Starflowerpower87
Well-Known Member
Just think, humans once knew how to be happy without it.
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It's silly that society needs money to be happy
- Thread starter Starflowerpower87
- Start date
"Cavemen" still didn't like being cold and hungry.
Money is a significant contributor to efficient resource management and allocation of goods in a society that's so big it's impossible to do direct exchanges of goods and services with everyone else.
It doesn't actually make people happy, but the indirect resource constraints due to having too little of it can definitely make people unhappy.
Money is a significant contributor to efficient resource management and allocation of goods in a society that's so big it's impossible to do direct exchanges of goods and services with everyone else.
It doesn't actually make people happy, but the indirect resource constraints due to having too little of it can definitely make people unhappy.
Yes, and barter got to be pretty awkward.
So 'money' was invented as a place holder for value.
Not as heavy or hard to manage as a load of potatoes
or a herd of goats. Easier to carry. Doesn't spoil. Usually
doesn't run off or die. Neat and tidy.
The Lydians were the first civilization to mint coins according to Herdotous. (The Persians borrowed the idea when they invaded Lydia.)
Aristotle would counter that it was the wife of King Midas (of golden touch fame) of Phrygia who came up with the idea.
The Templars streamlined the banking and credit process as its known today to accommodate pilgrims traveling to the Holy Lands.
Aristotle would counter that it was the wife of King Midas (of golden touch fame) of Phrygia who came up with the idea.
The Templars streamlined the banking and credit process as its known today to accommodate pilgrims traveling to the Holy Lands.
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nukefusion
Member
I've always said that money doesn't necessarily make you happy, but a lack of it can certainly contribute to unhappiness. Just enough money to elimnate financial worry is probably the sweet spot.
Knower of nothing
Well-Known Member
In a sense it's also silly that we need to be happy. Something about a solution being justified by the presence of a problem that is itself the solution.
Starflowerpower87
Well-Known Member
I was talking about tribal people. They seem happy without it.
Indigenous tribes used things like beads and/or shells, furs, produce, etc. As @tree mentioned, the barter system has been around as long as civilization has.
One thing I always thought was pretty nifty was the way that in some old-fashioned monasteries, individual monks gave up the right to even own money.
Money and happiness aren't the same thing.
I've been thinking about this-- Money is a form of tangible wealth, a form of "plenty." Humans thrive when they have plenty, and that can be plenty of food, of shelter, of clothing and family relationships and happy communities and all the stuff that could be classified as human needs.
That's where the disconnect between money and happiness comes in. (I am defining happiness for the purpose of my post as the state in which human thriving is most fulfilled, where humans can easiest fulfill their purposes.)
Anyway that's it.
Money and happiness aren't the same thing.
I've been thinking about this-- Money is a form of tangible wealth, a form of "plenty." Humans thrive when they have plenty, and that can be plenty of food, of shelter, of clothing and family relationships and happy communities and all the stuff that could be classified as human needs.
That's where the disconnect between money and happiness comes in. (I am defining happiness for the purpose of my post as the state in which human thriving is most fulfilled, where humans can easiest fulfill their purposes.)
Anyway that's it.
Happiness is derived from purpose. Money is merely a quantifiable system of allowing one to meet their basic needs in a measureable way.
To surrender systems like money and barter is to surrender one's free will and self reliance and become wholly dependent upon an inherently flawed utopian ideal. (Essentially the promise of many faiths).
Even in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, those who made it through to the Field of Reeds, still had tasks they carried out to meet their needs.
People used to get paid in bread, beer, and salt.
But happiness is determined and defined by the individual. (Basically, we are in charge of creating our own joy.) Society requires currency and/or goods to function. It doesn't define happiness by a surfeit or paucity of goods or currency.
It is certainly a factor in the category of needs, but it doesn't define what brings one joy.
To surrender systems like money and barter is to surrender one's free will and self reliance and become wholly dependent upon an inherently flawed utopian ideal. (Essentially the promise of many faiths).
Even in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, those who made it through to the Field of Reeds, still had tasks they carried out to meet their needs.
People used to get paid in bread, beer, and salt.
But happiness is determined and defined by the individual. (Basically, we are in charge of creating our own joy.) Society requires currency and/or goods to function. It doesn't define happiness by a surfeit or paucity of goods or currency.
It is certainly a factor in the category of needs, but it doesn't define what brings one joy.
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A Purdue study in 2018 concluded that the ideal income point for individuals is $95,000 for life satisfaction and $60,000 to $75,000 for emotional well-being.
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Starflowerpower87
Well-Known Member
These are some very informative responses. Thanks guys!
I think more to the point, ones in the past, had happy moments, just as we do today.
It is true that money does not bring happiness; it can bring a short term euphoric sensation, but rich people are a resounding demonstration that money is not something which leads to contentment in life.
However, without money, it is impossible to live. Food; clothing; fun things to do. Of course, one can get those free too, but not all the time.
Balance is the key.
It is true that money does not bring happiness; it can bring a short term euphoric sensation, but rich people are a resounding demonstration that money is not something which leads to contentment in life.
However, without money, it is impossible to live. Food; clothing; fun things to do. Of course, one can get those free too, but not all the time.
Balance is the key.
Given the (accurate) perspective that money as such is useful for handling resource allocation ... the next step is to think about credit, and the relationship between money and credit.
This is more difficult, and includes some of the worst things about a money economy. But if you don't understand it, what you know about money is trivial. Anyone can spend money.
But as demonstrated, for example, by computers and smartphones, you don't need to understand something to use it.
Recognizing that there's no practical difference between money and credit to a user is a good first step.
This is more difficult, and includes some of the worst things about a money economy. But if you don't understand it, what you know about money is trivial. Anyone can spend money.
But as demonstrated, for example, by computers and smartphones, you don't need to understand something to use it.
Recognizing that there's no practical difference between money and credit to a user is a good first step.
Human population growth necessitated the need for an exchange system like money.
If the world consisted of only a few small tribal communities in diverse places,
the barter system would have remained fine.
But, not on a worldwide global scale of complexities and massive number of peoples interacting.
Money is only paper, or something accounted for. It isn't that pretty and won't
give you nutrition to live if eaten. Yet having it is necessary for living unless you are completely self- sustainable. A true Grizzly Adams?
Money has become an object that can also buy power. That is the food some people desire and call happiness.
Having enough to never worry about how I'm going to pay for necessities is
really the happiness money can buy.
Maybe some nice objects you would like to have for enjoyment also.
If the world consisted of only a few small tribal communities in diverse places,
the barter system would have remained fine.
But, not on a worldwide global scale of complexities and massive number of peoples interacting.
Money is only paper, or something accounted for. It isn't that pretty and won't
give you nutrition to live if eaten. Yet having it is necessary for living unless you are completely self- sustainable. A true Grizzly Adams?
Money has become an object that can also buy power. That is the food some people desire and call happiness.
Having enough to never worry about how I'm going to pay for necessities is
really the happiness money can buy.
Maybe some nice objects you would like to have for enjoyment also.
Storm Hess
Permanent Spaceman
Currency, in any form, is a human invention based on contrived scarcity. I dream of a day when there is no such thing. The world will look toward the better of humanity instead of lining it's own pocket off of the death and suffering of others.
I can dream.
Humans definitely have had a hard time being happy at all throughout history to begin with. Look at us now - with all of our modern inventions, we're (arguably, and over a large-scale) more miserable than we've ever been.
Money might have something to do with it, also technology. Even though I claim to like both of those things
Money might have something to do with it, also technology. Even though I claim to like both of those things
At this point, money is used to bail out companies in the US. Airplane companies, Banks, savings and loans, investment companies, Insurance companies, Fannie Mae, etc. We have bailed them all out. Covid had me scratching my head thinking it was a Pharma bailout. The task given by the US government was to make a vaccine and basically not even test it to see if it worked.
I don't like money, it creates distance in my relationships if the person is money-centric.
I don't like money, it creates distance in my relationships if the person is money-centric.
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