So I started to post about autism on a homeschooling forum...

[Fridgemagnetman]

Every once in a while I feel rebellious and think, 'Screw it. I'm putting on my left sock first.' But then I don't."

Almost a sock rebel.

I sometimes wear my slippers on the wrong feet deliberately.

That's the kind of thing going down around here.

Deal with it.

 

[Anarkitty]

Maybe reading books would be helpful. You might consider quoting out of books in order to teach. Or post the picture of the brain difference in NT and autism to enlighten them.

This might be the thing to do. I've certainly highlighted enough passages over the last few months of reading.

But I know what you're saying about being comfortable on this forum so you think other forums might be the same. I'd say they are not. And for one thing, this forum has some really great moderators that watch and make sure we are protected from harsh words of others, while other forums don't.

I did see one other autism forum in particular which kind of scares me. I've actually seen a lot of posts here which look like ones that I've made when I've irritated people in the past--blunt ones, posts which correct previous statements, etc. But I recognize the thinking that prompts those kinds of posts, and they just make me smile because I know they're not meant maliciously. I grok y'all.

I don't grok the people on that homeschooling forum. I never did. I tried, hard. But I just don't.

 

[Jojo_LB]

Just want to say, big kudos to you for trying to remain in a forum in which kids are the main subjects. I tried parenting forums many times in the past and I gave up.

I guess I just never had very good experiences with them. Parents are so judgmental, especially NT parents.

But I guess, if you think it's worth putting up with a bunch of NT parents and it doesn't suck the life force out... Power to you.

 

[RosaViolet]

Then bipolar became the handbag dog of celebrity. After i made a joke about it becoming 'fashionable' ages ago.

Now we get handbag autism. Where lots of idiots will start claiming they're a bit autistic because they once counted up to 5.

I can see what you mean about the handbag. But a part of me thinks maybe it helps to remove the stigma. Mental illness used to be extremely taboo but now fortunately it has a cool side, people are openly talking about it and attitudes softened. A cool handbag as you say, so maybe it is good ...

On the other hand I can see what Progster is saying. I also find irritating comments like 'there is nothing wrong with her [your child]" and "We are all a little autistic'. It minimises the problem.

Trivialising a medical condition that can actually be very debilitating and hard to live with. A social statement. Reduced to an ememe, whose actual meaning has been lost

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Mental illness used to be extremely taboo but now fortunately it has a cool side, people are openly talking about it and attitudes softened. A cool handbag as you say, so maybe it is good ...

I agree . It becomes more mainstream. More understanding but also more misunderstanding.
Perhaps a better starting position.

 

[RosaViolet]

I saw on another form recently an autistic woman saying that in NT parents groups people are talking about their autistic children insensitively. Exposing their vulnerability for no particular reason, without concern for their dignity and privacy. An exhibitionism. Apparently a lot of it is about seeking sympathy for the 'tragic' autism problem. I would find such forums very upsetting and stifling.

I was initially surprised by your comment:

I've found discussing autism somewhat like discussing religion. So I normally don't bring it up on a open (NT) forum.

But considering what is said about those NT 'venting' forums, I understand.

On the other hand I used to post on a NT forum with a very good autism niche. Comments there were very sensitive and protective. People really give supportive well informed advice. But recently a couple of posters propped up with a little less sensitive approach, so I stopped. Maybe I will go back at some point. It is definitely good for advice though.

 

[RosaViolet]

Actually I find that some things that would be quite mainstream and uncontroversial there [on the other NT forum] are more contested here.

@Anarkitty , may I ask you, are home schooling issues with ASC specific to ASC or more to do with homeschooling? I guess I am asking whether there is a specific body of advice for homeschooling specifically autistic children?

 

[Anarkitty]

But I guess, if you think it's worth putting up with a bunch of NT parents and it doesn't suck the life force out... Power to you.

I went back there this morning and read through some messages, and I'm pretty sure it would suck the life force out of me. I want to educate people, and I want to bring attention to my business, but I'm pretty sure this isn't the way for me.

I also find irritating comments like 'there is nothing wrong with her [your child]" and "We are all a little autistic'. It minimises the problem.

I already hate the "we are all a little autistic" line. An online friend has a son who is possibly an Aspie--he was being evaluated at the college he's attending (I didn't completely understand what she was saying)--and when I mentioned needing accommodations, she made a snarky comment about how the needs of autistic people to have things a certain way can "make everyone else a little autistic." Her attitude really seemed to be that we're just picky jerks sometimes. And I don't know how to respond to that kind of statement because people who feel that way apparently just are not interested in considering how the world looks to the rest of us.

 

[Anarkitty]

@Anarkitty , may I ask you, are home schooling issues with ASC specific to ASC or more to do with homeschooling? I guess I am asking whether there is a specific body of advice for homeschooling specifically autistic children?

I'm not sure. I've only homeschooled one autistic child, and I was unaware that he was autistic at the time. And the reality is that each of my five children have been slightly different to homeschool. For instance, I have used six different math curricula over the years because my children have all had such different needs and levels of understanding.

I think all homeschooling questions and answers can end up being fairly complicated because they combine the educational philosophy of the parent(s) with the individual needs of the child(ren) in question. And for autistic children--as with ADHD, dyslexia, etc.--their level and areas of impairment would definitely have to guide curriculum choices and how to cover some subjects.

Interestingly, though, when I read The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome, I realized that I had used my son's special interests to teach him persuasive writing. He was coming up with arguments on these subjects anyway, so I encouraged him to write essays about them. So for his high school writing assignments, he wrote about how the Star Wars movies could be viewed as pro-Jedi propaganda and how one of the authors of the Federalist Papers might have been a time traveler. He had a blast.

 

[RosaViolet]

she made a snarky comment about how the needs of autistic people to have things a certain way can "make everyone else a little autistic." Her attitude really seemed to be that we're just picky jerks sometimes.

I came across that, not on the parent forum, but in a different place.
There are nasty autism hate groups out there that are saying deliberately quite unacceptable things and are 'spreading the message'.

Amongst many nasty ideas, they have this tenet that accomodations area ridiculous things that should not be, and if they would do accommodations they sort of 'catch aspergers'. They even have a word for it 'aspergation'.
Sadly this gastly idea originates from no other than Tony Attwood.

I came across them in relation to adults, but I wasn't aware these ideas made the way into parent groups, applied to children. This is awful, those groups advocate coercive control and emotional abuse.

 

[Anarkitty]

I saw on another form recently an autistic woman saying that in NT parents groups people are talking about their autistic children insensitively. Exposing their vulnerability for no particular reason, without concern for their dignity and privacy. An exhibitionism. Apparently a lot of it is about seeking sympathy for the 'tragic' autism problem. I would find such forums very upsetting and stifling.

I want to say that I can understand this because I do understand the need to vent on occasion, and I understand that parenting any kind of child is a royal pain some days. I feel like I have a right to discuss my own experiences, and some of those experiences happen to include people in my household.

BUT... I've come to understand that what I mean by venting is not necessarily what others mean. I've read about some of the books which have come out written by "autism parents." They're awful, giving detailed information about their children, and they're not even anonymous, so everyone in the child's community can go and read what should be private details of the child's life. To Siri, with Love is the one that comes immediately to mind. I wanted to punch that woman when I read what she had written about her son.

So it's really not the same as when I say that my son argued that a founding father was possibly a time traveler, that he didn't sleep well as a baby, or that he used to walk on his tiptoes. There's a definite line there.

 

[Jojo_LB]

I went back there this morning and read through some messages, and I'm pretty sure it would suck the life force out of me. I want to educate people, and I want to bring attention to my business, but I'm pretty sure this isn't the way for me.

I already hate the "we are all a little autistic" line. An online friend has a son who is possibly an Aspie--he was being evaluated at the college he's attending (I didn't completely understand what she was saying)--and when I mentioned needing accommodations, she made a snarky comment about how the needs of autistic people to have things a certain way can "make everyone else a little autistic." Her attitude really seemed to be that we're just picky jerks sometimes. And I don't know how to respond to that kind of statement because people who feel that way apparently just are not interested in considering how the world looks to the rest of us.

For godsake. That is so annoying!

I have yet to experience the misfortune of some NT telling me that "we're all a little autistic/we all have some ADHD", etc. I say it like it's going to happen, because I know it is. I have seen some ignorant people online say stuff like that. I am not sure how to handle it tbh, so maybe I should give it some thought.

I understand that it seems to make logical sense that NT's learn about neurodiversity from people like us. But it takes a lot of effort to do that, and it just wouldn't be fair to expect or demand that we expend that energy. I think there are some people worth educating, like the ones who are receptive, do more listening than talking over, interrupting, and pushing back, ones who vow to learn from their mistakes. But I find that more often than not, people just want to argue, hate being corrected, get so defensive and jump to offense mode.

 

[RosaViolet]

I've come to understand that what I mean by venting is not necessarily what others mean.

Exactly, this is what I mean by 'sensitively'. In that other place where I used to post people, mostly mothers were perfectly capable to discuss their issues, to seek and give advice without their comments being degrading, dehumanising or too exhibitionists. Somehow parents could strike the right tone. So it was very helpful, supportive and informative. There wasn't any autism bashing or complaining about the 'tragedy'.Occasionally someone would post that they are at breaking point and cant cope and recent the situation, and people would not judge but say we understand, you are going a good job, just get some support, take some care of yourself. This is perfectly fine with me because the tone was very protective, sympathetic and respectful.

But then a couple of posters started to get a little off pitch and it poisoned the place for everyone. Threads became much shorter and less informative.

Generally I think families need some support, because it is stressful to parent autistic children, especially when dealing with all the SEN things, it becomes a continuous battle. Mothers need some support and possibly therapy. But it doesn't entitle anyone to autism hate messages.

 

[Anarkitty]

This post got all rambling. Just so you know.

I want a shirt that says "Autastic." I pretty much want to add, "I'm autistic," to every introduction. And I want to info-dump all the information that I've learned about it to people I meet. My brain is convinced that the world will change if only people understand. You can add every other topic that I'm passionate about to this, too--it's not just autism.

My husband has always believed that I'm a bit naive and need to be protected. He's the naysayer--"You can do that if you want, but it's not going to go like you think it will." And it sucks that he's right because many people don't want to be educated.

There's a great deal of not-believing going on. The criteria for so many "disorders" have changed over such a short time span that many people believe that these are just made up. Schools are demanding that children who are disruptive in class might need medicine, which has prompted a lot of people to see this as a problem with what schools expect from children rather than a problem with the children--and I think there's some truth here, that all young minds need more freedom than they're getting. But that doesn't mean that there's not an underlying issue in some kids that doesn't have anything to do with modern education practices.

An aside: There's a woman on that forum who swears that her dyslexic child could not learn to read with an intensive phonics program created especially for dyslexic children, but that she taught the child to read using pictures of word shapes. She just gets angry if you ask her how the child can differentiate between bag, beg, bog, bug, hag, hog, hug, bay, boy, etc., since they all have the same shape. Or how word shapes help to translate words that the child has never seen before.

The point of the previous paragraph: Some parents are nuts and can't be trusted to give objective evidence about the color of the sky, which further complicates any discussion.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all. (And yes, that one always gives me such an odd mental image! ) I'm trying to see where my own thinking needs to be adjusted in regards to invisible disabilities. I'm also trying to see and understand how my own impairments affect my thinking and how I see things.

And I guess I like doing this from a position of safety. When I bring up something here, y'all might tell me I'm wrong, but I doubt that I'll be personally attacked. The same can be said when I talk to my family about autism or ADHD--and we're not above poking fun at each other's quirks!

But I'm not sure I feel safe enough there to explore anything more serious than which math curricula is best--and I've even seen some of those posts get ugly.

 

[RosaViolet]

I think you are right, this forum is very protective and supportive, so it is safe to explore some non finished ideas that make us vulnerable. We don't have to present something quite as shiny and tefloned. I hope.

And to talk about autism maybe a little more than the NT would have attention span for..

 

[Clueless in Canada]

[QUOTE
OTOH, the last time I posted on that forum, I ended up arguing with one guy there who posted the most emotional statements to support his points, and I started naming his logical fallacies in each post he made. So sometimes, I'm an ass when I argue.
[/QUOTE]

Wait.....pointing out logical fallacies is being an ass?

 

[Anarkitty]

Wait.....pointing out logical fallacies is being an ass?

Apparently. Or maybe I crossed that line when I told him that I could recommend a good logic program. I was annoyed by that point.

I have found, though, that most people who would prefer to argue based on emotional appeals really get irritated when anyone brings logic into the discussion. And I hate watching people fall for that crap. There's a time and a place for arguing that an action is the compassionate answer, but if it's not also based on sound reasoning, then what's the point?

 

[MeghanWithAnH]

A few years ago I'd also have said I'd never had any problems from being autistic, although I wouldn't have generalized it to everyone else like that lady did. However, that was before someone pointed out how much extra work I was doing to 'not have any problems' and before I realized that many things I had considered to be entirely the result of my own laziness, disorganization (caused by laziness), pickiness or similar problems were actually because those things happen to be really hard for people with my neurology. On top of that, there are people with a lot more challenges than I have. Denying someone a diagnosis means leaving them to figure out the whole neurotypical world on their own and then blaming them when it doesn't go very well. Just because this lady thinks she's done just fine on her own doesn't mean everyone else should have to.

As far as people learning, I'm more hopeful about that than I used to be. Less than a year ago I overheard an infuriating conversation in which one of my classmates was horribly offended that her cousin was being evaluated for autism, stating that 'she has some problems, but she doesn't have a disability' and complaining about how that girl didn't meet a whole list of autistic stereotypes. The whole group of people around her sympathized and expressed full agreement with this woman's offense. These are people going into a field that works heavily with people with disabilities. Now, after a concentrated effort from our professors, opportunities to meet and work with or observe clients who don't fit their stereotypical views of autism, watching videos from autistic self-advocates, and talking to me about my own experiences, they've dramatically changed their views. Unfortunately, most people don't get that level of exposure, or only get it from very negative sources. I celebrate everyone who works to give them more of that positive exposure, but also sympathize with people who just don't feel up to fighting that battle, especially in a place where the opposition is strongly entrenched.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Some parents are nuts and can't be trusted to give objective evidence about the color of the sky

Raleigh scattering

I am happy to trust anyone to tell me the sky color.
There's an easy check to make to detect lies .

Unless they tell me it turns red when it's okta 8...

 

[Ylva]

One woman said that she thinks she's probably autistic, but she's never had any trouble from it, so why do all of these children need to be diagnosed?

The logic is weak with this one.

Which is not definite proof, but if she is she's breaking stereotypes.

I guess I just never had very good experiences with them. Parents are so judgmental, especially NT parents.

Becoming a parent apparently turns them into jerks. They cheerfully talk about murdering anyone who hurts their kid's feelings in any way. And they're usually awful kids, too. Psychopaths.