Seeking help with understanding depression

[scleod]

*Warning mental health conversation and unaliving mentioned*

I am not sure how to make sense of this but I will try. I have had depression before but in different way than this friend has so I don't understand.

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they don't see it) but then lost. They don't want to talk about their depression. They struggle with suicide. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (won't actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh). Their self worth is very bad (this is very prevalent) and they like everyone saying nice things about them. They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

I'm having a hard time understanding what depression feels like first hand. As they are unwilling to share anything with anyone so I cannot understand (Due to my emotional detachment, especially from depression).

I am also having a hard time figuring out what to do. I am getting very angry because they are not wanting to help themselves and are in a"wallowing" state. Which is VERY much NOT like them. They are typically strong and powerful. Seeming confident.

Advice, thoughts, experience...

 

[Cloudy Stuart]

My best friend has a history of depression and it was explained to her that depression is partly a physical condition. She was told that the stomach is unable to absorb vital chemicals that are required for brain function. Whether the stomach problem is an underlying cause or whether it is just another symptom I cannot say, or even whether that theory is now discredited. However she said she was able to cope better when she understood that there was a physical dysfunction and that it was not simply a matter of thinking the right thoughts. She was hospitalised for many months during her teenage years. She still has an underlying depression but she accepts it. She also said contact with Nature, particular the sea and woodland helps her mental state, although I think those things help all of us.

My brother had depression but it was one of many conditions, so it was not clear what was causing his exhaustion and apathy and non-communication at any one time. I agree that there is a temptation to persuade them to 'break out of it', but this does not work, maybe partly because there is a brain chemistry issue going on. My brother attempted self-harm but it was a call for help and he recovered after admission to hospital. I am sure it is very different in each case. He found groups set up around practical skills beneficial, particularly basic woodwork.

I recognise the lack of energy and the kind of 'slow motion' state you describe in your friend. One thing I would say is that my brother did often enjoy things and he felt improved by others' company but he was not able to express his enjoyment. He described a blockage where feelings he felt never made their way out. It could be your friend is enjoying your company but is unable to express it.

I would say walks in woodland would probably help you both, because knowing someone with depression can seem like carrying a weight. I would say also that practical activities especially crafts might help him. There are some forms of simple print-making that can very therapeutic. Working with wood was, as I say, one of my brother's favourites. Wood is a marvellous material.

So I would say that, like my brother, he might not be able to communicate freely what he feels except those things that have become what he usually says. He probably greatly appreciates your support but simply cannot freely express it. Craft groups, walks in woodland and possibly even something like soup-making might be good too. You are almost certainly doing a great job with him. I would say just keep as many people informed of his condition and of any changes as you can.

 

[Outdated]

My thoughts are similar to your own in this, some people might think my attitudes are a bit harsh but I spent the first 50 years of my life mixing with all sorts of people from all walks of life and I've seen a thing or two. My opinions aren't created from some academic treatise on ethics and morality, they come from decades of dealing with real people in the real world.

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they don't see it) but then lost. They don't want to talk about their depression. They struggle with suicide. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (wont actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh).

Attention seeking is absolutely a part of it, and with some people that's almost all of it.

They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

This also hints at another aspect of the same thing - Sympathy seeking. Regardless of whether they're just sympathy seekers or if they're genuinely about to top themselves this pattern shows up in nearly all of them.

Babied as a child and never taught to be independent, they spend the rest of their lives grasping for the same sort of constant praise and external validation that they got from their Mummy when they were like 4 years old. The trouble is that what they want is more than any human can give them, they'll drain all the life and joy out of everyone around them and nothing will ever be enough to fill that feeling of lack that they have.

Self esteem is the key to resolving the issue but this stems from self respect which is something you can't get from other people. It can only come from within. The part that a lot of people don't want to understand is that it's impossible to just start having respect for yourself, you have to earn it. The only way you earn respect for yourself is by doing things that make you proud of yourself. External validation plays no role whatsoever in this process, it's themselves that they have to make proud, not the others around them.

And that is why the external validation they constantly seek can't help them, in fact people pandering to their desires and constantly trying to prop them up merely reinforces the key problem and validates their feelings of lack of self worth.

 

[Lou Laurinen]

My thoughts are similar to your own in this, some people might think my attitudes are a bit harsh but I spent the first 50 years of my life mixing with all sorts of people from all walks of life and I've seen a thing or two. My opinions aren't created from some academic treatise on ethics and morality, they come from decades of dealing with real people in the real world.


Attention seeking is absolutely a part of it, and with some people that's almost all of it.


This also hints at another aspect of the same thing - Sympathy seeking. Regardless of whether they're just sympathy seekers or if they're genuinely about to top themselves this pattern shows up in nearly all of them.

Babied as a child and never taught to be independent, they spend the rest of their lives grasping for the same sort of constant praise and external validation that they got from their Mummy when they were like 4 years old. The trouble is that what they want is more than any human can give them, they'll drain all the life and joy out of everyone around them and nothing will ever be enough to fill that feeling of lack that they have.

Self esteem is the key to resolving the issue but this stems from self respect which is something you can't get from other people. It can only come from within. The part that a lot of people don't want to understand is that it's impossible to just start having respect for yourself, you have to earn it. The only way you earn respect for yourself is by doing things that make you proud of yourself. External validation plays no role whatsoever in this process, it's themselves that they have to make proud, not the others around them.

And that is why the external validation they constantly seek can't help them, in fact people pandering to their desires and constantly trying to prop them up merely reinforces the key problem and validates their feelings of lack of self worth.

I came here to post basically the same thing but was worried about coming across as too harsh as well lol.
I've had several friends like this over the course of my life, and was always better off after cutting them loose. My group of friends has been virtually free of drama for a few years now after doing away with the last couple of these, who wreaked absolute havoc on our mental health.

 

[Outdated]

I've had several friends like this over the course of my life, and was always better off after cutting them loose. My group of friends has been virtually free of drama for a few years now after doing away with the last couple of these, who wreaked absolute havoc on our mental health.

It's a lesson most of us only ever learn the hard way. We like to help and support our friends but some people need far more than we can give, far more than anyone can give. Eventually they have to learn to start standing on their own two feet, or not.

The havoc they wreak on our own mental health is a very valid point and one a lot of people like to try and ignore, but consider it from the point of view of a medical emergency responder, the very first rule that they must follow at all times is to avoid danger to themselves before attempting to help others, otherwise they could end up of no help to anyone.

 

[AuAL]

Self esteem is the key to resolving the issue but this stems from self respect which is something you can't get from other people. It can only come from within. The part that a lot of people don't want to understand is that it's impossible to just start having respect for yourself, you have to earn it. The only way you earn respect for yourself is by doing things that make you proud of yourself. External validation plays no role whatsoever in this process, it's themselves that they have to make proud, not the others around them.

And that is why the external validation they constantly seek can't help them, in fact people pandering to their desires and constantly trying to prop them up merely reinforces the key problem and validates their feelings of lack of self worth.

I have suffered from depression, spent years in therapy, and considered ways of “making it end.” Discovering I was autistic (at age 64) was a huge step forward.

I agree self esteem is a key factor, and earning self respect by doing things that make you proud is a key step. BUT, I was explicilty taught as a child not to take pride in who or what I was, but only in what I achieved. I sought external validation for my achievements, to make sure they were not intrinsic, prideful vanity, but externally valued. I was a child. Some things that brought me joy were considered frivolous, and I was encouraged to excise them from my life (leaving me with regrets lasting more than 40 years.) I have been left with low self esteem (despite considerable externally validated achievements - they bring no lasting feelings of worth) and RSD.

For some, the “solution” is clear and obvious. But we all live on spectrums, and our life experiences teach us lessons in different ways.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

*Warning mental health conversation and unaliving mentioned*

I am not sure how to make sense of this but I will try. I have had depression before but in different way than this friend has so I don't understand.

You don't have to have autism to experience bouts of depression... obviously... but much of this is a combination of low serotonin, low dopamine, other hormonal milieu, nutritional status, as well as life trauma(s), PTSD, and emotional dysregulation. There's a lot of influencers.

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they don't see it) but then lost. They don't want to talk about their depression. They struggle with suicide. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

Obviously, they need to talk to a professional to help them work through the underlying causes... before it's too late.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (won't actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh).

They are seeking dopamine and serotonin "hits". Validation, "likes", "hearts", complements... any positive attention. Sometimes this means "putting themselves out there" as a means of obtaining that attention. Social media platforms are a tool... as are more "risky" behaviors like females making photo and video content to get that attention. You are right... it is attention seeking behavior... but for all the positive attention they are seeking... there is someone who will give them negative attention for the same behavior and hits them hard... really hard... and this is where we worry about suicidal ideation. A hundred people can give you positive attention... but that one harsh criticism can undermine it all... people can be absolutely brutal behind a computer screen. Attention and validation is a fools game.

Their self worth is very bad (this is very prevalent) and they like everyone saying nice things about them. They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

The alcohol, drugs... are a symptom... not a cause... as they are simply trying to escape their situation for a while in an altered mental state. Toxic friends and relationships... trying to get attention in all the wrong places. Chaos... more attention seeking behavior. As painful as all of this is... for some... any attention is better than no attention. It can be self destructive.

I'm having a hard time understanding what depression feels like first hand. As they are unwilling to share anything with anyone so I cannot understand (Due to my emotional detachment, especially from depression).

We can talk of symptoms here, but to understand what depression feels like... I think that varies from person to person. It can be difficult to describe the amount of "emptiness" and lack of emotional engagement that occurs... where everything in life is just "flat" and "boring" and "why bother"... your mind just disengages. For some, it's a deep pain... in your heart and gut. So why live?

I am also having a hard time figuring out what to do. I am getting very angry because they are not wanting to help themselves and are in a"wallowing" state. Which is VERY much NOT like them. They are typically strong and powerful. Seeming confident.

Rumination... the worst thing we can do to ourselves... but once you're in that cycle, it's difficult to pull yourself out of it. It's a strange situation where talking about your problems... venting... releasing that emotional energy... can be helpful. However, rumination... where you're running through these thoughts in your head, over and over... without that release of emotional energy... reinforces those thoughts... like footsteps making a path through the woods or in the snow... matting down and creating a path of least resistance. People can get themselves mired in these thoughts... I see it all the time here on the forums. Grown adults still ruminating over childhood events... it's insanity when you step back and think about it... but a lot of people have these issues. They are reliving their past when they should be making plans and setting goals for their future. No good comes of this.

Advice, thoughts, experience...

Everyone's situation is different... but a good therapist can be helpful to allow them to just vent that emotional energy... sometimes medications can help with the dopamine and serotonin deficiencies... sometimes nutrition needs to be addressed... sometimes "new people" around them can be helpful... sometimes a new environment, a new interest, a new lifestyle, things to stimulate their brain enough to force them out of those repetitive, rumination cycles. Often, it's a combination of things.

 

[scleod]

I have suffered from depression, spent years in therapy, and considered ways of “making it end.” Discovering I was autistic (at age 64) was a huge step forward.

I agree self esteem is a key factor, and earning self respect by doing things that make you proud is a key step. BUT, I was explicilty taught as a child not to take pride in who or what I was, but only in what I achieved.

If you don't mind me asking.

What was it that caused your parents to explicitly teach you to take pride in achievements. Did you grow up in a religious household, academic driven (etc)?

Also, what helps someone like you who struggles with depression earn self respect?

 

[scleod]

This all is very informative thank you.

Obviously, they need to talk to a professional to help them work through the underlying causes... before it's too late.

They are seeking dopamine and serotonin "hits". Validation, "likes", "hearts", complements... any positive attention. Sometimes this means "putting themselves out there" as a means of obtaining that attention. Social media platforms are a tool... as are more "risky" behaviors like females making photo and video content to get that attention. You are right... it is attention seeking behavior... but for all the positive attention they are seeking... there is someone who will give them negative attention for the same behavior and hits them hard... really hard... and this is where we worry about suicidal ideation. A hundred people can give you positive attention... but that one harsh criticism can undermine it all... people can be absolutely brutal behind a computer screen. Attention and validation is a fools game.

Being newly diagnosed Autistic. I am not sure if it is a "me" thing or a normal autistic brain thing. But I just dont experience feelings, criticisms, pain etc the same as others (all the time).

if you could clarify for me. What do you mean by harsh criticism? What would that look like.

Also, (some) tough love with regards to this attention seeking behavior. Is that a poor choice in your opinion? I should probably clarify that this person (male) can typically be quite emotional. That comparing to a female. I am more of the male energy in regards to emotions and can be quite blunt with my words. But my heart is always in the right place.

 

[Judge]

Being newly diagnosed Autistic. I am not sure if it is a "me" thing or a normal autistic brain thing. But I just don't experience feelings, criticisms, pain etc the same as others (all the time).

Perhaps it might be a better precursor regarding such a question to consider an alternate question posed towards yourself.

How would you feel about someone in your social orbit genuinely asking you a question about your autism, and how they can better help you in the event of an autistic shutdown or meltdown ?

That you might just conclude that if there is an answer to such things, it may ultimately have to come from the person in question. That it cannot be answered by any other person, regardless of their good intentions.

 

[AprilR]

For me, depression comes and goes and is related and triggered with real life problems that are difficult to solve.

Do you know if there was an event in their life that might have triggered it? Like a death of a loved one, a break up or divorce? Or have they been like that from the start? Depression is caused by also genetic factors from what i understand.

Either way, therapy and medication is the only solution. And if there is a problem that actually triggered it that is solvable, trying to solve these issues.

 

[monkeyclogs]

i'm sure everyone is different but when i'm suicidal I don't talk about it at all.

in my experience people who do talk about it are seeking help with something not death. Often they feel trapped, can't see a way out and dont know how to express this any other way.

Clinical depression can make it difficult to know what you need let alone figure out how to meet that need. It's like your brain is covered in treacle. Your friend's current state sounds more like a fight or flight response much more agitated than my experience of depression and closer to a mixed state.

the date setting is a coping mechanism. you can tolerate almost anything if you know it's not forever. Why anyone would ever share the existence of the date I have no idea. That seems quite manipulative to me, but perhaps an expression of the urgency they feel is needed, or a sign that they don't actually want to take the suicide route and are hoping someone will help them find an alternative.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

This all is very informative thank you.

Being newly diagnosed Autistic. I am not sure if it is a "me" thing or a normal autistic brain thing. But I just dont experience feelings, criticisms, pain etc the same as others (all the time).

My experience, as well. Like you, I am not one to experience rumination and deep depression like some of our brothers and sisters here, but it comes across more like a "flat affect." No real highs or lows. Some of it is alexithymia aka "emotional blindness". If someone were to ask me what I am feeling right now, my typical response would be "nothing", quite literally, "nothing". I also have a relatively high sense of confidence and self esteem, so I don't pay much attention to others attempting to insult, control, or manipulate me. I let them know... right now... it isn't tolerated. Pain: I've been taught to ignore discomfort and pain, both from not knowing I was autistic for decades, just pushing through sensory issues because I just assumed this was "normal" and I still had to perform, and two, decades of competitive athletics where pain and injuries were simply "normal" and not to be paid much attention to. Three: being autistic and not picking up and reading a lot of social and communication cues... how things were said to me. I was and am oblivious to little insults and slights put upon me and just kept doing and saying whatever it was that triggered their reaction.

if you could clarify for me. What do you mean by harsh criticism? What would that look like.

An example might be a woman who is transforming her body. Let's say she looses 50lbs... definitely an accomplishment to be be applauded. She is feeling better, is more active, getting positive vibes from everyone. Posts before and after photos. Then someone posts that she still is ugly and needs to loose another 30lbs. Totally uncalled for. Cruel.

Another example might be a situation at work where you are very busy... a lot going on... but you are making it work, things are getting done, but perhaps there's a bit too much going on and there are delays. Someone complains to your boss that you didn't help them, that it took to long, that because you were "slow", it somehow negatively impacted the process or the well-being of another person. Your boss doesn't like complaints thrown their way because it makes the department look bad... and ultimately, they look bad. So, instead of addressing the staffing issues or putting more resources in your direction, your boss scolds you in their office and gives you the warning that "there won't be a next time"--- you'll be fired.

Also, (some) tough love with regards to this attention seeking behavior. Is that a poor choice in your opinion? I should probably clarify that this person (male) can typically be quite emotional. That comparing to a female. I am more of the male energy in regards to emotions and can be quite blunt with my words. But my heart is always in the right place.

The thing with depression... because it is emotionally rooted... logic and facts rarely work well. You can gently guide someone in a direction towards getting help... like a small rudder on a big boat... but if they feel like you are "stepping in" and trying to control, no good can come of it. Ultimately, it has to be their decision. There's a lot of nuance to this and everyone is going to have different reactions that may be unpredictable.

 

[scleod]

i'm sure everyone is different but when i'm suicidal I don't talk about it at all.

That is my experience as well. They dont want to talk about how they are feeling though just that they want to "end".

in my experience people who do talk about it are seeking help with something not death. Often they feel trapped, can't see a way out and dont know how to express this any other way.

Clinical depression can make it difficult to know what you need let alone figure out how to meet that need. It's like your brain is covered in treacle. Your friend's current state sounds more like a fight or flight response much more agitated than my experience of depression and closer to a mixed state.

Ahh, okay. That makes sense.

the date setting is a coping mechanism. you can tolerate almost anything if you know it's not forever. Why anyone would ever share the existence of the date I have no idea. That seems quite manipulative to me, but perhaps an expression of the urgency they feel is needed, or a sign that they don't actually want to take the suicide route and are hoping someone will help them find an alternative.

The coping mechanism is a good way to look at it. It being "not forever". They are typically not a manipulative person ever. Them seeming manipulative that ALSO shocked me. That does make me feel better though that it comes across that way. But now understanding it is a sense of urgency and them looking for someone to find an alternate route, that helps.

Hopefully I can help them find the strength to find that route. Well not hopefully, I will.

 

[scleod]

alexithymia... aka "emotional blindness".

Thank you. Alexithymia escaped my mind. I definitely struggle with emotional blindness often having to ask "why are they upset?".

If someone were to ask me what I am feeling right now, my typical response would be "nothing"... quite literally, "nothing". I also have a relatively high sense of confidence and self esteem, so I don't pay much attention to others attempting to insult, control, or manipulate me. I let them know... right now... it isn't tolerated. Pain... I've been taught to ignore discomfort and pain... both from not knowing I was autistic for decades... just pushing through sensory issues because I just assumed this was "normal" and I still had to perform... and two, decades of competitive athletics where pain and injuries were simply "normal" and not to be paid much attention to.

I experience feelings of "nothing" quite often. Having high self esteem and confidence. My pain tolerance is high as well. From many years of competitive sports (15 years playing hockey), being the youngest with older brothers, among other things. I have walked on a broken foot till it healed and not known until I broke it again and have been known for my stoic demeanor.

Three... being autistic and not picking up and reading a lot of social and communication cues... how things were said to me... I was and am oblivious to little insults and slights put upon me and just kept doing and saying whatever it was that triggered their reaction.

I relate to this as well.

An example might be a woman who is transforming her body... let's say she looses 50lbs... definitely an accomplishment to be be applauded... she is feeling better, is more active, getting positive vibes from everyone...posts before and after photos... and then someone posts that she still is ugly and needs to loose another 30lbs. Totally uncalled for... cruel.

Another example might be a situation at work where you are very busy... a lot going on... but you are making it work, things are getting done, but perhaps there's a bit too much going on and there are delays. Someone complains to your boss that you didn't help them... that it took to long... that because you were "slow", it somehow negatively impacted the process or the well-being of another person. Your boss doesn't like complaints thrown their way because it makes the department look bad... and ultimately, they look bad. So, instead of addressing the staffing issues or putting more resources in your direction... your boss scolds you in their office and gives you the warning that "there won't be a next time"... you'll be fired.

Ahhh okay.

The thing with depression... because it is emotionally rooted... logic and facts rarely work well. You can gently guide someone in a direction towards getting help... like a small rudder on a big boat... but if they feel like you are "stepping in" and trying to control, no good can come of it. Ultimately, it has to be their decision. There's a lot of nuance to this and everyone is going to have different reactions that may be unpredictable.

Interesting take. I never thought of it this way. The "stepping in" and trying to take control part. How no good can come of this, that the reaction may be unpredictable.

I do understand of course that depression is a chemical imbalance and has to do with the way the brain is wired. But I did not realize there is also the same defence mechanisms as someone who has an addiction.

 

[JayCee]

Guess, I will try to offer this " my" opinion again . As someone wrote above, I have been around the block on this stuff . Out of 62 years a total of 14 not being clinically depressed.
in total . My opinion will not coincide with most others here .And will still offer it . Due to the large variety of circumstances under which had been suicidally depressed . Self Image. it is important to think of the things you have survived through . Regardless of large or small . Focus on those. like your life depends on it .Exercise regularily, important , it stimulates , the lack of blood flow. That being depressed can bring . Dr. Brian Jennings work of Santa Monica ,Calif. Spect scans, ( showing 100 %) of more severly depressed patients show low blood flow In the left prefrontal cortex, Later Documented again by famous Dr, Amen .Clinical trials in Connecticut,( do not quote me on that State ) In the Early 2000s , clinical trials con: efficacy of r TMS treatment showing much promise .
Treatments were showing consistently good results . If repeated treatments applied over a Long period of time . Than just a few treatments . Personal experience by,myself and Another Woman . Bloodflow maintained is paramount importance to allieviate .condition .
Personal experience , many psyche docs keeping me on extended treatment with various SSRI ..etc. still use tiny dose of a tranq to help sleep . Due to massive subsequent massive trauma, resulting in PTSD in addition to criminal injustice and personal loss .Another 15 yrs suicidal ideations. More meds . Dietary changes, and regular exercise minimum 1 x a week anerobic jogging .Some recovery . Clinical trials not available for TMS treatment anymore.Getting by. Be an Ear to your friend . Thats it ! or invite to join in exercise, if they need support to start . ( encourage healthy diet) if possible .Seek out supplementations that are directly geared towards cognitive function . Add very moderate coffee to diet,if tolerated well. ? Found talk therapy helpful too. But if you have sufficeintly strong reserves and character. Be Only a Ear for them inbetween. Everyone finds their own path . If meds are your thing ( bad idea imho) please consider side effects,5 years of various SSRI s gave me a cataract in one eye. Later found it was documented side effect.
Just my experiences for better or worse.

 

[Kayla55]

Could I classify depression into 2x categories,
Those that haven't tried to tackle the rat race
And
Those who beaten down by the system, and are drowning trying to find new solutions to impossible world.

Example: after leaving my amazing friendship circle, I discovered she took more of my advice and then increased her pay check to ten gold for no apparent reason, to myself at least.
Feeling as though I had less options to get out shittty paying job and that I starting to believe in total ludicracy that to get ahead of getting a loan, one had to attend something called Epstein's gathering.
If I put in any more overtime on minimum wage, I swear it would've lead to further insanity, especially since it didn't cover after care let alone half the bills.

 

[scleod]

To clarify (probably dont need to).


I have also struggled with unaliving thoughts (emotionless/ not having feelings) when younger. But never verbalized the thoughts. Confusing enough I had love for myself, confidence, thought I was amazing or the best. Just simply wanted to exit this world. I did act on these thoughts more than once and was successful in unaliving myself but brought back. Having significant trauma probably was a contributing factor.

With this, I DO have the understanding of the desire to "unalive". Just do not understand verbalizing it. Or wanting to do it because of not having; self worth, purpose or value. When this person is so CLEARLY valued. They have countless friends who care for them deeply. Also they feeling like your life has "run it's course" which I do not understand because biologically their body has not decided that. Scientifically it doesn't make sense to me.

With that. All of the information is helping immensely as I am very "emotionally blind" I feel. Considering my baseline is not starting at an appropriate point. Especially in response to how much they are feeling.

I do want to help though of course, more than anything. But my impairment (Internal of course) when dealing with emotions of others is something I dont want to get in the way. So knowledge/ understanding I seek.

Thank you all.

 

[AuAL]

If you don't mind me asking.

What was it that caused your parents to explicitly teach you to take pride in achievements. Did you grow up in a religious household, academic driven (etc)?

Also, what helps someone like you who struggles with depression earn self respect?

Heavily academic driven. I was 2e - when I was 7 years old I was asked to read a story I had written in front of the whole school, at the school assembly. I received my first award for academic excellence that year. But I was told not to take pride in my innate ability to do these things. My parents showed pleasure for these external, tangible forms of validation. I have been seeking them ever since.

Understanding more about myself, my autism, helped significantly with the depression. I fell below the threshold for psychological intervention within weeks of that discovery. I still struggle with anxiety, and have not completely overcome that, yet. (“Yet” is one of the most powerful words in the English language.)

 

[Wizardry]

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they don't see it) but then lost. They don't want to talk about their depression. They struggle with suicide. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (won't actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh). Their self worth is very bad (this is very prevalent) and they like everyone saying nice things about them. They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

I think it's fair to say that people who threaten suicide are seeking attention by definition, but not always in the manipulative way that many people characterise it as. If one is feeling so low that suicide seems preferable to continuing to live, they're experiencing a personal emergency. In an emergency, we would expect someone to "cry for help", which inherently means that they must want the attention of others.

As for alcohol, when one is in a perpetually negative emotional state, intoxication to try to numb that state is common. Maybe alcohol causes them problems here and there, but they wouldn't keep drinking if they weren't getting something out of it. They're probably trying to numb their emotions or dissociate.

When your friend is threatening suicide or talking about their issues, if I were you, my question to them would be "what can I do to help?" or "what would help you get to a better place?" If they say there's nothing that can be done to help them, then you have to concede to yourself that there's probably nothing you can do, other than urge them to see professionals who actually might be able to help them.