The Way We See Low Functioning is Wrong!

[pjcnet]

Indeed, even though I'm Aspie, I could possibly win Mastermind

And you know Anne Hegarty, aka the Governess on the UK version of The Chase? Apparently she's Aspie, and she's one of THE cleverest women in the UK, although she has lost to good teams, for instance last Monday all 4 got through and won the final chase, and same last night.

I understand your point, but contrary to popular belief, being able to answer "general knowledge" questions, most of which have absolutely no importance in general living, isn't an accurate test of intelligence. Even though most people who are good at general knowledge are intelligent, it is just one talent out of a huge range of possible talents that someone can be good at. It therefore definitely doesn't mean you're not intelligent just because you haven't wanted to spend your life watching TV programmes, reading books and/or Internet articles that often have the answers to mainstream general knowledge questions that you happen to be interested in memorising. Many people have little or no interest in most of the subjects that are usually covered in such quizzes and not only are they less likely to seek this knowledge, but they're less likely to remember it too. Since many people on the autistic spectrum have very specific abilities in narrow areas, this often makes them poor at general knowledge too, unless of course they have a specific interest in general knowledge quizzes, but they can be stunning at their special interest and are also often extremely intelligent. For instance if a person is an incredible computer programmer they're obviously very intelligent, but they could often fail miserably on a general knowledge quiz and a computer programming question that they would find ridiculously easy is extremely rare. I wonder how well even Albert Einstein would have done on a general knowledge quiz, because I suspect not that well? People suspect he may have been on the autistic spectrum too.

Here is a completely random general knowledge question: "Which boxer was nicknamed 'The Dark Destroyer'?". Whether someone knows or doesn't know the answer to this question has absolutely no relevance to general living, and it most definitely doesn't mean they're not intelligent if they don't know it either. Personally I didn't know the answer because I'm not interested in boxing or in fact sport in general, also since this doesn't really interest me I might well forget the answer again even after revealing it. If you want to know the answer please click below lol!

Spoiler: Please click here to reveal the answer.

Nigel Benn

Just to bring this back to relevance of the original thread, someone on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum most probably won't be good at general knowledge either, except perhaps in extremely rare cases where their special ability is remembering such answers, but this doesn't mean that they're not intelligent in other ways, even if they are somewhat childlike and can't comprehend many of the questions.

 

[Progster]

Here is a completely random general knowledge question: "Which boxer was nicknamed 'The Dark Destroyer'?". Whether someone knows or doesn't know the answer to this question has absolutely no relevance to general living, and it most definitely doesn't mean they're not intelligent if they don't know it either. Personally I didn't know the answer because I'm not interested in boxing or in fact sport in general, also since this doesn't really interest me I might well forget the answer again even after revealing it.

I completely agree with this point - I don't know much about pop culture or sport either, but that doesn't mean that I'm not intelligent. I remember when I was younger, I sometime played a board game, Trivial Pursuit, with questions on entertainment, arts & literature, sport, history, geography, science & nature, and I always sucked at the arts & literature, sports and entertainment questions, but was relatively good at science & nature, geography and history. Most people I played against were the opposite.

One of my students once told me, "I'm amazed at the things you know, and the things that you don't know"

 

[All-Rounder]

You’re missing my point, I don’t think you need to be sharing your “discovery” with a forum full of people on the autism spectrum.
Many of us know people on the lower functioning part of the spectrum, some of us are LFA ourselves. Everyone on the spectrum lives life with autism everyday, so we’re very much aware of how wrong the general public tends to be about autism. That includes the misconception that we have hidden powers and/or talents.
Again, I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but maybe consider what audience you want to pitch to, and what you’re trying to achieve.

To better explain why I didn't say anything about your point, was because I was completely aware that there are people who know, even before you posted about it 3 times. I appreciate your criticism and consideration about my lack of knowledge about this website, but I didn't want to touch your topic was because it was obvious to me what you had said, as well as it was your point, so it was not something I felt I needed to reply to with my own opinion necessarily. I also noticed you were already aware there are people who don't know about it, from what you said, so made it even more pointless.

 

[Ylva]

All members here are either on the higher functioning end of the spectrum or NT in order to fully comprehend the workings of the forum and to be-able to read/write.

Wrong.

may have a maturity defecit. some auties may have the mental state of infants, and this may never go away. These people need help and support throug

The next person who alludes to "mental age" will have to come up with a very good explanation for what it is and how they can know so easily what somebody else's is.

 

[Crossbreed]

The next person who alludes to "mental age" will have to come up with a very good explanation for what it is and how they can know so easily what somebody else's is.

My ASD2 & ASD3 children were tested for that specifically.

In my daughter's case (23, m.a.= 18mos.), they gave her the same test as they do for kindergarten readiness.

For my son (30, m.a.= 8+2 years), they gave him an exhaustive evaluation at a mental institution.

Those that are mute but have age-appropriate understanding find other ways to communicate. They spent 13 years (in school) trying to find an alternative means of communication for my daughter, with no success.

My son is verbal.

(Casually, any parent that has successfully raised an NT or high-functioning autie will have some sense of age equivalence.)

 

[Ylva]

My ASD2 & ASD3 children were tested for that specifically.

In my daughter's case (23, m.a.= 18mos.), they gave her the same test as they do for kindergarten readiness.

For my son (30, m.a.= 8+2 years), they gave him an exhaustive evaluation at a mental institution.

Those that are mute but have age-appropriate understanding find other ways to communicate. They spent 13 years (in school) trying to find an alternative means of communication for my daughter, with no success.

My son is verbal.

(Casually, any parent that has successfully raised an NT or high-functioning autie will have some sense of age equivalence.)

No matter how many times you tell me about your grown kids and how you consider them to be small children, it won't explain the thing. Does your son's brain scan as not having a pfc? Does your daughter's brain form millions of new connections each day only to eat most of them while she sleeps? Don't answer that – it will only barely count as evidence. At most it would prompt a study of brain scans, but it would be weird if no one has thought of that already.

Yes, yes, I know people associate behaviors with ages, because parents like that I guess. And really, what is kindergarden readiness? I'm sure you tested for whether she would simply disengage out of boredom or humiliation. Seriously, stop telling me about the medical history of these adults who clearly haven't consented to having their personal info shared.

 

[Crossbreed]

Seriously, stop telling me about the medical history of these adults who clearly haven't consented to having their personal info shared.

They're anonymous. (That's allowable.) And you did ask for an objective basis for mental age...

 

[Mary Anne]

Can you Please explain what these labels mean? ASD3 And ASD2. How many classifications are there? Sorry, I am new to all this. I have sensory Disorders and am seeing an official diagnosis. I am still mystified by the removal of “Asperger’s” label in the DSM 5.

 

[Rayner]

There are 3. ASD 1 being the least severe and ASD 3 the most severe.

Can you Please explain what these labels mean? ASD3 And ASD2. How many classifications are there? Sorry, I am new to all this. I have sensory Disorders and am seeing an official diagnosis. I am still mystified by the removal of “Asperger’s” label in the DSM 5.

 

[Mary Anne]

Ouch, Ylva, that’s harsh words for a parent dealing with these challenges to be talked to like that. Obviously Streetwise has lived with a life of challenges. And correctly, no names were mentioned, so HIPPA laws (or even respect for the subjects discussed) are not broken. I can imagine that some feel uncomfortable discussing functionality, labels, or cognitive ranges at all.

 

[Ylva]

some feel uncomfortable discussing functionality, labels, or cognitive ranges at all.

Maybe if someone could come up with something more objective, like a survey or a nonverbal autistics testimony or anything that's not a parent (or grandparent, or aunt, or uncle…) describing their own kid.

If someone has the brain of a toddler then one should be able to interact with them, as people have been known to interact with toddlers multiple times.

 

[Mary Anne]

There are 3. ASD 1 being the least severe and ASD 3 the most severe.

Thanks! What does ASD stand for and where should I go to read up on this classification system? I

Maybe if someone could come up with something more objective, like a survey or a nonverbal autistics testimony or anything that's not a parent (or grandparent, or aunt, or uncle…) describing their own kid.

If someone has the brain of a toddler then one should be able to interact with them, as people have been known to interact with toddlers multiple times.

Yeah, but how would you like a family member dealing a lifetime with these challenges to describe their children with intensive Autism? I am pretty sure there are plenty of scientists who sound descriptively objective. Parents, and family are emotionally attached and therefore not objective at all. Also, the world is filled with sad things that “should have”, ‘could have,” or should have been more fair. A toddler with extreme cognitive difficulties might not be able to interact with a parent OR the parent might FEEL that they can’t interact. At the very least, a parent might not understand HOW to interact, and do not know the toddler’s communication styles.

 

[pjcnet]

Wrong..

I disagree, if someone is able to understand this forum, read/write and participate in it, then they are not on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum because they are comprehending things at a higher level. My adult brothers couldn't comprehend what a forum was for instance, plus they can't read/write, count to 5, tell the time and they have a similar understanding of much of the world as a 2 or 3 year old child, except in some ways they're not like children at all. They are still intelligent in other ways however, but there is absolutely no possible way they'd ever be-able to participate in this forum, unless someone else was writing in their name which wouldn't really be them.

 

[Ylva]

A toddler with extreme cognitive difficulties

Would be considered to have the "mental age" of someone even younger, at least in this context.

I disagree,

There are so-called low-functioning people on this forum. I am not going to pretend I know who all of them are, let alone out the ones I am aware of, but you should really consider that "functioning" is something other than thinking. You can't reason your way to fine motor skills. I sure can't reason my way to executive functioning.

 

[Crossbreed]

What does ASD stand for...?

Autism Spectrum Disorder is the DSM-5 name for the spectrum. Within that diagnosis, there are severity levels 1-3. Usually, preliterate autistics are found to be ASD3s, but not all ASD3s are preliterate. (That seems to be a point of contention in this thread.)

Everyone who communicates using text is literate to some degree.

(DSM-4's Asperger's Syndrome would be ASD1 in the DSM-5.)

Obviously Streetwise has lived with a life of challenges...

Crossbreed...

 

[Crossbreed]

There are so-called low-functioning people on this forum.

None preliterate, though.

 

[All-Rounder]

I disagree, if someone is able to understand this forum, read/write and participate in it, then they are not on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum because they are comprehending things at a higher level. My adult brothers couldn't comprehend what a forum was for instance, plus they can't read/write, count to 5, tell the time and they have a similar understanding of much of the world as a 2 or 3 year old child, except in some ways they're not like children at all. They are still intelligent in other ways however, but there is absolutely no possible way they'd ever be-able to participate in this forum, unless someone else was writing in their name which wouldn't really be them.

What happens, though, if they don't want or aren't interested in communicating at all with people?

 

[pjcnet]

Would be considered to have the "mental age" of someone even younger, at least in this context.



There are so-called low-functioning people on this forum. I am not going to pretend I know who all of them are, let alone out the ones I am aware of, but you should really consider that "functioning" is something other than thinking. You can't reason your way to fine motor skills. I sure can't reason my way to executive functioning.

I have to agree to disagree then, because in my opinion they're definitely not low functioning, even if they're diagnosed as such. I know what low functioning autism is all about from my 2 brothers, even though we inherit some of the traits, there's a huge difference between high and low functioning autism.

What happens, though, if they don't want or aren't interested in communicating at all with people?

Someone that doesn't want to communicate at all may or may not be high functioning, but the people who participate in this forum are high functioning.

 

[All-Rounder]

I am still mystified by the removal of “Asperger’s” label in the DSM 5.

There is a main reason why it changed to ASD instead of the category Asperger's now as a diagnosis.

I would also guess its easier for the others to understand because people are more aware about what Autism is than Asperger's or other terms. People are just so different as well so it doesn't matter as long as they have the right diagnosis as autism and state support and proper treatment for whatever the individual needs. Autism affects each individual differently whether they're diagnosed as lower or higher, so it's possible to miscategorize them like they did for that writer which had all the symptoms needed to put him as lower. Besides, I think lower has now become more of a diagnosis as relating to how much they can do either physically or mentally in society, in a world built like ours, which doesnt mean they arent smart or have abilities and we have prolly no means of valuing what they have at the moment or because they would not be able to communicate or share it like the guy rocking in the wheelchair.


This is the cnn news about diagnosis change:

Doctor: Why we're making changes to autism diagnosis - CNN


And here is the main reason which outweights the main fear:

Psychiatry 'bible' structure overhauled

 

[Crossbreed]

I have to agree to disagree then, because in my opinion they're definitely not low functioning, even if they're diagnosed as such. I know what low functioning autism is all about from my 2 brothers, even though we inherit some of the traits, there's a huge difference between high and low functioning autism.

I think that a better distinction would be literate vs. preliterate for the ASD3s in question.