Seeking help with understanding depression

[scleod]

*Warning mental health conversation and unaliving mentioned*

I am not sure how to make sense of this but I will try. I have had depression before but in different way than this friend has so I dont understand.

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they dont see it) but then lost. They dont want to talk about their depression. They struggle with sxxxxde. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (wont actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh). Their self worth is very bad (this is very prevalent) and they like everyone saying nice things about them. They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

I'm having a hard time understanding what depression feels like first hand. As they are unwilling to share anything with anyone so I cannot understand (Due to my emotional detachment, especially from depression).

I am also having a hard time figuring out what to do. I am getting very angry because they are not wanting to help themselves and are in a"wallowing" state. Which is VERY much NOT like them. They are typically strong and powerful. Seeming confident.

Advice, thoughts, experience...

 

[Cloudy Stuart]

My best friend has a history of depression and it was explained to her that depression is partly a physical condition. She was told that the stomach is unable to absorb vital chemicals that are required for brain function. Whether the stomach problem is an underlying cause or whether it is just another symptom I cannot say, or even whether that theory is now discredited. However she said she was able to cope better when she understood that there was a physical dysfunction and that it was not simply a matter of thinking the right thoughts. She was hospitalised for many months during her teenage years. She still has an underlying depression but she accepts it. She also said contact with Nature, particular the sea and woodland helps her mental state, although I think those things help all of us.

My brother had depression but it was one of many conditions, so it was not clear what was causing his exhaustion and apathy and non-communication at any one time. I agree that there is a temptation to persuade them to 'break out of it', but this does not work, maybe partly because there is a brain chemistry issue going on. My brother attempted self-harm but it was a call for help and he recovered after admission to hospital. I am sure it is very different in each case. He found groups set up around practical skills beneficial, particularly basic woodwork.

I recognise the lack of energy and the kind of 'slow motion' state you describe in your friend. One thing I would say is that my brother did often enjoy things and he felt improved by others' company but he was not able to express his enjoyment. He described a blockage where feelings he felt never made their way out. It could be your friend is enjoying your company but is unable to express it.

I would say walks in woodland would probably help you both, because knowing someone with depression can seem like carrying a weight. I would say also that practical activities especially crafts might help him. There are some forms of simple print-making that can very therapeutic. Working with wood was, as I say, one of my brother's favourites. Wood is a marvellous material.

So I would say that, like my brother, he might not be able to communicate freely what he feels except those things that have become what he usually says. He probably greatly appreciates your support but simply cannot freely express it. Craft groups, walks in woodland and possibly even something like soup-making might be good too. You are almost certainly doing a great job with him. I would say just keep as many people informed of his condition and of any changes as you can.

 

[Outdated]

My thoughts are similar to your own in this, some people might think my attitudes are a bit harsh but I spent the first 50 years of my life mixing with all sorts of people from all walks of life and I've seen a thing or two. My opinions aren't created from some academic treatise on ethics and morality, they come from decades of dealing with real people in the real world.

This friend I have who is struggling with depression is very much themselves at times (they dont see it) but then lost. They dont want to talk about their depression. They struggle with sxxxxde. Constantly threatening it. They keep mentioning making a plan in months to come.

I understand they are dealing with depression. But to me it seems they are seeking attention (wont actually follow through sorry that sounds harsh).

Attention seeking is absolutely a part of it, and with some people that's almost all of it.

They also are also doing minimal step to get better including therapy once in a while. But not staying away from triggers that cause problems for them ie alcohol, toxic friendship, chaos etc

This also hints at another aspect of the same thing - Sympathy seeking. Regardless of whether they're just sympathy seekers or if they're genuinely about to top themselves this pattern shows up in nearly all of them.

Babied as a child and never taught to be independent, they spend the rest of their lives grasping for the same sort of constant praise and external validation that they got from their Mummy when they were like 4 years old. The trouble is that what they want is more than any human can give them, they'll drain all the life and joy out of everyone around them and nothing will ever be enough to fill that feeling of lack that they have.

Self esteem is the key to resolving the issue but this stems from self respect which is something you can't get from other people. It can only come from within. The part that a lot of people don't want to understand is that it's impossible to just start having respect for yourself, you have to earn it. The only way you earn respect for yourself is by doing things that make you proud of yourself. External validation plays no role whatsoever in this process, it's themselves that they have to make proud, not the others around them.

And that is why the external validation they constantly seek can't help them, in fact people pandering to their desires and constantly trying to prop them up merely reinforces the key problem and validates their feelings of lack of self worth.

 

[Lou Laurinen]

My thoughts are similar to your own in this, some people might think my attitudes are a bit harsh but I spent the first 50 years of my life mixing with all sorts of people from all walks of life and I've seen a thing or two. My opinions aren't created from some academic treatise on ethics and morality, they come from decades of dealing with real people in the real world.


Attention seeking is absolutely a part of it, and with some people that's almost all of it.


This also hints at another aspect of the same thing - Sympathy seeking. Regardless of whether they're just sympathy seekers or if they're genuinely about to top themselves this pattern shows up in nearly all of them.

Babied as a child and never taught to be independent, they spend the rest of their lives grasping for the same sort of constant praise and external validation that they got from their Mummy when they were like 4 years old. The trouble is that what they want is more than any human can give them, they'll drain all the life and joy out of everyone around them and nothing will ever be enough to fill that feeling of lack that they have.

Self esteem is the key to resolving the issue but this stems from self respect which is something you can't get from other people. It can only come from within. The part that a lot of people don't want to understand is that it's impossible to just start having respect for yourself, you have to earn it. The only way you earn respect for yourself is by doing things that make you proud of yourself. External validation plays no role whatsoever in this process, it's themselves that they have to make proud, not the others around them.

And that is why the external validation they constantly seek can't help them, in fact people pandering to their desires and constantly trying to prop them up merely reinforces the key problem and validates their feelings of lack of self worth.

I came here to post basically the same thing but was worried about coming across as too harsh as well lol.
I've had several friends like this over the course of my life, and was always better off after cutting them loose. My group of friends has been virtually free of drama for a few years now after doing away with the last couple of these, who wreaked absolute havoc on our mental health.

 

[Outdated]

I've had several friends like this over the course of my life, and was always better off after cutting them loose. My group of friends has been virtually free of drama for a few years now after doing away with the last couple of these, who wreaked absolute havoc on our mental health.

It's a lesson most of us only ever learn the hard way. We like to help and support our friends but some people need far more than we can give, far more than anyone can give. Eventually they have to learn to start standing on their own two feet, or not.

The havoc they wreak on our own mental health is a very valid point and one a lot of people like to try and ignore, but consider it from the point of view of a medical emergency responder, the very first rule that they must follow at all times is to avoid danger to themselves before attempting to help others, otherwise they could end up of no help to anyone.