Is there such a thing as an UNREASONABLE accommodation?

[Outdated]

has anyone here ever had to explain why a certain accommodation wasn’t just helpful, but actually necessary? Sometimes people think you're asking for too much just because they don’t understand the impact. I’m curious how others have managed those conversations with employers or schools without it turning into a debate.

It's difficult for me to relate to people's discussions about this topic because I lived in a different world. I was a tradesman working for small companies, usually less than 20 employees and the owner is also working on the floor right next to you as well as trying to run the office and deal with clients.

With job interviews if they got to the stage where they were seriously considering employing you then it came down to negotiations. No tradesman worth employing is ever going to settle for award wages and conditions. I didn't know anything about autism back then but I did know I wasn't normal and I did know what I needed. One of my terms was always:

"I'm not here to socialise and make friends and I don't do work christmas parties, I like to be left alone to do my job. So you keep the monkeys off my back and you'll be glad to have me."

A large number of employers understood and were actually pleased by that condition. I changed jobs a lot and travelled my country a bit and I got good at doing interviews. I found that a lot of people are more than willing to come to the party if you negotiate properly before they employ you. They get to make an informed decision that way. Getting the job first and then springing surprises on them afterwards is not likely to go down as well.

 

[Crossbreed]

But what is 'reasonable' and what isn't?

An employer is going to look at cost effectiveness. An NT is less expensive to accommodate than the neuro-diverse. They will only consider such accommodations when there is a shortage of such employees available.

 

[Magna]

"I'm not here to socialise and make friends and I don't do work christmas parties, I like to be left alone to do my job. So you keep the monkeys off my back and you'll be glad to have me."

^ I've felt the same way in my working career of 40+ years now. I've never wanted my job to be my family or be as integral in my life as my family, free time, etc. I work to get paid and then I try to live my life the way I want to live it.

In the U.S., the corporate world has made significant efforts towards "making the workplace like family", making it "fun", team-building exercises, a greater emphasis on feelings and equity, etc. I don't think it's sexist (because it's fact) to point out that such efforts in every job I've worked at have been driven by female managers. The job I'm in now for example, the management and executive level are majority female. Some of the content of the meetings are actually cringeworthy at the level of excessive affirmations, platitudes, accolades, etc.

The problem with an excessive amount of the "touchy-feely" stuff is that it actually crushes overall team morale save for the few people who really enjoy that level of emotion at work. It distracts. It derails productivity. In short, it's bad for business.

An example from my job: The Human Resources department (100% female management) created a new software program that all employees were required to be trained on learning how to use. The HR dept was thrilled, even giddy on the zoom meetings about their accomplishment. The new software program every employee was now going to be required to learn and use regularly (having literally NOTHING to do with our regular jobs, work, etc) is a program specifically and solely designed for employees to give public company-wide recognition of other employees who have done their jobs well. The last thing overworked employees need is to be forced to learn a new system that doesn't have to do with our respective jobs/work all in the name of the "feels".

I know this trend toward the "feels" isn't just at my work. It's widely adopted corporate mentality including at my wife's job. Her situation is very similar to mine (female manager). Her manager routinely shows slideshows at meetings where the manager posts pictures of her own family on vacation, doing various family related activities as well as having syrupy platitudinal quotes, etc. My wife (a woman) gets aggravated by the meetings because she, like me, just wants to do her job.

 

[Outdated]

... efforts towards "making the workplace like family", making it "fun", team-building exercises,

I shudder at the thought.

...a program specifically and solely designed for employees to give public company-wide recognition of other employees who have done their jobs well.

Instant toxic workplace. Well done Human Resources! Now all the vicious petty megalomaniacs in middle management can make all their favourite toadies vote for them.

 

[velociraptor]

But what is 'reasonable' and what isn't?

Was reading an article today about an autistic child who was sent home from an ER because his behaviour was disturbing to others in distress. I don't think we have the right to make the lives of everyone else miserable when we can't control meltdowns.

 

[vergil96]

Unreasonable accommodation is too hard to implement.

I found that a lot of people are more than willing to come to the party if you negotiate properly before they employ you. They get to make an informed decision that way. Getting the job first and then springing surprises on them afterwards is not likely to go down as well.

That would also be my thinking, for the reason that perhaps a workplace isn't able to provide certain conditions. They won't change their building, for example. It's a two-sided interview, a negotiation. You're also asking what the company has to offer.

However, this point of view isn't popular here. Perhaps it's rooted in a more intitutionalised workplace culture and larger companies. However, my work experience has been with large workplaces. On an individual level, a manager or owner will feel played with if you demand accommodations later. When responsibilitybis diffucsed and he or she isn't going to know or be responsible, but the HR will be, it's another chance to stand out in a negative fashion. None of my experiences were with structures like this.

 

[VictorR]

has anyone here ever had to explain why a certain accommodation wasn’t just helpful, but actually necessary? Sometimes people think you're asking for too much just because they don’t understand the impact. I’m curious how others have managed those conversations with employers or schools without it turning into a debate.

Pushback isn't unusual when it comes to accessibility requests.

Reasons vary but more common ones include:
1) Ableism
2) Lack of understanding
3) Not evaluating each case on it's own merit
4) Fear that others may complain and/or ask for the same
5) Following outdated policies and procedures
6) They think you're faking it

Quite often, the solution to pushback is to obtain and submit a note identifying what things are barriers to you and the extent (time, level of impact).

Of course, not everyone has a doctor, psycologist or occupational therapist who may be sufficiently familiar with your condition(s) and how they impact you at school or work to the extent of writing about it.

And sometimes even with a clearly written doctor's note, the employer may ask the employee to "try" something that is inappropriate or perhaps even harmful.

At that point, you would likely need to consider legal options.

 

[Carbonized]

I've had to explain that staying in 4 star hotels helps me manage my sensory needs better during work trips.

Some thought that was asking too much, but the lighting, sound control, and predictable routines actually make a big difference. I think what's "reasonable" really depends on how much it impacts others and how much it helps the person requesting it.