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Shock from Emigration

Gekko2508

Active Member
[Takes a deep breath]

Alright, this is going to be tough for me. It has nothing to do with the community, but I don't like sharing my weaknesses with people I don't know. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for sticking with me through this.

At the age of five, I was diagnosed with PDD-NOS. My parents were extremely supportive and taught me the subtleties of humour, not to push people off slides for my own amusement, and to thank the baker for giving me a free cookie whenever we bought our bread there.
They also enrolled me in a course to teach me basic social skills sometime around the age of ten. There I learned to hide certain behaviours, replace habits, etc, etc. I learned through the course, after having gone through it, that I was blessed with the more social strain of PDD-NOS. I'm intrigued in others, in copying behaviour, pleasing others, and basically becoming "A Proper Human". I didn't want to be labelled autistic. I have since been able to disguise my autism to seem non-existant to those that don't know me too well.

That does not mean I do not struggle with myself. Oh no.

I suffer from seemingly silly problems such as fears for arriving late, butterflies and detector gates, to having more serious issues. I bottle my emotions up, because I do not understand them, large crowds of people make me anxious, making phone calls is so much more than a chore, and I have a genuinely crippling form of perfectionism. I also have more positive, neutral, and negative traits from PDD that are irrelevant to this case in particular. I am now finding it's all piling up.
You see, when I was 15 (that's seven - eight years ago, now) my father fulfilled his nigh-lifelong dream of landing a job in New Zealand. He was going to take the whole direct family with him to share in his dream. The biggest issue here is that we had to move from almost literally the other side of the world to make this happen. We moved from The Netherlands; or Holland. The barriers to cross were not only geological, however, but also cultural and linguistical. I was aware of this, which led me to my most pressing problem:

Ever since I heard the news that we were going to move to New Zealand, I have felt numb.

The exact state of mind is hard to describe, but I'll try my best. I vividly remember being able to reason, think, affect flows of thought, improve and learn. I felt like I was me. Now I feel like I view my life as if watching Gekko perform an act in a series on TV. I can have my thoughts about what Gekko is doing on set, but I cannot affect Gekko parading around (much). I have turned from the hero of my own story, to being a non-player character. As if my vessel/body is controlled by another entity, and I'm just along for the ride in the back of the brain.

I am still struggling with this shock after seven years. I have gotten married, but am unemployed, unable to find work, and not enjoying my life as much as I would want to.
I now live in Sweden, and am a "ghost" to society. The story of becoming this is also a long one, but it boils down to being unable to get any bureaucratic or governmential help. And as such, I am unable to get professional mental help. I have no friends here except my husband, due to my lack of confidence in speaking Swedish, my husband not being a people-person, and the rest of Sweden sharing that sentiment.
I cannot stick to hobbies, videogames, learning, strict schedules or even keeping a diary since I forget or get bored. I sleep too much if I get the chance (bless alarm functions, am I right?), I forget a lot and am generally unhappy. Which spirals me into guilt for feeling unhappy while being with my soulmate and keeping said unhappiness to myself.

I feel myself sink further and further away into self-loathing, isolation, and getting more resistant to doing things. I would like to make sure I can live, not barely survive. I would like to enjoy life, feel, and think proper thoughts again, however I feel that I'm unable to make changes to my mind due to my crippling perfection and inability to tinker on my mindset.

Any anecdotes, stories and articles are welcome! I embrace knowledge of all sorts, so even your opinion is greatly appreciated.
Most of all, I'd like to thank you again for reading this. Even if you don't reply immediately, that's fine! I'm probably going to stay off the forum for a couple of days, too, writing this has been terrifying. Relieving, but terrifying.
May you have an enjoyable day!
 
Yea The Netherlands is awesome. No CGT!

What are you doing in Sweden? It's like the worst place on earth to be in short of Mogadishu. And Mogadishu has better weather. And pirates!

Since I am also autistic as ****, I went through a similar phase. Then I lived abroad for a while. That fixed me right up. ATM I think I can be super happy everywhere. Except Sweden. Since even I can't be happy in Sweden, how can you be?!

So just go somewhere with actual people, instead of nothing but satanic cult members. You are only 23 so you have quite some time to learn normal social skills. It just takes some effort for a few years.

All that aside, though. I find it extremely strange that your husband is completely ignoring your situation. I'm autistic as heck and even I would notice if I had a wife that was lonely and unhappy. Is he Swedish? That would explain a lot. He's probably walking around thinking one string of thoughts over and over again "Everyone here is happy! This is the Swedish dream! This is the perfect country! Because everyone is happy! Anyone who is not happy does not exist and must be eliminated to restore balance to the universe!". Something like that anyway.
 
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What are you doing in Sweden?
My husband and I had been dating online for about eight years before we decided we wanted to be together. I couldn't get him to New Zealand because we lack the requirements that Immigration there has for genuine relationships. I decided to move in with him in Sweden to gather up evidence so New Zealand could see we have a genuine relationship so I could take him to a proper country. That plan backfired a little... 20/20 hindsight and all that.
 
Yup. Once you are together you forfeit all rights to "Reunification". New Zealand is no Sweden, they have standards and won't take everyone. Can't you move to the Netherlands? In the Netherlands you could build up net worth and eventually move back to New Zealand. I think you need like a 3mil in kiwi dollars. At least that's what I found when I was looking for possible countries I could live in. Netherlands is probably also much better for you to live in.
 
Is it really that bad being living with ASD in Sweden @AloneNotLonely ? I thought there were the same rights to treatment in the psychiatric as we have in Norway.

I heard from a lot of other NT people who lived outside of the Nordics that they went through this depression of moving back. I’m going through the same more or less. Living like a puppet ever since I moved back.

I agree with AloneNotLonely about moving to Netherlands. It would be easier for him to even work down there, and it might get easier for you too. Perhaps you should look in to that option.
 
Welcome to Autism Forums! This is a great place for you to be- you can get lots of support , acceptance, information and feedback here. Members are great and kind to one another. So don't be afraid to post!!!
 
That is a different take on the mental landscape. One I have not quite heard before. I do have to think a bit. But you are way too young and smart to get despondent. There are many paths past obstacles and you have passed many obstacles. Trust in yourself to overcome the ones facing you now. Being on the Spectrum can be a little like having the Force in Star Wars. There are extra areas and power to tap into that most NTs do not have. Others may and will fail you but never lose faith in yourself to succeed eventually.
 
I know that I have a strong attachment to places, unlike my less evident social relating or attachments. I picture you being shocked perhaps traumatically at being taken from your known places and so far away. Then this maybe wasn't understood as perhaps this is a much stronger effect for some on the spectrum? So you covered it over as best you could. The numbness could be caused by shock.

The course you were on aged 10 was no doubt well-intentioned but seems to have encouraged you to override expressing yourself in favour of being acceptable to others in a neurotypical way, however you are not neurotypical so this won't always suit you. Children's learning is hampered when they get over anxious about getting things right, we learn from mistakes and faster if we make lots!

Especially for people who think a lot, mistakes are grist for the thought processes and we think up ways forward based on them. It sounds like you have seriously lost some confidence from different causes and need to feel better about yourself however you can achieve that? I think you are saying it's hard to afford therapy? So maybe think about sources of support, what can you access to help you? You are here, that's a great start!

Also, although you are still feeling somehow outside yourself, you do come over as highly original and interesting, your shield with runes is so fascinating, I haven't seen such a complex and carefully planned and thought out Avatar before , wow! Maybe you have to start revising your ideas of yourself, you seem to me to be an interesting original creative adult.
 
Can't you move to the Netherlands?
I agree with AloneNotLonely about moving to Netherlands.
As much as I'd love to do so, both me and my husband are living off an income that's well below the poverty line right now. We can barely afford to eat every month, let alone seriously work on moving to a country such as the Netherlands. Living costs there are also far too much for us to afford in any reasonable manner. Let alone housing costs, haha!

The short answer here is that my parents are willing to finance solely our moving costs (which will be somewhere up to 10 - 15,000 NZD) as an interest-free loan. Aside from that, they simply cannot afford financing us to make a mediary stop in the Netherlands, too.

I’m going through the same more or less. Living like a puppet ever since I moved back.
How are you handling the feeling? Has it been a long time since you've started feeling that way? Has there been any change?

I went through a similar phase
You also felt numbness? How did you get over it? Was it just the country that made it all work out for you?
 
Well it was easier to hang out with people outside of my country since they were not all about sex and getting drunk. I think for half my teens and twenties I didn't feel much. Just bleah I guess. I had no purpose and was stuck in life, going nowhere. I started moving forward and living abroad was one of those steps, and now the only regret I have was not starting sooner. Although I suppose once happy you are happy... so regretting not starting sooner is kind of... useless.

Is it really that bad being living with ASD in Sweden @AloneNotLonely ? I thought there were the same rights to treatment in the psychiatric as we have in Norway.

Never lived in Sweden. I'm sure Gekko can actually comment on that better than I can, I was not speaking about AS problems. Swedes are very antisocial, so that's probably the biggest factor rather than the support system. Sweden is just a miserable place in general. They have no clue how to budget so everything is falling apart (Including social/healthcare). Norway afaik is better at budgeting AND they are extremely wealthy due to oil. Norway is leaps and bounds above the rest of Europe and much of the world.

Sweden just doesn't have have the same place in the world as it did 10-20 years ago. Stuff just changes so fast that people can't keep up.
 
That's tough luck if you're stuck in Sweden. I don't know how it is with the visas and all for you and it would be advisable to move anywhere at all. I sincerely hope things get better for you.

How are you handling the feeling? Has it been a long time since you've started feeling that way? Has there been any change?
I was born in Norway but never felt that I fit in. When I moved away from here I felt the feeling of an active role in my own life, instead of remaining a spectator. Since I moved back it's back to the same. Unfortunately my anxiety is so bad that I able to start moving towards any solution at all. But I have realised that I have to stop resisting and just follow on with accepting how things are for now. You don't always have to like reality, sometimes you just need to accept it and figure out how to change it.

I believe the Nordics are an empty superficial society that just goes around. I believe social acceptance here is harder and there are too many unspoken rules and hidden social codes that need to be cracked. I often find myself in creating an illusion just so that I don't feel outcasted, even with my family. Life further down in Europe is much more accepting, but tougher financially. I personally would prefer the financial challenges than the social.

Never lived in Sweden. I'm sure Gekko can actually comment on that better than I can, I was not speaking about AS problems. Swedes are very antisocial, so that's probably the biggest factor rather than the support system. Sweden is just a miserable place in general. They have no clue how to budget so everything is falling apart (Including social/healthcare). Norway afaik is better at budgeting AND they are extremely wealthy due to oil. Norway is leaps and bounds above the rest of Europe and much of the world.

Sweden just doesn't have have the same place in the world as it did 10-20 years ago. Stuff just changes so fast that people can't keep up.

I'm sorry I had the impression that you were from Sweden. I do agree that most of their social structure is tearing down. There are plenty of comments I have in regards to that but I will avoid the political talk in here.
 
Yea The Netherlands is awesome. No CGT!

What are you doing in Sweden? It's like the worst place on earth to be in short of Mogadishu. And Mogadishu has better weather. And pirates!

Since I am also autistic as ****, I went through a similar phase. Then I lived abroad for a while. That fixed me right up. ATM I think I can be super happy everywhere. Except Sweden. Since even I can't be happy in Sweden, how can you be?!

So just go somewhere with actual people, instead of nothing but satanic cult members. You are only 23 so you have quite some time to learn normal social skills. It just takes some effort for a few years.

All that aside, though. I find it extremely strange that your husband is completely ignoring your situation. I'm autistic as heck and even I would notice if I had a wife that was lonely and unhappy. Is he Swedish? That would explain a lot. He's probably walking around thinking one string of thoughts over and over again "Everyone here is happy! This is the Swedish dream! This is the perfect country! Because everyone is happy! Anyone who is not happy does not exist and must be eliminated to restore balance to the universe!". Something like that anyway.

OMG, Sweden is rated to be the most happiest place of the Western world. Why o why are you not happy there? I am serious about that...the people of Sweden are supposed to be the happiest. Why are you saying this? I have always wanted to live in Norway, or rural Sweden. Everything is so awesome about Sweden. Excellant education and health system. Clean and pure food, water, no made in China plastic crap. Pure cotton and linin clothing. Great design aesthetics. Super enviromentally minded. What is not to like????
 
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Ok I do not live in Sweden. I live in a country that's way more awesome than Sweden, even though it's not even that awesome.

Happiness ratings are meaningless ratings. Most happiness ratings are based on metrics a bunch of Marxist professors consider "important for happiness" (social equality, universal healthcare, etc) and then assuming this to be scientific truth. The other form of these ratings are polls, which Swedes will vote themselves as extremely happy without reason because they think they should be extremely happy. Hence my previous post where I painted a rough picture of what is on the average Swedes' mind, and this does actually also include a large portion of "North/Western Europe".

Ok so I'm not here to pass off these statistics as absolute fact, but this is some interesting stuff to look at.
Happiness by Marxist metrics:
World Happiness Report - Wikipedia
Suicide rate:
List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia

As we can see, Finns are the happiest people in the world. They are also 35th in suicide rate. I do not see it as logical that such a happy population would be so excited about killing themselves. Swedes: 9th in happiness, 46th in suicide rate.

Norway is 2nd in happiness, behind Finland. Yet they have a suicide rate that's nearly 50% lower. Something does not add up. Luxembourg is at nr 17 in happiness but has one of the lowest suicide rates in Western Europe. UK is similar.

For all happiness reports from 2013 to 2018, Luxembourg and UK always dangled at the bottom of Western Europe, despite suicide statistics painting a completely different picture.

It gets even worse if you ignore religion, which I purposely didn't because I think believing that you'll go to hell for killing yourself is a pretty big motivator not to kill yourself. So hence I left out obvious cherry pick choices like Greece.

Again, this is just looking at the data. I think the UK is a hellhole just like Sweden, but statistics show that people there are at least not shouting "We are so happy!" while killing themselves in record numbers. For now, the numbers seem to be supporting OP's experience in Sweden, an experience I have heard from many people that expatriated to Sweden.
 
Ok I do not live in Sweden. I live in a country that's way more awesome than Sweden, even though it's not even that awesome.

Happiness ratings are meaningless ratings. Most happiness ratings are based on metrics a bunch of Marxist professors consider "important for happiness" (social equality, universal healthcare, etc) and then assuming this to be scientific truth. The other form of these ratings are polls, which Swedes will vote themselves as extremely happy without reason because they think they should be extremely happy. Hence my previous post where I painted a rough picture of what is on the average Swedes' mind, and this does actually also include a large portion of "North/Western Europe".

Ok so I'm not here to pass off these statistics as absolute fact, but this is some interesting stuff to look at.
Happiness by Marxist metrics:
World Happiness Report - Wikipedia
Suicide rate:
List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia

As we can see, Finns are the happiest people in the world. They are also 35th in suicide rate. I do not see it as logical that such a happy population would be so excited about killing themselves. Swedes: 9th in happiness, 46th in suicide rate.

Norway is 2nd in happiness, behind Finland. Yet they have a suicide rate that's nearly 50% lower. Something does not add up. Luxembourg is at nr 17 in happiness but has one of the lowest suicide rates in Western Europe. UK is similar.

For all happiness reports from 2013 to 2018, Luxembourg and UK always dangled at the bottom of Western Europe, despite suicide statistics painting a completely different picture.

It gets even worse if you ignore religion, which I purposely didn't because I think believing that you'll go to hell for killing yourself is a pretty big motivator not to kill yourself. So hence I left out obvious cherry pick choices like Greece.

Again, this is just looking at the data. I think the UK is a hellhole just like Sweden, but statistics show that people there are at least not shouting "We are so happy!" while killing themselves in record numbers. For now, the numbers seem to be supporting OP's experience in Sweden, an experience I have heard from many people that expatriated to Sweden.

Sounds like you love statistics. What is wrong with social equality, universal healthcare, etc??? I live in the USA and we can only fantasies to have those things!

Wait, you wrote as if you live in Sweden. You don’t? That what basis of info do your experiences derive from? How can you make negative assessments on entire populations of people? I don’t understand. And why are you discussing suicide as the deciding factor of happiness for entire populations? Suicide numbers are the way you formulate your opinion? Most countries indeed do have suicide 35 or 46 down the list is not impressive. Now if it were number one or two, I could understand. There is also huge alcoholism rates “up there” but one would not judge entire populations strictly by that.

The happiest people are probably the indigenous protected deep in rain forests, or high on unapproachable mountain tops, on invisible tiny islands, or deep in the Artic circle far far away anywhere there are no roads, no modern technology, and no other humans. Of course, they weren’t polled! :-)
 
According to those metrics, indigenous people living in the rain forests would be classified as unhappy. Hence you understand my point.

I have friends that expatriated within Europe. The ones that moved to Sweden were all miserable. Haven't heard complaints about Norway other than "It's so cold".

Statistics are the best method available to determine things such as this. Perceptions are often incorrect, as is the case with Sweden. Happy people don't kill themselves. Sweden, Finland, UK, Luxembourg are all rich western nations and yet one pair has a suicide rate that's 40% lower than the other pair. Why are Swedes and Finns so suicidal despite being so happy? Since there is no clear explanation for this huge discrepancy, we are going to have to assume that people's perceptions (based on nothing but polls/silly metrics) are incorrect when compared to these statistics (based on the rate at which certain populations kill themselves).
 
According to those metrics, indigenous people living in the rain forests would be classified as unhappy. Hence you understand my point.

I have friends that expatriated within Europe. The ones that moved to Sweden were all miserable. Haven't heard complaints about Norway other than "It's so cold".

Statistics are the best method available to determine things such as this. Perceptions are often incorrect, as is the case with Sweden. Happy people don't kill themselves. Sweden, Finland, UK, Luxembourg are all rich western nations and yet one pair has a suicide rate that's 40% lower than the other pair. Why are Swedes and Finns so suicidal despite being so happy? Since there is no clear explanation for this huge discrepancy, we are going to have to assume that people's perceptions (based on nothing but polls/silly metrics) are incorrect when compared to these statistics (based on the rate at which certain populations kill themselves).

“According to a 2011 article in The New York Times, "Numerous studies have shown that places like Denmark and Sweden that consistently score high on measures of happiness and life satisfaction also have relatively high suicide rates." Said article also reported, "Some social scientists speculate that the trends are probably unrelated and can be explained by regional factors like dark winters or cultural differences regarding suicide."

Suicide in Sweden - Wikipedia
Statistics are just data-which does not explore all possibilities of a subject. You are embracing statistics from one source as finate, while negating statistics from other sources?

Humans are complex organizisms. Very focused and single minded. Statistics show nothing of the other variables that could explain the differences in the numbers. I am sure without out too much effort, the explanation could be explained. I am extremely research driven...but I detest statistics because they never tell the complete story from any social perspective. Best not to just jump on numbers. You must work in insurance? Are you an actuary?

Also, suicide is not always an indicator of “unhappiness.” This is a very complex topic.
 
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Statistics are best used to quantitatively elaborate on something. With careful consideration given to any statistics intended to lead to any qualitative conclusions.

Where comparisons of nations and peoples can potentially become quite a precarious proposition.
 
OMG, Sweden is rated to be the most happiest place of the Western world. Why o why are you not happy there? I am serious about that...the people of Sweden are supposed to be the happiest. Why are you saying this? I have always wanted to live in Norway, or rural Sweden. Everything is so awesome about Sweden. Excellant education and health system. Clean and pure food, water, no made in China plastic crap. Pure cotton and linin clothing. Great design aesthetics. Super enviromentally minded. What is not to like????

I've lived in many countries that were supposed to be the happiest. Maybe there's guilt in it, for not feeling happy in them, leading into a spiral of negativity? I'm suffering from those a lot, judging from my need to be "normal".
Sweden is extremely bureaucratic, unfortunately. I've fallen into a loophole - moving here - that I can't get out of, so I do not qualify for any of the good parts of Sweden.
I can't own a library card, I do not qualify for any health systems nor help systems. I can't get professional mental help, can't be insured, and heck, I can't even get a course to teach me Swedish. Even if I were to pay for it!
Right now, I only count as a visitor in Sweden, despite being married to a Swede, and having lived here for two and a half years. This means I do not qualify for any unemployment services or welfare either. Me and my husband live on welfare that's barely enough for a single person, let alone two. I believe a poor financial environment is also adding on to my unhappiness.
 
I've lived in many countries that were supposed to be the happiest. Maybe there's guilt in it, for not feeling happy in them, leading into a spiral of negativity? I'm suffering from those a lot, judging from my need to be "normal".
Sweden is extremely bureaucratic, unfortunately. I've fallen into a loophole - moving here - that I can't get out of, so I do not qualify for any of the good parts of Sweden.
I can't own a library card, I do not qualify for any health systems nor help systems. I can't get professional mental help, can't be insured, and heck, I can't even get a course to teach me Swedish. Even if I were to pay for it!
Right now, I only count as a visitor in Sweden, despite being married to a Swede, and having lived here for two and a half years. This means I do not qualify for any unemployment services or welfare either. Me and my husband live on welfare that's barely enough for a single person, let alone two. I believe a poor financial environment is also adding on to my unhappiness.


Gosh, this is all very sad and horrifying. Not able to get any social services due to being an immigrant Is awful. If your husband is a Swede, why are you both “Living below the poverty line?” Why is he not allowed social services, or food, or a decent job (where both of you could benefit)? When and how can you leave this country as soon as possible? I think that quality of life, health, and self preservation issues mean that you leave Sweden ASAP.
 
Finance/Investing. Like actuarial science, statistics is quite important there.

Dark winters:
Norway has darker winters than Sweden/Finland.
Cultural difference:
There is no meaningful cultural difference between Sweden and Norway regarding suicide. The greatest influence (as I mentioned) is religion. This is what makes these countries such a good comparison in this regard.

There is no explanation other than "Sweden is falling apart and people are feeling the pressure". Hence why OP has no insurance or anything. The country is pretty much bankrupt. If you are at the bottom you are never escaping it in Sweden. Extreme tax pressure with very little return is what causes the high suicide rate, as Sweden is a financial deathtrap. Financial distress is an extremely common reason for suicide, primarily among men.

It feels like we are going in circles around this issue. I am happy and I've never thought about killing myself. Mainly because I don't live in Sweden.

She already explained she is stuck. So she can't do much for now other than suck it up. It sounds like her husband is also going through a bad period in his life. I think the most productive thing to do in her case is do something completely against Swedish culture and talk with her husband and spend more time together. There is no reason for her to feel alone and abandoned when she is married. The secondary (long term) plan is to find a way to return to her native land (Netherlands) where people are killing themselves far less often.
 

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