"Rejection is part of life"

[velociraptor]

What I've noticed is: At social events, everyone else mingles with ease, yet I'm lost.

Oh, this is totally me as well. It's why I don't bother with social events. I go and do things that are of interest to me and I meet people who share those interests and that is how I connect. The single mingle things have always been a sneak preview of Hell so far as I'm concerned.

 

[FeatherBird]

Agree. Ever been to social anxiety meetup groups, introvert groups? They are almost the same experience as regular neurotypical groups they claim their for social anxiety, but it's the same thing I go to them, and they are socializing with everyone else while I'm sitting there by myself the outcast every single time so that's a bunch of BS saying that people and socialize easily I'm always the outcast every single time, so I agree with that statement.

I've never been to the exact type of event you asked about.

I (per my counselor's suggestion) attended an event that was supposed to attract the outcasts of society, however. I ended up being the odd one out.

 

[FeatherBird]

Not quite an instinct, but this is the result of the general ASD characteristic deficit in the knowledge, skills, and experience needed for social interactions.

It's hard work and time consuming to address that deficit, but significant improvement is possible.
It's equally valid not to address it of course, but then you have to accept the status quo.


I don't understand the quote above in the context of the OP. Note that I'm assuming that the person who said you need to learn to accept rejection is your therapist - i.e. that you were implicitly asking for input.

It's almost completely binary.
* If you "ask people out", you'll get rejected sometimes, perhaps almost always.
* You can reliably avoid being rejected by not asking, but with the obvious consequence.

What might you get if you ask a specialists? There's no straightforward answer to that, but here's a simplified and highly-polarized perspective:

If you force an answer from a "compulsively positive talk therapist" you'll be told "Just wait, and sooner or later it will work itself out". Which might feel nice in the moment, but it near-useless advice for almost everyone (NT and ND).

Or, if you're lucky enough to have a realistic therapist, they should recommend things like:
* General self-improvement
* Work on your social skills, with a slight bias towards interaction with your preferred romantic target category/categories
* Acceptance of the inevitable negative side-effects of pursuing your objectives

It's always an option to "shop around" for someone who tells you what you want in the moment. Which is highly unlikely to lead to positive results, but if you're not going to follow a therapists' advice, you might as well select for feeling good while listening to it.

The comment about rejection being part of life is something I've heard from various folks both online and in person.

Interestingly, however, my counselor totally understands my aversion to rejection.

She recommends dating sites (because I told her rejection doesn't sting as much for me if the rejection takes place on a dating site)

You could call singlehood a consequence of refusing to do askouts. But then again, if I get rejected 100%/nearly 100% of the time anyway, I'm (far more likely than not) going to remain single regardless (even if I do more askouts). If I'm going to remain single anyway, I'd rather be merely single than single and humiliated (rejections from most settings other than dating sites are humiliating)

 

[Hypnalis]

You could call singlehood a consequence of refusing to do askouts. But then again, if I get rejected 100%/nearly 100% of the time anyway, I'm (far more likely than not) going to remain single regardless (even if I do more askouts). If I'm going to remain single anyway, I'd rather be merely single than single and humiliated (rejections from most settings other than dating sites are humiliating)

This (in an earlier form) is why I responded to the thread.

Any decision you make is on you of course. And "not playing the game" is a valid adult decision.
But there are different ways to do that.

My suggestion is to switch to "self improvement", including working on your social skills and multiple physical activities. 'Switch" because if you stop looking for a partner, you'll have time(and money) over, and expanding your existing free-time activities to fill that time probably isn't the best path forward.

BTW I'm 100% aware that if everyone does exactly the same self-actualization activities with the same intensity, their relative "attractiveness" won't change at all. I don't believe the "change your life to find a partner" narrative you see in books and online. It always seems to come from grifters looking for sales of product or customers for expensive seminars and classes.

I'm not suggesting that you do this as a way to "compete" with others.
Leave the game entirely for a while. Improve yourself in ways that you want (but be sure to include physical training).

What this gets you is a "you" that you're happier with than the current one, and some good habits. It's sufficient as a tactical objective.

 

[FeatherBird]

This (in an earlier form) is why I responded to the thread.

Any decision you make is on you of course. And "not playing the game" is a valid adult decision.
But there are different ways to do that.

My suggestion is to switch to "self improvement", including working on your social skills and multiple physical activities. 'Switch" because if you stop looking for a partner, you'll have time(and money) over, and expanding your existing free-time activities to fill that time probably isn't the best path forward.

BTW I'm 100% aware that if everyone does exactly the same self-actualization activities with the same intensity, their relative "attractiveness" won't change at all. I don't believe the "change your life to find a partner" narrative you see in books and online. It always seems to come from grifters looking for sales of product or customers for expensive seminars and classes.

I'm not suggesting that you do this as a way to "compete" with others.
Leave the game entirely for a while. Improve yourself in ways that you want (but be sure to include physical training).

What this gets you is a "you" that you're happier with than the current one, and some good habits. It's sufficient as a tactical objective.

This isn't the first time I've been told to work out (although I must say: I'm shocked to hear it on an autism forum of all places)

Being autistic, normal daily life exhausts me to a degree unimaginable to neurotypicals. I don't have the energy to work out.

 

[velociraptor]

Being autistic, normal daily life exhausts me to a degree unimaginable to neurotypicals. I don't have the energy to work out.

Try doing it while being autistic and also having schizophrenia (negative symptoms) as a co-morbidity, the fatigue that comes with taking anti-psychotics, and, finally, being born with a crippling heart condition on top of it all. I still manage to exercise daily so I see your excuse for what it is: An excuse.

If you have the energy to complain you have the energy to exercise. Start with a few circuits of your home and build from there.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I meet someone three weeks ago she is going through similar issues as me. I was actually told from pastors saying that I want to meet and be friends with a girl with issues like me. I was told "never gonna happen". Well it happened. Now I am scared because I don't know what to do.

Don't be anxious or scared. Having similar issues, think of how it has made you feel and recognize that she may feel the same way. Value her. Your work now is to make her feel safe with you. Respect her and listen actively. You live in Brooklyn and with all of NYC to choose from, you can certainly explore discovering things together. It does not need to be expensive and experiences together is bonding.

 

[FeatherBird]

On a note that's somewhat related to the topic of the thread, another thing I hate is when I (or others) get called entitled for merely venting about having bad luck romantically.

I can only speak for myself...but the last thing I'd want is for an uninterested party to be forced into being with me (so no, I'm not "entitled"). What irks me is how difficult it is for me to find a partner who wants to be with me.

Which compels me to mention another point: I'm basically illiterate at telling the difference between niceness and interest.

There have probably been times through the years when another party was genuinely into me, yet I never did an askout because I couldn't tell if there was genuine interest or if they were "only being nice" (and I didn't want to risk the humiliation of doing an askout only to find out they were "only being nice")

I guarantee there are potential partners who want to be with me. I just wish there were a reliable way for me to identify who's into me vs who's "only being nice"

Additionally, there have been instances through the years where I never in my wildest dreams would have guessed a woman was into me, yet I found out through the grapevine she's into me (In other words, in addition to having a hard time telling whether her signs are mere niceness or genuine interest, sometimes I don't pick up on any signs  period)

There's no telling how many times through the years the scenario I just described (woman was into me, yet I failed to pick up on any signs at all) has happened without me being lucky enough to find out through the grapevine.

In a nutshell, even if my romantic opportunities aren't as abundant as Brad Pitt's romantic opportunities, there are romantic opportunities for me. I just have a hard time locating said opportunities.

 

[FeatherBird]

Try doing it while being autistic and also having schizophrenia (negative symptoms) as a co-morbidity, the fatigue that comes with taking anti-psychotics, and, finally, being born with a crippling heart condition on top of it all. I still manage to exercise daily so I see your excuse for what it is: An excuse.

If you have the energy to complain you have the energy to exercise. Start with a few circuits of your home and build from there.

I'm on a bus to work right now. Even if I was interested in getting a workout regimen, I wouldn't be able to work out right this second.

I've heard what you're saying before ("If you have time to post, you have time to work out")...never mind the fact a majority of my posting doesn't even take place at home.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

Guessing you're not employed or you would have noticed what women have to deal with in the workplace. It is very uncool and unfair to them.

actually i am working, i do have a job at the moment, been working at a warehouse for 4 years now, but i've never worked in a high professional job before, only regular entry level jobs

 

[Hypnalis]

Guessing you're not employed or you would have noticed what women have to deal with in the workplace. It is very uncool and unfair to them.

Since this has come up again, I think it deserves a reaction:

I strongly doubt it's true in 2021, and certainly wouldn't believe it without actual data to back it up.

And BTW: in matters like this, one example means nothing. In fact I could provide one myself.
But I could also provide counter examples based on my personal experience.
Given that harassment at work is literally illegal, actively enforced, and in many places can be used to get significant damages via civil law, I hope we can agree that the default assumption has to be that on balance there's very little anti-XX discrimination in modern workplaces..

And a reminder: the numbers for "earnings in the 20-30 age bracket" favor women now.
(might be 20-29 or something else very close to 20-30).

We're a quarter of the way into the 21st century. I think it's time we stopped using data from 40 years ago (a time when these issues were being very actively addressed).

BTW I accept that there's a huge amount of bad data floating around these days, and a similarly huge number of people making claims based on the state of society in the late 1800's and early 1900's.
These days it's very hard to sort out the truth from the verisimilitude.

Given that, I don't automatically assume that possibly inaccurate claims like yours are intended to mislead.

But I prefer to facts to convenient beliefs, so sometimes I push back

 

[velociraptor]

I strongly doubt it's true in 2021, and certainly wouldn't believe it without actual data to back it up.

I saw this every day at my last employer. One of the reasons I left.

Given that, I don't automatically assume that possibly inaccurate claims like yours are intended to mislead.

It's the truth. Look it up. Still supported by factual data. Change is coming, but that is because the educatonal system has become hostile to young males. Will take time for that to filter through, but in some years there will be more professional women than men. (Also factual, look it up as well.)

 

[Hypnalis]

I saw this every day at my last employer. One of the reasons I left.

It's the truth. Look it up. Still supported by factual data. Change is coming, but that is because the educatonal system has become hostile to young males. Will take time for that to filter through, but in some years there will be more professional women than men. (Also factual, look it up as well.)

I've already explained why the burden of proof is on you.

But I'm quite surprised you're expecting good results from the existing hostility of the education system to young males.

You should take a look at Warren Farrell's 2018 book, or any similarly themed high-profile work.
There's at least one good interview on YouTube with Farrell about that book.

Treating boys and men as malfunctioning girls and women has already caused far too many problems IRL, and it's just going to get worse if we don't start working towards true equality (to be exact, equality of opportunity).

 

[velociraptor]

I've already explained why the burden of proof is on you.

I have rejected your explanation in case you didn't notice. I'm not your (unpaid) research assistant. Your inability or unwillingness to educate yourself on your own sounds like not my problem. Don't expect further comment from me on your trifle.

 

[Hypnalis]

I have rejected your explanation in case you didn't notice. I'm not your (unpaid) research assistant. Your inability or unwillingness to educate yourself on your own sounds like not my problem. Don't expect further comment from me on your trifle.

You made an unsupported claim that is intuitively unlikely. And you tried to support it with personal (and hence very small-scale) anecdotal evidence.

BTW
In AF I don't play the game of "thought-terminating cliches" like the "I'm not going to educate you" gambit above.
But just so you're aware, I do know how to play the game if I must.

 

[velociraptor]

But just so you're aware, I do know how to play the game if I must.

I don't play games with people like you as I have a life outside of this community. Good day to you.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

On a note that's somewhat related to the topic of the thread, another thing I hate is when I (or others) get called entitled for merely venting about having bad luck romantically.

I can only speak for myself...but the last thing I'd want is for an uninterested party to be forced into being with me (so no, I'm not "entitled"). What irks me is how difficult it is for me to find a partner who wants to be with me.

Which compels me to mention another point: I'm basically illiterate at telling the difference between niceness and interest.

There have probably been times through the years when another party was genuinely into me, yet I never did an askout because I couldn't tell if there was genuine interest or if they were "only being nice" (and I didn't want to risk the humiliation of doing an askout only to find out they were "only being nice")

I guarantee there are potential partners who want to be with me. I just wish there were a reliable way for me to identify who's into me vs who's "only being nice"

Additionally, there have been instances through the years where I never in my wildest dreams would have guessed a woman was into me, yet I found out through the grapevine she's into me (In other words, in addition to having a hard time telling whether her signs are mere niceness or genuine interest, sometimes I don't pick up on any signs  period)

There's no telling how many times through the years the scenario I just described (woman was into me, yet I failed to pick up on any signs at all) has happened without me being lucky enough to find out through the grapevine.

In a nutshell, even if my romantic opportunities aren't as abundant as Brad Pitt's romantic opportunities, there are romantic opportunities for me. I just have a hard time locating said opportunities.

I had the same problem. I did not want to come off as a needy jerk. I thought the way to create the opportunities to meet those who may be interested in me was involvement with outings groups. It was then that I met a woman who was hoping to meet a guy she could do outdoor activities with. She gently guided me into our relationship and I felt so safe with her that I could profess my love. Then it was off to the races for us and this year is our 47th together.

 

[Aspychata]

First of all harassment is alive and well in many work places, as it can be covert. You can encounter all types of harassment, so l agree to disagree @Hypnalis .
Women are taught to smile and be pleasant which often is mistaken for flirting. And l have to many men that just are shopping for any women who will pay attention to them, even when l am clearly with my partner. Let's admit it, it's tough for women and men. But move to LA, it's five women to every one man. Which l actually appreciated because l didn't deal with much sexual harassment there.

 

[velociraptor]

You can encounter all types of harassment, so l agree to disagree

It's depressing when you see a more qualified female candidate rejected for a position because of the concern she will become pregnant and inconvenience the company by needing time off to give birth and perhaps raise a kid. I personally saw this four times in my own area and it didn't help me professionally when I spoke out about it.

I had to give an exit interview when I left and I may have referred to the CEO of the company as being
sexist, with added descriptive details .

 

[Hypnalis]

@Aspychata

We're not agreeing to disagree /lol.
You just made an unsupported assertion about the frequency of illegal harassment of women in the workplace, and I'm laughing.

Let me try one. Please disprove (honestly, and you can't copy the arguments I used earlier because you've already claimed they're not valid):
Based on the evidence of the Amber Heard case (one solid example, and a huge number of people are aware of it) I hereby assert that all accusations made by women (except the special cases of "MeToo" because reasons /lol) are false.


The game of "Exaggerate, Embellish, Weaponize" is extremely toxic, and it's already had significant negative consequences for M/F interactions, not least in the workplace.