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Small talk

It is kind of like asking someone if they like your cooking and they say, "yes" but really they can't stand it. Maybe there is a reason for this. Maybe it helps to say something less truthful so the other person doesn't feel damaged by the whole truth. The question is how do strike a balance?

That's not small talk, you're talking about honesty. Me personally, I'll always choose to be honest if asked a question like that, but I'll be somewhat delicate in how I say it. I don't like lieing to comfort others.

Maybe nt's are nervous or they just want to be doing something because they might be uncomfortable with silence

Partly yes, but also it's social etiquette and helps reinforce that you're social. There isn't always that compulsion though and for me personally I only do this if I see a decent opportunity.

What you describe does not really seem to be 'small talk' per se.
In your opinion what he saying is of no importance.
For him, it is what he has been experiencing
in his work day. He may find it amusing or
frustrating or have any variety of reactions.

Small talk.....is social lubricant. It shows the intention to be
amicable, to get along. Not unlike dog butt sniffing/checking
out their message boards.

I agree, but why oh why did you have to bring up dog butt sniffing, ewww
:mask:. I don't even like dogs really either.

Small talk is things like ellevator conversation and simple meaningless conversation to appear polite, sociable and to pass the time. Small talk is things like;
A "This weather huh, crazy?".
B "Yer too right, its ruined my day thus far, I had plans".
 
What you describe does not really seem to be 'small talk' per se.
In your opinion what he saying is of no importance.
For him, it is what he has been experiencing
in his work day. He may find it amusing or
frustrating or have any variety of reactions.

Small talk.....is social lubricant. It shows the intention to be
amicable, to get along. Not unlike dog butt sniffing/checking
out their message boards.

Example:
William: Morning, Paul.
Paul: Oh, morning, William, how are you?
William: Fine, thanks. Have a good weekend?
Paul: Yes, thanks. Catch you later.
William: OK, see you.
The content of what your boyfriend says is probably not a recap of
conversations such as the one above.

Are you, in fact, saying that you think he is talking about his work
day in an effort to display an intent to get along with you? That he
uses the report from work in order to show he is harmless?

You might want to study what the theme of his daily job report is.
Even Little Golden Books that are only the alphabet or counting
have an underlying meaning. We did that for school, now & then---
outlined the basic meaning of simple books.

An alphabet book, for instance, shows that there is order to
language. A book that says things like "4 butterflies" indicates
there is way to quantify things in the world, that a person isn't
helpless to know what is going on.

Or maybe you are bored with your boyfriend and don't care what
goes on in his life or how he thinks/feels about it. In which case,
disregard the above.
I'm not bored with my boyfriend. It's the usual small talk when he comes home from work. I ask, "How was your day?" And then he'll give me a report of what he did, what his boss did, what happened with a customer, and then complains about the bumper to bumper traffic. I care about my boyfriend. It's just my mind can't accept a whole bunch of information all at once. I need it in bits.
 
I have to agree with Tree in Catlover's case. He is making an attempt to engage in a form of intimacy, which is different from small talk largely due to the inclusion of personal details. He is sharing this with you in an honest effort to engage you in his life. My wife does this same thing.
My boyfriend is not intimate. It's small talk about coworkers & traffic.
 
My boyfriend is not intimate. It's small talk about coworkers & traffic.

The content of what you call the 'small talk' is
not the point. The idea is that using small talk
facilitates social relationships. It is the method
which is intended to demonstrate a wish for
getting along, not the topic.
 
Small talk is really pointless and energy-draining to me. When I participate in it, I have to make a conscious effort to remember the script, to say and do everything considered normal, and hope it will be over soon. I've read a lot of comments by people (likely NTs) elsewhere on the Internet saying small talk is an art form that leads to big talk, but I've rarely found that to be the case. Because of my age (or should I say perceived age, as I look young), most NTs ask about school, but when I say I'm not in school right now, they don't seem to know what else to say, and they move on.

Sometimes they ask about my hobbies, and the first one I talk about is video editing and my YouTube channel, and that sometimes leads to an interesting conversation, but no subsequent friendship or anything. Just a one-time thing for entertainment.

What is even worse than NT's following a script is forcing Aspies to wear emotional masks in response. It begins to resemble a Mardi Gras of emotional hypocrisy. While the NTs seem to have no problem following their script, we Aspies find our souls leaking out of our minds when trying to reconcile our emotions with our facial expressions in a deceitful way. This process may energize the average NT but it is a bleeding circuit for us.

A few weeks ago a customer at work asked me how I was, and I said fine (which I WAS), but because I wasn't smiling, she told me I wasn't fine and that I needed to smile. She made a huge deal out of it and kept harassing me until she finally left. I posted about this in an Aspie group I'm a part of on Facebook and one NT mom of an autistic boy (whom I feel very sorry for after reading her comment) said, "You can't just pretend and smile? You shouldn't force everyone to conform to you," and then a big comment of BS after that. Then when I replied, disagreeing with her, she said, "If you can't handle replies, don't post it." I blocked her then. Everyone else who replied was an Aspie and disagreed with her too.

But it was SHE who was trying to force ME to conform to her and her fellow NTs. It's my face - my body - and no random stranger can tell me what to do with it, even if it makes them uncomfortable. Most customers are content with a reply of "Fine." That one lady was abnormal about it.

She mentioned she works with Alzheimer's patients... I feel sorry for all of them. I wonder what she puts them through. (Oh yeah and she also told me I should smile because I'm not working with them, unlike poor her, boo-hoo.)
 
A few weeks ago a customer at work asked me how I was, and I said fine (which I WAS), but because I wasn't smiling, she told me I wasn't fine and that I needed to smile. She made a huge deal out of it and kept harassing me until she finally left. I posted about this in an Aspie group I'm a part of on Facebook and one NT mom of an autistic boy (whom I feel very sorry for after reading her comment) said, "You can't just pretend and smile? You shouldn't force everyone to conform to you," and then a big comment of BS after that. Then when I replied, disagreeing with her, she said, "If you can't handle replies, don't post it." I blocked her then. Everyone else who replied was an Aspie and disagreed with her too.

I can't think of how many times NTs have insisted I smile and what was wrong. Nothing was wrong. I just don't automatically smile. Even when I'm socially masking my autism smiling just doesn't come easy for me. It gets old when people insist I smile for no particular reason. It's just alien to me. NTs being NT...not realizing there are others who simply do not think or behave quite the same. <sigh>
 
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I am utterly confused now. I really have no idea, then, of what purposes talk has. Don't ask me to categorise talk either! And please try to not educate me because I am not in a receptive mood to understanding. :D

All I know is that if I just be me and not talk, people get uncomfortable and avoid being with me. If I talk about stuff I am interested in, people feign polite interest and avoid me. If I do this small talk stuff, people snicker at me and engage me to provide entertainment later. All too hard.
 
Small talk was a living torture for me! I mean, it happenned in many places and in different aspects. Waiting for class to start, at the supermarket, waiting at the bank, etc.
Once I was invited to a "friends night out" and we were 8 people, it was a big task to gather courage to say yes and eventually go, never felt so much anxiety before, it felt like going for a job interview! I decided to go because I though, "Hey, we have to start with something! Otherwise we might have to lie to the doctor, and we don't want that" (I was under therapy at the time and doctor told me to try to make at least one gathering with close people or people I fairly knew).

I can divide the event in 3 parts: the pre-dinner, the huge talking and the awkward goodbye. All of this full of small talk. I remembered that people in this situations didn't talk about school or work, so I avoided those topics, which let me with almost nothing to say to be honest. I listened in the pre-dinner only to answer a "yes" or "no" or even "I guess so". The huge talk was the worst, small talk in its essence. I just couldn't think of nothing to say, at all. I was so nervous of someone asking me to talk about something that I began to sweat at some point. I mean, how do you go from there? How do you progress or jump in the small talk? I just remember thinking "Is this what people do? Do they say what they're thinking? Out loud?" Because nothing popped in my mind.

Small talk is so natural for nt's, so I learned some tips to make it happen, I use them now and they work at 90-95% of time.
-Weather only if its evident, like its raining or very hot.
-Work only if you're doing something related to it
-Study or school in general if you're asked about it or see anything related to it
-Check the surroundings, anything that seems particular or odd, create an idea and expand it with a question to the other person, like asking for their opinion.

Talking is a 2 way thing, you don't hold all the weight of it. Listen, pay attention and answer calmly. Take your time and relax. Not easy, I'm not gonna lie. But it can happen.

Still, small talk with women is something I'm far from understanding. I just get too nervous about it, can't concentrate and usually get very nervous :p Anyone else?
 
The small talk social code or whatever it is has always bothered me. I've tried but I just can't play that game anymore, if someone asks how I am... I sort of stutter or hesitate and just mention a feeling like stress or something to end the conversation as early as possible. It makes me feel so uncomfortable partly because I want to express how I feel but I can't articulate it very well verbally, and partly because I feel like they just intentionally asked me to lie for no real reason. Small talk makes the social anxiety go into overdrive.
The 'I'll call you later' thing has got me in trouble too, several times I have told someone that and they said okay and we would part ways, but then they would act weird and surprised (offended once) when I actually called them. I never could figure out why. I dislike most social constructs, to be honest but small talk is particularly irritating. I can't stand people being less than genuine or plain dishonest it just upsets me so much.
 
Small talk for social interaction to me is much the same as learning a language that is not your native tongue. You might not get it right the first few times,but over time,you will improve on it as you learn how it all works. No one really wants to know exactly how you feel at any given time in a social situation,it just fills in the gaps when another party is wanting a trial interaction. Intimate conversations are not a part of small talk,but small talk is the warm up for them if it is to progress to another level.
A way of avoiding it is to ignore it completely and be thought of as rude. There is a necessary amount of trial and error involved learning the nuances of it all. I have always been a salesman of sorts,selling me as my best product. No one wants to buy a bland and nothing package,so you need to spice up the product and add some color sometimes with meaningless words to fill in the gaps. For instance,if you are selling a car,just saying it is blue with four tires won't take the interest level very far. If you spout off the zero to sixty times,the fuel mileage,the power windows,the type of transmission,a leather interior and the special trim package,the sale might go a bit better. That is a prime example of useless small talk with a purpose.

I want to vomit every time I see a post about how tiring it is to wear the dreaded mask. Get a grip,all humans have to don a mask,not just people on the autism rollercoaster ride.Small talk is a part of the mask that they wear that hides their insecurities and makes life a bit less challenging. It is also a warmup to see if the conversation needs to be continued. Do any of you really care what a simple minded individual says about you to another when you walk away? You know who you are,and that is all that matters in the bigger scheme of things. If what you have to say is important enough to the person you are speaking to,they will listen. If they aren't interested in what you have to say,does it really matter what happens next?
 
My trick is to try to make the other talk about themself or something they like, even if I'm absolutely not interested in the topic. They tend to talk much more freely and need that much less interaction or prompting from me.
 
An enormous percentage of the people I know seem simply to love to talk, and they seem to do so effortlessly on and on, on the most trivial topics. I'm an old guy and confess to being completely baffled by it. It's just something they do. It's amazing the amount of verbiage that's produced daily that means literally nothing. I suppose I've always been known as a good listener, which many friends do appreciate. I don't like to talk, unless I have a serious comment to make. My wife carries the chatter aspect for me, which is nice. I'm just there to observe.
 
I firmly believe that not one single thing in the entire universe simply serves no purpose, not even small talk. It seems apparent to me that small talk as a social construct serves to perpetuate a state of societal homeostasis which could be succinctly described as a mindset of "I'm okay, and you're okay too."

The purpose of this state of homeostasis is to provide a sense of order as well as a lack of danger. It's no mistake that the typical neurotypical will elicit an emotional response coming from somewhere on the fear-spectrum of feelings when you answer their "HI! How are you doing?" by telling them you're not okay and why. Fear reactions come straight from the stimulation of the amygdala - meaning their automatic, involuntary response to this breach of social protocol (not answering in the positive) is a primal, hard-wired response to the threat made against the state of societal homeostasis from which the axioms of belief that constitute the totality of their perceptions of reality are derived.

To further explain, every individual has a slightly different perception of reality. Our own personal iteration of reality is the sum total of our axioms of belief, aka world views, which are basically beliefs that seem to be so apparently and unarguably true that we accept them as "laws of the universe", so to speak, and are the tools our brains use to make sense of the abstract. The reason small talk seems so alien, pointless, and difficult for many of us is the same reason that we, as individual members of the autism community, are so diverse from even one another. It's all about how those world views form.

NTs with their fancy mirror neurons grew up placing all their value in mimicking their peers and adults with the primary impetus being the attainment of a sense of belonging, which a child may value above all other needs, including physical safety (see: children who cling to abusive parents). Their emotional needs being met by successful participation in society caused them to adopt socially-centric world views and to subsequently practice all the rituals that reinforce and validate them, such as small talk.

On the other hand, I don't think I've yet heard of an Aspie with a childhood that was anything less than traumatic, almost always with themes of social rejection and usually inhuman torment as a result of our attempts to gain the very same sense of belonging. Lacking the coveted ability to join that wonderful social club, we often formed our world views based on what life experience gave our brains to make sense of. Whatever the product turned out to be, our world views tend to be empirical (based in reality, through observation) in nature, sharply contrasting that of the NT's.

Thus, we have our disconnect when it comes to small talk. NT's and us simply worship different gods, so to speak. The best thing to do is accept things as they are and work with them. Plenty of people on this thread have already said what needs no echoing, but I'll add that while you should be proud of who you are, never be scared, and never back down, the NTs really have us beat if in no other way but sheer numbers. I'm not singling anyone out in any part of this post, and this isn't even close to fair, not by a longshot, but the status quo dictates that we have the choice to either give up and go live on The Island of Broken Toys or learn how to play the game and accept it as a positive thing.

OH, but all that aside, I should mention there is actually a book out there that's pretty much a how-to manual on how to effectively communicate with NTs. It's called Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne. It's not some cheesy self-help book targeted to an Aspie audience, rather it's a unique and different perspective on human interaction. It's the best $8 you'll ever spend, it's a fairly short read, and when I read it I had one of those "Ohhhhhh..." moments about every three pages. It cut years of painful trial-and-error out of my learning process.

Sorry for the brain dump. I'm just not one for short quips or explanations of a complex phenomenon that could fit in a twitter post.
 
I firmly believe that not one single thing in the entire universe simply serves no purpose, not even small talk. It seems apparent to me that small talk as a social construct serves to perpetuate a state of societal homeostasis which could be succinctly described as a mindset of "I'm okay, and you're okay too."

The purpose of this state of homeostasis is to provide a sense of order as well as a lack of danger. It's no mistake that the typical neurotypical will elicit an emotional response coming from somewhere on the fear-spectrum of feelings when you answer their "HI! How are you doing?" by telling them you're not okay and why. Fear reactions come straight from the stimulation of the amygdala - meaning their automatic, involuntary response to this breach of social protocol (not answering in the positive) is a primal, hard-wired response to the threat made against the state of societal homeostasis from which the axioms of belief that constitute the totality of their perceptions of reality are derived.

To further explain, every individual has a slightly different perception of reality. Our own personal iteration of reality is the sum total of our axioms of belief, aka world views, which are basically beliefs that seem to be so apparently and unarguably true that we accept them as "laws of the universe", so to speak, and are the tools our brains use to make sense of the abstract. The reason small talk seems so alien, pointless, and difficult for many of us is the same reason that we, as individual members of the autism community, are so diverse from even one another. It's all about how those world views form.

NTs with their fancy mirror neurons grew up placing all their value in mimicking their peers and adults with the primary impetus being the attainment of a sense of belonging, which a child may value above all other needs, including physical safety (see: children who cling to abusive parents). Their emotional needs being met by successful participation in society caused them to adopt socially-centric world views and to subsequently practice all the rituals that reinforce and validate them, such as small talk.

On the other hand, I don't think I've yet heard of an Aspie with a childhood that was anything less than traumatic, almost always with themes of social rejection and usually inhuman torment as a result of our attempts to gain the very same sense of belonging. Lacking the coveted ability to join that wonderful social club, we often formed our world views based on what life experience gave our brains to make sense of. Whatever the product turned out to be, our world views tend to be empirical (based in reality, through observation) in nature, sharply contrasting that of the NT's.

Thus, we have our disconnect when it comes to small talk. NT's and us simply worship different gods, so to speak. The best thing to do is accept things as they are and work with them. Plenty of people on this thread have already said what needs no echoing, but I'll add that while you should be proud of who you are, never be scared, and never back down, the NTs really have us beat if in no other way but sheer numbers. I'm not singling anyone out in any part of this post, and this isn't even close to fair, not by a longshot, but the status quo dictates that we have the choice to either give up and go live on The Island of Broken Toys or learn how to play the game and accept it as a positive thing.

OH, but all that aside, I should mention there is actually a book out there that's pretty much a how-to manual on how to effectively communicate with NTs. It's called Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne. It's not some cheesy self-help book targeted to an Aspie audience, rather it's a unique and different perspective on human interaction. It's the best $8 you'll ever spend, it's a fairly short read, and when I read it I had one of those "Ohhhhhh..." moments about every three pages. It cut years of painful trial-and-error out of my learning process.

Sorry for the brain dump. I'm just not one for short quips or explanations of a complex phenomenon that could fit in a twitter post.
Thank you for choosing words that better cover what the topic is about. That is not my forte ;)
I love the Island of Broken Toys reference.
 
Nice to see people are still reading Eric Berne.
Transactional analysis explained a lot to me.
Still does.
 
Small talk feels unnecessary to me and it is hard for me to do. I always like to go to meaningful things in conversation which these days because my focus is on me, i talk about myself. I don´t think people like that. I don´t know what they want in answer and when i start to think about that, the situation sometimes go away, i need more time to think about my answers. Three people is a crowd to me, i like to talk to one person at a time. If there is three people i don´t always know when its my turn to talk. In larger groups i totally shutdown and don´t say anything.
 
[QUOTE="
I've come to the conclusion that small talk is like a code, and that the majority of it isn't literal. I'm gradually trying to learn what different parts of small talk mean, so, I'd describe 'I'll call you later' as an elaborate way of saying 'goodbye', the same way that 'how are you' is an elaborate way of saying 'hello', because almost 100% of the time, if someone says 'how are you', they don't actually want you to tell them how you are. It's like trying to learn another language :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I hate it when people say "how are you,"then continue walking in the opposite direction. Drives me nuts.
 
I firmly believe that not one single thing in the entire universe simply serves no purpose, not even small talk. It seems apparent to me that small talk as a social construct serves to perpetuate a state of societal homeostasis which could be succinctly described as a mindset of "I'm okay, and you're okay too."

The purpose of this state of homeostasis is to provide a sense of order as well as a lack of danger. It's no mistake that the typical neurotypical will elicit an emotional response coming from somewhere on the fear-spectrum of feelings when you answer their "HI! How are you doing?" by telling them you're not okay and why. Fear reactions come straight from the stimulation of the amygdala - meaning their automatic, involuntary response to this breach of social protocol (not answering in the positive) is a primal, hard-wired response to the threat made against the state of societal homeostasis from which the axioms of belief that constitute the totality of their perceptions of reality are derived.

To further explain, every individual has a slightly different perception of reality. Our own personal iteration of reality is the sum total of our axioms of belief, aka world views, which are basically beliefs that seem to be so apparently and unarguably true that we accept them as "laws of the universe", so to speak, and are the tools our brains use to make sense of the abstract. The reason small talk seems so alien, pointless, and difficult for many of us is the same reason that we, as individual members of the autism community, are so diverse from even one another. It's all about how those world views form.

NTs with their fancy mirror neurons grew up placing all their value in mimicking their peers and adults with the primary impetus being the attainment of a sense of belonging, which a child may value above all other needs, including physical safety (see: children who cling to abusive parents). Their emotional needs being met by successful participation in society caused them to adopt socially-centric world views and to subsequently practice all the rituals that reinforce and validate them, such as small talk.

On the other hand, I don't think I've yet heard of an Aspie with a childhood that was anything less than traumatic, almost always with themes of social rejection and usually inhuman torment as a result of our attempts to gain the very same sense of belonging. Lacking the coveted ability to join that wonderful social club, we often formed our world views based on what life experience gave our brains to make sense of. Whatever the product turned out to be, our world views tend to be empirical (based in reality, through observation) in nature, sharply contrasting that of the NT's.

Thus, we have our disconnect when it comes to small talk. NT's and us simply worship different gods, so to speak. The best thing to do is accept things as they are and work with them. Plenty of people on this thread have already said what needs no echoing, but I'll add that while you should be proud of who you are, never be scared, and never back down, the NTs really have us beat if in no other way but sheer numbers. I'm not singling anyone out in any part of this post, and this isn't even close to fair, not by a longshot, but the status quo dictates that we have the choice to either give up and go live on The Island of Broken Toys or learn how to play the game and accept it as a positive thing.

OH, but all that aside, I should mention there is actually a book out there that's pretty much a how-to manual on how to effectively communicate with NTs. It's called Games People Play by Dr. Eric Berne. It's not some cheesy self-help book targeted to an Aspie audience, rather it's a unique and different perspective on human interaction. It's the best $8 you'll ever spend, it's a fairly short read, and when I read it I had one of those "Ohhhhhh..." moments about every three pages. It cut years of painful trial-and-error out of my learning process.

Sorry for the brain dump. I'm just not one for short quips or explanations of a complex phenomenon that could fit in a twitter post.
 

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