Why do non-autistics lie to their kids?

[Progster]

My parents actually had a good approach to things like this. It wasn't my ability or result that was praised or ctiticised, but the effort I put into in. So, if I was writing or drawing something, and had put a lot of effort into it, then I was praised for my effort. Good effort often brings good results, and that was also praised. If the effort didn't yield good results, that didn't matter, I was still praised for making the effort. However, if no effort was put into something (usually yielding mediocre results), then I was not praised but criticised and told to try harder nest time. I think that this was fair, and something that I try to apply to my students.

 

[WildCat]

..."People" are rational. Well, some of them are (like me). If someone is irrational, that's their problem, and I should not have to lie, or "walk on eggshells", simply because they have a fragile ego, one that requires they retreat from reality into a silly safe-space...

You do have to walk on eggshells actually. If you're frustrated about this, know that many people (including myself) share the same feelings about it, but you still have to suck it up and fake it at the least. It's good that you know about this unwritten rule, but it exists for a reason along with all those other unwritten rules.

If we all started telling the "truth" (which BTW isn't always true and is just an approximation or a stab at what really is, hence the quotes) and started cutting loose with those forbidden thoughts in the back of our heads, I don't think it would bode over well at all.

 

[SunnyDay16]

Yes, I know that. I didn't endorse being "an insufferable prick". However, I would rather have to deal with a "prick" who is decent enough to tell me the truth (ex. a doctor - "you've only got five days to live"), than someone who in their mind believes I'm not good enough, or strong enough, to handle the truth (or constructive criticism), and thinks that lying to me is a suitable response to my question.



I was just using that as an example. If I were to put on weight I KNOW that I would not want people to say, "No, don't be silly, you're still thin".



Hmmm... I'm now thinking of all those young people on American/Australian/Other Country Idol who think they can sing, and when told they can't break down into tears because their "friends" told them they actually had talent.

I do understand what you're saying. There are definitely situations where telling the truth is important, even vital. Obesity is obviously one of them. However, what some people consider to be "the truth" is really just their opinion. For example, a homophobic person telling a gay person they are going to hell may believe they're spreading the truth, but in reality it's just their subjective opinion. I've noticed that many people who pride themselves on telling the truth tend to give their opinions when they're not asked for or warranted. They also feel that their opinion is absolute fact. I've known quite a few people like this.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your mind, but people are emotional by nature so one must tread carefully in how they will do that. People don't care for people who treat their viewpoints as fact and just criticize for the sake of it. It just screams arrogance and insecurity. Some situations just don't call for criticizing, especially when there's children involved. Obviously, if it's a situation where a child is trying to improve a skill or learn something, then that's an acceptable situation to criticize, but even then it's important to choose your words carefully.

 

[VioletHaze_03]

My mom was brutally honest with me. If my artwork was crap, she'd tell me it was crap. When i tried to power through my anxiety and perform for a singing contest that i practiced for two months, her only comment was that i was "off key." When i bawled my eyes out, she told me how great it was to be honest instead of lying, and that being honest instead of comforting me and telling me i tried my best meant she loved me. She's honest and critical, like you say parents should be. For the longest time, i felt i couldn't trust her because i felt i couldn't be good enough. I still put myself down at every chance i get because of that. Sometimes, it pays to be honest. Other times it costs what could've been a loving relationship. When children are too young to do anything but seek validation, you give them that validation. Would you rather give your kid the honest truth or raise them to believe that they are a human being who deserves to be validated and respected like everyone else? I don't believe in lying either, but heavy things like death, alcoholism, adultery, and abuse are topics that children should not have to learn and be scarred by at a young age. Constructive criticism is always the best way to go. Don't tell a child that their artwork is terrible, tell them that it's good for a beginner, and that all they need to do is become better. Destructive criticism sets the stage for self-deprication, doubt, and even mental illness later on. Sometimes brutal honestly can be considered verbal abuse, especially if there's no kindness behind it and you use it on a constant basis.

 

[Tesseract]

You say you do not understand the concept of love in the case of the drawing/singing anecdote. That may be a problem since you seem less emotive/empathetic than an average person.

Certainly possible. Yes, when I first read it I didn't understand the point that was being made there. Look on the bright side - I never became a parent, so my lack of skills in that area will not result in some poor child become an emotional wreck requiring therapy.

Unless you work on it through actively trying to understand without judging, it's not going to change and until it changes if only slightly, people will see you as a 'prick'.

Actually, no one that I now know seems to see me this way. As a "prick" that is. It's really odd, but I now get along with most people surprisingly well (although I do sometimes still have the occasional argument, which is always unintentional on my part - I don't try to deliberately provoke people, but it still happens anyway).

That is to say, no one expects you to change yourself. No one can make you either and that's fine. But people will expect you to improve yourself and your understanding, in this case - your empathy/sympathy etc.

Maybe it's just me, but this sounds contradictory. No one expects me to change myself, and no one can make me do this (which is fine), but people will still expect me to improve myself (and my level of understanding). Okay, never mind, but yes, I've been trying to do exactly that, with mixed results.

There's difference between honesty and brutal honestly. There's also tact and subtlety involved. People like you and me may have hard time learning about these but it's an essential skill in life - unless you intend to fully isolate yourself from society be it at a learning, working or familial environment.

Okay.

 

[Tesseract]

You do have to walk on eggshells actually. If you're frustrated about this, know that many people (including myself) share the same feelings about it, but you still have to suck it up and fake it at the least. It's good that you know about this unwritten rule, but it exists for a reason along with all those other unwritten rules.

Yes, but it isn't just frustrating, it's confusing and irritating as well. Part of the problem is that the "unwritten rules" have a tendency to change, without notice, overnight. They're never constant or consistent. How on Earth does anyone ever manage to just keep up? Plus, I've always been a bad actor, and living my life by "faking it" is just... inauthentic and insincere. The message is often promoted that we should all strive to express our individuality, and not be phony, and yet... when it comes to people like me, who couldn't pretend to be someone else even if my life depended on it, then for some strange reason it's taboo, or "rude", or otherwise not acceptable.
Nope, screw that. I would rather be alone with my books and computer games than have to carry on such a ridiculous charade.

 

[Tesseract]

However, what some people consider to be "the truth" is really just their opinion.

Hmm... Now is this statement true, or is it just your opinion?

For example, a homophobic person telling a gay person they are going to hell may believe they're spreading the truth, but in reality it's just their subjective opinion.

Are you sure? What if, in spite of how horrendous that concept is, there is a Hell after all? I don't really believe in an afterlife myself, but... you never know.

I've noticed that many people who pride themselves on telling the truth tend to give their opinions when they're not asked for or warranted. They also feel that their opinion is absolute fact. I've known quite a few people like this.

Well, I wouldn't say that I am proud to give my opinion on something I believe to be right or true; it's more of a compulsion really. A reaction. Something I don't seem to have all that much control over. Correcting mistakes was something I did for a living (data-entry operator) for quite some time, so maybe it's just become a part of me.

There's nothing wrong with sharing your mind, but people are emotional by nature so one must tread carefully in how they will do that. People don't care for people who treat their viewpoints as fact and just criticize for the sake of it. It just screams arrogance and insecurity. Some situations just don't call for criticizing, especially when there's children involved. Obviously, if it's a situation where a child is trying to improve a skill or learn something, then that's an acceptable situation to criticize, but even then it's important to choose your words carefully.

Yes, people ARE emotional. A little too emotional, unfortunately. "People don't care for people who treat their viewpoints as fact" - but what if what they believe to be true actually is?

 

[SunnyDay16]

Hmm... Now is this statement true, or is it just your opinion?



Are you sure? What if, in spite of how horrendous that concept is, there is a Hell after all? I don't really believe in an afterlife myself, but... you never know.



Well, I wouldn't say that I am proud to give my opinion on something I believe to be right or true; it's more of a compulsion really. A reaction. Something I don't seem to have all that much control over. Correcting mistakes was something I did for a living (data-entry operator) for quite some time, so maybe it's just become a part of me.



Yes, people ARE emotional. A little too emotional, unfortunately. "People don't care for people who treat their viewpoints as fact" - but what if what they believe to be true actually is?

I never said it was the factual truth. It's my personal opinion.

There's no scientific or factual evidence to prove that a hell exists so, in my opinion, the belief of a hell is subjective based on the individual's religious or spiritual beliefs. There's so many religions and religious systems out there.

I wasn't referring to you because I don't know you. I was referring to other people who feel the need to criticize because of their own insecurities and low self-esteem. There's tons of people like this who criticize as a defense mechanism.

It could very well actually be true, but people still don't like know-it-alls. It's based off emotion, not really logic. Even I, as an aspie, don't like know-it-alls because I find them to be irritating and rude even if they have truth in what they're saying.

 

[Iamnotbroken]

As a mother and obviously as a grown up who used to be a child I know that by telling a child "the truth" would be putting them down, and they'd more than likely give up and be scarred for life. I know this because my grandmother was very abusive and condescending to me, everything I did was not good enough for her, that crap really affected me. As a mother I'd die before I ever treat my daughter like that, I could care less who bad or good she was at something I would still acknowledge it and praise her. Heck to me it wouldn't be lying because everything she does is beautiful, because I'm blessed to have her. if it weren't for God she'd be dead, I almost lost her through miscarriage and then the umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck.

When you have kids you'll understand.

 

[Skids]

I'm a dad of a 9 year old NT kid and i lie to her all the time. She comes home with a picture and yes, it's just a smearing of paint. A mess. I give praise and tell her how wonderful it is when inside i have no opinion either way as it just doesn't interest me.

I simply cannot tell her i'm not interested in it even though that's my honest and brutal truth about the situation but i'm aware of the feelings of others and appreciate the kid might have spent a long time doing it and even attaching her own feelings to the picture as she was painting it like "i'm going to make this the best i can for my dad".

It would be cruel to then say, "i'm not interested" even though i'm not. It's a battle i have all the time as if i spoke my truths regularly then i'd have nobody around me left because i don't believe (children obviously) that most NT adults can appreciate my points of view about things and that they are from an autistic mind and not meant with any malice.

The majority of my problems in social situations over the years has arisen from me just seeing things as they really are and not being able to voice them because of some rule about 'feelings' and being insensitive. For example, my mum who is late 60's often gets her hair done and then asks me if i've noticed or what i think and i say that i never notice and i think nothing. It's just hair. It look the same as it's always done. Now if she had gone for a mohican then i might have noticed and commented but as it is i never do either. She understands i'm not being mean but simply that i genuinely have not noticed and i genuinely have no interest in what her hair looks like. In a nice way of course.

My kid does lots of clubs. Gymnastics, swimming, dancing etc and whilst i want her to enjoy them and do the best she can naturally as parent, i have to admit that i have no interest or take any great pleasure from watching her participate in these activities which i guess is not natural but it's the way i feel.

Occasionally though you get that fleeting moment of connectedness and something that is emotionally stirring. One picture she brought home for example was a kiddies drawing of me, her mum and her all holding hands and whist annoyingly but perhaps accurately she had drawn me with a stomach the size of a large sea mammal, the picture just made me an emotional wreck. It was so powerful.

I know that unconditional love is there but it's not often i actually get to feel and experience it on a true, deep level.

Also on the flip side i'm not one for giving praise just for the sake of it. Kids have to know that not everything they do will be met with high praise just simply because they've done something. Then i believe praise eventually becomes meaningless because kids aren't stupid and they quickly work out that you are just fobbing them off so i do offer constructive criticism sometimes maybe suggesting more work needed even though it was a good effort etc so that kids know you are really paying attention to what they've made / worked on rather than just generically passing positive comments all the time without thinking about it.

The hardest thing for me is lying to myself. It goes against my very soul. Having to hide my honesty because most NT's will either simply not be able to interpret my meaning behind the honesty which is simply the honesty itself. It's soul destroying. There is no other meaning however they all think that there is. Such as nastiness or unpleasantness or jealousy or whatever which is always how they seem to view honest comments from an aspie.

It devalues the sense of who i am inside and makes me believe my opinions, thoughts and feelings are worthless.

I'm fortunate in the sense that i am fully aware socially of how what i say can impact on others and thus i act accordingly but it comes at a huge cost to me personally.

 

[Tom]

For the same reasons autistics lie to theirs.