NT Question - New BF may have ASD traits?

[Matthias]

He may be autistic but that doesn't excuse his behavior. He should know that joking to his girlfriend that he'd choose his dog over her is unacceptable. I'd advise her to stay away from that guy. He sounds like a self-absorbed person who thinks he's better than everyone else who probably only dates her to feel better about himself. I doubt he cares much about other people's feelings based on the description provided.

 

[Matthias]

He may not have any problems with reading tone of voice either: is he laughing at her distress?

Probably. Some people who repressed their emotions find it humorous when other people get emotional about stuff that doesn't affect them at all.

 

[Major Tom]

Sounds like a jerk rather than the dreaded autism to me.

 

[WildCat]

My initial reaction was yours, but then as she started to describe some of his other characteristics, it made me wonder if he could just be clueless, rather than intentionally mocking or trying to hurt her. "Laughing at her distress" is a good way of putting it, and that really says it all, I think.

Yeah, you have a point there about his other characteristics. I'm not certain, just my first impression based on what you wrote. I'd say that everything should be taken into consideration first and then weighed out before jumping to any solid conclusions.

Sure, he could very well be clueless rather than purposely malicious, but I think it would take more time to really suss it out. If he continues on with this behavior after a good talk between the both of them, there could be some merit to what you and others here are saying.

 

[Creep]

Hi Everyone,

I came on this site because everyone has always given great feedback. I am making an inquiry for a friend of mine. There's a lot I don't know. She's just getting to know him herself.

I've dated someone with suspected Asperger's, so feel pretty confident in much of my knowledge. When we started out, there were lots of hurt feelings (mine) and misunderstandings.

So, my friend just started dating a man. She's feeling perplexed about some of his behavior. I recognize some of it as similar to what happened b/w my boyfriend and me in the early stages of our relationship.

It's tough for us NT's to decipher the intent of someone's behavior when they don't respond the way we expect.

I'll give you a few examples and hopefully you can provide some insight/opinion on it.

My friend finds that her boyfriend is frequently "joking", but 1) she often doesn't feel his jokes are humorous and 2) she feels hurt by things he says to her. #2 could be construed as emotional abuse and controlling behavior, but it's hard to know.

Anyhow, apparently he makes "jokes" - like commenting that her bathing suit top looked like she bought it at Baby Gap (guess it was too small) and pointing out she needed to shave her legs, when she had just shaved them that day. Also, they were about to go out in public. She was wearing sweats and he asked, "You're going out like that?"

One day he made a "joke" that he would choose his dog over going out with her. According to him, he was joking. When she broached the subject over the phone and told him that it hurt her feelings, his response was to laugh and laugh. She became enraged and hung up on him. He claims that her tone sounded exactly the way she sounds when she's joking. He responded to this by becoming angry for being hurt over something that didn't seem worth getting upset over.

My thoughts about this one: even if someone on the spectrum struggles with reading tone of voice, by the age of 39 he should have had enough life experience to discern a joking vs. upset tone. Also, if he were on the spectrum, it seems he would have had past experiences of inadvertently hurting people's feelings. I would think he could learn from these past experiences that maybe he should take her seriously.

Apparently, his sister-in-law doesn't care for him because he's too blunt. My friend says he is, indeed, quite blunt and direct. I don't believe he has many, if any, male friends. Was married for many years and his ex accused him of being "immature".

My friend says that she feels their conversations are superficial and she is finding it hard to connect with him like she had before (initially their romance was whirlwind, where he did and said all the right things). She says it feels "transactional" and they don't really delve into more intimate conversations.

What are you thoughts? Can you think of things she can look for or discuss with him to get a better idea of what his intentions are? I'm worried that she's getting herself into an abusive relationship where he discounts her feelings and mocks her with the motive to hurt.

Any advice would be welcome.

Hi sisselcakes. Your “nt” friend sounds desperate. She might be better served examining her own neurology rather than diagnosing her boyfriend. We can’t change other people. We can’t even change ourselves most of the time. Sorry to be so cynical about “romance”, but that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[cnn]

"an abusive relationship where he discounts her feelings and mocks her with the motive to hurt."

Ok, it seems today is my emotional abuse day since this is the second thread I bump into within the same issue.

A relationship is potentially a tricky situation for me and as things get more intimate, I tend to get more and more cautious. I am not sure if it is a power issue or self protection, but my focus would be not to get hurt. I am well aware that this is not the best attitude within a relationship, actually any social situation since I fail to keep a mask unlike most of the Autists. Unlike you, I do not take people "good" by default.

However, even if he is N whatever, if she is not peaceful or happy, she should better walk away and learn to keep people at a certain distance until all the checks and balances will be exhausted.

Unless someone is damn strong enough and determined to handle one's (i do not exclude myself) troubles, there is no point to pay such a price for something temporary.

 

[Juliettaa]

What amazes me is why women stay with men like this. It's 2020, women have choices, we don't have to tolerate abusive behaviour.

I also find it offensive when NT's assume the abusive behaviour is due to someone potentially being on the autistic spectrum. Being autistic does not mean we are abusive.

Your friend should show him the door. His behaviour has more red flags than a communist parade.

 

[Stardust Parade]

There’s no way to diagnose someone on the internet. How are we supposed to know?

 

[sisselcakes]

To me this fellow simply crossed lines I would not cross. At least never with a girlfriend. You just don't say things like that- even in jest.

Unless perhaps they relish dominating someone into a form of submission. For some, power is more gratifying than sex or love. I suspect it involves issues that are beyond any gap between Neurotypical and Autistic people.

THIS! "Unless perhaps they relish dominating someone into a form of submission."

After talking to my friend some more, I'm realizing this is it. It's hard to see her go through this because I just know the next incident is coming. Luckily, she isn't victim type. It will take her a bit to get away, I think; but she will eventually admit to herself what's happening.

 

[sisselcakes]

There's no way to diagnose someone through the internet and with no professional opinion.

The conversations are superficial = thanks for thinking ASD.
The jokes are bad = thanks for thinking ASD.
A person being abruptly direct = thanks for thinking ASD.
Someone being a jerk = thanks for thinking ASD.

That's all I've got to say.
There are many things that can be going on. No one can diagnose him on the internet.
Similar behaviours can come from different causes.
What you describe sounds like this person isn't well intentioned, but again, I don't know him. No one can say from your post.

I truly apologize if anything I said came across as insulting. I may have used the wrong words. Let me clarify:

The conversations are superficial = thanks for thinking ASD.

I should have written that the conversations are more information-focused. They lack depth in terms of discussing emotions and his "getting" where she is coming from. Now it seems that he isn't unable to. It seems intentional.

The jokes are bad = thanks for thinking ASD.

Humor is influenced by the way we see the world. We don't know whether she finds the jokes unfunny because they aren't actually jokes (but jabs) or if it's because they experience the world differently. My bf is on the spectrum and he cracks me up.

A person being abruptly direct = thanks for thinking ASD.

My bf is very direct and straightforward, and sometimes says things in earnest that come across as critical. In my experience, and based on what I've read, this is general trait that many on the spectrum share. It's not insulting to point out a commonality. At least, that wasn't my intention.

Someone being a jerk = thanks for thinking ASD.

You interpreted that I said people with ASD are jerks. Anyone can be a jerk.

To clarify, we aren't trying to diagnose, only trying to understand his intentions. If he is inadvertently hurting her, then there's a chance they can work it out. If it's intentionally abusive, that's a whole different story.

 

[sisselcakes]

There’s no way to diagnose someone on the internet. How are we supposed to know?

Not trying to diagnose. Trying to determine the bf's intent when he says things she interprets as hurtful. When I first started dating my bf, he would say things that I would interpret as hurtful. After getting to know each other better and learning about ASD, we were able to negotiate our communication in such a way that there were fewer misunderstandings.

Based on the feedback from people on here, and my intuitive sense of what's going on with my friend's bf, I'm leaning toward him just being an a$$. She needs to dump him. Hopefully she will work through this and get out.

 

[sisselcakes]

What amazes me is why women stay with men like this. It's 2020, women have choices, we don't have to tolerate abusive behaviour.

I also find it offensive when NT's assume the abusive behaviour is due to someone potentially being on the autistic spectrum. Being autistic does not mean we are abusive.

Your friend should show him the door.

"His behaviour has more red flags than a communist parade." Ha ha. Good one!

It's hard to understand why people tolerate abusive behavior. People in my field (social worker) have to take mandatory training in domestic violence. When you learn about the dynamic that occurs, it becomes much more understandable. It shows you the subtle techniques the abuser uses to create the dynamic, how they wear down the partner's self-esteem and create dependency. Then it makes it very hard for the (usually) woman to leave.

I'm sorry if what I wrote suggested I think people on the spectrum are abusive. To the contrary, actually. I haven't experienced his behavior, only what my friend told me. She's crazy about this guy and it seemed really hopeful at first for her, but then she starts telling me these things about him that scream abuse.

We were just trying to figure out if his observed behavior could be due to communication issues or if his behavior is motivated by trying to establish dominance. I'm leaning toward intentional!

 

[sisselcakes]

I would agree that he is not blunt just mean. Based on your examples he just seems mean. Many time when I have been seen as rude it's for pointing out things like observations. Asking somebody "if they are really going out like that" is not being blunt it's being judgmental.

A good way to tell is asking yourself "is this pointing out an uncomfortable truth or is it a comment based on subjective judgement?"

Early in my relationship with my bf he would say things that "stung" and would take me aback. He would openly express his observations. I felt like he was being critical and possibly abusive. After getting to know him better, and reading about ASD, I realized that wasn't his intention. I was able to explain how I take these comments and he stopped saying them.

I liked something I read once in a book on mixed NT/ASD relationships. The husband would make blunt comments that hurt his wife. She learned to ask him "Did you intend to hurt me?" Of course, the answer was always "no". She was able to cope with his communication style and not react to his statements.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[sisselcakes]

Yes, sorry.
That being said, yes, there are often misunderstandings and misinterpretations in behaviours. How the person reacts to that is about his/her personality. There's no reason to allow a behaviour that's hurting others unless you're willing to and unless the person really can't manage otherwise. This goes both ways.
For example I can be abrupt in saying something and in the way I say it without realizing it was something that would impact the other one (it's possible that I simply don't get why the other one would be impacted). Choosing to apologize and caring about it if the person tells me I was offending is my personality. I don't like hurting others, but I can make a mistake. Who doesn't? An other person can choose to not care and continue, ASD or not. That's personal.
I wouldn't make jokes about the body of anyone, and to be honest, I don't care about it. Never understood why people care about other people's bodies (?). An other person would. But at 39 if the person isn't retarded, it's not even about ASD, it's just rude. Not knowing that at 15, why not. After a while, I doubt the person doesn't get that it impacts others. ASD or not... still a jerk.

RE: "Choosing to apologize and caring about it if the person tells me I was offending is my personality. I don't like hurting others, but I can make a mistake. Who doesn't? An other person can choose to not care and continue, ASD or not."

When my friend told me that she expressed she felt hurt that he had made a comment about preferring to spend time with his dog and he responded by laughing, this is the point where my gut told me he's just a jerk.

Still, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, I thought his excuse "your voice had the same tone as you do when you are joking" could be his misinterpreting her tone of voice.

Having said that, I realize any decent person (regardless of their neurology) who cares about another would be concerned if they inadvertently hurt the other and wouldn't laugh! That was the one thing, plus people's responses on here, made me realize he's just plain mean!

In past when my ASD bf said or did something that hurt me, he may have responded matter-of-factly, but he would never laugh. Once he realized I was really hurt, he would respond in a nurturing way.

I appreciate your input!

 

[Els]

I truly apologize if anything I said came across as insulting. I may have used the wrong words. Let me clarify:

The conversations are superficial = thanks for thinking ASD.

I should have written that the conversations are more information-focused. They lack depth in terms of discussing emotions and his "getting" where she is coming from. Now it seems that he isn't unable to. It seems intentional.

The jokes are bad = thanks for thinking ASD.

Humor is influenced by the way we see the world. We don't know whether she finds the jokes unfunny because they aren't actually jokes (but jabs) or if it's because they experience the world differently. My bf is on the spectrum and he cracks me up.

A person being abruptly direct = thanks for thinking ASD.

My bf is very direct and straightforward, and sometimes says things in earnest that come across as critical. In my experience, and based on what I've read, this is general trait that many on the spectrum share. It's not insulting to point out a commonality. At least, that wasn't my intention.

Someone being a jerk = thanks for thinking ASD.

You interpreted that I said people with ASD are jerks. Anyone can be a jerk.

To clarify, we aren't trying to diagnose, only trying to understand his intentions. If he is inadvertently hurting her, then there's a chance they can work it out. If it's intentionally abusive, that's a whole different story.

Sorry, I replied a bit aggressively. But I stick to the position that those elements aren't necessarily directly connected to ASD and could occur for whatever other reason. 99% of people don't have ASD and can behave as described, so given the percentage, it's unlikely.
If it's about understanding his intention, then I honestly can't - I understand other people's intentions extremely badly. I don't believe it's not intentional as I wrote in the next posts, I also wrote why, but what do I know? I honestly can't help more than that. I personally would get rid of this person and go on with my life, ASD or not. It's about what you want to deal with and what you don't. It's a personal choice.

 

[sisselcakes]

I understand your concern, but again, no one can help you saying "this is definitely ASD" through a post on a forum and without knowing the person.
This person seems like he's not behaving well with others, I don't see the link with ASD.
Some ASD persons are well behaved, others not so well. What you describe is about personality, ASD or not.

ASD people don't necessarily have superficial conversations, I don't see the link.
ASD people don't necessarily make bad jokes about others.
ASD people aren't necessarily abruptly direct.
ASD people aren't necessarily behaving badly towards others.
A person does that. Not autism. Especially at 39.
A person with autism can care about not hurting others and avoid doing so. A person with autism can not care about hurting others and keep on doing so. A NT person as well. It's not linked.

I was not trying to figure out if he has ASD. We were trying to figure out his motives- whether or not his behavior was with the intent to be hurtful. I explained my observations of him in a response to another poster, so not going to re-write them here. Anyhow, thanks for your response. I agree with your "assessment".

 

[sisselcakes]

Sorry, I replied a bit aggressively. But I stick to the position that those elements aren't necessarily directly connected to ASD and could occur for whatever other reason. 99% of people don't have ASD and can behave as described, so given the percentage, it's unlikely.
If it's about understanding his intention, then I honestly can't - I understand other people's intentions extremely badly. I don't believe it's not intentional as I wrote in the next posts, I also wrote why, but what do I know? I honestly can't help more than that. I personally would get rid of this person and go on with my life, ASD or not. It's about what you want to deal with and what you don't. It's a personal choice.

i didn't find it aggressive. I'm sure people get stereotyped and misunderstood and get sick and tired of others making assumptions about ASD. I try to be careful with my words, but I get how they could come across as generalizations, even though I don't mean to.

It's funny you say "I understand other people's intentions extremely badly". My bf is the same. He tends to look more at the outcome of a situation, rather than consider the motivation behind the actions. I'm not sure if he has a hard time with it, he's not interested in the motives, or if the outcome is more important to him. I think I'm pretty good about reading intentions and really take them into account in my relationships.

I actually told my bf about my friend's situation and he was appalled by the way the guy has treated her.

 

[Els]

i didn't find it aggressive. I'm sure people get stereotyped and misunderstood and get sick and tired of others making assumptions about ASD. I try to be careful with my words, but I get how they could come across as generalizations, even though I don't mean to.

It's funny you say "I understand other people's intentions extremely badly". My bf is the same. He tends to look more at the outcome of a situation, rather than consider the motivation behind the actions. I'm not sure if he has a hard time with it, he's not interested in the motives, or if the outcome is more important to him. I think I'm pretty good about reading intentions and really take them into account in my relationships.

I actually told my bf about my friend's situation and he was appalled by the way the guy has treated her.

It's nice if you both complete each other

Yes, even with ASD, the behaviour you describe doesn't look right.
I also like to try to consider other people's intention (althrough I don't get complex stuffs) :
If you step on my foot with or without intention is different, I will react differently. But honestly, if you do that everyday and maybe even many times a day, with or without intention and you're 39, I won't care about the intention. If your friend suffers from this person's behaviour, she must consider that to be a valid concern, intentional or not. Then again, it's a personal choice. That's really all I can advise about, I don't know them and don't want to intervene either.

Good luck