is just the most minimal contact so far.
Yes, she's busy, she may have problems, but I offer my help continously and she doesn't respond, doesn't tell me anything.
I basically get the occasional slight show of interest, then nothing for ages.. very mixed signals, unless I'm missing something.

Confusing.

Then it sounds like she's not that interested, and it may be best for you to withdraw your troops. seriously, I think you are reading the situation correctly. If she comes to you, great. But don't invest too much in it.

I hope I'm not sounding harsh.

 

[Cosmophylla]

I'm watching Star Trek Next Gen a lot at the moment (been ill for a couple of months, with a lot of bed rest... A good excuse to indulge in some sci fi) and I had a mini epiphany related to this topic... I don't know, maybe it's a bit of an oblique reference but perhaps it's relevant or at least interesting.

It's actually something that has puzzled me for ages. Next Gen is set a couple of centuries into the future, yet look at the interactions between males and females. They are firmly entrenched in the 20th century. I find it puzzling that the writers didn't seriously try to move on from social conventions or try to create new ones. Throughout the series there are references to sexism having long been left behind, and equality between men and women, and yet the characters go on "dates", males give females flowers, females wear heavy makeup and seductive clothing, males hold out chairs for females to sit down, and so on. Even now that seems so outdated to me! Maybe I'm just too highly evolved, teehee.

I love Star Trek for the science aspect, but it does make me a little sad that it seems to reinforce those stereotypical social mores. Not much help for Aspie guys if it looks like even ten generations from now those silly conventions will still be in place!