NT Question - New BF may have ASD traits?

[sisselcakes]

Hi Everyone,

I came on this site because everyone has always given great feedback. I am making an inquiry for a friend of mine. There's a lot I don't know. She's just getting to know him herself.

I've dated someone with suspected Asperger's, so feel pretty confident in much of my knowledge. When we started out, there were lots of hurt feelings (mine) and misunderstandings.

So, my friend just started dating a man. She's feeling perplexed about some of his behavior. I recognize some of it as similar to what happened b/w my boyfriend and me in the early stages of our relationship.

It's tough for us NT's to decipher the intent of someone's behavior when they don't respond the way we expect.

I'll give you a few examples and hopefully you can provide some insight/opinion on it.

My friend finds that her boyfriend is frequently "joking", but 1) she often doesn't feel his jokes are humorous and 2) she feels hurt by things he says to her. #2 could be construed as emotional abuse and controlling behavior, but it's hard to know.

Anyhow, apparently he makes "jokes" - like commenting that her bathing suit top looked like she bought it at Baby Gap (guess it was too small) and pointing out she needed to shave her legs, when she had just shaved them that day. Also, they were about to go out in public. She was wearing sweats and he asked, "You're going out like that?"

One day he made a "joke" that he would choose his dog over going out with her. According to him, he was joking. When she broached the subject over the phone and told him that it hurt her feelings, his response was to laugh and laugh. She became enraged and hung up on him. He claims that her tone sounded exactly the way she sounds when she's joking. He responded to this by becoming angry for being hurt over something that didn't seem worth getting upset over.

My thoughts about this one: even if someone on the spectrum struggles with reading tone of voice, by the age of 39 he should have had enough life experience to discern a joking vs. upset tone. Also, if he were on the spectrum, it seems he would have had past experiences of inadvertently hurting people's feelings. I would think he could learn from these past experiences that maybe he should take her seriously.

Apparently, his sister-in-law doesn't care for him because he's too blunt. My friend says he is, indeed, quite blunt and direct. I don't believe he has many, if any, male friends. Was married for many years and his ex accused him of being "immature".

My friend says that she feels their conversations are superficial and she is finding it hard to connect with him like she had before (initially their romance was whirlwind, where he did and said all the right things). She says it feels "transactional" and they don't really delve into more intimate conversations.

What are you thoughts? Can you think of things she can look for or discuss with him to get a better idea of what his intentions are? I'm worried that she's getting herself into an abusive relationship where he discounts her feelings and mocks her with the motive to hurt.

Any advice would be welcome.

 

[tree]

Sounds more like "New BF may be a jerk"....

That is to say, a person who is amused by the discomfort of others.
Who likes to make himself feel big by trying to make others feel small.

 

[Judge]

Doesn't sound "blunt" so much as abusive.

 

[Magna]

I'll preface my response first by saying that I have a healthy amount of skepticism whenever anyone on autism forums posts that they "think" their partner is autistic or someone they know thinks the person is autistic and presume it to be fact. This preface is nothing against you personally; I'm speaking in general terms based on my experience reading similar posts for a long time. The other reason such skepticism is necessary is because you may or may not know that there is a common tendency out there for people to jump to conclusions up to and even demonizing autistic people by lumping in people they "think" (ie not formally diagnosed) are autistic into a category of abusive people. Up until recently there was even an autism hate website masquerading as something legitimate with a focus on how terrible partners with Aspergers (suspected) are; thankfully that site is now defunct.

It's a dangerous and inaccurate stereotype to equate autism with relationship toxicity or worse, abuse. Again, I'm not saying that you are doing that, but please know the seriousness that autistics face in being affected by such stereotypes. I've seen posts in another autism forum where the NT person posting was doing so with an obvious inaccurate perspective that it was assumed that autistic men were terrible relationship partners that should be avoided.

I am an autistic man who has been married for 18 years. I am a family man and my wife loves me and considers me to be kind, loyal and dedicated even though I may have some different characteristics and challenges than a typical NT man.

This man you write about may or may not be autistic. In fact, he may not be autistic at all. Has your friend asked him if he thinks he's autistic? There are scores of narcissistic, insensitive, self-centered people out there of both sexes that are not autistic.

I would say she should discuss her feelings with him and they should communicate together. If he doesn't seem to change and she doesn't want to change, then given they're still only at the dating stage, perhaps they're not compatible.

 

[WildCat]

Clear case of jerk from your description and a possible red flag, spectrum or not. I seriously doubt ASD has anything to do with this at all, but I'm not a doc.

He may not have any problems with reading tone of voice either: is he laughing at her distress?

 

[Fino]

Your friend has a high tolerance for abuse. Why is she still with him?

 

[sisselcakes]

Sounds more like "New BF may be a jerk"....

That is to say, a person who is amused by the discomfort of others.
Who likes to make himself feel big by trying to make others feel small.

Okay, honestly, that was my initial intuitive reaction. Sometimes abusers like to discount the other person's experience/perception and I wondered if he was trying to get off the hook by saying he was "joking". Thanks for your feedback.

 

[sisselcakes]

Clear case of jerk from your description and a possible red flag, spectrum or not. I seriously doubt ASD has anything to do with this at all, but I'm not a doc.

He may not have any problems with reading tone of voice either: is he laughing at her distress?

My initial reaction was yours, but then as she started to describe some of his other characteristics, it made me wonder if he could just be clueless, rather than intentionally mocking or trying to hurt her. "Laughing at her distress" is a good way of putting it, and that really says it all, I think.

 

[sisselcakes]

Your friend has a high tolerance for abuse. Why is she still with him?

So, women like us have a deficit in that #1 we want to believe all people are good (we are nurturing and maternal. We want to care for others. It's a good thing, but it sets us up too) and #2 if we are extremely hopeful about a relationship, we are excellent at rationalizing things and looking for reasons for certain behavior and wondering if we are misinterpreting things. I mean, we are pros at this especially if the beginning of the relationship was wonderful. Finally #3, we don't want to face disappointment. We build up a fantasy in our minds and it's really hard to let go of.

Guys who abuse are pros at it. They don't start right away. They wine and dine you and make you feel like there's no one in the world like you. Then they start to show their real self, chipping away at your self-worth. She hasn't been with him that long and it seems like he's starting to let the façade down.

She did tell me that the phone incident "felt" like a bit of a power struggle, so that says something. I'm not feeling good about this and I think she's at risk, but I'm trying to be supportive and hope she will see who he is (if, in fact, this is what's happening).

 

[sisselcakes]

Doesn't sound "blunt" so much as abusive.

I value your response. You've always pegged things from what I've read in the past. My initial feeling was that he was being abusive and trying to "one up" her, but then I started wondering if there could be other reasons for his behavior.

I do find it hard to believe that he could have gotten this far professionally and otherwise if he actually were this unable to read other people and communicate normally.

 

[sisselcakes]

I'll preface my response first by saying that I have a healthy amount of skepticism whenever anyone on autism forums posts that they "think" their partner is autistic or someone they know thinks the person is autistic and presume it to be fact. This preface is nothing against you personally; I'm speaking in general terms based on my experience reading similar posts for a long time. The other reason such skepticism is necessary is because you may or may not know that there is a common tendency out there for people to jump to conclusions up to and even demonizing autistic people by lumping in people they "think" (ie not formally diagnosed) are autistic into a category of abusive people. Up until recently there was even an autism hate website masquerading as something legitimate with a focus on how terrible partners with Aspergers (suspected) are; thankfully that site is now defunct.

It's a dangerous and inaccurate stereotype to equate autism with relationship toxicity or worse, abuse. Again, I'm not saying that you are doing that, but please know the seriousness that autistics face in being affected by such stereotypes. I've seen posts in another autism forum where the NT person posting was doing so with an obvious inaccurate perspective that it was assumed that autistic men were terrible relationship partners that should be avoided.

I am an autistic man who has been married for 18 years. I am a family man and my wife loves me and considers me to be kind, loyal and dedicated even though I may have some different characteristics and challenges than a typical NT man.

This man you write about may or may not be autistic. In fact, he may not be autistic at all. Has your friend asked him if he thinks he's autistic? There are scores of narcissistic, insensitive, self-centered people out there of both sexes that are not autistic.

I would say she should discuss her feelings with him and they should communicate together. If he doesn't seem to change and she doesn't want to change, then given they're still only at the dating stage, perhaps they're not compatible.

Hi.

With regard to what you wrote about demonizing people on the spectrum, I really hope it didn't come across that way. Having said that, I'm sure it does sometimes come across that way from well-meaning non ASD people (or sometimes not so well-meaning). I'm truly inquiring out of curiously to try to help my friend with this guy.

Thank you for educating me about others who have made sweeping generalizations about autistic men being "this way" or "that way". It's a good thing to keep in mind. I agree, that people too often make assumptions about people based on a diagnosis or condition and group people together. Oftentimes the individual is lost.

In my case, I was so perplexed by my boyfriend's behaviors and perceptions, I needed to have a better grasp on common traits so to better understand.

Like I mentioned in another response, my friend and I are people who expect all people to have good intentions (naïve, I know). When it seems they don't, we look for other possible reasons for their behavior.

She had so much hope for this match, but it seems to be devolving rapidly. She clearly needs to address this with him. Seems like being direct is the best option. I'm glad you and others have written your opinions because I'm trying to support her in figuring out how she wants to proceed.

 

[sisselcakes]

Sounds more like "New BF may be a jerk"....

That is to say, a person who is amused by the discomfort of others.
Who likes to make himself feel big by trying to make others feel small.

Sadly, that was my worry and my initial reaction. Seems like others are picking up on the same thing.

 

[Magna]

Hi.

With regard to what you wrote about demonizing people on the spectrum, I really hope it didn't come across that way. Having said that, I'm sure it does sometimes come across that way from well-meaning non ASD people (or sometimes not so well-meaning). I'm truly inquiring out of curiously to try to help my friend with this guy.

Thank you for educating me about others who have made sweeping generalizations about autistic men being "this way" or "that way". It's a good thing to keep in mind. I agree, that people too often make assumptions about people based on a diagnosis or condition and group people together. Oftentimes the individual is lost.

In my case, I was so perplexed by my boyfriend's behaviors and perceptions, I needed to have a better grasp on common traits so to better understand.

Like I mentioned in another response, my friend and I are people who expect all people to have good intentions (naïve, I know). When it seems they don't, we look for other possible reasons for their behavior.

She had so much hope for this match, but it seems to be devolving rapidly. She clearly needs to address this with him. Seems like being direct is the best option. I'm glad you and others have written your opinions because I'm trying to support her in figuring out how she wants to proceed.

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad that my response to you was taken appropriately in that I did not think you were intending on stereotyping or demonizing autistic people.

I share your naivety in a similar way in that I tend to believe that all autistic people have kind hearts but I know that there can be unkind people regardless of their neurotype. Even so, I do think it would be highly unusual for an autistic person to be vindictive, sadistic and actually derive pleasure out of someone else's hurt feelings like you describe your friend's boyfriend to be.

 

[Judge]

To me this fellow simply crossed lines I would not cross. At least never with a girlfriend. You just don't say things like that- even in jest.

Unless perhaps they relish dominating someone into a form of submission. For some, power is more gratifying than sex or love. I suspect it involves issues that are beyond any gap between Neurotypical and Autistic people.

 

[Els]

There's no way to diagnose someone through the internet and with no professional opinion.

The conversations are superficial = thanks for thinking ASD.
The jokes are bad = thanks for thinking ASD.
A person being abruptly direct = thanks for thinking ASD.
Someone being a jerk = thanks for thinking ASD.

That's all I've got to say.
There are many things that can be going on. No one can diagnose him on the internet.
Similar behaviours can come from different causes.
What you describe sounds like this person isn't well intentioned, but again, I don't know him. No one can say from your post.

 

[Magna]

There's no way to diagnose someone through the internet and with no professional opinion.

The conversations are superficial = thanks for thinking ASD.
The jokes are bad = thanks for thinking ASD.
A person being abruptly direct = thanks for thinking ASD.
Someone being a jerk = thanks for thinking ASD.

That's all I've got to say.
There are many things that can be going on. No one can diagnose him on the internet.

I'm not good with identifying sarcasm. I'm assuming though that you're being sarcastic, correct?

 

[Els]

I'm not good with identifying sarcasm. I'm assuming though that you're being sarcastic, correct?

I understand your concern, but again, no one can help you saying "this is definitely ASD" through a post on a forum and without knowing the person.
This person seems like he's not behaving well with others, I don't see the link with ASD.
Some ASD persons are well behaved, others not so well. What you describe is about personality, ASD or not.

ASD people don't necessarily have superficial conversations, I don't see the link.
ASD people don't necessarily make bad jokes about others.
ASD people aren't necessarily abruptly direct.
ASD people aren't necessarily behaving badly towards others.
A person does that. Not autism. Especially at 39.
A person with autism can care about not hurting others and avoid doing so. A person with autism can not care about hurting others and keep on doing so. A NT person as well. It's not linked.

 

[Magna]

^ Thank you for clarifying, Els. I was thinking that's what you meant, but I wasn't sure.

 

[Els]

^ Thank you for clarifying, Els. I was thinking that's what you meant, but I wasn't sure.

Yes, sorry.
That being said, yes, there are often misunderstandings and misinterpretations in behaviours. How the person reacts to that is about his/her personality. There's no reason to allow a behaviour that's hurting others unless you're willing to and unless the person really can't manage otherwise. This goes both ways.
For example I can be abrupt in saying something and in the way I say it without realizing it was something that would impact the other one (it's possible that I simply don't get why the other one would be impacted). Choosing to apologize and caring about it if the person tells me I was offending is my personality. I don't like hurting others, but I can make a mistake. Who doesn't? An other person can choose to not care and continue, ASD or not. That's personal.
I wouldn't make jokes about the body of anyone, and to be honest, I don't care about it. Never understood why people care about other people's bodies (?). An other person would. But at 39 if the person isn't retarded, it's not even about ASD, it's just rude. Not knowing that at 15, why not. After a while, I doubt the person doesn't get that it impacts others. ASD or not... still a jerk.

 

[PastelPetals]

I would agree that he is not blunt just mean. Based on your examples he just seems mean. Many time when I have been seen as rude it's for pointing out things like observations. Asking somebody "if they are really going out like that" is not being blunt it's being judgmental.

A good way to tell is asking yourself "is this pointing out an uncomfortable truth or is it a comment based on subjective judgement?"