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Who is an aspie here?

Vanadium50

Well-Known Member
It is generally assumed that aspies are the ones that take things too literally and don't realize its a joke. I tend to fit that description, which is what keeps me isolated "most" of the time. Yet there are those rare occasions when "finally" I connect to someone and "I" make a joke but then "they" are the ones that miss it that its a joke, take it too literally, and think less of me as a result. So I feel like the roles have just switched. Normally I turn people off because I am the one thats aspie, but now wow I am lucky, in those rare occasions I turn them off for the opposite reason that I am not aspie enough. Okay just to clarify: no they weren't diagnosed with Asperger, it just "feels" that way on my end. So what it "feels" like on my end is "wow I am so lucky finally I talk to another aspi ... oh no! I just turned them off because I wasn't as much of an aspie as they were ... wait a second please give me a chance I mean there is nothing easier than to make myself slightly MORE aspie, why don't you give me a chance?!" but they don't want to listen.

Anyway, knowing how I tend to be long winded when trying to describe situations from my own life, lets instead give you a link regarding something that happened to someone else, but awfully reminiscent of some of what tends to happen to me: https://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts5835229.aspx So, the type of situation I am complainin about will be best described if you pretend that the man on the story is me while the woman in that story is someone else. What is especially confusing is the woman herself used the word "humor", so if she knows its a humor why did she take it literally anyway? But, in any case, with equivalent stories from my life the women that rejected me didn't use the word humor so who knows maybe they knew it was humor maybe not, but fact remains they took me way too literally.

So how do you guys make sense of all that? which options do you think is best answer to my question

1. Since an aspie takes things literally "most" of the time, their audience wrongly assumes that "everything" an aspie says is "always" literal

2. There is time and place for taking things literally and time and place for joking. The problem with an aspie is not that an aspie is too literal OR not literal enough. Rather the problem is that aspie doesn't know when to be what.

3. In order to make a joke it has to be framed as a joke as well, and an aspie doesn't know how to frame it as a joke since "joke-framework" requires sense of humor which an aspie lacks.

4. Just like the title of the post in question states, NT knows it is humor. But since NT decided that the joke in question isn't funny enough, NT said that an aspie is bad at joking which is a turnoff. Kind of like, if you walk in the gym and tried to lift things and failed, it is worse than not walking into gym at all

5. When NTs tease aspies in school, teasing is a humor too, but it is supposed to put them down. So by making humor about myself I am essentially being my own bully so to speak.

So whats your take on it?
 
So how do you guys make sense of all that?

"Need-to-know-basis-only". Telling the whole world you're on the spectrum is just going to invite all the scenarios you've mentioned above. If they don't know, even when you reply with an awkward response, it's more likely to leave them in the dark.
So both they- and you get to move on without incident.

Of course in the event most everyone in your orbit is aware of your autism, admittedly there isn't much you can do. I just remain woefully aware of the possibilities:

1) People who want to understand your autism and accomplish it to some degree.
2) People who want to understand, but fail in trying.
3) People who have no interest in trying who earnestly assume it is up to us to conform to their social standards.

That all said, part of the masking process for me is never to be too animated about my response to jokes. That way people can't tell if I got it and didn't care, or had no idea that I didn't have a clue of the joke or the humor it's supposed to reflect.

It's much worse for me when people project sarcasm my way. Where I get lost in my own mind trying to figure out the intent of what was said to me. Where I almost always surmise I was just insulted...whether it was the case or not.

Bottom line: If they don't know this about you, the likelihood of any kind of unfortunate incident is much less.
 
"Need-to-know-basis-only". Telling the whole world you're on the spectrum is just going to invite all the scenarios you've mentioned above. If they don't know, even when you reply with an awkward response, it's more likely to leave them in the dark.
So both they- and you get to move on without incident.

Of course in the event most everyone in your orbit is aware of your autism, admittedly there isn't much you can do. I just remain woefully aware of the possibilities:

1) People who want to understand your autism and accomplish it to some degree.
2) People who want to understand, but fail in trying.
3) People who have no interest in trying who earnestly assume it is up to us to conform to their social standards.

That all said, part of the masking process for me is never to be too animated about my response to jokes. That way people can't tell if I got it and didn't care, or had no idea that I didn't have a clue of the joke or the humor it's supposed to reflect.

It's much worse for me when people project sarcasm my way. Where I get lost in my own mind trying to figure out the intent of what was said to me. Where I almost always surmise I was just insulted...whether it was the case or not.

Bottom line: If they don't know this about you, the likelihood of any kind of unfortunate incident is much less.

What you said is also quite relevant to what I am complaining about. A month ago there was a girl I talked to on dating site to whom I told I have Asperger and then she kept asking me to "prove" that I have ever been in love or capable of feeling love and also she asked me why am I bad in technology if Sheldon was good at it. I mean really? What am I supposed to even answer to that?! Needless to say she lost interest in me really quickly because no matter what I did/say it was all viewed through Asperger lense.

But, in any case, I just wanted to point out that those are two separate subjects. Because there is a different girl to whom I also said I have Asperger and SHE was totally fine with that and kept talking to me like normal all day long. But then late at night I mentioned how I kept texting her while doing Bible studies and she said "I bet they knew you are talking to the girl because of big smile on your face" and I said "yeah, and I didn't throw any temper tantrums either" and then she said "really?! you throw temper tantrums?!" and then things spiralled down from that point and again she lost interest within the day. But this time Asperger label is not to blame since things were perfect up until little temper tantrum remark.

Now, as far as that link I have provided in original post, this is relevant to the second example rather than the first because, like i said, the man in that link is not me so, for all I know, he probably doesn't have Asperger. Well I "suspect" he does because he reminds me of myself a lot, but even if he does, more than likely he didn't mention it, or at least it wasn't brought up in that link.

So I guess there are two separate things I am complaining about: one is how people judge me by the label and the other is how the NT role and aspie role gets switched when it comes to certain things. Those two subjects are separate because, like I said, I can think of some examples when one is applicable but not the other.
 
Good points. We are both misunderstood and stigmatized often by popular characters in television and film. More often than not they don't do us any favors either.

I find just trying to explain autism to be a daunting proposition in itself. Something I'm very willing to accomplish within this community, but outside of it I'm likely to get lynched at times. Or at least it feels that way.

But you do bring up a valid point. In the case of family and significant others, you can't just keep it all one big secret either. At some point you have to explain yourself....where you may be shocked by how much they accept and/or understand...or how they don't care in the least and that there's something inherently wrong with us. In essence that's often "a crapshoot" even when you should or need to tell someone.

The whole process can be perpetually exasperating. :eek:
 
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Personally, I know that I am never going to fit in. Challenges in co-regulating the back-and-forth of relating means I will always stand out as different. When one's deficits are plainly visible, it is like a dinner bell for bullies. It draws them out of the woodwork, so they can't hide. Bullies will present themselves for my entire life, including into adulthood.
Bullies only prey on the weak, because they are cowards. They require a reaction to feel satisfaction.
I am autistic, so I don't register their antics much-- nor do I care about those shenanigans.
Do bullies show up? Often. Engaging with them is far more optional for me than for others.

I am supposed to be a literal thinker. It's part of the whole black-and-white thinking thing. There are tremendous positives to this as well as challenges with it socially. For example, when I like you, I like you. My loyalty is solid. Yep, that's a very positive autistic thing, coming from the same literal thinking/rigid thinking/black-and-white thinking tendencies. There are pluses to my way of viewing the world. I am genuine, honest, reliable, and loyal. My jokes are appreciated by those who appreciate me. :)

As far as fitting in goes... I was designed to be different. Why not embrace that? The right people will love me. I haven't the energy to waste on those who judge my humor, relating, or communicating. My life is better when I surround myself with those who accept me for who I am.

 
Bullies will present themselves for my entire life, including into adulthood.

Its interesting you say that you are bullied as an adult. Because in my case I was bullied as a kid a lot, but once I graduated high school all bullying stopped, and my problem as an adult is ostracism as opposed to bullying. Sometimes I think bullying was better because at least I had a chance to respond -- true I didn't want to respond back then all I wanted was to run away somewhere -- but at least I would have had a chance if I ever decided to, as opposed to right now when all people will ever say is "I don't want to talk about it".

But here is another thought. Are you perhaps saying that ostracism is a form of bullying? After all, the goal of bullying is to get my attention. Well, ostracism is by far better way of getting my attention: after all high school bullies had my attention for 10 minutes until I find a way to hide somewhere and then they were out of my mind, whereas people who ostracize me they have my attention for days, weeks, months as I keep obsessing about them. Is THIS perhaps what you meant when you said adults are bullied too?

As far as fitting in goes... I was designed to be different. Why not embrace that? The right people will love me

The only problem here is that I don't have "right people" that "love me". I am a complete loner. Although its possible that my negative attitude is what made it this way. Because I have maybe 1 person coming along in few months, and then that person is the only available punching bag so I push that person away. But how many people do YOU get to know and how often? Do you also have one new person per few months, but you have accumulated them since you weren't using them as punching bags? Or do you perhaps have one new person each day since your existing connections somehow help you?
 
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It can be. But a bully intends to get a visible reaction. As adults, we are less likely to notice being bullied, as the bullies get more subtle.. and many of us cannot read subtlety. :rolleyes: The social services worker who made a snide comment, the co-worker who made an "all in fun" joke at your expense, the neighbor who patronizes without you being aware. The nice thing about this stuff is that we often don't notice it until much later. Then, we care less about it anyway. Sometimes there are perks to being in our own worlds and somewhat socially clueless. :D Surrounding myself with the right people is the answer. :)
 
It can be. But a bully intends to get a visible reaction. As adults, we are less likely to notice being bullied, as the bullies get more subtle.. and many of us cannot read subtlety. :rolleyes: The social services worker who made a snide comment, the co-worker who made an "all in fun" joke at your expense, the neighbor who patronizes without you being aware. The nice thing about this stuff is that we often don't notice it until much later. Then, we care less about it anyway. Sometimes there are perks to being in our own worlds and somewhat socially clueless. :D Surrounding myself with the right people is the answer. :)

Okay, in this case I can think of some examples. Like for example I came to IHOP and a server -- who was a black guy in his 20s -- said "you don't need a menu do you? I notice you come here a lot" and then I said "yes I do" and when he gave it to me, I deliberately ordered something completely different from what I normally order in order to prove him wrong.

Another thing that bothered me is when, in church, some people tried to give me money. Well it only happened maybe 4 times within a year, but each incident was enough to offend me because I thought they mistaken me for homeless since sometimes I forget to take a shower or wash my clothes, or fall asleep in public. But are you saying they knew I weren't homeless and instead it was a form of bullying?

In any case, what I am THE MOST concern about is whether or not

a) People think I am gay
b) People know I am straight but call me gay to bully me
c) They don't do either of those and I am just imagining it

One thing that happened is that my roommates were talking about someone ELSE who was gay -- I know that person wasn't me because I actually asked who that was and they talked to me about him in third person and I even think he was in the room at some point. But then what bothers me is that I overheard the roommates saying that someone is gay because he doesn't drink. Well I am the one who doesn't drink so I am wondering if they were talking about me or not? I guess the problem that I have is the following: suppose it wasn't me, in this case the act of asking this question will make them think I am gay because why else would I suspect that its me when its not UNLESS I have some secret I am hiding? So for that reason I didn't ask. But then I kept obsessing about it for several days to follow, but then it became even harder to ask since saying "by the way few days ago someone was gay, was it me by any chance" would make it look even more suspicious.

On the other hand, a more blatant example is when I was in caffeteria and I had headache, and some black guy asked me "are you straight?" Well in this case it would have been a lot easier to answer since then the reason the thought got into my head is NOT because of some secret but because he asked me that question plainly. But then I was worried that my voice is lowder than most people, so what if other people in the caffeteria didn't hear his question but they would hear my response and THEY would decide that I got this thought out of the blue. So, instead of answering, I kept saying "what?" until he rephrased it "are you okay" and I said "why does it look like I am not?" and he said "because of the way you walk" and I said "yes I am fine". So I really WANT to think that "straight" can be a synonym of "okay" (since its not like i was found with a guy or anything like that) but still I should have probably confronted him then and there.

So do you know of any way to find out if people htink I am gay or not, without actually raising red flags by asking something to that effect?
 
Regarding the initial examples you gave:
You may simply be getting offended when people are genuinely trying to be friendly or kind.
I don't know you, and was not there in the situations mentioned, but that is something to at the very least consider. Or not.

As for the last incident, some people indeed can simply be rude. Not everything people say to me needs a response from me.
 
Regarding the initial examples you gave:
You may simply be getting offended when people are genuinely trying to be friendly or kind.
I don't know you, and was not there in the situations mentioned, but that is something to at the very least consider. Or not.

As for the last incident, some people indeed can simply be rude. Not everything people say to me needs a response from me.

You do know that most people don't just walk to each other and give each other money. Thats why its so hard to buy it when you say they were "genuinely friendly". Or is it some sort of cultural thing that I am missing?

As far as the last example, my concern is that i don't want anyone to spread false rumor that I am gay when I am not. I have read that some people are falsely rumored as gay and I don't want to be one of them. But then again, since I don't have social life and insted I just read something, its entirely possible that whatever I read makes something sound more common than it is. But in any case the question is: does failure to challenge gay accusation amount to admission to being gay in other people's minds? Thats one of the things I am concerned about -- and I know I am straight by the way, I just want to avoid false accusations.

In any case, let me remind you of the context. So first you said you were bullied as an adult and then I was suprised and said I wasn't. Then you said that you were talking about more subtle forms of bullying and mentioned a couple of examples. Then I said that in this case yes I can think of that -- and even something worse -- from my own life. But then you said I read into it too much. So now it sounds like we switched sides: first you were the one saying that subtle things amount to bullying but now you were telling me not to read into things. Or are you saying that the "subtle things" you are concerned about are different in nature than the ones I am concerned about? Thats entirely possible by the way: the common theme of my conflicts with NTs is that, on the one hand, they are telling me it is tiresome how I read into little things that don't matter and, on the other hand, they get offended by the little things I do which, to me, seem too little to even care about. Well its true that in your case we are both aspies, but still perhaps
 
Vanadium (LOVE you name, by the way! ) I kind of think it's a normal part of my wiring to misunderstand anything subtle.... Kindness or nastiness need to be very clear for me to get it.
Since I wasn't there for your experiences, I can only offer the best guesses for possibilities.
Without a doubt I have been bullied as an adult, but my presentation is of someone with obvious challenges.

The social world is something I do my best at, but I don't fret about misunderstandings.
 
I am an aspie who takes things literally and rarely can understand a joke that is normally given and am longwinded in explanations.

I met a male aspie for the first time not so long ago and I so much wanted to say that I am too and often had to stop myself from saying "knowing" aspie things like; I take things too literally etc etc. I recognised I wanted to connect but had no idea how to and the end result was that I did not say anything. He was very shy and quiet and sort of stayed like glue to his nt wife! I was in my "comfort zone" and so was being a bit too talkativI e.

I find it fascinating the taking things literally, for some things I am aware that they are not literal like: I would love to be a fly on the wall. Well, I cannot help but go: ewww I rather be a butterfly! Now to the person hearing that, they will assume that I did not understand why they were saying, but it is because I see the fly in my head, on the wall.

Other times, taking things literally has caused an awful lot of nasty misunderstandings. So for those who know me to be an aspie, I try to remind them that they have to say what they mean, or I get confused or they have to say: this is not literal. Afterall, I have to try and adapt to the nt world, so I do think that they can do their bit!

There is an awful lot of stereotyping going on! Recently I had someone saying that he worked with an aspie and he recognised many traits between the aspie and me and my husband often nodded and said: that is my wife so much. But because I always have this intense need to be honest, I blurted out that I am not officially diagnosed and was shocked at the turn of events! The same one who was relating working with an aspie, suddenly said: yes, but who is normal? I mean: we all have struggles etc etc I wanted to say: if I said I had depression, but not diagnosed, you would just accept I have depression. It is because there is a preconceived idea of what an aspie look's like. This male aspie I met, did not have staring, blank expression on his face and his voice was not at all montone; in fact, I found him to be very intense type of person.

He simply loved the idea of me saying that I either go online a lot or cross stitching; which was so lovely, because nt's tend to look down on women who are housewives, but he just noted what I did and really liked it.

After the experience with this other person, who changed so fast with finding out I am not official, I see now that it is wiser to just keep quiet and those who know I have aspergers, do not question; probably because they know me well enough now, to see the traits.

I guess also, like nt's knowing nt's and not all getting on, it is just the same as an aspie meeting another aspie and we humans do like to compare.
 
I can get 'comedy' jokes on tv shows and such, although I have a weird sense of humour and laugh out loud at stuff others just don't laugh at all about, and vice versa. Real life jokes and teasing I just don't get and I take what is said at face value, also most of my jokes fall flat, at least with NTs
 
Personally, I know that I am never going to fit in. Challenges in co-regulating the back-and-forth of relating means I will always stand out as different. When one's deficits are plainly visible, it is like a dinner bell for bullies. It draws them out of the woodwork, so they can't hide. Bullies will present themselves for my entire life, including into adulthood.
Bullies only prey on the weak, because they are cowards. They require a reaction to feel satisfaction.
I am autistic, so I don't register their antics much-- nor do I care about those shenanigans.
Do bullies show up? Often. Engaging with them is far more optional for me than for others.

I am supposed to be a literal thinker. It's part of the whole black-and-white thinking thing. There are tremendous positives to this as well as challenges with it socially. For example, when I like you, I like you. My loyalty is solid. Yep, that's a very positive autistic thing, coming from the same literal thinking/rigid thinking/black-and-white thinking tendencies. There are pluses to my way of viewing the world. I am genuine, honest, reliable, and loyal. My jokes are appreciated by those who appreciate me. :)

As far as fitting in goes... I was designed to be different. Why not embrace that? The right people will love me. I haven't the energy to waste on those who judge my humor, relating, or communicating. My life is better when I surround myself with those who accept me for who I am.

I am looked down on by my own sex. Strangely enough, by my own culture, but take the French culture, for example: French females seem to be ok with me.

Sadly, I somehow learned to read emotions, but do it too well now and can always see the disgusted look etc, which is just awful!

But coming from when I could not read emotions at all, not so sure it is a positive either way.

But, like you, I am learning to think: well if they won't accept me, then so be it!
 
I am looked down on by my own sex. Strangely enough, by my own culture, but take the French culture, for example: French females seem to be ok with me.

Sadly, I somehow learned to read emotions, but do it too well now and can always see the disgusted look etc, which is just awful!

But coming from when I could not read emotions at all, not so sure it is a positive either way.

But, like you, I am learning to think: well if they won't accept me, then so be it!

Its interesting you say you get along better with French women. I came from Russia to the USA at 14 and sometimes I wonder whether things would have turned out better if I were to just live in Russia. Well I don't remember ever being ostracized back there although I was bullied a lot more. So I am wondering whether its "just" the age or cultural thing as well. I did spend 5 years in India though, but I don't think I did there any better than in the US. I am kind of wondering how things would have turned out in Western Europe as I never actually lived there for any length of time. But I guess I am kind of throwing hypotheticals since obviously its not practical to simply travel the world any time I feel like it. Do you have an idea on how things pan out between different US states? Like this past couple of years I been down south and sometimes when I was complaining about my poor social skills people were acting like its only because I am down south. Well I weren't quite buying it because my initial impression was that southerners were quite welcoming -- in contrast to the ostracism I got up north -- but then as months went by they became less welcoming so who knows. I guess right now I "hope" they are right, but only because I am moving westward so its my wishful thinking hoping that things would be better at a new place -- although the pattern is that, no matter where I go, I receive initial welcome and then things get worse, and then I look forward to moving elsewhere. I do keep moving around a lot, pretty much a new place every couple of years. It is school related, I finished my first phd few years ago, couldn't find permanent job, so was getting postdocs, and now went back to school. I guess by now I pretty much expect myself to keep moving around, and each time I move same old story with being optimistic before the move and then my optimism is proven wrong several months after the move. But how about yourself, where did you find yourself the most comfortable?
 
I can get 'comedy' jokes on tv shows and such, although I have a weird sense of humour and laugh out loud at stuff others just don't laugh at all about, and vice versa. Real life jokes and teasing I just don't get and I take what is said at face value, also most of my jokes fall flat, at least with NTs

Speaking of jokes falling flat, do you think that sometimes things "fall flat" not really because NTs can't relate but more because NTs deliberately use it as a tool to invalidate you?
 
Speaking of jokes falling flat, do you think that sometimes things "fall flat" not really because NTs can't relate but more because NTs deliberately use it as a tool to invalidate you?
It is possible, but I think in most cases it is just because they don't get my niche humour as opposed to any deliberate ploy to undermine me.
 
Speaking of jokes falling flat, do you think that sometimes things "fall flat" not really because NTs can't relate but more because NTs deliberately use it as a tool to invalidate you?

Absolutely. With a distinct pattern coming about. That the same person would make that claim and no others.

Ok...they didn't like me. I got that the second or third time...but yes they insist on reiterating it. Not everything escapes us...
 
Ok...they didn't like me. I got that the second or third time

No thats not how I would react. I would say "okay they don't like me, I DON"T get it, they have to explain to me why BUT please don't act passive aggressively with my jokes falling flat, tell me the TRUE reason"

By the way here is something else that comes to mind. How the people at US south when I speak they respond with silence leading me to believe they didn't understnad my accent -- I have heavy Russian accent. Now which one is it?

1. They truly didn't understand my accent and too lazy to try?
2. They don't like something ELSE about me and use accent as an excuse not to talk to me
3. The accent is what they look down at me for (because they stupidly don't get that Russians are every bit as White as Americans are) and so this is a nice way of putting me down FOR my accent AND putting me down in general all at once
 
I have heavy Russian accent.

That is likely to color many of your communications issues depending on the people you meet. That would certainly compound a reaction to telling a joke. There are any number of languages and their accents that Americans simply aren't accustomed to. Even my own regional accent isn't common for the area I live in.

Russian is certainly one of them. Seldom heard here...even in more metropolitan areas. But I'm apt to think that metropolitan areas are more conducive to people with accents than places where only English is spoken or even demanded.

Where you reside might compound the issue...
 
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