Neurotypical in an LTR with an Aspergers man - Advice?

[luminoff]

Hi there! I'm new to the forum, and after scouring a few different forums, felt the commentary on here was the most intelligent and level headed. So I come to you with a bit of a back story, so bear with me.

I am a 26 year old gay man who has been in a long term relationship with a 38 year old man with, what I believe from my own diagnosis proposed to him, Aspergers Syndrome. We met online just over a year ago, and since then we have faced many ups and downs, many hurdles, but an altogether fantastic and overwhelmingly positive relationship. I could never ask for anything more.

The back story on me is, I have officially diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. To those Aspies out there reading this, you're probably bug eyed at hearing this, if you know what it is, and how insane a proposition it is to consider someone with BPD in a relationship with someone who has Aspergers. On paper, it just doesn't work. And it didn't at the start. I came into this relationship following a history of intensely chaotic and abusive relationships prior, rife with cheating, lies, and physical abuse. I was ruined at the point of meeting my current partner. I saw my prospects as hopeless; fuelled moreso by having only recently at the time been diagnosed with BPD. BPD, by definition, rules me out for ever having a healthy, fulfilling interpersonal relationship.

And then I met him.

He is gentle, and quiet. He was mysterious to me. He had an essence that I had yet experienced in another. And at the same time, he gave me no "high". There was, and has never been, sparks flying, or an overwhelming sensation of love and romance. He is an accomplished economist, having worked his way up on the merit of sheer intellect, for he has little if any ability to work the social norms to get what he needs. He is honest to a fault, one of the most intensely moralistic individuals I have ever met. He cannot lie, and when he does lie, it is so innocuous and innocent that I can barely be bothered by it. He is everything that I need as someone trying to work through a Borderline disordered mind, full of mistrust, suspicion, dangerous attachment, manipulation, and so on. That all being said, there are problems. Not problems that would have me walk away from this, not at all, but problems that cause me pangs of sadness from time to time. For the first six months, these problems greatly affected our relationship. But as I have told him time and time again, our greatest asset is awareness and the ability to communicate effectively. I have a very sound Theory of Mind, one of the perks of BPD I guess. But I digress, I need advice on the following issues...

He cannot say he loves me. This was very upsetting to realise, and is also what led me to discover Aspergers. It has now reached the point where I no longer care so much, but still baffles me, and also, in a way, impresses me greatly. To this day I will tell him often that I love him, to which he will squeeze my hand, or say "Thank you" in the most sincerest way. He cannot say these words to his parents, or has ever said it in his life.

Speaking of parents, I have never met them, nor will ever meet them. I will never meet his very few friends, which he terms "ex colleagues", or current one. I will never meet his family, I will only ever no him as representative of his existence. It's surreal to think of spending a life with someone in this way, but again, I have come to terms with this because of the great positives he brings to my life.

He does not compliment, and if he does, it is a factual statement.

He does not enjoy tongue kissing, so I stopped doing it. He does not enjoy light touch or stroking of the skin, so now I squeeze his arm or "press" his skin, which I believe he appreciates.

We spend four nights a week together, on scheduled days, ensuring a day apart so he may re-energise. I am quite emotionally extreme and if we drink together, I sometimes cry or act aloof, so it's a given he needs that time. On the off days he calls at precisely 7PM, and we will talk for half an hour. I set this for his piece of mind, and often we go over time, but he never complains, and I always try to ensure I stick to the half hour.

Sex...after much soft discussion which I pushed to more intense questioning, I have come to understand that it's all too much, and he'd rather pleasure himself without the human contact involved. After reading countless books and resources covering the very little information there is on Aspergers and sex, this is still the one thing I am struggling to deal with, especially as of late. We were having sex 3-4 times a week until recently, when I felt it unfair that I was continuously, for lack of a better term, forcing him to have sex. He would always oblige, and it has always been fantastic, but it was because I initiated it, he never would. So I told him three weeks ago that from now on, I will leave it to him to initiate. If he wants to have sex, great, if not, that' okay.

We have not had sex together since.

There are other things. Issues with sleeping in the same bed together, the mere presence of someone else beside him makes sleep all the more difficult than it already was for him. His incessant orderliness and cleanliness sometimes makes me feel slovenly or immature. He relies heavily on vitamins and supplements to keep his mind in a state where it can function without having a meltdown. We cannot have arguments as he simply cannot engage in them without shutting down, and it leaves me feeling devastated and terribly guilty for causing him physical anguish.

But overall, he a fantastic individual. He remembers everything I ask of him. He listens to me talk about everything. He understands me, in no way anyone has before. He doesn't buy into my manipulations. He ensures, through his own natural self, that it lies within me to love myself, and reassure myself, as he will not do that, but will respect me and treat me with utter kindness all the same. He buys me a new toothbrush when the one I had frays, cooks me wonderful meals, holds my hand in a way that renders all other romantic intentions meaningless. He is quite simply the light of my life. I wake up every morning thankful for knowing him. Thankful for having the chance to change myself so fundamentally because of someone else's presence. Things he is, and things he does, they would be deal breakers, absolute deal breakers, for most. But for me, it's helped me live in peace, to calm my mind. He has been the greatest therapy I could ever have hoped for, and I honestly believe people with Aspergers Syndrome are the antidote for a chaotic, narcissistic, dirty society we find ourselves in. He is the truth for me, in a world filled with dishonesty.

So I ask of you, what ways can I further make him feel comfortable. This relationship is intensely difficult for him, even if he doesn't say so, I know it does. I am quite an intense person, but an understanding one. And that's why, I believe, he appreciates me in whatever way he is able to do so. So any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Ylva]

I think doctors are way off when they say that people with personality disorders or other kinds of disorders can never have healthy relationships. It's kind of setting people up for failure. Clearly they mean, "I have a picture in my head of what I consider to be a normal person, everyone you'll ever meet is either like that or a person who can't have a healthy relationship with that picture either. It follows that two people whom the picture doesn't like can't possibly be compatible with each other." Nonsensical logic, but there it is.

To accomodate sensory hypersensitivities, be economical with sensory input. Sensory overload is itself uncomfortable enough to give bad associations. You can change associations like that, but he has probably learned to dislike certain things since early childhood. I don't know either of you well enough to tell you how to go about it, but from what you say maybe he can.

 

[wyverary]

First of all, bravo for your sensitivity, and for your awareness of both his needs and yours.

It sounds to me like you are doing many things right. Respecting his boundaries, giving him the space he needs. You clearly love him and are doing everything you can to make sure he is comfortable in your relationship.

I guess what I really need to ask is...is there anything, that you haven't mentioned, that YOU want that you feel is lacking? By all you say it seems like you are managing your BPD tendencies extremely well, but, at the same time, you need to consider what YOU need from HIM, and whether he should be expected to make similar accommodations. Relationships are a two-way street, and at some point, you have to meet in the middle.

Best of luck. If you have more you'd like to add, or more questions, please feel free.

wyv

 

[luminoff]

First of all, bravo for your sensitivity, and for your awareness of both his needs and yours.

It sounds to me like you are doing many things right. Respecting his boundaries, giving him the space he needs. You clearly love him and are doing everything you can to make sure he is comfortable in your relationship.

I guess what I really need to ask is...is there anything, that you haven't mentioned, that YOU want that you feel is lacking? By all you say it seems like you are managing your BPD tendencies extremely well, but, at the same time, you need to consider what YOU need from HIM, and whether he should be expected to make similar accommodations. Relationships are a two-way street, and at some point, you have to meet in the middle.

Best of luck. If you have more you'd like to add, or more questions, please feel free.

wyv

Thank you for reply and input, much appreciated Because of my BPD, I have to, for my benefit and for others who can be greatly affected by the BPD trauma that can be inflicted on them, second guess every thought, action, and intent I have. Because everything I think, act, and intend is based on crippling abandonment fears and lack of sense of self, I am very careful of asking for things or making demands...because what I ask and demand may be to my detriment, or to, as I say, placate the Borderline Monster within.

The problem with BPD is those with it rarely refuse to see just how skewed the world view is from a borderline mind. I will often ask him "Is what I'm asking of you irrational, or illogical? If so, I'd like you to tell me, because this helps me separate my false view from a healthy, realist view". This is how we communicate effectively. I have learned a great deal about myself, and how to manage my emotions, self soothe, and learn distress tolerance through his Asperger traits. I threw myself at this relationship like tearing off multiple, big bandaids. I knew, deep down, that the things I wanted or complained about - attachment, validation, reassurance, professions of love, showing me off, adhering to my bidding, making me feel better - he would not give, and I, in turn, would be better for it.

I have changed DRASTICALLY in a year, and I believe wholeheartedly that it is due to interpersonal exposure to an Aspergers mindset. I have had friends be baffled at what I've told them, seemingly incapable to comprehend how I engage in a relationship with someone that isn't fond of passionate kissing, that doesn't like going out, that won't introduce me to his parents, that won't say he loves me, that will not live with me, that schedules time together, doesn't understand the need for gift giving or romantic getaways, and that cannot argue (this aspect in particular has shown me quite shockingly how much I instigate pointless arguments for a sick sense of chaos relief).

Basically, I have, for the first time perhaps ever, developed full trust in another human being, because, in part, of his Aspergers. I believe when he shuts down that, no he's not doing it unfairly, that perhaps, I need to evaluate what I'm asking or confronting him with and whether or not its worth the mental exhaustion it causes him - and causes me, unconsciously. Without doing anything but being himself, and I stress this to him at every opportunity, under NO circumstances do I want you to change...anything, I have fundamentally changed. Perhaps in ways to have caused me to mirror some traits of Aspergers. And you know what? For someone with the anguish of a Borderline mine, adopting, or learning from, the way someone with Aspergers, who has already sorted through the confusion and alienation that comes from understanding the Syndrome, without even knowing he had it until I came along, has been the greatest breakthrough in restoring my sanity, my clarity, and my ability to tolerate extreme, volatile, and destructive emotions.

The one thing I guess I would like from him, is something I will never have, but also something I not sure would be beneficial for my particular case anyway. There's a show called Pushing Daisies about a pie maker who kills people if he touches them. He falls in love with a girl, and because they cannot touch they do things like kiss each other with plastic wrap between them, or hold hands with gloves. It's sort of how I feel with him. That no matter what, I'll always feel a disconnect, and that makes me sad. But also means that I can learn to love myself better, and appreciate him in whatever way I can in the meantime.

Furthermore, if someone with BPD came to me and said "what should I do for treatment", I'd say, "be in a relationship with someone with Aspergers!" Not even joking

 

[luminoff]

And just to add, his longest relationship before me was six months in 38 years, and that was wholly platonic, almost housemate like. He has been exposed to some very intense behaviour from me, and I have commended him for his ability to work with me to help us grow as a couple. I say all these things, but I can guarantee, knowing how he speaks of how he thinks and feels, and how Aspergers in general relates to others, that he has had a much more difficult time than I on this journey. But I believe he appreciates the exposure to this very unique relationship as much as I have

 

[Guendolen]

He does not compliment, and if he does, it is a factual statement.

First of all let me say you are an amazing person and you should be proud of yourself. I have had many NT partners and none of them even bothered to search about my diagnosis (i am diagnosed since 1 year old) but instead they channeled all their energy into the convert-her-into-a-normal-girlfriend great plan. Which resulted in us breaking up.
I start with your phrase i quoted above. I can totally relate to that and i had great trouble because of that. I do not understand the protocol of complimenting or praising. To me if i date someone and i have sex with them is already solid proof that i like them very much. Also i dont feel the need to hear compliments which adds to the confusion. NTs would get insecure and perceive me as cold or indifferent. Something that worked (although it seemed super weird to them at first) was to ask them to adress their needs directly. If someone tells me that it calms them if i hold their hand or tell them i find them smart or funny i will try to adapt my behavior because i care about them. Maybe your boyfriend doesn't realise how important this is to you. Evaluate his effort, not his results.
Schedule is very important to aspies myself included. I need time alone to persue my special interests or just empty my head from the noise. I had interaction with NT's with Bordeline personality disorder and i have seen that they tend to take things personally, which is almost never the case with an aspie. When i need time alone it is not because i avoid or punish someone. It is essential to me in order not to have a mental breakdown. Imagine yourself being in a rock concert all night. Don't you want to stay in a quiet room the next day and recover? For me one day with a NT can be exactly like that. No matter how much i liked the music or the people i cannot do that every day. It helps if you have strong support network with good friends and hobbies of your own so that your partner doesn't have to cover all your emotional needs.

My grandmother used to say ''the biggest secret to make your marriage work forever is: if you want it to last forever it will''.
What do i mean by that: take some time (or a lot of time) alone and think about yourself and what you value or want in your life. Being with an aspie means you will have to wave goodbye to many traditional NT ideas about romantic love. You cannot turn him to a compassionate, expressive, sociable person. He will only have meltdowns or shut down and break up. And it is hearbreaking because i believe that aspies can be the most devoted partners if you win their trust. You mentioned his good qualities which will improve with time and effort.
The million dollar question is: are you happy with that? Are you willing to adapt and compromise too? It is a challenging journey but the rewards can be things you will never experience in a NT-NT relationship.
The choice is up to you. Best wishes on whatever you decide.

 

[Vanilla]

Knowing about BPD, I respect your efforts, very much so. I'm afraid I don't have much more to add myself, but I'd like to recommend a few links, which may interest you. Also, I know of someone, with a similar situation, to yours (minus the BPD). I will point them in your direction, so that they may decide if they would like to speak with you (perhaps in private), regarding your situation, if you are open to this.

Different Together Community For Partners of People Affected by Asperger Syndrome

22 Things a Woman Must Know: If She Loves a Man With Asperger's Syndrome | AspiesCentral.com (Sorry about the title. This should translate similarly for your situation).

The Asexual Visibility and Education Network | asexuality.org (Not sure if this applies to your partner, but it sounds likely).

 

[AdamR]

Hiya, Luminoff.

Three different AC members tapped me on the shoulder to read your thread, as I am in a shockingly similar situation to your own. I am an NT bisexual male, aged 58. My partner (Nadador, on these forums) is a highly successful Aspie male of the very same age, who works in television, and keeps our relationship quiet for both personal and professional reasons. I am also a successful professional, in the music industry, but I have a long history on the receiving end of abusive relationships, and am diagnosed with chronic major depression. I'm told I have some BPD traits as well, though evidently not enough to earn a proper diagnosis. Until recently, I also had a bit of a drinking problem. A coping mechanism, no doubt. I knew straight away I had to sort that out to make my relationship work. Classically, it was easier to do it for him than for myself.

My partner could well be the long-lost twin of your own. He's an incredibly honest, gentle, and principled man. His previous relationships have been very few and far between, and he's never been involved with any one person for more than ten months. We have reached the seven-month mark, and to my surprise, are recently engaged, so I have no doubt that he loves me--but saying it is difficult for him, and his compliments are more often delivered as factual observations rather than endearments. He lives fifteen minutes' drive from me, and we do spend nights together, but it's never a certainty that we'll last through the evening unless he's in the right frame of mind. He has made it clear that even after we eventually marry, we will likely never share a residence. We have a number of struggles with intimacy, down to his terrible problem with hypersensitivity, and life in the bedroom is frustrating to say the least. He also has a paraphilia (fetish), and spending time playing on his own often seems to be his preference. He can't argue without shutting down, or in one rather frightening recent instance, melting down spectacularly.

For work, he spends weeks at a time in remote places, far off the grid, and it's not hyperbole to say he's quite feral by nature. I know he would be happier if he could just disappear into the wilds forever. Yet he stays, and we're making a go of it. Quite luckily for me, he's an incredibly patient listener and teacher. Adapting and responding to his Aspie thinking has made me more self-aware, a better communicator, and an all-round better person. The months we've been together have been the most fulfilling I've known in any relationship, yet still, I'm never quite sure if anything I ask of him is too much. I'm not sure if he always knows the answer to that, either.

Keeping my puzzle of a partner comfortable has been my first priority, with a staggering learning curve that I readily admit I'm still working through. I call him my Glacier--he adapts to new information or any changes in his personal life very slowly, so the best answer to most any situation is to give him time and space. That doesn't come naturally to me, but it's taught me much-needed self-discipline. When we hit a bump in our relationship, my first impulse is to scramble to keep him close, but I've learned that's the worst thing for him, as he's a sponge for my anxiety. If I am dramatic or demanding about my needs, he will invariably withdraw, so I have to stay level and communicate things plainly and logically. I've also had to learn to give in order to receive, which has been good for both of us. It's when I give him what he needs that he blossoms, and can be most reciprocal and attentive.

I also know he needs frequent breaks from my innate intensity. Even when we're together, he needs a great deal of quiet, so we spend a lot of our "couple" time each doing our own thing in the same room. He clearly appreciates this--he likes being near me, but can't be smothered, which happens easily. I am careful not to ever be passive-aggressive when I am frustrated, as I've found it's the single worst thing I can do in terms of how I affect his mood. As for intimacy, I show him the kinds of affection I know he is most comfortable with, and let him initiate anything further as he feels able. Again, the more I give him, the more he gives back. He can be quite affectionate and playful when the mood strikes him.

It may seem I do most all of the work, but that's hardly true. The concessions and activities of partnership don't come easily to him, so for every ounce of effort I'm putting in, I know he's working just as hard. It's a difficult relationship to share with outsiders, because it looks unbalanced from the outside, but really, it isn't. There is good give and take. I've had to mould myself to suit him, but the payoff has been well worth all my bending about.

If you would like to discuss your situation with me privately, please feel free to message me. You're the first person I've met who may understand much of what I live with, so talking with you would be a pleasure!

 

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luminoff