Tics relating to sexual attraction

[Stardust Parade]

Why are you still with him?

 

[KarenP]

While the above quote may seem singular and straight forward, it actually carries with it the possibility of many disparate meanings.

My suggestion is that you approach him directly, honestly, openly and kindly, about the evolution of your relationship, and leave the tics out. Also leave out analyses, and work from what he tells you.
As with any relationship, open communication depends on trust and compassion. It may take several attempts for him to be comfortable with the discussion. Be warm and patient.
If your intentions are kind and loving, begin with that. Always leave him "a way out".
Nobody likes to be forced to take a stand, stance, or position, or make a proclamation, that may seem unchangeably committed, especially in the fluid dynamics of an intimate relationship, and/or in the absence of investigating or analyzing his/her own thoughts and feelings on the relationship.

It seems apparent, the direction you wish the relationship to proceed.
It is necessary, as a mature adult, in this situation, to allow for, and to be able to accept gracefully, the entire range of possible outcomes.
All the way from:
It was a simple misunderstanding, to,
He is irretrievably uncomfortable in a relationship with you, and has been unable to express it.
Be prepared, if necessary, to "let him go".

Of course, those are the extremes, and it is likely that the true state of things lies somewhere between.

Lastly, if he is truly on the spectrum, and you are not, and your relationship continues, it is very likely that you are far better able and suited to navigate change than he.
This means that the lion's share of adapting to maintain the relationship may fall on you.
Only you can weigh the costs and benefits of the relationship, and that analysis may have no effect on whether the relationship ends or not, as you must both make the conscious decision and effort to keep it.

I apologize, if this has sounded cold or overly clinical, but, as I see it,
this is the best path forward for you.
I hope it helps.

May you both be well.

sidd

Thanks, Sidd. I agree with you all that you said, but unfortunately it is not that easy. He is an extremely closed person and refuses to speak to me about anything of a personal nature. He will simply get up and leave, or if I try to speak very gently and lovingly in bed, he simply refuses to answer or say anything at all. There is no open communication or trust, as I find it impossible to trust someone who keeps every aspect of his life a secret from me. If he goes out for the day (we are both retired) he gets very angry if I dare to ask him where he has been and tells me that he does not have to account for where he is. He will discuss everyday items or 'things that I need to know', such as gardening and shopping, but even then if I make a pleasant suggestion that doesn't suit him, he will take it as a personal attack and get angry with me. For example, I recently asked him very nicely if he would put a bit less coffee powder in my cup when he made me a coffee, explaining that I was drinking too much coffee of late and so I was trying to reduce the amount of coffee powder that I used, but he took this as a personal attack on him about the way he makes coffee. No matter how hard I try to say something nicely and in the right manner, he always takes it as an attack on him and gets very angry, telling me that all I do is criticise him.

 

[KarenP]

There’s only one question that really comes to mind reading all this: why are you with this guy?

I frequently wonder the same thing and consider whether I should leave, but I figure that we all have our faults and so I try hard to make it work. He does have his good side, which I fell in love with, and he is a nice person if I am bright, bubbly and chatty 24/7 and never question anything or expect him to have a conversation with me. He is generally very nice to other people, such as neighbours, though he is by nature an extremely quiet man, and would think it quite acceptable not to speak to anyone during a dinner party which I host. He is definitely much better with my friends once he knows them well, but will never initiate conversation. However, he is very neat and tidy around the house, and with his own cleanliness and grooming. Whilst our finances are 100% separate, and I pay half of all living expenditure, I do get to live in his beautiful home and to rent out my unit, which has enabled me to retire at 60 (not that that is a big factor - but a small one which helps).

 

[KarenP]

He is aware that you are scrutinizing his tics.

If your husband mentioned the name of a man you were infatuated with I'm sure you would generate a similar reaction. Caught off guard right? Understand that if your husband was so insecure where he judged your every uncontrollable action whenever a good looking man came on TV... Whenever a man passed you when out for a walk... whenever you stared at a man... after time that would cause you to get annoyed with him, no? see where am going with this? Even if you don't nag him every single time, you have your own unconscious processes that will signal it through body language and what not.
How do you know objectively that it's sexual in nature you and him never talked about the tics?

He looks at a girl that girl is hotter than me therefore he must want her sexually?

Unless he is cheating on you physically with another woman, i don't see a problem with him here. Have you tried ease'ing up off him for a couple weeks and see what happens?

Can you recall some things you did around the time of the change that may have caused him to withdraw from you. Betrayed trust perhaps?

No, I cannot think of anything which caused it to happen - but it did start quite slowly and progressively got worse. I have definitely not nagged him about it and would go a good three months of totally ignoring it and making out that nothing was happening, which has seemed an odd thing to do when you are sitting next to someone who may be banging their head backwards and forwards and kicking their legs. Definitely over the years, I accept that I may increase his tension at times, as sometimes when his actions are particularly bad I will glance at him (maybe once a fortnight now I will glance at him). I do this out of my own sense of frustration because he tells me I am lying and making it all up, and so sometimes I think perhaps he really is totally unaware that he is doing it, and so perhaps me glancing at him will make him realise that I am not lying. I do understand that he cannot help his actions, but as I said, I find it difficult when he shows me no love or affection or ever says a single nice thing about me, but constantly criticises. I have given up trying to show him affection and snuggle up watching tele, as it is very disheartening when it is never returned or even acknowledged.

 

[KarenP]

I have a number of facial and bodily tics which I have had to learn to get under control because of the friction they have caused me in the past. They now only come out when I am stressed or self conscious. Tics are related to stimming, but whilst we may stim when excited as well as stressed, tics (or nervous tics to give them their full name) are more than likely to be a stress reaction rather than an expression of excitement.
I used to have a partner who was irrationally jealous of other women (I'm not saying you are, you don't sound like you are in your post) and I was frequently accused of "fancying" other women due to her jealousy and insecurity. It led to me losing interest in intimacy with her and to me becoming stressed whenever an attractive woman or a woman showing any flesh was encountered in the street or on television. I ticed like I was having some kind of seizure during such agitation.
The only way to get to the source of this is to talk about it in a sensitive and understanding fashion. I know you have tried already but it is the only way. Until you get to the bottom of why he tics at such times and solve the underlying problem, it won't change. Ask yourself if there is anything about yourself or the way you express yourself that he may be misunderstanding. Are you expecting him to understand communications that other people may get involving nonverbal signals or "unwritten rules" that he may not be receiving?
If it is a misunderstanding, then it is something in your behaviour he has misunderstood. This doesn't mean you have to change yourself, it may just be a case of explaining clearly and verbally what you actually mean, but until you work out what that is, you're in the dark.

Thank you - I really appreciate your response, especially as you have experienced this type of thing yourself. I am certainly not jealous of these women and don't think that he fancies any of them - they are all lovely women, and I don't think that he would think I am jealous of them (but maybe he does), but your post has given me plenty to think about and I will definitely keep trying to work out a way that I can discuss it with him. During the last year, the tics progressed to listening to music, and certain lyrics would trigger them - I'm not really sure what the trigger was most of the time - maybe the lyrics, maybe the artist, maybe a memory they brought up, but at one stage I did not feel safe driving with him in the car because of the state of his actions during certain songs. I tried very gently to discuss this with him but again he told me I was making it up. We rarely listen to music in the car now.
I am becoming more aware that he is misinterpreting my behaviour at times (e.g. if I am tired or have a headache he'll think I am angry, and will often say something very nasty to me) and this is something I definitely need to work on to avoid misunderstandings.

 

[Autistamatic]

Karen I feel for you in this difficult situation. It must be very hard for you balancing the man you fell in love with against the man you live with now.
Let's leave the possibility of him being on the spectrum out of it for now because we don't know one way or the other for certain. AS may offer some context to his behaviour but it doesn't excuse it.
I am not sure if the behaviour described would qualify as tics. A tic is usually a short, involuntary burst, often a repetitive one. A verbal tic might be a repetitive phrase of a few words either muttered or shouted (because the ticcer tries to suppress it). A physical tic is usually similarly short and simple. There can be more complicated tics but they are far less common and sometimes associated with conditions that really should be treated. It sounds like he doesn't exhibit these tics much in other company either which is worrying (correct me if I've misunderstood). Since tics are involuntary they would be evident in situations involving other people too, even if he acknowledges them and makes a good job of suppression.
He appears to be a personality who likes to be in control and interprets questions as invasive and as criticism. This could be either due to him genuinely having secrets he does not want you to pry into or because of his insecurity over perceived challenges, but either way it is not helping him and is hurting you. He may well perceive you to be the one exhibiting controlling behaviour by being "nosy" or not trusting him, but no worthwhile relationship was ever built on withholding of information. If he cannot grasp this simple aspect of communication he is not going to be able to make the simple compromises you require. Trust must be earned by him, he cannot demand it, especially if his behaviour is somewhat suspicious.
If he is unwilling to talk to you about it, to seek external help or even admit he has a problem then there is little hope of you resolving the situation.
Your options are limited as I see them. He is unreceptive to communication so perhaps withdrawal of communication might prompt him to take the initiative to ask why, or to seek external advice like you have done. Forgive me for having doubts it will work but it is an option.
Failing this and combined with your many failed attempts at communication I see little else you can do other than evaluate whether to put up and shut up or go.
I hope someone else comes up with another option you can try

 

[KarenP]

Hmm. Tricky one. I have Tourette's Syndrome myself so I know all about what it feels like to have uncontrollable movements and sounds. I've had it for the past 4 years now.

What I'm concerned with is this attitude like he doesn't seem appreciate the relationship he's in. I'm worried that he might be trying to get a free pass to do what he likes. I'm not suggesting it's making it all up however.

The only other thing I can think of is, giving him the benefit of the doubt, is that there's some Obsessive Compulsive Behaviours tied up in this. It could be possible that he's very insecure about this tics and behaviours hence why he's so dead set on not talking about it; it is very hard to come across someone with tics or OCD/OCB who isn't insecure about their behaviour. Do I think this is more likely the case, however? No.

I think you are going to have to talk to him about it though because you need to understand this behaviour more. If he decides he can't "handle" that then he probably doesn't value the relationship enough and therefore be doing you a favour by going away. I don't see this as a problem with Asperger's, I see this more as either OCD behaviour or just being plain right inappropriate or rude. But it's difficult to call it with the information available.

If I were you I would have a discussion with him and try to do it in a neutral manner but try to get to the bottom of what he's feeling.

Thank you for your response - it is much appreciated (refer my response to the post above, which also relates to your post). I have often thought too that it may be associated with OCD, as it was frequently a series of actions that he would follow e.g. clear the throat, rub the chin and head, scratch the chest and arms and heavy breathing - but not sure about this type of thing. I certainly appreciate how insecure it would make anyone feel and how embarrassing it would be, and I have tried to explain to him that I just need to understand it.
I do worry that if he valued our relationship then he would be more willing to try and discuss this with me, but from what I have read about AS, some people with AS do not have this level of understanding (interesting that you think it may not be AS related). I have considered an ultimatum of having a conversation with me about it or I will need to leave the relationship, but it is very difficult knowing how to do this appropriately without setting the wrong scene to start with.

 

[KarenP]

Okay, guys - this one is on ya'll. Are these actions really tics? I see them as rude gestures. Heavy breathing, gyrations, touching himself? Not someone I'd want to be seen with, sorry.
My first husband was an alcoholic and a womanizer and I ended up hating him to the point I wished he would get in a car crash and die. He'd get drunk and was disgusting. He'd climb on top of my best friend and pretend to (for lack of a better word) hump her. She'd be upset, her husband would be upset and I'd be humiliated. Another friend went swimming with us and he thinks he's being funny by unsnapping her bikini top. Again - I'm horrified and humiliated. And, yes, he did cheat and it continued in all his marriages until he had a stroke and couldn't. This was the guy my parents tried to tell me I HAD to stay with. Couldn't do it.
So my point is that I could be seeing it and attaching bad memories, so a bit bias.

Thanks, Pat. I'm sorry to hear that you have been through such a tough relationship. I feel pretty certain that my partner cannot control his actions (though he can disguise them in company (e.g. if sitting next to him at a table of people, I am aware that he maybe moving his feet and legs, rather than rubbing his head, or keep a hand on his lap and move his fingers, and he will turn a guttural sound into a yawn). I feel very sorry for him as I'm not sure how I would cope if this happened to me - but I just need him to be able to discuss it with me and not tell me that I am lying and making it up.

 

[KarenP]

This may sound insensitive but why are you with him when he behaves like this to you?

I’ve met people who have a range of tics. Heck, I have them myself and do try to control them as best I can, but I’ve never come across someone behaving like this before, and I’ve been in various AS groups...

I actually agree with @Pats, and as a young female I’d be freaked out myself if I had someone ogling me in a very obsessed manner(and it does freak me out anyway so not sure if I’m biased there) let alone touching himself....I defined wouldn’t be thinking “poor bloke has this...”


It was a very difficult thing to read. And again, maybe I’m biased but I can not imagine how it must feel for you @KarenP, particularly in his refusal to talk about it.

Spectrum or not, that’s not acceptable behavior. And it shouldn’t be excused as “it’s ok he doesn’t mean it” because how far can that excuse go when it also can have an equally distressing experience for the person subjected to it? I’m also confused as to why he has started to do this two years into his relationship. Because that says to me that he can control it or it’s a newly developed tic? It’s very strange. And his anger and unwillingness to talk to you about it, is also strange. To say that it would be the end of your relationship? Why?

I think he sees it as the end of the relationship because it is so embarrassing for him. His sister told me that he had some type of tic as a child (jutted out his jaw and made a guttural sound) but he had outgrown this. The tics are definitely worse when he is relaxed (i.e. watching television each night).

 

[KarenP]

Karen I feel for you in this difficult situation. It must be very hard for you balancing the man you fell in love with against the man you live with now.
Let's leave the possibility of him being on the spectrum out of it for now because we don't know one way or the other for certain. AS may offer some context to his behaviour but it doesn't excuse it.
I am not sure if the behaviour described would qualify as tics. A tic is usually a short, involuntary burst, often a repetitive one. A verbal tic might be a repetitive phrase of a few words either muttered or shouted (because the ticcer tries to suppress it). A physical tic is usually similarly short and simple. There can be more complicated tics but they are far less common and sometimes associated with conditions that really should be treated. It sounds like he doesn't exhibit these tics much in other company either which is worrying (correct me if I've misunderstood). Since tics are involuntary they would be evident in situations involving other people too, even if he acknowledges them and makes a good job of suppression.
He appears to be a personality who likes to be in control and interprets questions as invasive and as criticism. This could be either due to him genuinely having secrets he does not want you to pry into or because of his insecurity over perceived challenges, but either way it is not helping him and is hurting you. He may well perceive you to be the one exhibiting controlling behaviour by being "nosy" or not trusting him, but no worthwhile relationship was ever built on withholding of information. If he cannot grasp this simple aspect of communication he is not going to be able to make the simple compromises you require. Trust must be earned by him, he cannot demand it, especially if his behaviour is somewhat suspicious.
If he is unwilling to talk to you about it, to seek external help or even admit he has a problem then there is little hope of you resolving the situation.
Your options are limited as I see them. He is unreceptive to communication so perhaps withdrawal of communication might prompt him to take the initiative to ask why, or to seek external advice like you have done. Forgive me for having doubts it will work but it is an option.
Failing this and combined with your many failed attempts at communication I see little else you can do other than evaluate whether to put up and shut up or go.
I hope someone else comes up with another option you can try

Thanks, Autistamatic. He definitely has a controlling personality, and does think that the problem all lies with me. If I try to speak to him about any concern, he asks me why I am with him if I am so unhappy and tells me to leave if I'm so unhappy (even if it is a very trivial thing I wish to discuss). I think I am probably at the stage where I realise I simply have to accept everything as it is if I am to stay. I have left for several days from time to time. It definitely becomes easier the more I learn about AS and hopefully by my avoiding behavioural triggers his behaviour will stay on a more even keel, and I will be able to lead a more peaceful life if I choose to stay with him long term. I was just hoping someone else on this forum may have encountered tics relating to attractive females (I'm not sure if it's sexual attraction, anxiety or a mixture of both) and be able to shed a bit of light on the subject, as I have not been able to find any relevant information elsewhere. I really appreciate everyone's comments. I saw a lovely saying the other day, which resonated well with me: "If you are willing to look at another person's behaviour toward you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather than a statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a period of time, cease to react at all". (However, it still hurts when someone fails to see the good in you.)

 

[Autistamatic]

Karen I have to say that I've not come across reference to tics being caused by sexual attraction/arousal specifically either, unless it's related to anxiety in such situations.
I'll mention one last thing for now. My wife is NT and a very perceptive woman. She's also a degree qualified Social Worker with years of experience working with troubled families. Her first take on your circumstances was:
"It sounds to me like he wants her to leave him, but just doesn't have the guts to initiate it himself. If she leaves then it's not his fault and he gets to be the victim."
Maybe it's a possibility worth considering? I leave it up to you.

 

[sidd851]

Thanks, Sidd. I agree with you all that you said, but unfortunately it is not that easy. He is an extremely closed person and refuses to speak to me about anything of a personal nature. He will simply get up and leave, or if I try to speak very gently and lovingly in bed, he simply refuses to answer or say anything at all. There is no open communication or trust, as I find it impossible to trust someone who keeps every aspect of his life a secret from me. If he goes out for the day (we are both retired) he gets very angry if I dare to ask him where he has been and tells me that he does not have to account for where he is. He will discuss everyday items or 'things that I need to know', such as gardening and shopping, but even then if I make a pleasant suggestion that doesn't suit him, he will take it as a personal attack and get angry with me. For example, I recently asked him very nicely if he would put a bit less coffee powder in my cup when he made me a coffee, explaining that I was drinking too much coffee of late and so I was trying to reduce the amount of coffee powder that I used, but he took this as a personal attack on him about the way he makes coffee. No matter how hard I try to say something nicely and in the right manner, he always takes it as an attack on him and gets very angry, telling me that all I do is criticise him.

I'm sorry, KarenP, for your difficulties.
I've been there, and, as in your case, shouldered the burden.
I certainly empathize.

I have no easy answer, but, as unenjoyable as the relationship is becoming, it is apparent that sooner or later, at this rate, it will reach a breaking point for you, at least.

I cannot know your exact situation, but sometimes it helps to hear someone lay out what we know, from an objective perspective.

Working from the beginning, the way he treats you has slowly changed.
It seems that either his feelings for you have changed over time, or he was not forthright about them from the first, or some difficulty has been worsening, or weighing on his mind more and more.

Unfortunately, given his refusal to have even the least dialog with you, you will have to make any decision regarding the relationship on your own. He has forced you into this position. It is unenviable, but the reality.

If you are cheerful and present no opinions, desires, or challenges, he tolerates your presence. The moment you have a desire or need, he becomes angry and agitated.
He offers no support or kindness, at precisely the time that you begin to need support and kindness.
This is insulting and damaging, and
he has no sympathy or empathy for you.

You will not survive this abuse, even if it gets no "worse".
You are a human being, with all of what that entails. The level of intimacy that you were content with has evaporated, and despite your best, goodwill effort, has not returned.

As it stands, I would say get out.
Whether you realize it yet, or not,
your mental and physical health is in danger. You cannot last in the face of cruelty in place of the affection and companionship that you desire.

Imagine, for a moment, that it is not some irritance or discomfort or unhappiness you are feeling that raises his ire and degradation.
Imagine instead that you are in the hospital.
Where is the loving support that any human being would need? 'Nuff said.

However, let's examine what we know about the change in his treatment of, and caring for, you.

If he was not forthright, from the beginning, about his true feelings, then there is nothing to salvage.

If his feelings for you have changed over time, and he has not discussed them or sought to explain them, or made the attempt to regain them, he does not care about your feelings, nor the relationship, and again, there is nothing to salvage.

If there is some difficulty that weighs ever more heavily on his mind, and he does not see you as a source of support or compassion, then you must assume that, in your time of need, he intends to not be that source of support or compassion for you.
This is borne out by the fact that he is not there for you now. Again, nothing to salvage.

Finally, if some condition is worsening, either the above holds true, or,
The condition is making him miserable, mentally, physically, or both, and he has no compunction in making you as miserable as he himself is. This is perhaps the most reprehensible, and ill-willed possibility.
There is nothing to salvage, and everything to save yourself from--- Run away. Quickly.

As far as the tics are concerned:
I have only exhibited tics two times in my life. Both times, I was in a relationship where the most unimaginable cruelties were being deliberately visited on me to inflict the greatest amount of psychological pain possible. Toward the end of both of these relationships, at my most demoralized and beaten states, the tics materialized.
I am well aware of what caused them.
Every time that I looked at something that once brought me joy, looked at something that in another place, another life, could have been a small enjoyment, things as simple as a book, a flower, a bird, a stream, a family, a woman---even when I looked at any other female--- I knew that no matter what, she was preferable to my current mate--- sight unseen, no-one could be so viciously cruel to me as I was being treated.
I knew that every other female I saw would treat me better. There was nothing sexual, in my tics.
Those tics were my mind and body jarring me spurring me, trying to make me believe that I would feel again. Feel happiness, feel joy, feel security, feel contentment. Feel.
The way that you described his tics,
brought memories, unwelcome, flooding back.

As all of the possibilities are equally detestable, and you have done your best to communicate compassionately, and he has refused to give you the courtesy of being able to plan for, or even make an informed decision regarding your own future and wellbeing, You must take responsibility for your own happiness and future...
And Move On.

Understand that to stay means that you are holding on to the belief that some amazing change will come over him, and he will revert to something that he never was, or become something that he has never been.

It is with a heavy heart, and no small reluctance that I offer this.

You deserve the chance to find happiness.
You deserve not to suffer.

He will give you neither.

All of this being said, there is one infinitesimal gambit here.

To pack your things and tell him you are leaving. Nothing more.
If you matter to him, he will break the silence.
If he doesn't communicate then, he won't ever, and you should go.

I am sorry to say this, but there is only one person ultimately responsible for your wellbeing.
You.

You are in my thoughts and meditations.
May you be healthy, happy, and well.

sidd

 

[Pats]

Thanks, Pat. I'm sorry to hear that you have been through such a tough relationship. I feel pretty certain that my partner cannot control his actions (though he can disguise them in company (e.g. if sitting next to him at a table of people, I am aware that he maybe moving his feet and legs, rather than rubbing his head, or keep a hand on his lap and move his fingers, and he will turn a guttural sound into a yawn). I feel very sorry for him as I'm not sure how I would cope if this happened to me - but I just need him to be able to discuss it with me and not tell me that I am lying and making it up.

Hi Karen. You are definitely in a difficult situation and I feel for you. I was reading over some of the comments and your replies and I started wondering if it was a type of seizure, which would explain why he would accuse you of lying. But then I seen your answer to my comment and seems he does have some control over what he's doing. Are you the only one who sees these things?
In regards to everything else - I'm afraid I have to agree with @sidd851 and say you need to consider your own wellbeing. His lack of respect and concern for you will destroy you over time and make you feel like you are not a person worth any consideration. That worries me because it can become so bad it could lead to thoughts of suicide because you will believe that you are just not worthwhile and why even exist. Have you considered narcissism? Just read over a list of traits and see if he fits more of those. I'm not saying he is, just something to consider and I hope you look into.
And I will say what I say to many who are struggling in a relationship and want you to think about it honestly without trying to justify and excuse him. If someone you loved were in the same situation, what would you advise them to do?
Your main concern seems to be him refusing to discuss the situation, which says a couple things, actually. That he is not concerned about your discomfort. That he has no intention of changing his actions. You can't force someone to talk about something if they don't want to, so there are no suggestions available for that. But, please, consider everything and try to stand back and think of it from a different perspective.
I'm sorry you've not gotten what you were hoping for out of this thread and know that all the responses you have gotten are from people who genuinely care. I know these people and I know how caring they are.

 

[Fino]

I'm glad we have so many analytical, considerate, pragmatic people!

The way I see it, it's this simple:
1. He's abusive.
2. Leave.

There isn't an illness or disability in the world that excuses abuse. If someone has one that begins to cause such behavior, it's their responsibility to immediately go into treatment. If he isn't grateful and joyous to have you with him, he doesn't deserve you, end of story.

 

[KarenP]

I'm sorry, KarenP, for your difficulties.
I've been there, and, as in your case, shouldered the burden.
I certainly empathize.

I have no easy answer, but, as unenjoyable as the relationship is becoming, it is apparent that sooner or later, at this rate, it will reach a breaking point for you, at least.

I cannot know your exact situation, but sometimes it helps to hear someone lay out what we know, from an objective perspective.

Working from the beginning, the way he treats you has slowly changed.
It seems that either his feelings for you have changed over time, or he was not forthright about them from the first, or some difficulty has been worsening, or weighing on his mind more and more.

Unfortunately, given his refusal to have even the least dialog with you, you will have to make any decision regarding the relationship on your own. He has forced you into this position. It is unenviable, but the reality.

If you are cheerful and present no opinions, desires, or challenges, he tolerates your presence. The moment you have a desire or need, he becomes angry and agitated.
He offers no support or kindness, at precisely the time that you begin to need support and kindness.
This is insulting and damaging, and
he has no sympathy or empathy for you.

You will not survive this abuse, even if it gets no "worse".
You are a human being, with all of what that entails. The level of intimacy that you were content with has evaporated, and despite your best, goodwill effort, has not returned.

As it stands, I would say get out.
Whether you realize it yet, or not,
your mental and physical health is in danger. You cannot last in the face of cruelty in place of the affection and companionship that you desire.

Imagine, for a moment, that it is not some irritance or discomfort or unhappiness you are feeling that raises his ire and degradation.
Imagine instead that you are in the hospital.
Where is the loving support that any human being would need? 'Nuff said.

However, let's examine what we know about the change in his treatment of, and caring for you.

If he was not forthright, from the beginning, about his true feelings, then there is nothing to salvage.

If his feelings for you have changed over time, and he has not discussed them or sought to explain them, or made the attempt to regain them, he does not care about your feelings, nor the relationship, and again, there is nothing to salvage.

If there is some difficulty that weighs ever more heavily on his mind, and he does not see you as a source of support or compassion, then you must assume that, in your time of need, he intends to not be that source of support or compassion for you.
This is borne out by the fact that he is not there for you now. Again, nothing to salvage.

Finally, if some condition is worsening, either the above holds true, or,
The condition is making him miserable, mentally, physically, or both, and he has no compunction in making you as miserable as he himself is. This is perhaps the most reprehensible, and ill-willed possibility.
There is nothing to salvage, and everything to save yourself from--- Run away. Quickly.

As far as the tics are concerned:
I have only exhibited tics two times in my life. Both times, I was in a relationship where the most unimaginable cruelties were being deliberately visited on me to inflict the greatest amount of psychological pain possible. Toward the end of both of these relationships, at my most demoralized and beaten states, the tics materialized.
I am well aware of what caused them.
Every time that I looked at something that once brought me joy, looked at something that in another place, another life, could have been a small enjoyment, things as simple as a book, a flower, a bird, a stream, a family, a woman---even when I looked at any other female--- I knew that no matter what, she was preferable to my current mate--- sight unseen, no-one could be so viciously cruel to me as I was being treated.
I knew that every other female I saw would treat me better. There was nothing sexual, in my tics.
Those tics were my mind and body jarring me spurring me, trying to make me believe that I would feel again. Feel happiness, feel joy, feel security, feel contentment. Feel.
The way that you described his tics,
brought memories, unwelcome, flooding back.

As all of the possibilities are equally detestable, and you have done your best to communicate compassionately, and he has refused to give you the courtesy of being able to plan for, or even make an informed decision regarding your own future and wellbeing, You must take responsibility for your own happiness and future...
And Move On.

Understand that to stay means that you are holding on to the belief that some amazing change will come over him, and he will revert to something that he never was, or become something that he has never been.

It is with a heavy heart, and no small reluctance that I offer this.

You deserve the chance to find happiness.
You deserve not to suffer.

He will give you neither.

All of this being said, there is one infinitesimal gambit here.

To pack your things and tell him you are leaving. Nothing more.
If you matter to him, he will break the silence.
If he doesn't communicate then, he won't ever, and you should go.

I am sorry to say this, but there is only one person ultimately responsible for your wellbeing.
You.

You are in my thoughts and meditations.
May you be healthy, happy, and well.

sidd

Thank you for your beautiful post, Sidd. All that you said is so true. I'm sure his feelings for me have changed and probably because he thinks I have been 'cruel' to him, but I'm sure in a very different way to your partner was cruel to you. For example, one day without asking him I pulled a 1 inch lettuce seedling out of my rose garden. It had sprung up on its own, probably from lettuces which the previous home owner had planted. He was absolutely furious with me, went berserk, stormed out and did not speak to me for 5 days or even acknowledge that I existed in the house. Another time I put a piece of raw chicken on the bench top (very clean bench top) rather than on a board, which resulted in the same response from him. And, of course, I then get the blame for his behaviour.

And his lack of empathy (or I should say, no empathy - not even acknowledging that I exist) when I have been extremely ill or recovering from operations has been completely inhuman.

I stay physically fit and healthy, have great girlfriends and enjoy sports, which all help to keep me sane. However, I do know that both my mental and physical health are suffering, so I do need to be strong and move on. It is probably my fear of being alone in old age that keeps me hanging on more than anything. I do not think anyone should be on their own.

I did leave for 4 days a few months ago, which did result in him trying to speak to me about a few things, and probably in the best way he knows how - which was about one tenth of one percent of all the things I would like to discuss with him and find answers for. However, he simply cannot understand my point of view, ever. At that time, I didn't question him specifically about his tics, but simply explained that I can happily live with them, providing that he gives me some affection, such as putting a hand on my knee. I explained that I cannot cope with him reacting to every attractive woman when he fails to acknowledge that I even exist. Things did improve for a few weeks, and life was pleasant and peaceful, but quickly deteriorated again. However, we do have times that are quite okay and generally I feel happy as a person.

I really appreciate everyone's comments and concern. Thank you all.

 

[KarenP]

Karen I have to say that I've not come across reference to tics being caused by sexual attraction/arousal specifically either, unless it's related to anxiety in such situations.
I'll mention one last thing for now. My wife is NT and a very perceptive woman. She's also a degree qualified Social Worker with years of experience working with troubled families. Her first take on your circumstances was:
"It sounds to me like he wants her to leave him, but just doesn't have the guts to initiate it himself. If she leaves then it's not his fault and he gets to be the victim."
Maybe it's a possibility worth considering? I leave it up to you.

Thanks, Autistamatic. I'd have to agree that his behaviour points to wanting me to leave, but I don't really think this is the case. From what I can gather, he treated his wife of 30 years much worse than he treats me, but was absolutely devastated when she finally left (and perhaps still isn't over it). It's all very hard to make sense of.

 

[sidd851]

It's all very hard to make sense of.

This is a trap that we humans so often fall into. The "need" to "make sense" of it.

I have done so many times, though I like to think that I am wiser now.

Our analytical minds are presented with a confounding, seemingly correlated problem, and we ignore the simple facts that point to the obvious solution.

We have, most of us, witnessed that doomed relationship wherein one person, the one who is/has been doing most or all of the suffering, stubbornly and repeatedly tries to " figure out why s/he's doing this", or, "why this is happening to me".

We may even remember having done this ourselves, but it's terribly difficult to recognize it when we're doing it.


Because the perplexing set of events and the untenable situation are simultaneous and proximate, we confuse and combine the two, believing that if we solve the one, we will repair the other.
This is faulty thinking, but it is very common.

It is relatively easy to see this phenomenon in others, when we witness that physically abused woman, or that repeatedly cuckolded man, stuck in the trap, asking the same question over and over and over---"Why?", "Why?", "Why?, sometimes for years.
We will become exasperated, disgusted, and finally avoidant--- we can't bear to watch this person toil so hard, suffering so badly, trying to work out the reasoning for
ill-treatment that is so obviously unaffected by the analysis.

Sometimes, the suffering individual will luck upon, or work out, a motivation for the treatment--- the one doing the mistreating will almost invariably "open up", or "reveal" or "admit" some "truth" about their
behavior--- which, also almost invariably, is a lie intended to mislead. Because for you to remain puzzled, "investigating", means that the behavior can continue as planned.

The truth is that persistent, destructive, assaultive behavior is not something that occurs by
accident or unbeknownst to the one perpetrating it. If it was done unwittingly, there would, by definition, be no resistance to discussing it because it is unwitting.

Who refuses to talk about
something they're unaware of?
Let that sink in.

I'm sorry to say:

He is doing what he is doing deliberately.
He knows he is hurting you badly.
That is why he is doing it.
He is doing it to hurt you badly.
He is doing it because whatever reward he gets from hurting you badly is greater than his concern or remorse for the pain and damage he is causing you, assuming that he has any.

If there weren't a reward, he would not continue to hurt you.

This is not going to get better.
You are not getting any younger.
As @Pats said,
What advice would you give your daughter, were she in this situation?

Please, get yourself away from this abusive man.

sidd

 

[KarenP]

This is a trap that we humans so often fall into. The "need" to "make sense" of it.

I have done so many times, though I like to think that I am wiser now.

Our analytical minds are presented with a confounding, seemingly correlated problem, and we ignore the simple facts that point to the obvious solution.

We have, most of us, witnessed that doomed relationship wherein one person, the one who is/has been doing most or all of the suffering, stubbornly and repeatedly tries to " figure out why s/he's doing this", or, "why this is happening to me".

We may even remember having done this ourselves, but it's terribly difficult to recognize it when we're doing it.


Because the perplexing set of events and the untenable situation are simultaneous and proximate, we confuse and combine the two, believing that if we solve the one, we will repair the other.
This is faulty thinking, but it is very common.

It is relatively easy to see this phenomenon in others, when we witness that physically abused woman, or that repeatedly cuckolded man, stuck in the trap, asking the same question over and over and over---"Why?", "Why?", "Why?, sometimes for years.
We will become exasperated, disgusted, and finally avoidant--- we can't bear to watch this person toil so hard, suffering so badly, trying to work out the reasoning for
ill-treatment that is so obviously unaffected by the analysis.

Sometimes, the suffering individual will luck upon, or work out, a motivation for the treatment--- the one doing the mistreating will almost invariably "open up", or "reveal" or "admit" some "truth" about their
behavior--- which, also almost invariably, is a lie intended to mislead. Because for you to remain puzzled, "investigating", means that the behavior can continue as planned.

The truth is that persistent, destructive, assaultive behavior is not something that occurs by
accident or unbeknownst to the one perpetrating it. If it was done unwittingly, there would, by definition, be no resistance to discussing it because it is unwitting.

Who refuses to talk about
something they're unaware of?
Let that sink in.

I'm sorry to say:

He is doing what he is doing deliberately.
He knows he is hurting you badly.
That is why he is doing it.
He is doing it to hurt you badly.
He is doing it because whatever reward he gets from hurting you badly is greater than his concern or remorse for the pain and damage he is causing you, assuming that he has any.

If there weren't a reward, he would not continue to hurt you.

This is not going to get better.
You are not getting any younger.
As @Pats said,
What advice would you give your daughter, were she in this situation?

Please, get yourself away from this abusive man.

sidd

Thanks, Sidd. You are probably spot on, and I probably know all of this is my brain, and I just keep looking for excuses, hoping that one day I will be able to make it work. He sounds so, so convincing at times about things that I have even worried that he may have some schizophrenic episodes that he cannot recall. For example, some years back when he was working he returned that evening with quite a bad scratch across his back (appeared to me to be a fingernail scratch). He said he had no idea how it had got there, and didn't attempt to make up an excuse - just seemed totally perplexed himself, and this type of thing happened on quite a few occasions. I did end up thinking that he had done inappropriate things with other women, but somehow had managed to completely block them out of his mind so that he did not believe he had done them. This probably sounds like I am being completely naïve, but I seriously think there is more to it than that. At a later time, following an argument about the back scratches, he told me to get out so I left and stayed with a girlfriend overnight. He texted me the following day saying that he missed me and asking that I please return (cycle of abuse, I know). He is very good looking and very rich (not that he shares any of it with me), so he could very easily get a new partner.

His elder daughter has been through two abusive relationships, and he has hated these men and was very unhappy that his daughter was in such relationships. While the latter relationship included some physical abuse, I have explained to him at times (in bed at night when I can speak my mind gently, even though he never responds) that his treatment of me, although not physical, is abusive and have asked him whether he would like his daughter to have a partner who treats her the way he treats me. Of course, he doesn't respond, but I have tried to get my point across. He really doesn't seem to understand that his behaviour towards me at times is abusive. But then, at times I think he appears quite depressed because he knows he is treating me badly. As you suggested, I need to stop analysing things, but I have never come across such a complicated personality, and it certainly confuses the hell out of me.

One day when I returned from work (again, a few years ago now), he appeared to be in a very good mood and I said nicely, "It would be really nice if just occasionally you asked me how my day was." He replied in a venomous tone that why would he possibly give a damn what my day was like, that I go to work and do some typing and answer some phones (I was a national coordinator at the time); so why would he possibly want to know about that. I was pretty gob-smacked at his response, but just let it go. A few weeks later, again when he was in a good mood, I brought it up and said that I could not believe he could say such a thing to me, even if it was what he thought. Again he replied, though in a gentle tone, that it was true and why would he possibly care what my day was like. He really didn't seem to understand how inappropriate it was. That comment hurt me badly, and it was one of the things which I made him discuss following me leaving him for four days a few months ago. He acknowledged it was inappropriate and said sorry, but probably only because we were at the point of whether I would leave or stay. I try to point out that he would never speak to his daughters or sister the way he speaks to me, and ask him why he does it, but he doesn't respond to those type of questions.

He will often spend time just lying on his bed during the day, and I assume this is depression. Of recent years, he has lost interest in most of all his hobbies and at one stage I felt quite certain that he had dementia. I was working for a dementia organisation at the time, and he fit the criteria perfectly, including what appeared to be a loss of usual inhibitions. However, the worse behaviour has since stopped, so maybe he was going through a period of depression / schizophrenic episodes. I have noticed that stress is a major trigger for bizarre behaviour, 'melt downs', memory loss and treating me badly - such as death of a relative or preparing for retirement and selling his business which he had been in for 40 years.

On the positive side, I know that mixing with people is difficult and tiring for him, but I am aware that he really tries when he is with my family members or my friends (now that he has got to know them better).

Once again, many thanks for your comments and concern.

 

[Fino]

You are incredibly tolerant. I would have quickly been suicidal if I remained near behavior of that sort.

 

[BlueSky Aozora]

Thanks, Autistamatic. He definitely has a controlling personality, and does think that the problem all lies with me. If I try to speak to him about any concern, he asks me why I am with him if I am so unhappy and tells me to leave if I'm so unhappy

No, Karen, it's not your fault. You are so kind. You're being accommodating even though you're hurt. You see the goods in him even when you're hurt.

I saw a lovely saying the other day, which resonated well with me: "If you are willing to look at another person's behaviour toward you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather than a statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a period of time, cease to react at all". (However, it still hurts when someone fails to see the good in you.)

Such a nice quote, but yes, it hurts when the person you love, whom you sacrifice yourself so much for, only criticize you.

I'm so sorry for you, Karen. Please dont blame yourself, and please prioritize your health & happiness. I hope things'll get better for you..