Should Aspies be Incarcerated?

[Sportster]

I have seen many interesting threads and articles here about individuals on the spectrum being arrested and/or incarcerated. However, I don’t recall seeing any dialogue here whether or not an Aspie should be incarcerated for a crime.

Consider the following hypothetical situation. An individual that is high functioning (Aspie) breaks into their neighbor’s home and steals the neighbor’s game system. In addition to that, the individual goes through the house and finds cash in the neighbor’s bedroom and takes it.

The neighbor has security cameras throughout the house, so the individual is recorded taking the game system and cash. The police investigate and view the video footage. There are also fingerprints taken that are later matched to the individual. It is disclosed that other neighbors have had problems with the individual, but juvenile records are sealed and are not admissible in court.

The individual goes to trial and is found guilty. The defense attempts to play the Aspie card hoping for leniency, but the prosecution has proven the individual knew what they were doing and was able to establish a pattern.

So, should the Aspie be incarcerated under existing laws or should they be shown special treatment because they’re on the spectrum?

 

[LucyPurrs]

Someone who is high functioning can understand the difference between right and wrong and what's legal and what isn't. I believe those are the legal criteria to determine whether someone is competent to stand trial (Judge will know for sure). So if you believe in incarceration for that sort of crime then yes. But you didn't ask whether or not we believe in and support the concept of incarceration or not.

Well Sportster, you answered your own question before I could, XD.

 

[the_tortoise]

I'd be curious about why the aspie was stealing in the first place (as well as less expensive, less harmful, and more-likely-to-succeed opportunities for rehabilitation) -- that would be where I would look for any reasons for leniency.

If sent to prison, I would hope that provisions be made for their safety upon considering their level of social (and other) disability -- as should be done for anyone in prison, according to their circumstances. (There are many reasons why someone in prison might face a much higher than average risk of being targeted and victimized by other inmates, and it is the justice system's responsibility to protect them.)

If such provisions could not be made, then I would look seriously at alternative sentencing options -- again, I think should be done for anyone facing a prison sentence, according to their circumstances.

The phrase "special treatment" is, in my opinion, entirely inappropriate for situations where reasonable and necessary accomodations or adjustments to standard protocol/procedure are being made for an individual to ensure a situation is fair and equitable.

If someone hopes to be given adjustments or accomodations as a matter of privilege rather than need (or if they are lying about needing them), then receipt of those adjustments/accomodations would actually create a situation of inequity/unfairness and I would be in agreement that it is special treatment.

 

[Voltaic]

it seems like the question should be shifted from, if he will be out in jail, to what accomidations can that autistic indivual can expwect in jail. if i were that person, and i walked into a home and stole money, i can not see mysekf being able to tie in autism as being an excuse fir my actions.

did i do it out of distess?

did i do it because my autism “forced me to?”

if i didnt have autism, would i still do it?

it seems tha answers line up to thst i am guilty.


in jail, i would voach for accomidations. i have a medical history to back uo my claims and demands. jail is about rehabilitation, not trying to tourture others. though, i dont know what i could ask for.

 

[Gracey]

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime

 

[Gritches]

The whole damn thing needs reform, prisons are already where mentally ill people and warehoused until such time that they've taught each other how to be better criminals. Literally, that's all you do in jail; you sit around and plan crimes. Mostly in a hypothetical sense, but still.

No, the failure is on society to teach these individuals how to be a responsible, law-abiding citizen. The failure is on the parents, the failure is on the schools, the failure is on the "correctional" system. In my time among hardened criminals, I can tell you that if those people were taught some life skills they would much less likely to end back up in a place where they're already comfortable and free from the responsibilities that come from living as a free person.

Emphasis needs to be shifted so far in the direction of rehabilitation instead of just throwing people in the trash. Because you know what? Once you punish a person enough, they get used to it. They become accustomed to being punished. It stops having any sort of deterrent effect; in fact, spending most of your adult life in prison is just an understood part of certain subsets of society (talking about gangs).

I think Aspie criminals are an extreme example of this lack of life skills beating them a path to prison, because nobody teaches us life skills; we learn them, usually as a result of pain and trauma, which can further screw someone up. Who here hates humanity for how you've been treated? Don't answer that. But there is such little intervention beyond punishment for socially unacceptable behaviors, criminal or not, that I don't know why it's a mystery to anyone why the US is in such a state right now.

After your 20th arrest, going to jail is like going home. Most of my post has been largely off-target, but to answer the topic question:

Yes, Aspies should be treated differently. We get even less guidance when growing up, what we need is to learn how to live, not be put in time-out for however many months. Luckily, I've actually seen some examples of people with autism getting leniency. Just a few years ago a young adult had actually come very close to carrying out a very deadly "event", you know what kind I mean, and whereas a NT would probably have gotten 10+ years this guy got sent to a secure mental health facility for a few years. Not that a secure mental health facility is that much better as far as rehabilitation goes, but it's something at least.

tl;dr - Yes, Aspies should be given leniency, guidance, and help to become productive citizens.

 

[Starfire]

If the rules were changed in favour of Aspies not going to jail, I could see bent doctors/psychologists/psychiatrists selling a diagnosis. The less scrupulous could make easy money and word would soon get around criminal circles that for a few thousand you could buy a get out of jail card. The knock on result could be the public not taking a diagnosis seriously, as there would always be the suspicion that it was fake or bought. I think many people have little or no respect for us as it is already. How many of us are told 'you look alright to me', 'isn't everyone a little autistic', 'you don't look retarded', 'you need to get over yourself/man up' etc. etc. etc.

I would agree that we should be treated differently for reasons others suggested previously, but logistically and financially the extra cost involved in us being treated differently suggests it's unlikely to happen in day to day crime, even though it has come up recently in high profile hacking cases.

 

[Voltaic]

Who here hates humanity for how you've been treated?

...

After your 20th arrest, going to jail is like going home.

spending nearly a quarter of my school life in hospital, i know how that feels. yhings suck in hospital, hut in lots of ways it is better than being at home. home life feels unstable, and i normaly go back to hospital after i crash and get better. in lots of ways, it does feel like home.

Not that a secure mental health facility is that much better as far as rehabilitation goes, but it's something at least.

the crazy pens at leat make an effort into accomidations, and rehabilitation. at least from my experiance, there is an emphasis on programs (succsesful or not) to try to help out.

i chalk it up to the people. we are nto criminals, most of the time. we treat eachother like human beings, instead of treating, and gettting treated like trash. the nurses do have it in thier intrests to help in anyway they can. that is a step up from security.

 

[the_tortoise]

the crazy pens at leat make an effort into accomidations, and rehabilitation. at least from my experiance, there is an emphasis on programs (succsesful or not) to try to help out

i chalk it up to the people. we are nto criminals, most of the time. we treat eachother like human beings, instead of treating, and gettting treated like trash. the nurses do have it in thier intrests to help in anyway they can. that is a step up from security.

I am very glad there are some psychiatric institutions that aren't 100% terrible places where the staff either abuse or literally and completely ignore all the patients, all the time, unless they have become a danger to themselves or others and cannot be ignored anymore (in which case orderlies are called to the scene to restrain the person and/or inject them full of sedatives and/or lock them up in an isolation room...and then when they are quiet and compliant they can be ignored again).

 

[Chance]

I'm not sure what I think... I simply don't understand doing something that would get me placed in prison, so I cant put myself in that persons shoes respectfully... I do think it would be a living hell and a very dangerous place... I would probably do something to have me in solitary all the time to not have to deal with the monsters I picture in my head.

I looked it up and found this... The article is interesting, but the comments are better than the article itself... Its in NZ, but they seem to have very close social systems and Americans.

Autism in Prisons

 

[Judge]

IMO the only way one can seriously determine whether one's autism is grounds to establish a diminished capacity defense is exclusively on an individual basis. Meaning that being on the spectrum alone is utterly insufficient to establish letting someone off the hook for a crime committed.

Otherwise you could have defendants getting off the hook for precedents like former SF Supervisor Dan White's "Twinkie Defense". As if anyone and everyone who eats junk food could systematically have their sentence reduced even if they murdered a prominent mayor. Nope, there has to be more to it. Much more.

If autism itself became a routine defense strategy, it would become astronomically more stigmatized than it already is. We'd become serial killers and mass murderers in the eyes of the public for just being on the spectrum, even if we never harmed a soul or broke any law. And media would lynch us even more than they do presently.

Let anyone on the spectrum who is indicted for anything be judged individually. And never by their autism alone. After all, for some it might constitute a disability. For others, not at all. Just neurodiversity.

 

[pjcnet]

If an autistic person knew they were committing a crime and had a choice about doing it that they consciously made then yes they should be sentenced the same, but due to the fact that an autistic person might not survive in normal prison population a different facility should be considered. If the autistic person truly didn't know they were committing a crime for whatever reason, then they should be treated leniently. For instance an autistic person might have been told that something was perfectly legal by people asking them to help with something, then the autistic person may have been shocked and surprised to be arrested later when they discovered that they'd actually committed a criminal offence. Sometimes other people can take advantage of an autistic person's goodness and naivety, often wanting to please, autistic people definitely shouldn't be punished for that, in fact they can even be victims of abuse.

In the example given by the OP, if the person was on the higher functioning end of the autistic spectrum they would definitely know that something as clear cut as stealing was committing a crime, so unless they were forced into doing it by a 3rd party, E.g. they were threatened, they should be sentenced the same. If the autistic person was on the lower functioning end of the autistic spectrum then it's very possible they didn't understand that they were committing a crime or could even have been put up to it by a 3rd party without them understanding, in this situation the autistic person was a victim of abuse and shouldn't be punished, instead they should look into arresting the abuser and sentence them. My brothers for instance have absolutely no concept of the value of money or most other value and if someone told them that it was the right thing to do to steal something they could be easily convinced to do it, they may not even understand that they were stealing. In this case however it sounds like the person is on the higher functioning end of the spectrum since it was stated, "the prosecution has proven the individual knew what they were doing and was able to establish a pattern", something that would be extremely unlikely with either of my brothers.

 

[SusanLR]

I believe in the system judging each case individually.
Aspies would probably not stand being in jail.
It would be of no benefit to the lower functioning on the
spectrum.
A mental institutional facility may not be good, but, it might be better than a jail for the hardened criminals.
Proving they knew right from wrong and able to understand their actions should be the deciding point.

Just being on the spectrum should not be a deciding factor.
If the person needs help due to psychological reasons,
that should be taken into consideration definitely.

Regarding psych facilities:

I am very glad there are some psychiatric institutions that aren't 100% terrible places where the staff either abuse or literally and completely ignore all the patients, all the time, unless they have become a danger to themselves or others and cannot be ignored anymore (in which case orderlies are called to the scene to restrain the person and/or inject them full of sedatives and/or lock them up in an isolation room...and then when they are quiet and compliant they can be ignored again).

I'm not aware of institutions that aren't 100% terrible places except for the ones you would need a lot of money/self pay.
Might get one of those county-club type places if you are a celebrity?
Other than these two ways, what are the options?
I am curious.
I am curious.

 

[Southern Discomfort]

Hmm, law isn't as simple as yes or no, is it though? It's done by an individual case. I have mixed feelings here and I don't think I can really come to any sort of conclusion.

 

[Bella Pines]

I say treated like anyone else. Aspergers makes things difficult but behind the symptoms is the ability to choose and decide right from wrong. I've seen it used as an excuse, in fact I've used it as an excuse, but ultimately if I break the law then it is my choice to do so.

 

[Beguiling Orbit]

I can't imagine that prison would be much different from what I experienced during infantry basic training. It might even be easier. I'm not extraordinary, so I'm sure that most on the spectrum could deal with it too. I suppose that puts me in line with @Gracey's statement:

If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime

 

[Progster]

There's no yes or no answer here, as there are so many variables. A decision would have to be made on each case as to whether guilt can be proven, whether the person has mental health needs or sensory issues die to their condition, and what specific needs that person has. An experienced, qualified psychiatrist would need to examine the person and submit a report to the court.

 

[Mr Allen]

If they do the crime, they should do the time, whether they're Aspie, NT or an Elephant.

Being on the spectrum should NOT become a "Get out of Jail free" card, like I said, for ANYBODY, if you do the crime, you should do the time IMHO.

Obviously there are some cases where Jail time would do more harm than good, but those are isolated.

Also, if they sent an Aspie to an NT Prison, that person may end up getting bullied by their NT Peers, it's an unavoidable factual fact of life.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

There's no yes or no answer here, as there are so many variables. A decision would have to be made on each case as to whether guilt can be proven, whether the person has mental health needs or sensory issues die to their condition, and what specific needs that person has. An experienced, qualified psychiatrist would need to examine the person and submit a report to the court.

Progster : Incarcerate.
Reason : Music.

Scientists have discovered it is no longer subjective, but actionable.

 

[Crossbreed]

Do they place blind or deaf convicts in gen-pop? What about people who require CPAPs to sleep?