Why Men Are Walking Away From Dating

[Jonn]

No doubt.

I did an IQ test last week.
At the end of the tedious questions/puzzles, they wanted money before they gave the results.
I declined.

I then received an email informing me how interesting my results were.
I deleted it.

The next day, I received an email indicating that my results were very special.
Deleted the email again.

The next day, another email that I didn't even read.
I expect another one tomorrow.
It will be "interesting" to see how long this will go on for. lol

I am too psychologically cluey to fall for such an obvious attempt at manipulation.
Any result from an organisation like this would have no credibility after observing how they behaved, anyway.
Go to hell, I say, you wannabe money-grabbing grifters.

Spoiler: the saga continues <sigh>

Hey there,


This is the absolute final notice. Despite our previous messages, we noticed you still haven't claimed your IQ certificate and personalized cognitive report. Per our data retention policy, unclaimed results will expire tomorrow at midnight.


What Happens When Your Results Expire:

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Tomorrow, this opportunity disappears.
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P.S. Over 16,800 people claimed their results in the past week. Your personalized certificate and detailed cognitive profile are waiting for that final step.

 

[Hypnalis]

Here's one (isolated) perspective on the topic that I saw on YouTube yesterday.
NB: See below for info on the value of this as representative data (TLDR: it's anecdotal at best)

Underlines are unjustified blame allocation. This is routine though. IMO I think it demonstrates a bad attitude, but it's nearly normal IRL. The speaker may not be capable of seeing her personal issue any other way.

<TikTok video (XX presenter)>
Why are men not confident enough to walk up to women?
The masculinity on Earth has diminished drastically that guys don't even come up you from a distance.
As a woman who's trying to embody her feminine energy, you're not going to catch me going up to the guy.
You're just not. We can just stare at each other.
So, why are men not confident enough to walk up to women now?

We don't chase. We signal like you can come up to me now.
But all men do is just look at you now.
And of course, like if the woman is interested, she's going to keep looking your way, too.
But it just like stays like that.
Nothing ever happens because men don't walk up to women anymore.
Or you're just tired of being rejected.
Say shout out to the guys who are confident enough to walk up to woman because guys don't do that anymore.
If God were to guarantee that your 20th person would be the love of your life, you would be so happy to
be rejected by all 19.
Come on guys, you guys got to do better.
</TikTok video>

<YouTube Channel (XY presenter)>
Most men are done chasing a problem and a rejection.
It's even about confidence anymore.
High risk, low reward is the reason.
</YouTube Channel>

Note that the YouTube channel presenter doesn't bother with an explanation of "why" this TikTok exists - they're quite common. Similarly there's no need to explain when context, nor analyze the useful and misleading parts of the TikTok. That information is already part of the "common knowledge" of XY YouTube.

On YouTube there's definitely an XY-centric "market" for this kind of thing..
And OFC since there's an established market, there are YouTubers who scour TikTok for "product" for their videos, which means there's a definite (and quite obvious if you know how to look "selection bias" for such content).

FWIW, I've seen quite a lot of this kind of content on YouTube over the last few years. It is gradually changing.
My impression is the the frequency is up, but equally interestingly the average apparent age of the presenters of the source videos seem to be falling over the last couple of years (from from 40ish to 30ish (reminder: that's a guesstimate of the the average)).

Data quality:
Generally when I quote some data herein AF I have good reason to trust it. And I sometimes point out that an isolated anecdote, being a single point of data , can't be used to draw inferences. That definitely applies to this video.
It says more about what some people like to watch on TikTok (which I don't use at all) and YouTube than it serves as a reliable indicator of what's happening IRL in the "dating market".

So it's probably not worse than the "seed article" I linked or the link in the OP, but nor is it any better.

 

[Jonn]

Data quality:
Generally when I quote some data herein AF I have good reason to trust it. And I sometimes point out that an isolated anecdote, being a single point of data , can't be used to draw inferences. That definitely applies to this video.
It says more about what some people like to watch on TikTok (which I don't use at all) and YouTube than it serves as a reliable indicator of what's happening IRL in the "dating market".

So it's probably not worse than the "seed article" I linked or the link in the OP, but nor is it any better.

My intent behind much of what I post is to inspire conversation.
A video might simply be an invitation to an informal/casual discussion to inspire the development of personal insight.
Often, it is "A Work in Progress" for me.

 

[Hypnalis]

My intent behind much of what I post is to inspire conversation.
A video might simply be an invitation to an informal/casual discussion to inspire the development of personal insight.
Often, it is "A Work in Progress" for me.

Yes - I got that from the OP. And it's been interesting so far

My previous post has a similar intent. The most important part isn't the overt content, but that such content exists, is part of an established YouTube niche, and seems to be changing over time.

 

[Outdated]

NB: See below for info on the value of this as representative data (TLDR: it's anecdotal at best)

The messages in those tiktoks don't match my experience.

Some women will approach the man first and some won't. I always waited for women to approach me for several reasons.

The first and most prominent of those is that I often simply don't notice that they're trying to attract my attention. Somehow they seem to know that I'm not deliberately ignoring them but instead just haven't noticed and that seems to inspire them to be even more forward.

A woman that approaches a man has already decided what she wants and there's no silly games and indecisiveness.

Quite often women that want the man to approach them aren't really interested in a sexual relationship but instead just like feeling flattered by the attention. Where's the fun in that for me?

The few times I chased after a girl when I was young it always ended in disappointment, waiting for them to come to me was always much more rewarding. And I certainly didn't miss out on much in life.

 

[Jonn]

The messages in those tiktoks don't match my experience.

Some women will approach the man first and some won't. I always waited for women to approach me for several reasons.

You have natural charisma.
You are an outlier on the autistic spectrum/bell-curve, remember?

 

[thejuice]

Nothing ever happens because men don't walk up to women anymore

Come on guys, you guys got to do better.
</TikTok video>

Talking about Pick Up Artist stuff is socially forbidden.
Women friends I've asked don't tend to like, or feel qualified, to give advice to men.
The information gap is filled by wiley, opportunist salesmen on social media.
So men aren't getting good advice on how to approach, especially in an area with rapid social normative changes.
There appears to be a trend of single men retreating into porn, where there is zero chance of rejection or criticism, a polygamous fantasy that welcomes you with open arms (and legs).
We have not evolved resilience to the infinite novelty of it all. It's the new opiate of the masses. (At least for a lot of single men)
There appears to be less and less motivation to take the risks needed in the real world, partly because our dopamine reward system is currently dysfunctional.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Outdated

It doesn't match my personal experience either. Mine is closer to yours (though with probably an order of magnitude more missed signals and unjustified avoidance

But there have been many changes since then. One that I think has already come up here:

The negative effects of hypergamy have been amplified by dating apps and online connectivity in general, so XX's want "better" XY's than is statistically reasonable.
This will inevitably lead to a historically severe mismatch between XX's and XY's access to potential mates.
For XX's it's perceived as refusing to select due to low quality, and by XY's and being refused contact.

There's a lot more to this of course, most of it bad, but also off topic.

A couple of other things that come up often in the comments to videos like that one:
* A perceived bias in Family Courts. I see this quite often online:
"Men aren't afraid of marriage, they're afraid of divorce".
I don't have any direct experience of this, but the anecdotes sound bad.
Either way, perception often drives behavior. And if "the 90%" of XY's don't want marriage (which has a very high failure rate) and children, you'd expect that to influence behavior in the "dating market".

* The online perception is that the effects of "MeToo" and a lot of similar stuff (some of which is arguably off topic) makes XX/XY interactions far more risky for XY's than was the case in the past.
This is a "tail-risk" situation: an objectively low(ish) probability with an extremely high potential downside.

Naturally avoiding any/all of those risks doesn't matter to the men who are pushed out of the game by hypergamy.
But it will affect XY's propensity to approach XX's "in the wild".

If you treat "the game" as a market (which isn't unreasonable, but it's not a perfect model either), a failure of the market to clear will affect the 'price", and over time it the market will adapt towards clearing.

But given that it's actually people involved, not products, any adjustments will be slow (years, perhaps a decade or two), and uncomfortable for many of the participants.

 

[Outdated]

You are an outlier on the autistic spectrum/bell-curve, remember?

That certainly plays a part but there were a lot of other factors too.

I was a regular part of the local crowd in the pub and often quite vocal meaning I attracted attention. In this situation women had a chance to watch me without me even knowing they were there. So between things I said and how people reacted and responded to me they had a reasonable assessment of my nature before approaching me.

How you portray yourself in public like that is pretty important. You don't have to do much wrong to make a woman change her mind and turn away from you. A misogynistic joke will do that quicker than pretty much anything else. So will any sort of display of anger management issues such as yelling and screaming at the football on TV.

You have to wear a mask in public anyway, why not make it a good one that people like?

 

[Crossbreed]

When the meanings of male/female, men/women, sex/gender etc stabilize again I'll switch back.

In the meantime I use the most convenient short form that conveys what I mean with restricting others from using the still-variable terms.

Those contemporary terms are cis-men & cis-women, though I prefer the synonym Edenic over cis.

 

[Outdated]

Those contemporary terms are cis-men & cis-women...

First time I heard that term I thought he was calling me a sissy. I doubt he uses that term any more.

 

[Hypnalis]

Those contemporary terms are cis-men & cis-women, though I prefer the synonym Edenic over cis.

I remember using "cis-" and "trans-" quite long ago when studying stereoisomers in Chemistry.
In this context "cis" is a deliberately politicized neologism. It's not currently part of "mainstream" English.

Wikitionary says "Edenic" is a religious term, so that's even less appealing.

BTW I don't mean they're not in some permissive descriptive dictionary. Words often come and go without ever being used by the majority. The test, given the frequency with which the root words are used, will be mass acceptance.

 

[Crossbreed]

All of that is true, but it communicates effectively now. I use Edenic in a more refined way than the current dictionary definition, for male, female & sexuality as defined in Genesis 2:24.

In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, Iron Butterfly (1968)

 

[Misery]

This is one of those topics that I always find interesting, as people's behavior just fascinates me.

I've spent a whole bunch of time (too much) exploring and observing to try to get an understanding of this specific thing (because I hear about it so freaking much in recent times and I have the curiosity of a cat). My thoughts are this: A lot of it comes from the internet, and I dont mean places like Twitter. That place might be a constant fountain of awfulness, but it's not enough to produce this effect on its own. Same with Tiktok, or Youtube.

Rather, it is certain large communities. Desperate people go in and are exposed to a sort of... negative mental health crab bucket. Once in there, it is VERY hard to get back out, because someone will always grab you and try to pull you back in.

And what happens in those places is just, well... I've been on the internet for a long time and have seen a lot of awful stuff. But those sorts of places go beyond any of that. I've never seen such a vortex of utter terribleness anywhere else on the Net. Awful behavior, even more awful things said and repeated (some of which should be considered extremely dangerous warning signs to anyone who knows the person), and all of it forcibly drilled into any new user unfortunate enough to find the place. Many of the most utterly reprehensible people, the absolute worst of the worst, call it home.

Everyone in these places is obsessed, like DEEPLY obsessed, with finding a girlfriend (or whatever).

And the real focus of these places is to install in people the idea that it's not their fault they cant find one, that it's someone else's fault, that surely THEY dont have any flaws... the world is against them.

Not only does nobody ever take responsibility for their own actions, failures, mistakes, and whatever, but they will often spiral into a very deep loathing for anyone who they are convinced to believe is to blame for their plight. Often, this includes the very women (or whoever) they so desperately seek, leading to absurdly misogynistic and hateful ideas. Instilling bigotry in general, really.

It can get a lot worse than that, too... I'm not exaggerating one bit when I say some of it is extremely dangerous.

And always, that one theme... the refusal to take responsibility... is running through it. It is ALWAYS someone else's fault. Always. They blame those they lust after. They blame gay or trans people. They blame authorities. They blame the rules of society. They blame their own genetics. They blame family members. They blame bad luck. And of course, they all blame each other too, while at the exact same time boosting these ideas in everyone else there.

They do not, for even a second, look inward. Mistakes? No, they never make mistakes. It's everyone else who is out to get them. If someone suggests to them that maybe they should get off the bloody internet and take some steps to ACTUALLY boost themselves up? No. It's so much easier to just stay online and listen to others tell them how it's not their fault and how they should hate X instead, whoever or whatever X is. And of course, dopamine bursts can often go along with that. It's part of what makes an echo chamber function.


Now, of course, this sort of behavior, these whirlpools of awfulness, arent just about dating and whatnot. There are other types, though I wont mention them here. The internet acts as a breeding ground for this stuff. Social media amplifies it, specifically by encouraging an addiction to being online as a whole, but the core of it is deeper.

Some other things also amplify it, like the "manosphere" and whatnot (and that can also lead to someone finding these places later on).

And of course the pandemic just made it that much worse as people were funneled towards the internet in general during lockdown.


This is all just my thoughts on it, of course, it's not universal. There's always more to something like this, more potential reasons that differ from these ideas, different ways that someone gets into the mindset or whatever.

 

[Jonn]

Spoiler: the saga continues <sigh>

Hey there,


This is the absolute final notice. Despite our previous messages, we noticed you still haven't claimed your IQ certificate and personalized cognitive report. Per our data retention policy, unclaimed results will expire tomorrow at midnight.


What Happens When Your Results Expire:

• Your test responses will be removed from our system
• Your personalized certificate will no longer be available
• Your cognitive profile and strengths analysis will be lost
• Your benchmark comparisons to global averages will be reset

Why myIQ Users Value Their Results:​

• Validity: Our assessment is built on established cognitive science principles
• Personalized Insights: Discover your unique pattern of strengths across multiple intelligence domains
• Practical Applications: Each report includes tailored recommendations to leverage your cognitive advantages
• Ongoing Development: Access training exercises specifically designed for your cognitive profile

Since you've already completed the hard part (the assessment), you're just one click away from gaining these valuable insights into your cognitive potential.


Tomorrow, this opportunity disappears.
To your cognitive success,
The myIQ Team


P.S. Over 16,800 people claimed their results in the past week. Your personalized certificate and detailed cognitive profile are waiting for that final step.

Spoiler: this is the ABSOLUTE absolute final notice! lol

Hey there,


We've detected that your personalized IQ assessment results are still unclaimed. Our system is showing this is your second-to-last notification before permanent deletion.


Only 12 hours remain before your results are permanently erased.


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[Jonn]

Talking about Pick Up Artist stuff is socially forbidden.
Women friends I've asked don't tend to like, or feel qualified, to give advice to men.
The information gap is filled by wiley, opportunist salesmen on social media.
So men aren't getting good advice on how to approach, especially in an area with rapid social normative changes.
There appears to be a trend of single men retreating into porn, where there is zero chance of rejection or criticism, a polygamous fantasy that welcomes you with open arms (and legs).
We have not evolved resilience to the infinite novelty of it all. It's the new opiate of the masses. (At least for a lot of single men)
There appears to be less and less motivation to take the risks needed in the real world, because our dopamine system is currently dysfunctional.

The #MeToo phenomenon may have caused men to be hesitant in approaching women, for a time at least.
Just a thought.

 

[Jonn]

The negative effects of hypergamy have been amplified by dating apps and online connectivity in general, so XX's want "better" XY's than is statistically reasonable.
This will inevitably lead to a historically severe mismatch between XX's and XY's access to potential mates.
For XX's it's perceived as refusing to select due to low quality, and by XY's and being refused contact.

Ppl do use dating apps, but how frequent is it in the entire dating population?

A couple of other things that come up often in the comments to videos like that one:
* A perceived bias in Family Courts. I see this quite often online:
"Men aren't afraid of marriage, they're afraid of divorce".
I don't have any direct experience of this, but the anecdotes sound bad.

Losing half of your assets when a marriage goes wrong is a frightening prospect.

* The online perception is that the effects of "MeToo" and a lot of similar stuff (some of which is arguably off topic) makes XX/XY interactions far more risky for XY's than was the case in the past.

You beat me to it, in regard to #MeToo.

Naturally avoiding any/all of those risks doesn't matter to the men who are pushed out of the game by hypergamy.
But it will affect XY's propensity to approach XX's "in the wild".

I would think so.

There was a prominent court case here in Australia involving sexual harassment in the workplace.
As a result, it was later noticed that male coworkers were more hesitant in having lunch breaks with female colleagues.

 

[Jonn]

That certainly plays a part but there were a lot of other factors too.

I was a regular part of the local crowd in the pub and often quite vocal meaning I attracted attention. In this situation women had a chance to watch me without me even knowing they were there. So between things I said and how people reacted and responded to me they had a reasonable assessment of my nature before approaching me.

Your ability to socialise effectively in an NT environment is atypical for most ppl on the spectrum.
Many of us would find it rather uninteresting.
What sorts of things did you talk about?
Can you imagine Hypnalis engaging in lengthy discussions about the weather and football?

How you portray yourself in public like that is pretty important. You don't have to do much wrong to make a woman change her mind and turn away from you. A misogynistic joke will do that quicker than pretty much anything else. So will any sort of display of anger management issues such as yelling and screaming at the football on TV.

You have to wear a mask in public anyway, why not make it a good one that people like?

I think you may be missing something here.
Your public mask, or more to the point, your visual appeal, may be just as important as the way you behave.

 

[Crossbreed]

Your public mask, or more to the point, your visual appeal, may be just as important as the way you behave.

Not if she is neur-D, too.

 

[Outdated]

Desperate people go in and are exposed to a sort of... negative mental health crab bucket.

Thank you so much for that description, you have a brilliant mind. Yes I'm stealing that phrase. No, I have no shame.

Everyone in these places is obsessed, like DEEPLY obsessed, with finding a girlfriend (or whatever).

So they stalk around the place acting like predators and then don't understand why all women run away from them screaming.

And the real focus of these places is to install in people the idea that it's not their fault they cant find one....

Sadly this is the mentality of a lot of people from all walks of life and it's one of the greatest societal problems we face in a modern world. There's even quite a few people in this forum that behave like that, not at all concerned with how they might overcome their hurdles in life, they just want someone to blame it on. Blame it on vaccines, blame it on food colourings and preservatives, blame it on accidentally inhaling Hesgeth's smelly breath.

And riding on the back of that mentality is "I shouldn't have to do anything to overcome any hurdles in life. It's not my fault so someone else should fix it for me.".

What sorts of things did you talk about?

I have an eidetic memory and I'm interested in an incredibly broad range of subjects, about the only thing I can't talk about is football which contrary to popular belief is not as popular as many people like to think. I have also travelled a lot and experienced a lot which gives me a lot to add to conversations.

Your public mask, or more to the point, your visual appeal, may be just as important as the way you behave.

Then how do fat blokes always seem to end up with a hot girlfriend?