Uncertain about son's diagnosis

[Sthira]

My son was recently diagnosed with ASD (high functioning), but there are some things that don't seem consistent with ASD according to my understanding and experience. For example, one thing I've noticed is that he is actually not at all shy around strangers. He'll go up to greet random people or strike up a conversation (about some topic of interest to him, e.g. some highly desired snack item he's getting when we go shopping) with absolutely no problem with eye contact and such. The issue is that he is actually so friendly and familiar at times that people can be a little taken aback. Is this typical/atypical for ASD? Another thing. He often ignores us when we call his name, and when I ask him if he heard me calling his name he says, "yes, I heard you, but I didn't want to do that (some requested task) so I didn't say anything." On the other hand, if I call his name and add a threat, e.g. "James, you need to pick up your toys otherwise no video tonight" he responds immediately. If I don't add that threat I could ask him 10 times and he'd just carry on doing what he's doing. Is this typical ASD behavior? It is really the oppositional/defiant behavior, the tantrums and the tendency to blame others and hold onto grudges that are the biggest issues of concern for us, so ODD is something that we keep wondering about.

 

[Judge]

My son was recently diagnosed with ASD (high functioning), but there are some things that don't seem consistent with ASD according to my understanding and experience. For example, one thing I've noticed is that he is actually not at all shy around strangers. He'll go up to greet random people or strike up a conversation (about some topic of interest to him, e.g. some highly desired snack item he's getting when we go shopping) with absolutely no problem with eye contact and such. The issue is that he is actually so friendly and familiar at times that people can be a little taken aback. Is this typical/atypical for ASD? Another thing. He often ignores us when we call his name, and when I ask him if he heard me calling his name he says, "yes, I heard you, but I didn't want to do that (some requested task) so I didn't say anything." On the other hand, if I call his name and add a threat, e.g. "James, you need to pick up your toys otherwise no video tonight" he responds immediately. If I don't add that threat I could ask him 10 times and he'd just carry on doing what he's doing. Is this typical ASD behavior? It is really the oppositional/defiant behavior, the tantrums and the tendency to blame others and hold onto grudges that are the biggest issues of concern for us, so ODD is something that we keep wondering about.

Pardon me if I appear to oversimplify your concerns. Simply put, stick around. It will require a lot of reading. However in the process, you'll discover just how broad a spectrum of traits and behaviors ASD involves. Perhaps one of the most profound, is that while many of us consider ourselves introverted, there are a few who consider themselves to be extroverted.

Your challenge is to move beyond stereotyped Aspie traits and behaviors, and understand just how truly broad the spectrum of autism can be. And at times if we appear completely contradictory from a perspective of logic and reason, it's probably because at times we are.

Or as so many have posted here, "If you've met one Aspie, you've met ONE Aspie."

 

[Suzanne]

Hi there

Since he was diagnosed, I feel that means he is indeed an aspie, because it is so hard these days, to get a diagnosis and thus, if one is, then it usually means, to my mind that they are.

Someone I know, who's son is an aspie, loves talking about him and so, I find out rather a lot about him, without ever meeting him lol one thing about him: he can go up to strangers and talk to them. He has no problem walking up to a woman and telling her how beautiful she looks or her dress or skirt.

I actually believe that the higher the score is, the closer one is to classic autism and what I found out is that with classic autistic ones, who are functioning ( for there are some who are so severe, they cannot even talk or look after themselves), are less shy than aspies or most aspies, anyway.

Interesting that he ignores you when you call because he doesn't want to do the thing you ask of him. Now I watched a few youtube videos on autism ( a bit of an obsession) and one thing I found is that they can be stubborn if they do not want to do something!

But it is true that you meet one aspie, you meet one aspie. We do share traits, but what is classified as aspergeric behaviour, some "suffer" more than others.

I have learned to read emotions; not sure how I did it though, but I can see immediately the shift of an eye or the tone of the voice and actually, rather too well! I can look into someone eyes now and I don't freak out so much. However, if I am being verbally attacked, my eyes can't meet the person's eyes.

You have arrived at the best forum in the world, as far as I am concerned.

Try just accepting your son for who he is and working with him.

You could try saying that you know he doesn't want to do such and such, but if he did, he can watch his fav video or something that he likes. It is not "giving in" or "spoiling him", for he sounds very clever actually and to his way of thinking: why answer when he doesn't wish to do the thing? I hate to see it but I can see his reasoning lol but I can also see yours and so, you have to learn to work with each other.

 

[AsheSkyler]

My son was recently diagnosed with ASD (high functioning), but there are some things that don't seem consistent with ASD according to my understanding and experience. For example, one thing I've noticed is that he is actually not at all shy around strangers. He'll go up to greet random people or strike up a conversation (about some topic of interest to him, e.g. some highly desired snack item he's getting when we go shopping) with absolutely no problem with eye contact and such. The issue is that he is actually so friendly and familiar at times that people can be a little taken aback. Is this typical/atypical for ASD?

I knew an autistic guy who would stand two inches away from you, stare you unblinkingly in the eye, and then talk about things he liked. I'd say that's possible enough for those on the spectrum.

He often ignores us when we call his name, and when I ask him if he heard me calling his name he says, "yes, I heard you, but I didn't want to do that (some requested task) so I didn't say anything." On the other hand, if I call his name and add a threat, e.g. "James, you need to pick up your toys otherwise no video tonight" he responds immediately. If I don't add that threat I could ask him 10 times and he'd just carry on doing what he's doing. Is this typical ASD behavior? It is really the oppositional/defiant behavior, the tantrums and the tendency to blame others and hold onto grudges that are the biggest issues of concern for us, so ODD is something that we keep wondering about.

I have no clue on that one. But, there is a cute book out there that draws lots of comparisons between Asperger's and cats, and the old joke about the difference between dogs and cats says that dogs come when called and cats take a message to get back in touch with you later.

 

[Naturalist]

Is your son seven? He sounds just like my son!!

We are actually having a great deal of behavioral issues with our boy lately, not so much at home but at school, and both the teachers' account and my son's perspective are very familiar to me, as an Aspie. At first I assumed he had great social skills, because unlike myself, he is quite comfortable around others and very naturally outgoing. But what I failed to realize was that he was erring on the OTHER side of social awkwardness, that is, he wasn't giving other people enough space, pushes them to interact when they don't want to, insists on being the center of attention, etc. It isn't that he is narcissistic, so much that he thinks he has to do these things otherwise he fears people are angry or dislike him. If anyone corrects him for any reason, he has a meltdown. We are going to meet with his doctor soon because I think some cognitive behavioral therapy could help him. My own therapist looked at a list I made of his behaviors, and says we will be very remiss if we don't consider the possibility of ASD, especially as he has an aspie mum.

I think the spectrum analogy, while accurate, is very confusing to many people. But while there are certainly recognizable personality types it is indeed important to note that every individual is indeed an individual, unique in his or her thoughts, reactions, behaviors, and motivations. My son told me recently, "Mommy, I feel like you are the only one who really understands me". I have to believe it is because as an Aspie, I know that the behaviors others dismiss as "defiant" or "rude" are really just efforts to communicate discomfort or uncertainty, and are not a deliberate attempt to hurt or manipulate. I know this because when he does realize he has hurt someone, he becomes very disconsolate and self-deprecating. But he has some other traits which are delightful: he knows a lot about a whole range of topics which interest him, and will eagerly share his interests with anyone. He is very caring about younger kids who look up to him, and takes his role as "mentor" very seriously. And he has a tremendous empathy for animals. I always hope that whatever I convey to my son, I make it clear that both his abilities and difficulties add up to one really wonderful person, and that he can make choices which allow him to optimize his strengths and minimize his struggles, if he really has an awareness of himself.

 

[Sthira]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Naturalist, my son is 4.5 years old but he seems like a teenager at times.

Suzanne, I'm not sure of the difference between high-functioning autism and Aspergers (I think the formal distinction has disappeared in the most recent DSM.) My son never had any problem with language development, his language development was/is probably somewhat accelerated, if anything. Also, looking at his old baby videos, I don't see any repetitive behavior, and he made very good eye contact and pointed out things of interest to him, and looked at things we directed his attention to, etc.

My son seems to take pleasure in being oppositional. If you ask him to do something he'll often do the opposite and take pleasure in doing so. If he senses you're frustrated he'll increase the behavior he's doing in order to increase the level of frustration. Here's a recent dialog I had with him:

me: Hey buddy, can you see that mom and I are getting frustrated?
son: Yes.
me: Why do you do things that make the situation worse when you can see someone is getting frustrated or mad?
son: Because I like it.
me: Why do you like it?
son: Because I like to see action.

At home this behavior is probably one of the most difficult things to deal with.

I'm completely OK with the ASD diagnosis if that's the correct one. I just want to get him the right treatment/therapy. But I'm concerned about getting the correct diagnosis, because there's a lot of "stuff" happening in my home. My wife has lots of issues she's dealing with (depression, anxiety, emotional dysregulation, etc.) and there's been a quite a bit of emotional abuse. She has almost as many meltdowns as my son and her's are usually much more turbulent.

 

[Judge]

My son seems to take pleasure in being oppositional. If you ask him to do something he'll often do the opposite and take pleasure in doing so. If he senses you're frustrated he'll increase the behavior he's doing in order to increase the level of frustration. Here's a recent dialog I had with him:

me: Why do you do things that make the situation worse when you can see someone is getting frustrated or mad?
son: Because I like it.
me: Why do you like it?
son: Because I like to see action.

At home this behavior is probably one of the most difficult things to deal with.

Ouch. Excessive argumentativeness. Yeah, that's an often problematic trait to have. I know firsthand. One I'm attempting to subdue (because I can) in my old age. Not always easy, either. But in the school of "hard knocks", you learn how it needlessly puts you in the role of either being "the bug", or "the windshield". That neither is a good place to be in the long haul.

I suppose you might want to pursue known successful methods of teaching children the dynamic of "cause and effect". Not likely an easy assignment...

 

[Sthira]

Ouch. Excessive argumentativeness. Yeah, that's an often problematic trait to have. I know firsthand. One I'm attempting to subdue (because I can) in my old age. Not always easy, either. But in the school of "hard knocks", you learn how it needlessly puts you in the role of either being "the bug", or "the windshield". That neither is a good place to be in the long haul.

Quite true. He also does this sort of thing in the playground, often "playing" with kids in a way clearly intended to annoy, blocking their way on the play structures, grabbing their ball and running away with it (while laughing), etc. Not real great for making friends. This sort of behavior goes way back. I remember a couple years back at one of his regular check-ups, probably 2 year, his doctor asked if he helped getting dressed. I laughed and told her that not only does he not help, but actually has a lot of fun doing his best to avoid getting dressed -- like it's a game.

I suppose you might want to pursue known successful methods of teaching children the dynamic of "cause and effect". Not likely an easy assignment...

Do you have any suggestions?

 

[Judge]

Quite true. He also does this sort of thing in the playground, often "playing" with kids in a way clearly intended to annoy, blocking their way on the play structures, grabbing their ball and running away with it (while laughing), etc. Not real great for making friends. This sort of behavior goes way back. I remember a couple years back at one of his regular check-ups, probably 2 year, his doctor asked if he helped getting dressed. I laughed and told her that not only does he not help, but actually has a lot of fun doing his best to avoid getting dressed -- like it's a game.



Do you have any suggestions?

That's a tough question. Keep in mind I'm not a parent, either. I can/could be argumentative, but not to derive pleasure from it. I'm not really sure I can make a practical suggestion in your son's case regarding cause and effect, but I'll share you something that mitigated my behavior that age and beyond. In my case I had an ongoing example of actions and their consequences. My older and much more ornerier brother.

Constantly witnessing the consequences of his actions served quite effectively in limiting my behavior in general. And just a bit later being taught the importance of general courtesy given I was raised in a military family. I learned from example this rather blunt way, for virtually my entire childhood.

Of course in your case if your son doesn't have a sibling, it seems more of a challenge to be able to demonstrate cause and effect at close range, without his getting hurt. But I think we all know that in just a few short years, if he's mainstreamed at school, he's going to face some serious consequences with his peers if he continues such behavior.

I suppose that's your challenge. Right now he has no concept of what really nasty "consequences" are. To figure out that methodology of teaching your son cause and effect that actually works. Something at close range that catches his attention. I know you can google "teaching children cause and effect". Perhaps that might give you ideas more suited to your circumstances.