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Is it likely for someone to be similar to a person with autism but not have autism at all?

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Ruby, Nov 29, 2014.

  1. Ruby

    Ruby Well-Known Member

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    As in not being as social & loud as the average person, having a different outlook on life, not liking or relating to typical teenagers, having different opinions, not caring about appearance/fashion, being more mature & mucking around less ect.

    I wonder how it is possible for someone to be similar to me (a person with autism) but not have autism or for someone to be different (not really neurotypical) but not be autistic. If a person being different or not fitting in isn't because of autism, then doesn't it have to be something? I suspect that some quiet people are shy, many people with autism are shy & it could be more than shyness if they want to socialise but don't know what to say or don't relate to what people are talking about. Maybe there are so many more autistic people than is on the statistics.

    I am not typical for a person with autism by the way.
     
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  2. King_Oni

    King_Oni Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Somtimes I wonder if this situation is becoming more common and therefore turning the entire diagnostic process and diagnosis into a joke.

    It's probably also why plenty of people think that AS is a fad, and how it's something of this age. I'm not going disupte that AS is a thing, but I've read plenty of (angry) rants on how AS seems to reflect pretty much "counter-behaviour" to what society wants. And with that you can wonder who has and doesn't have autism and if the ones who don't have it, should be diagnosed by another doctor (since the first one might not recognize it) or if the autistic person actually is autistic at all and not just full of this behaviour that goes against society in general.
     
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  3. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    That's a very complex subject. Let's just say that I think that's entirely likely given how the DSM-V took "Asperger's Syndrome" and reclassified it as "Autism Spectrum Disorder". That being on a spectrum means various traits and behaviors in various intensities. I understand it, but I'm still not clear on whether or not this makes the medical community at large appear indecisive about what's going on. From a syndrome to a spectrum in one declaration! Not sure if this actually clarifies much of anything....:confused:

    And there are many conditions which may or may not be comorbid to ASD. And some of them can be mistaken for ASD. But yeah, I suspect there are many more mildly autistic people out there unaccounted for. Especially those of us who are much older, who were never accounted for in the distant past when autism wasn't an issue with much of anyone.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2014
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  4. Ruby

    Ruby Well-Known Member

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    I think there would be quite a lot of people out there with autism. Maybe they seem normal, especially if they are adults & they've learnt to get along in society or bottle up their differences. I reckon autism can basically just be what makes people different & unique. Maybe people act normal & make out that they think normally but are neurologically different. It doesn't have to be a disability or a bad thing. I'm guessing it could just be a personality type (for particularly high-functioning autistic) which is in maybe about 5-15% of the population.

    There was a very interesting video I watched recently about a women with Asperger's who always thought she was normal & others thought she was normal. She never suspected any autism related difficulties until she had a job. She describes autism as a "neurological difference" only.

     
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  5. Ste11aeres

    Ste11aeres Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, what you described is just introversion. Many Aspies are introverts, but not all introverts are Aspies.
     
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  6. Ruby

    Ruby Well-Known Member

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    I guess there is something about the brains of introverts that make them different to auties & typical people, but I wouldn't say introverts are neurotypical. I wonder what makes introverts different if it's not autism. Maybe it's just genetics.
     
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  7. Ste11aeres

    Ste11aeres Moderator Staff Member

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    There are neurotypical introverts and ASD introverts. There are also neurotypical extroverts and ASD extroverts.
    (Just like Aspies), Neurotypicals are individuals with different personalities. Some of them are introverts, some are extroverts.
     
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  8. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    ASD extroverts....that subject just fascinates me.

    Winston Churchill always seems to come to mind in speculating .
     
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  9. Ruby

    Ruby Well-Known Member

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    That explains why there are people out there who are quite similar to me. We are introverts. They may or may not have autism, depending on what difficulties they might experience.
     
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  10. apsie

    apsie Well-Known Member

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    One has to look for the underlying cause and effect of certain symptomatic traits.
    Allot of mistakes have, and are being made in that regard.
    Sometimes it can be very complex, the person(s) responsible for diagnosis is(are) unable to see the real cause.
    To answer OP's question, yes it is very possible and sometimes even likely.
    Many "personality disorders" (disorder because they deviate from the norm) can be the cause of what looks like autism/AS.
    Some times a symptom is mistaken for a disorder, and vice versa.

    One can suffer the same problems as an autistic individual, but not be on the spectrum.
    In a way, its nurture vs nature, but there is more to it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
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  11. Progster

    Progster Gone sideways to the sun V.I.P Member

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    Yes, that's a tricky one... if diagnosis is made on the basis of examining behaviour patterns and there is no autism test as such, then any diagnosis is almost entirely a matter of the opinion of the clinician, and very subjective, some misdiagnoses are bound to occur. Unless they find some more concrete means of testing such as by examining MRI brain scan patterns, there will always be an element of doubt.
     
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  12. AsheSkyler

    AsheSkyler Feathered Jester

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    I definitely think so. The more and more I examine my family the more I come to "how the hell am I the only of you people that's autistic!?" Sensory issues. Gotta be the sensory issues... I'm pretty much a concentrated dose of what people consider "bad" about my family. With the exception to my dad, I actually have better diplomatic skills in most situations than he does. And I'd probably be even nicer than I am if I didn't admire his "bad" qualities so much!
     
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  13. pushpin

    pushpin ✩◝(◍⌣̎◍)◜✩

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    Yes, I feel this way about psychology in general. It's so subjective.

    I mean, homosexuality was once in the DSM. Homosexuality is a behavior that went against past societal expectations, which made it considered to be abnormal. Plus, it could easily be argued that the defining traits of all illnesses and disorders in the DSM already exist within the general population to varying degrees. None of these traits are unique. What certain powerful people have decided to be considered unique are certain combinations of certain traits and certain patterns of traits.

    I am distrusting of psychology for the very reasons I put in bold. It's just so subjective. And the way the clinician perceives your behavior could depend on a variety of uncontrollable factors. Human beings are too unpredictable and too contrary. People are like the weather. Meteorology, though fascinating, consists of mostly educated guesses. (Edit to clarify previous sentence) I think psychology is similar. Also, I have found, through research, that there are some clinicians who seem much too eager to give AS diagnoses while others hold very outdated, sexist, racist ideas about what kinds of individuals can even have AS (though this problem is not at all unique to AS diagnoses, but to the mental health field in general and possibly the medical field when we enter into problems regarding the diagnosis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, etc.)

    What is given a diagnosis now (any diagnosis, not specifically AS-related) would have been perceived as "quirky," "head in the clouds", "melancholic", etc in the past. But, now, there are all these labels and boxes and thus limitations regarding what one can and can't become and experience. Yet, these labels can also help people have a socially acceptable explanation for not fitting into the standard boxes of society. The benefits neutralise the negatives and vice versa. I don't know. My thoughts on this are not very clear. I think unfortunately, one will always need a set of socially-acceptable excuses for not conforming to societal expectations. Even becoming a hermit is a socially-acceptable excuse. I think that is why there is a name for it.
     
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  14. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't given that any thought, but it stands to reason that autism could potentially be perverted into being labeled a form of counter-culture, and thus marginalized as a phony condition. Almost like a bad fashion trend. Pretty scary, but then all one has to do is pick up a history book to see how really scary our species can be at times.

    Fundamentally there's no real reason to expect someone to understand what it is to have an alternate neurology. The only frame of reference each of us has is ultimately our own thought process. Not the thought process of anyone else.

    It's why we all have to stick together on this. Because in this context, each other is all we are likely to have to validate who and what we are. This isn't a fad for us. It's our life, and we have to live it the best we can under the circumstances. No matter what the NT world thinks.

    When "The Big Bang Theory" finally leaves television, we'll still be here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  15. AsheSkyler

    AsheSkyler Feathered Jester

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    I am reminded of a rant a goth friend had once complaining about the difference between true goths and posers. With any luck, all the ASD posers will move on to the equivalent emo and scene fads and leave us real "goths" be.
     
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  16. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    My mind just short-circuits trying to grasp the concept of posing. I just don't understand such behavior. Yet I can grasp what trolling is. Am I just being Aspie here? That certain forms of deception simply escape me...:confused:

    I've also been the victim of catfishing. Makes me wonder if we're especially vulnerable to that ? Yet the phone scamming....ya can't get that past me. Weird, huh?
     
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  17. AsheSkyler

    AsheSkyler Feathered Jester

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    Posing makes sense to me, but I also grew up with my head in every animal encyclopedia I could get ahold of, so I dunno if it's an Aspie thing or not. I figure posers are those varmints that look like something dangerous so they don't get eaten so quickly themselves, or are one of those creepy critters like the flowery praying mantis so they can strike their target easier. Or, heck, maybe posers are more like octopi and just change colors depending on what mood they're in. :yum:
     
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  18. Judge

    Judge Well-Known Member

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    You mean as a sort of sub-conscious self-defense mechanism? Interesting...hmmmmm.

    LOL, I just figure I have enough work just being myself all the time! :confused:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  19. Spiller

    Spiller Just.. WEIRD!

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    Teenagers act out different personae until they settle on 'who' they want to portray to their peers, this is normal NT behavior, so may be considered subconcious self defence.
    This may be likened to an animals ability to mimic something bigger and scarier.
    To me though, 'posers' are those people who conciously mimic a group to impress others.
     
  20. apsie

    apsie Well-Known Member

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    It all ties in neatly with social structures and human evolution.
    Posing is trying to fit in to a certain type of group, because being alone is dangerous! Or so most think.
    Social death = real death to most.
    Everyone I know does it on occasion. Pretending, to be part of the many. Its safe and easy.

    In allot of ways, humans are still apes.
    Allot of the time, people can't break free from instinct.
    It may have been necessary back in the stoneage, for survival. Now its more of a PITA.
    What bother me is, it is 100% possible to break free of it, yet few do.
    I think it starts with self awareness.
     
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