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Is it worth trying to argue against her logic?

sarepta

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Hi everyone. (English isn't my first language, so I apologize for any bad grammar or typos)

First of all I would like to point out that I know every person is different. Yes, I am going to ask a question here because of a specific person, but I know the answers I (hopefully) get won't necessarily tell me anything about her. I just really need some advice. I am an NT woman and the woman I'm referring to is on the spectrum.

I met a beautiful woman earlier this summer. We developed mutual feelings for each other and spent some time together that we both enjoyed. This was something we expressed to each other as well. Unfortunately she became very sick earlier this year, before we got to know each other. Now she has told me that we can't continue what we have started, cause she needs to recover and she doesn't have the strength to both maintain a relationship and getting better from her illness. She insisted that this had nothing to do with me and wished for me a happy life and hoped I would meet someone fantastic.
Thing is, I already met a fantastic person in her and I don't really feel like moving on. That said, I totally respect what she is saying about needing time to focus on getting well and not on a relationship. I will certainly not force a romantic relationship on her.

Anyways, I can picture her mind being made up because it's logical. She is sick, she will only "hold me back" by continuing a relationship where she won't be able to give me what you are supposed to be able to in a "typical" relationship, like seeing each other, worrying about each other, keeping in touch every day... For me, being a person more driven by emotions than logic, I see all this and at the same time I think what we potentially have is way to amazing to let go of. As far as I see it, there is no need to "cut me loose". My life became so much better with her in it. Having these feelings for her makes it unproblematic for me to give her space and time, but also say - hey, let's not end this. I mean, the problem here is that she is sick, that doesn't change the way I feel about her. I guess it's logical to tell me to look for someone else, but for me it feels totally wrong.

My question is - arguing with logic, with arguments based on feelings, is it even worth a try?
 
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With her being sick, I don't think you should argue with her position right now. Give her time and space. She stated clearly that she doesn't have it in her to recover and maintain a romance with you, and since aspies are much more likely to say what they mean instead of having double meanings, you shoudn't try to push this on her until she is ready. If you do, then it's likely she'll feel smothered or overwhelmed.
 
Forget seeking a logical answer. Just consider it in human terms.

Relationships are not necessarily linear for much of anyone. They have their ups and their downs. Sometimes for good reason, sometimes perhaps for none at all. However to a person with some kind of serious and chronic illness, perhaps in their own mind they simply don't have the energy to factor in all those potential and excess downs where complete physical- and mental recovery may be critical.

Where the only "downs" she may be able to tolerate under such circumstances are hers alone. Not those in a relationship that is optional, as opposed to whatever illness she is presently combating.
 
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You’ll have to respect her wishes when she says she doesn’t have a place for you in her life right now.
 
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Logic determines what is permissible in a sound argument, if you think that arguing against logic is conceivable you're misunderstanding what logic is. You cannot multiply against mathematics. You might try to dispute her feelings, but I'm not sure it's often a good idea for a man to dispute how a woman claims to feel at that time.

All aspieness aside, my feeling is that you might be her friend in the meantime and support her through her illness, however if you do that you probably ought not to let her get the impression that you're waiting for her, you might date other women even if you doubt it could go very far. If you are single when she's feeling healthy again I don't see any reason why she wouldn't want to pick up where you left off in romantic terms, but having built a more solid base of friendship on which the romance might rest when necessary. If you're truly in this for the long haul this might even be beneficial, although I wouldn't recommend that anyone make their partners sick for this reason.
 
You seem to be saying that your feelings are more important than hers. That your feelings should be justification for trying to change her mind enough for you to hang onto some hope for the future.

Sorry bud, but you're really no different from any other guy who's been dumped, for whatever reason, and thinks you don't have to accept it. No means no.
 
Thank you all for replying.

My intention with the question was not so much about relationship-advice, though most of the replies seems to focus on that. It was more a question of whether it is pointless to try to argue logic with feelings. I told you a bit of my story for some context, because I thought it may seem strange to ask the question without it.

You seem to be saying that your feelings are more important than hers.

If that was the impression you got from what I wrote then I guess I didn't express myself clearly.
(And for the record I'm not a guy)

Logic determines what is permissible in a sound argument, if you think that arguing against logic is conceivable you're misunderstanding what logic is.

Yeah, I guess what I mean is that the way I see it, logic and feelings are sometimes like opposites. What I assumed was that when trying to talk to someone who value logic as their main way to decide what's right or wrong in life, my feeling-based arguments wouldn't do.

I understand that some of you read my post as like I'm just asking for a "GO!" so I can contact this woman and beg her to ignore what she said, stop being sick and let me back into her life. Well, that is not at all my intention. I respect her wish and will not try to pursue a romantic relationship with her at the moment.

Still, from my point of view, because I would have appreciated to know myself, it would be a good thing for her to know that her illness and need for recovery time doesn't really change anything.

My point being that telling me to find someone else may seem logic, but it's still heartbreaking for her. And personally I don't see why that has to be necessary...

However, because of several of the replies I would like to add a question. Do you think it's a "NT-thing" to want to express things like what I'm mentioning over? Or to appreciate that someone would express it? Like, would people on the spectrum in general dislike an "explanation like that"? (I'm sorry if this one seem like a stupid and/or ignorant question)
 
(I'm sorry if this one seem like a stupid and/or ignorant question)

It doesn't.

Do you think it's a "NT-thing" to want to express things like what I'm mentioning over? Or to appreciate that someone would express it? Like, would people on the spectrum in general dislike an "explanation like that"?

Not at all, that sounds like it would be lovely to me if it came from the right woman at the right time.

What I assumed was that when trying to talk to someone who value logic as their main way to decide what's right or wrong in life, my feeling-based arguments wouldn't do.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'feeling-based arguments'. I would not expect feelings to trump logic, if anything has to take precedence I would personally favour logic. I often take feelings into account, for example if I feel sad and wish to feel happier it is logical to do something to change my mood. What changes my mood may be different than what changes other people's moods, anyone involved with me must understand that we cannot anticipate what might affect each other's emotions and how based on what occurs in the individual. It will take time to establish this, and if something seems offensive there should be questions to establish intent before actually taking offence. If you're unsure how she might take a gesture you might consider telling her what the gesture is intended to mean without waiting for a question.

I don't know her, and don't claim to understand women well. I would rather have a partner who asked questions often than have one who felt obliged to make guesses instead, or who felt uninformed. I tend to not be offended by questions that NTs seem reluctant to ask. You might want to feel this out a bit before putting it into practice should you decide to do so. Of course excessive questioning in certain areas may be taken as an attempt to establish something more than she's prepared for at the moment.

When I recognize an attempt by someone to take my feelings into consideration I generally appreciate it even if they're going about it all backwards. If it's sincere then they ought to be willing to discuss their method if it's approached diplomatically, and given that you're here to do exactly that things ought to go well for you.
 
Thank you, MrSpock, you answer as if you totally understand what I was really asking about.
I will definitely not rush this in any way and I have no plans of contacting her at the moment.

What I mean by "feeling-based arguments" (probably lousy english) is that while she might say "it is logical that me being sick will hold you back and you deserve better", I would say "But I have feelings for you so I don't care". Ok, that was a really stupid argument, but... I guess that's exactly my point. My arguments are not very good, competing with logic, but they are still, for me, very much genuine and heartfelt.
 
Lol, that is a horrible argument, and not true! You DO care!

I'm not at all suggesting that you take an aggressive stance, but if you did want to argue that...

You would not hold me back. (Whatever progress she believes she stands in the way of) is not so important to me, and progress in that direction isn't the only thing I value. My feelings are very important to me, and I have feelings for you. Progress in that direction is therefore more important to me than the things you are assuming to be important to me. I understand if you feel drained of energy and incapable at this time, you can make that decision on your own behalf but it's wrong of you to make that decision on my behalf. If we are to be together we shouldn't abandon each other in hard times, just because you would be starting in hard times doesn't mean that starting now is out of the question so far as I'm concerned. Frankly, you could use the support.

Or something along those lines. Logical, but taking emotion into account. You should really avoid contradicting anything you've previously told her about what's important without a very good reason for changing that. Again, not recommending the above, but it seems to me that she knows that she cannot anticipate your emotional states and needs without your help and could not reasonably argue against your emotions directly. Also, the sentence that contains this (Progress in that direction is therefore more important to me than the things you are assuming to be important to me.) also contains the word 'therefore'. About 35 years ago I played the pencil and paper Dungeons and Dragons and wrote the spell 'Power word Therefore'. That there is one powerful sentence. (I'm being a bit humorous here. But I did seriously write such a spell, I had no idea how stereotypical I was being!)
 
I'm not sure when you mean sick. Do you mean something terminal and serious or something chronic but manageable?

I know with me, dating can be tricky as I am so caught up with a short term goal (i.e: get all As, work out, etc) that i loose track of a relationship. And I think what she is trying to say is right now she isn't looking for romance. She is looking for treatment. That being said, I applaud you for being empathetic towards her situation and coming to this forum. It must be very tough to deal with right now.
 
@MrSpock, once again, thank you. I am really grateful for you showing so much concern! I really appreciate it.
@Lady Lucifer, it was terminal and serious, but is now manageable through medication and, obviously, enough time to focus on the recovery.
I am very thankful for all the replies that makes it easier for me to be able to understand how she might think about this. It bothers me that she is probably upset because she felt she had to make such a choice. I mean, obviously, we all should choose ourselves being healthy instead of choosing to focus on a partner. I just imagine that it might have been easier for some NT's to choose both.
As far as you say @Lady Lucifer, you get so caught up in short-term goals that being a partner comes second. And I imagine her experiencing the same thing, having to focus on getting better, and then she feels guilty for not being able to give me what she thinks I need. And then the only logical thing to do is to end it, even though it's painful for her. I just don't want her to hurt.
 
Firstly @sarepta, she is really lucky to have you in her life.

I completely understand where she is coming from, I would have arrived at the same conclusion. In fact I did, after the birth of my 1st child I was in critical condition in a rather extensive pool of my own blood and I sent my husband away to look after the baby, even though he wanted to stay with me. But it was the only logical course of action! We really are logical to the end.

And you may notice that relationships are hard work for us, we've lived our lives doing what is expected, this is a drain and so it's hard to adjust to a supportive relationship.

But in answer to your original question, I do think it is worth a try. I mean logically, 2 people working as a team is more efficient than 1 right? There's a logical come back!

But also with caution. As mentioned above there is a fine line between support and being smothering and them getting overwhelmed. You do risk making things worst. So if you haven't established a relationship, and she isn't used to the dynamic of a partnership, then maybe space is the answer. But if you think you can find that balance, slowly and carefully, then of course it's worth a try, she will be able to learn a lot from an NT woman if she just gives it a chance. See, there is a teeny tiny romantic spark buried in every aspie... deep, deep, hidden, locked inside...
 
it was terminal and serious, but is now manageable through medication and, obviously, enough time to focus on the recovery.
Wait, I’m confused. It was terminal, but now it isn’t? Terminal illness means incurable disease that is likely to result in death soon.
 
I've learned over the years never to pick an argument with women, they're nearly always right and the man is almost always wrong.
 
Wait, I’m confused. It was terminal, but now it isn’t? Terminal illness means incurable disease that is likely to result in death soon.

Sorry, my bad. It was acute, she could have died. She is not dying now, but needs medication.
 
my son has Asperger's and looks at everything from a very logical black and white place but saying that he will always come and ask me my opinion because he acknowledges that there is not always a need for the logical perspective and that some people use feelings as a guide through life. Now at times he will except that he doesn't 'get it' but goes with the flow anyway but for some situations there is no changing his perspective.
I have also faced the a possibility of death and it can change a person sometimes for the worse and sometimes for the better. What I will say is she will do what she feels is right for her for now. You have told her your position and that's all you can do and I am sure she will have someone she discusses things with who will give her options.
 
@Bella Pines, thank you for kind words and another opportunity for me to gain insight.
But also with caution. As mentioned above there is a fine line between support and being smothering and them getting overwhelmed. You do risk making things worst.
Yes, I am totally aware of that and I guess that is one of the reasons I am asking questions in here. I really appreciate all the feedback.
 

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