Why is my ASD son doing this?

[The Lorax]

A little background for the question...
My son is in high school now. He is 15.
He is mild ASD and almost a genius level intelligence. The excellent psychologists we have had said he will be fine as an adult. As you all know 80% of ASDs have trouble coping in the real world trying to find meaningful work that pays the bills. He is the 20%.

We didn't realize his condition until around 8. He passed the ASD test at the age of 5. But we suspected something was off since he was a baby. We thought he had ODD. Needless to say the home was incredibly stressful until he was 13. On occasion we lost it. No physical or verbal abuse. Just the old yelling telling him what to do something after we had enough. Once we realized fully how he is by observation and so much reading there is no more yelling. Which was mostly 1-2x a year we were just had enough.

Anyways that was needed for the question.

If I ask him to do something more than twice he starts chanting "I'm sorry" and goes into shut down mode. No matter how friendly, funny, cheery, happy, I make it. I even say no one is mad at you we are here to help.

A simple example is he has been up for an hour and asking him to get ready for school to be on time. He is always late which interferes with my work. If I push it now has cost me an extra hour as he shuts down. No reward systems do not work with him, we tried.

But overall he is a good kid. Doesn't do stupid things. Self manages his school work.

Why this chant and shutdown over simple things? Yes he likes school.

 

[SDRSpark]

Look up "Pathological Demand Avoidance" (PDA) - the brain basically shuts down whenever it sees something it perceives as a demand (even if that demand comes from the person with the condition...for example someone with PDA might think to themselves "I have to take out the trash" and the brain goes NOPE NOT GOING TO BE DOING THAT *shutdown*).

There's also plain old executive dysfunction, where the brain just sort of...fails to initiate tasks. (I can sit there staring at a glass of water and thinking "wow I'm really thirsty!" for a really long time...my brain just fails to initiate picking up the glass and drinking it. Also, I can walk around all day with a headache and just...fail to remember to take some aspirin, you'd think the headache would be a good motivator to do that but nope.)

Both PDA and executive dysfunction issues are really common among the neurodiverse.

 

[SDRSpark]

Also, people who experience either PDA or Executive Dysfunction are likely aware that they're not doing what they're expected and may well feel a lot of guilt or shame about that...hence the apologizing (if that's what's going on with your son). Motivation doesn't work because it's a brain issue, it's not that he doesn't want to do the thing. His brain just won't cooperate with doing the thing.

 

[Judge]

Is it possible you're simply looking too hard into what might otherwise be a rather common scenario?

Many teenagers resent nagging parents. ASD or NT...doesn't matter. All the more reason to consider given he seems like a good kid otherwise. It's more common than you may think. Otherwise articles like this wouldn't be so easy to find:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...812/why-you-should-stop-nagging-your-teenager

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Having raised 2 neurotypical boys,...some of that "absent mindedness" is just being a hormonal, distracted teenager. Every fricken night,...did you brush your teeth,...did you use soap,...put on the deodorant,...sit down and study,...yada, yada, yada. Every night,...holy Moses. Finally get one kid to start acting normal,...then it was the other one's turn to be stupid. Welcome to parenting,...wow.

The shutdown thing,...that may be a combination of teenage low self-esteem, some degree of being ashamed of himself, some frustration with not remembering, and perhaps a bit of autism. My boys would get all pissed and lock themselves in their room,...all in a day as a parent. They got over it. Both are successful engineers and doing well on their own,...one married now.

 

[Matthias]

A little background for the question...
My son is in high school now. He is 15.
He is mild ASD and almost a genius level intelligence. The excellent psychologists we have had said he will be fine as an adult. As you all know 80% of ASDs have trouble coping in the real world trying to find meaningful work that pays the bills. He is the 20%.

We didn't realize his condition until around 8. He passed the ASD test at the age of 5. But we suspected something was off since he was a baby. We thought he had ODD. Needless to say the home was incredibly stressful until he was 13. On occasion we lost it. No physical or verbal abuse. Just the old yelling telling him what to do something after we had enough. Once we realized fully how he is by observation and so much reading there is no more yelling. Which was mostly 1-2x a year we were just had enough.

Anyways that was needed for the question.

If I ask him to do something more than twice he starts chanting "I'm sorry" and goes into shut down mode. No matter how friendly, funny, cheery, happy, I make it. I even say no one is mad at you we are here to help.

A simple example is he has been up for an hour and asking him to get ready for school to be on time. He is always late which interferes with my work. If I push it now has cost me an extra hour as he shuts down. No reward systems do not work with him, we tried.

But overall he is a good kid. Doesn't do stupid things. Self manages his school work.

Why this chant and shutdown over simple things? Yes he likes school.

People often shutdown because of their emotions. The emotions people experience are strongly influenced by their beliefs and experiences. For example, if he is forgetful and thinks there is something wrong with him or people treated him negatively because of it, anything that reminds him that he is forgetful (such as reminding him three times) can trigger emotions based on those beliefs and experiences. People who experience distressing emotions in response to stuff that doesn't bother most people often think there is something wrong with them which further adds to their emotional distress. If the emotions he experiences are too stressful or overwhelming, he may shutdown because of it.

The way to treat it is to help him understand his emotions and help him change any beliefs that may trigger them. An important question to ask him when he is calm is how he feels about being forgetful or how he feels about being autistic. If he thinks he is deeply flawed, defective, or that he doesn't belong because of his forgetfulness or autistic traits in general, then anything that reminds him of it can automatically trigger emotions based on those beliefs without him thinking anything when it happens.

If you're interested in learning more, the psychological term for what I described above is called classical conditioning and beliefs that trigger intense emotions are often based on cognitive distortions.

 

[Matthias]

Many teenagers resent nagging parents. ASD or NT...doesn't matter...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...812/why-you-should-stop-nagging-your-teenager

Good article. I think everyone, regardless of their age, dislikes negativity. It's not helpful, makes people feel worse, weakens relationships, and often has the opposite effect since people are less likely to listen to people whose actions result in them feeling worse.

If @The Lorax praised his son when he was on time, he would feel better and be more likely to get ready on time in the future since people are more likely to listen to people whose actions result in them feeling better.

 

[Jordy]

Honestly i can't stand when someone asks me to do something NOW, i want to wait 15 minutes first so i can do it on my own. And when people repeat it pisses me of and i might just not do it at all.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Your son will be OK in a few more years I managed to raise two boys. thier minds are maturing,
pushing boundaries. six I cut mine a lot of slack just as my parents did when we were young. Six bright kids 5 of them boys I do not know how my parents did it most of the time my mother was clueless. My dad was bright and I quess understood us.

 

[Gracey]

Would your son understand a 'transference timer'?

A little alarm set to go off when it's time to transfer to the next task.
An audible sound marking the end of a measurement of time and the beginning of another

If you were to introduce a transference timer you would have to make sure your son understands the concept and involve him in the programming. eg, going through the process of getting ready for school. Many separate tasks. Let him decide the measurement of time for each.

Done correctly, it's a handy tool.
Incorrectly and you'll exasperate the issue.


If he's at the mercy of rampant hormones befuddling his poor brain you're fortunate he can string the words "I'm sorry" together let alone get through the many separate tasks required to 'get ready for school'

One of mine did okay with clock faces and action pictures. Clock face indicted 'time to', action picture gave cue.
It appeared like regression given their age and all they'd achieve up until that time but was just a gentle reminder of the process of getting ready for school, (particularly with teenage hormones running amok amongst the synapses)

Failing the above, I'd assist in the process of getting ready for school indirectly.
Be it a countdown "two minutes remaining to complete brushing teeth. Following task: clean underwear and socks"

or actually going into their room to ask if they'd like me to help them get ready for school. If so, what may I help with?

-if I could verbally present a tiny problem for them to solve, ie how I could assist, choose a shirt to wear, which underwear and socks would they choose today?
it engaged the prefrontal cortex and bypassed the amygdala altogether getting us to school on time.
Most days it worked. Some days it didn't

 

[Aspychata]

As a teen, l always felt l wasn't measuring up to whatever standards l had in my warped teenager brain. So l constantly felt and said sorry for myself. Low self-esteem.

 

[Suzette]

People often shutdown because of their emotions. The emotions people experience are strongly influenced by their beliefs and experiences. For example, if he is forgetful and thinks there is something wrong with him or people treated him negatively because of it, anything that reminds him that he is forgetful (such as reminding him three times) can trigger emotions based on those beliefs and experiences. People who experience distressing emotions in response to stuff that doesn't bother most people often think there is something wrong with them which further adds to their emotional distress. If the emotions he experiences are too stressful or overwhelming, he may shutdown because of it.

The way to treat it is to help him understand his emotions and help him change any beliefs that may trigger them. An important question to ask him when he is calm is how he feels about being forgetful or how he feels about being autistic. If he thinks he is deeply flawed, defective, or that he doesn't belong because of his forgetfulness or autistic traits in general, then anything that reminds him of it can automatically trigger emotions based on those beliefs without him thinking anything when it happens.

If you're interested in learning more, the psychological term for what I described above is called classical conditioning and beliefs that trigger intense emotions are often based on cognitive distortions.

This describes my teen years perfectly!

I am 54 and I still have trouble reading others emotions. Mearly "annoyed" can look angry, dissapointed etc. If your son has any degree of Alexithymia, he may misinterpret your facial expression and become overwhelmed by his own emotional response. Especially when I was younger I would seem to crash from happy to fearful in the blink of an eye and it was impossible to describe why.

As Matthias suggests, discussing emotions would help a lot. Don't say dismissive things in response to what he tells you. Acknowledge his confusion and work together to find a solution. Preferably a solution where he feels in control and is able to use his agency to feel good about himself. Without too much external promoting and encouragement because that can feel patronizing.

Schedules, routines and timers can all be used to great effect. And please have set chores. Don't just throw random chores his way. Make him responsible for getting things done and give him the resources he needs to be sucessful.

 

[Laura K]

I love it when the poster said it’s a repeat of the terrible twos! Having been there with teens of my own, I can attest that this is correct. It takes a lot of patience and someday you’ll have a terrific 17 year old.

In the meantime, try asking him to use another phrase other than I’m sorry. Maybe that will catch him off guard enough to digress from these behaviors, for awhile anyway.

 

[Au Naturel]

What SDASpark just said: PDA.

 

[Au Naturel]

I love it when the poster said it’s a repeat of the terrible twos! Having been there with teens of my own, I can attest that this is correct. It takes a lot of patience and someday you’ll have a terrific 17 year old.

In the meantime, try asking him to use another phrase other than I’m sorry. Maybe that will catch him off guard enough to digress from these behaviors, for awhile anyway.

My kids' twos were not terrible at all. They were wonderful! Their teens were a horror show.

 

[Laura K]

My kids' twos were not terrible at all. They were wonderful! Their teens were a horror show.

Lucky you!! My only consolation was that I knew the three’s were around ther corner.

 

[Raggamuffin]

I say sorry all the time, as a mantra. I say sorry so much that is starts to annoy or offend people. When I see their annoyance, guess what I say? I find that if someone needs something - I have to get it done then and there. As such, someone asking me to do something might not be required immediately, but that's how my brain processes it. Besides, if I don't do it now - I'll forget. And I forget stuff all the time. Forgetting to do stuff can lead to friction, and I carry out the Fawn Response daily to avoid any sort of confrontation.

Getting flustered over seemingly trivial matters is quite common. Also, repeatedly being told to do something can trigger this. One that always sets me off is if I'm being disturbed whilst I'm in the middle of doing something. Problem is, when you start to visibly and audibly lose your patience over something inconsequential, you're met with a set menu of responses "there's no need to get angry" or "no, you don't need to do that now!" etc. etc.

It could be something important, or easy, or trivial, or fun. It doesn't matter. If I'm in the middle of something and someone begins to talk - the tension builds rapidly. Their words might as well just be tears and screaming from a crying baby - that's how my brain processes it.

I've always been this way, and I wonder why others haven't learnt my process. Then again, I'm surprised I haven't learned better methods to deescalate emotions during such situations.

Ed

 

[Streetwise]

A little background for the question...
My son is in high school now. He is 15.
He is mild ASD and almost a genius level intelligence. The excellent psychologists we have had said he will be fine as an adult. As you all know 80% of ASDs have trouble coping in the real world trying to find meaningful work that pays the bills. He is the 20%.

We didn't realize his condition until around 8. He passed the ASD test at the age of 5. But we suspected something was off since he was a baby. We thought he had ODD. Needless to say the home was incredibly stressful until he was 13. On occasion we lost it. No physical or verbal abuse. Just the old yelling telling him what to do something after we had enough. Once we realized fully how he is by observation and so much reading there is no more yelling. Which was mostly 1-2x a year we were just had enough.

Anyways that was needed for the question.

If I ask him to do something more than twice he starts chanting "I'm sorry" and goes into shut down mode. No matter how friendly, funny, cheery, happy, I make it. I even say no one is mad at you we are here to help.

A simple example is he has been up for an hour and asking him to get ready for school to be on time. He is always late which interferes with my work. If I push it now has cost me an extra hour as he shuts down. No reward systems do not work with him, we tried.

But overall he is a good kid. Doesn't do stupid things. Self manages his school work.

Why this chant and shutdown over simple things? Yes he likes school.

Perceives stress, possible anger ,his what clinical psychologist's call 2nd brain (panic attack
cannot! Perceive complex speech, so socialisation is non existent, amygdala takes over) then coping mechanism I'm sorry ,he needs lessons now on how to live alone actual lessons going to the bank ,shopping for groceries with in a budget,maintaining a home I WISH my mother had taught me it was catastrophic when she died I was suicidal that's what schools should be teaching not algebra

 

[The Lorax]

These are all really excellent answers.

For a while we rented a room to a single mom and her son when he was about 7. I got to see what an NT child was like. His father died and his mom was working best she could. So I helped her. Anyways her NT child was super easy. Reward system always worked. I could easily motivate him.

My son none of the above worked. The more I go against what he wants and how he wants it the more it escalates. As for bedtime or waking up once he gets going he does what needs to be done. On occasion I need to ask him to brush his teeth. If he doesn't want to do it he won't no matter what. He also flosses thus never a cavity.

I think the first reply might be right. I tried all the below that. Very frustrating.

Like here is this mess. I sleep light. My wife and I watched a movie with headphones. We went to bed around 11am. At 12am in my sleep I here a "click". BOING I wake up. I know that sound. I go to the hallway and see his computer light on. I go in and he is playing a new video game at midnight. He immediately jumps into bed. I am now awake strategizing how to deal with this crap tomorrow because the impact will be huge. If he isn't asleep by 10pm he will not wake up for school.

Now he rarely does this. I think maybe once before. An NT kid I would wake him up, he would get to school tired and pay the "iron price" for his behavior. He loses his computer privileges for the day. Now I might ask him to do some chores and help me and I would remove the restrictions. Especially if he got up on time and went. Easy.

With him no. I have to strategize the best approach to deal with this without escalating. He broke the rules, he knows why. He did it on purpose. There has to be consequences.

Currently he is sitting in bed with his pillow over his head because he doesn't want to get up because he didn't get enough sleep. He won't take his pills and won't eat. Which he needs to.

I do help him.
I am his executive function.
I try to be very careful how much I approach not to upset him.

I have a friend that has a 17 year old with some kind of disorder. Unfortunately he really hasn't had good doctors in his area. The kid is literally a genius. Vapes, pot, snorts crushed Adderol. He is so addicted that without it he can't eat or sleep. My friend says the child makes life at home as difficult as possible for them. He is a good kind empathetic person that I have never seen mad. Both very smart with degrees in various fields. They have a 2nd smart child normal child that is wonderful. It has come to the point they have to put the 1st son in some sort of institute to clean him up. The kid went so far to fake urine drug tests at home. They need to go to therapy every week. They believe he has personality disorder + ADHD. I feel bad for the kid and the parents. He is a genius and can be/do whatever he wants but the miswired neurology is killing him.

So what do I do about what he did last night? I mean I have a plan but would what would any of you do in my situation?

 

[The Lorax]

BTW I don't nag him. I was pretty self aware that when I was a kid and nagged it didn't do crap for me.