Lately I wonder if feminism is needed or not.

[Owliet]

We can look at Norway, Sweden and Denmark to see how things are when feminism is strong, it has been strong here since the 1970s. When I was in kindergarten in the 80s, young boys were taught feminism. And we can look at other places where feminism barely exists to see how that works out. All I know is that here in Norway women are free, as far as I know, no one is stopping them from doing anything. Politics, police, military, business, women everywhere. And I pity the fool who tries to stop them. I like strong, independent Scandinavian women. And I have a sister so I have to say this or she will kick my butt.

Here we are catching up as A much improvement From first rights to vote federally in 1971. There’s still places that are very much for the traditional way and will actively vote against feminism movements *cough appenzell* but who counts them? there are still women who opt for the traditional roles, but there’s nothing wrong with that. We’ve had 8 presidents, with the last being Simonetta Sommaruga (2015 and 2020) which is quite an achievement. Although military is quite male dominated.

 

[tree]

Figlia mia, le strade della vita sono piene di rifiuti organici, ma tu vuoi proprio andare dove portano I cani.... e con le scarpe bianche

Too tired now

Is this Italian? I saw what it meant on google translate but i didn't understand so good. What do you mean? If you answer, answer me in English please.

google translate =

"My daughter, the streets of life are full of organic waste, but you really want to go where dogs lead .... and with white shoes"


@dark cloud
It appears to mean that he believes you are seeking something worthless.

Maybe when he's rested up he'll offer an explanation.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

My introduction to feminism came as a freshman in high school, reading The Feminine Mystique. I also observed the struggles of my mother at her work. Seeing boys and men who would take advantage of women, abandoning them if they impregnated them, I was able to see how men were protected systemically from the consequences of their actions. This still happens. There are more animal shelters in America than shelters for abused women. Messages that men are entitled to intimate relationships with women are rife in our society, as are constant messages that the worth of women are less than men, especially among the religious and conservative. And now, in America, women are being denied reproductive freedom and bodily autonomy. We need feminism now more than ever.

Growing up in the 50s and 60s there was a lot of pressure to conform to our sexual roles. Just as I did not understand a lot of social communication, I was resistant to much indoctrination. That gave me the freedom to develop my values by myself. I respected a lot of emotional intelligence that I saw in girls and women and would do nothing to disrespect them. That caused me some problems when I took it too far. in my first relationship after I finally started dating at 26, I was unshure how to take it into intimacy, afraid of doing anything that would not respect her. That, among other things led to our breakup when I realized afterward that the signals were there that I just did not get at the time. I have worked with women directors and managers in my career and enjoyed supporting them. That also helped me.

I think we need feminism for a vibrant and nurturing society.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'm pretty sure women there find unique ways to express themselves so brothers, and husbands know they are not willing to live thier lives in that fashion.

 

[Billthecat]

google translate =

"My daughter, the streets of life are full of organic waste, but you really want to go where dogs lead .... and with white shoes"


@dark cloud
It appears to mean that he believes you are seeking something worthless.

Maybe when he's rested up he'll offer an explanation.

It could be translated into:

Are you sure you want to talk about this? In some cases it could be so dangerous.

Thanks for your patience and for the translation, I try my best, but expressing concept in your language is a double effort I can't do if too tired

 

[Luca]

Equality for ALL people is needed.

 

[1ForAll]

Any information about feminism that shows mostly an anti-male slant stating no critques or roles of some women in creating those disparity in rights, too, I pay no attention to, as there is a way to promote equal rights for women by stating things in a more balanced way so more of the message is heard, and as both women and men create this sexist culture we live in.

As well, any position on feminism that focuses only on equal rights, and not equal accountability for crimes or other wrongs, I dismiss as well as sexist or an extreme, biased position. And any feminist belief that men currently do not have some equal right and benefit needs in many ways that women do too I'd discount as hogwash. I usually look for balance when determining if their views shows bias or irrationality. If there is too much emotion or one sidedness, I roll my eyes to be honest.

 

[Tom]

I support feminism from an equalists perspective and yes think it is needed. Very. On matriarchal societies I'm game. I like strong women and was pleased to serve under them in the military. In fact I kinda have always had a thing for them and married a military woman.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am not compatible with people who are "weak" in character. I get very frustrated when dealing with people who are "dependent", "mousy", "needy", "emotional", and are looking for someone to follow. I prefer leaders like my wife,...she doesn't need me a bit. "Alphas" tend to be attracted to other "alphas",...not sure if the terminology or the psychology of this is proven,...but that's my "personal truth".

 

[Forest Cat]

Here we are catching up as A much improvement From first rights to vote federally in 1971. There’s still places that are very much for the traditional way and will actively vote against feminism movements *cough appenzell* but who counts them? there are still women who opt for the traditional roles, but there’s nothing wrong with that. We’ve had 8 presidents, with the last being Simonetta Sommaruga (2015 and 2020) which is quite an achievement. Although military is quite male dominated.

I think we actually had some feminism here 1000 years ago. The viking women had many rights and made decisions. And that was not common everywhere at the time. They could for example divorce their husbands for several reasons. I think one of those reasons are pretty funny, one rule was that if your husband wore a very low-cut shirt and strutted around showing too much bare chest in public, you could divorce him if you wanted to. lol Sounds like I'm joking but it's true. And funny. And you could also divorce your husband if he didn't satisfy you sexually. So the men couldn't be lazy, they had to put some effort into it. But the shirt-thing was the funniest one.

 

[Shevek]

When the Industrial Revolution appeared, it brought easy options for the women who felt least suited to life in the home. These became the avant-garde, and naturally assumed that only coercion had kept their sisters housebound. Instincts were scorned.
One interesting case appeared with telephones. After inventing and installing them, men also became the first telephone operators. Unfortunately, eavesdropping has always been a perk in that job, and the men could not resist blowing their cover with pranks. Women, on the other hand, never gave the game away, and it became a women's profession.
Having Asperger's is a mixed blessing, and so is being out of the mainstream of being typically gendered. The world will never be organized for our benefit. It isn't "society rules" that keep most jobs gendered, it is just instinct and efficiency. I worked for a while in a "women's profession" because my talent was in demand, but I made sure that I was the only one there never suspected of shirking the shared "housekeeping" chores. It was still somewhat awkward having me around.
If we can't see that on average men and women are somewhat different in every respect, and focus on the overlap and outliers, it can seem quite reasonable to demand equal numbers of each gender in a profession. Affirmative action reforms tend toward two results. There's either a takeover, or a privileged group not doing their share. In education, men are being squeezed out as both students and teachers, and we don't hear anything about equality there now. In the Armed Forces, the women become a liability in combat situations.

 

[Shevek]

I knew a very headstrong woman who fell in love in Jordan, and married into a harem. Men may have fantasies about this being like the Playboy club, but it is actually a lot more like walking into a primary school where women run everything.

Long ago, "feminism" seemed like a reasonable name for a movement promoting equality, but there has been no stopping at equality. If the people who invented gender-neutral language were interested in equality, they would be called Humanists. Some feminists I know want to start equality with 10,000 years of absolute matriarchy, to balance their myths of history.

Women are stuck with doing childbirth, and usually this leads to care of the infant, at least, and often a lifetime commitment. That does not mean that there are no compensations. On average, men protect women. When a boatload of refugees is rescued, the medics make a beeline to save the young fathers, who are always closest to dying of thirst. Almost all the charities give preference to women. Canada is making a big fuss over the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, while adamantly ignoring twice as many men and boys.

If you search Google for "Let's get everything out in the open, he said." you get 2.4 times as many hits as with ". . . she said." Women's power is hidden. When boys are play fighting, their sisters are busy learning to gossip and to make and break alliances. In a small community, a man can be ruined by gossip he never hears.

Along with feminism in popular culture, we have also institutionalized misandry. When is the last time you heard about women aspiring to male virtues such as loyalty, honesty, or bravery?
Instead, we see more and more people in the public eye absolutely refusing to admit guilt, no matter what the evidence. That is the same confidence we saw on Maury Povich's TV show, with women insisting on who was the father right up to the DNA revelation.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I support feminism from an equalists perspective and yes think it is needed. Very. On matriarchal societies I'm game. I like strong women and was pleased to serve under them in the military. In fact I kinda have always had a thing for them and married a military woman.

View attachment 83626

What I liked about my future spouse, was her, like me, living independently and so had a life, and interests.

 

[Shevek]

I'm wondering why this thread is hard to find now, and there was a glitch in my posting times.
Anyway, I like both strong women and strong men when they are on the side of justice, and not when they are serving themselves. "Karens" are strong women, but they are not popular. The head nurse at my local hospital got upset when I pointed out her error in scheduling, and proceeded to make my life miserable and my treatment unavailable. My female counselor, OTOH, bent the rules to do a better job.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

I am not compatible with people who are "weak" in character. I get very frustrated when dealing with people who are "dependent", "mousy", "needy", "emotional", and are looking for someone to follow. I prefer leaders like my wife,...she doesn't need me a bit. "Alphas" tend to be attracted to other "alphas",...not sure if the terminology or the psychology of this is proven,...but that's my "personal truth".

My spouse and I, two firstborns, got together. It makes the battle of wills interesting, but ultimately rewarding after we tire of bashing against each other at times.

 

[Swansong]

I think discussing issues such as feminism on the Internet is counter productive because words have lost any actual meaning in here, it's all just a perpetual outrage machine that rewards with attention the most extreme and absurd points of view.

It's people trying to appear as virtuous as possible to feel validated so in the end its all hallow and meaningless.

What I can say from my own experience, having grown up in a very sexist society (not anything like Iran levels, everyone here is supposedly equal in the eyes of the law but the culture itself is very discriminatory against women) is that it all depends on how much empathy one has a person.

Nobody is perfect, nobody is truly virtuous, and looking back I can recognize I sometimes without realizing acted in sexist ways and I feel bad about it. A part of it is the culture I was born into, another the appeal of this idea that we as men stand above women just by virtue of who we are, there's something intoxicating about such idea and it's difficult, perhaps even impossible to 100% get rid of it.

But I have a lot of empathy and while I can't truly understand what it must be to be a woman in a society such as my own, I recognize the constant injustice of it and I at least try to be better as times goes on.

I have very little interest in thinking too much about every detail of gender relations and apply all these complex rules and ideologies that don't really fit well with human nature so I just try to live by the rules of threating others how I'd like to be treated myself. And a few times over the years women in my life pointed out times when I was out of line and did so rationally, respectfully and convincingly and therefore all there was for me to do was to acknowledge the error of my ways, apologize and try to be a little better moving forward.

None of this makes me ashamed of being a man (but to be fair I really dislike most other men), it's just that we're all human and that means being flawed as all hell. But when you start seeing other people as humans too then things change, you want to do and be better. But some people, perhaps a lot or even most, aren't capable or simply don't want to do that. Others are just meat to be exploited and so we end up with the world that we have.

 

[Shevek]

Women are built to be benign dictators over their own household, so they don't argue like men, who expect to deal with their peers. Sometimes, it takes me years to figure out how some words have been twisted at the base of a vast philosophy.
Bill Burr has some excellent commentary on the situation. He points out that if the facts are in a woman's favour, she will stay on point like a bulldog, but if her arguments are in danger of failing, she will change the subject, attacking on some other front. When feminists demand equality with men, they want to cherry-pick the benefits and avoid all the penalties. There are always jokes around about how easy it is to understand men, and how impossible it is to understand women. That's how they maintain a great deal of control, while appearing weak.

 

[Knower of nothing]

Women are built to be benign dictators over their own household, so they don't argue like men, who expect to deal with their peers. Sometimes, it takes me years to figure out how some words have been twisted at the base of a vast philosophy.
Bill Burr has some excellent commentary on the situation. He points out that if the facts are in a woman's favour, she will stay on point like a bulldog, but if her arguments are in danger of failing, she will change the subject, attacking on some other front. When feminists demand equality with men, they want to cherry-pick the benefits and avoid all the penalties. There are always jokes around about how easy it is to understand men, and how impossible it is to understand women. That's how they maintain a great deal of control, while appearing weak.

This type of extreme generalization is almost an insult to emotionally manipulative men.

 

[Rodafina]

Women are built to be benign dictators over their own household, so they don't argue like men,

So, all women are the same then? Each one of us operates just like the other? Interesting.

He points out that if the facts are in a woman's favour, she will stay on point like a bulldog, but if her arguments are in danger of failing, she will change the subject, attacking on some other front

Again, interesting that you and Bill Burr know how every single woman operates. It must’ve taken you an astoundingly long time to speak to every one of them and determine that.

That's how they maintain a great deal of control, while appearing weak.

There we go, this is why we need this conversation and why we need feminism. I’m not even a feminist, but grateful that there are people talking about it because of gish gallop like this. (@Gerald Wilgus, I borrowed a phrase I’ve seen you use because I just can’t contemplate how else to refer to this ludicrous statement.)

 

[Shevek]

This type of extreme generalization is almost an insult to emotionally manipulative men.

It is not possible to discuss every variation and still focus on the average. However, I will stipulate that I think that emotionally manipulative people should be insulted, except when they use it to calm situations down. Where anger is justified, the calming should be tactical, not strategic. Rational thought is very fragile, and emotions can easily replace it with rationalization.