1. Welcome to Autism Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Aspergers Syndrome, Autism, High Functioning Autism and related conditions.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Private Member only forums for more serious discussions that you may wish to not have guests or search engines access to.
    • Your very own blog. Write about anything you like on your own individual blog.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon! Please also check us out @ https://www.twitter.com/aspiescentral

Featured In a constant state of depression and isolation. Losing will to live

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Frostee, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. Frostee

    Frostee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Karma:
    +399
    I’ve just been in a constant state of depression with worries about Employment, isolation and the future. Big Time for the past few months.

    I’ve planned three trips away. With application to three jobs and nothing. I do worry that I am wasting my time.

    I am back attending my local Aspergers Peer Support group. And struggling. This week just had three friends there whom sat chatting to each other not bothering to include me.

    I don’t know. I feel that everyone treats me very poorly and has little respect for me. I am treated like the black sheep of the family and of the social group everywhere I go.

    I am bullied and ostracised everywhere I go. I do try to adopt an attitude of positivity but it starts to get exhausting.

    What I don’t understand is WHY people treat me this way. WHY they don’t return the effort.

    What is the difference between me and those people with Aspergers who have lots of friends?

    Am I ugly? Is my Introversion off putting? Am I off putting?

    I know that I am very quiet in group discussions due to low self confidence. Does this mean anything? No one actually bothers to include me in conversation.

    I constantly wonder why no one ever reaches out to me or talks to me. Why not? Surely someone is interested in me in this world?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 8
  2. Cazelle

    Cazelle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    110
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2019
    Karma:
    +200
    Hi Frostee, I'm sorry things are so tough for you right now. I'm not in the best space myself this morning (and I have ongoing depression so low spots are quite low) so I can relate to some degree. Have you seen anyone about your depression?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Wolf Prince

    Wolf Prince My future job title.

    Messages:
    844
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Karma:
    +1,288
    First relax. Your too tense. Calm yourself. Breath exhale that stress. Second you need to have a little faith in yourself. Do something to help build that faith. Workout, make something, do something that lifts you up. Sometimes we must pull ourselves out of ruts. Music, my faith in God, and exercising all helps me. And remember the future is always tommorrow not today. Utilize each day to help lift yourself out of depression.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  4. BrokenBoy

    BrokenBoy 戯言使い(Nonsense User)

    Messages:
    383
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2018
    Karma:
    +651
    I know that feel bro.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Karma:
    +2,419
    A couple of things here:

    Firstly, the bit about friends. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is. And I dont just mean the "how to get friends" aspect. I mean the idea of real VS fake friends. Just because you see someone that seems to have alot of friends... doesnt mean they actually do. Alot of people... particularly NTs... will hang out with others they couldnt care less about simply because it makes them appear more socially acceptable. That they're often miserable while doing this never seems to factor in.It's the same with alot of us on the spectrum. If you read alot of stories on this site or others, you hear ALOT about the lengths alot of us will go to in order to fit in.... and how it is NOT an enjoyable experience, to try to pretend to be something we are not, simply to be "acceptable". It is often referred to as "masking".

    Instead of doing that, look for places that are aligned with who you are. Hm, that's phrased really oddly. Like, okay. I'm a total geek, right? You wouldnt catch me dead at something like a bar or a sports event. I dont care how "acceptable" it'd make me to hang out with a bunch of drunks simply because it's "normal". I aint doing it. It'd be a waste of time and I'd loathe every second of it. Instead, I find places that specifically cater to the "geeky" sort. I go to conventions (anime/gaming) for instance. Or to tabletop gaming stores (which usually have a variety of events and rooms to play games in with others). I can be as bloody strange as I want at such places, because alot of those that go to these are "strange" in similar ways (and often very introverted). Instead of trying to pretend to be something I'm not... I go to places where there's no need for any of that silly masking. This is also very helpful for finding REAL friends. When you're at a place where you have to put in real EFFORT just to even fit in, you have a very, very low chance of ACTUALLY making friends. But when you find people who are GENUINELY already similar in personality/interests, a place where you dont NEED to try to fit in... that's where you can meet real friends instead of fake ones.

    Note though that making friends is still hard. This isnt the sort of thing where you can have a go at it for 2 weeks and expect it to work. That's not how it goes. This sort of thing takes time.... alot of it. You cant give up at any point. But still, that's my main suggestion: Change up WHERE you're looking to meet people. Consider who YOU are, and what sorts of interests you have, what sorts of places you like... dont go to places or join groups simply because OTHERS like them or because they seem popular. That'll get you nowhere and is the single biggest mistake most people make with this.


    Hell, trying that sort of thing, you might find that you have more self confidence. The whole "masking" behavior... it's really not good for us, mentally. It's draining and depressing, and usually, it shows. But when you're in a place/group that automatically makes perfect sense to you, and has like-minded people from the start? It's soooooooooo much easier. And that'll do wonders for your confidence.


    Second, that "peer group" you mention. Dont expect too much from those. They're often organized by people that dont REALLY know what they're doing. I remember one time, I was in one of those... my father had set it up. It had seemed helpful at the time. But once I got there, well... there was about 6 of us in the group, with the 7th person being the one that ran it, the professional. But this one guy... one of the six... ruined the whole thing. EVERY session... every single one... he'd hog all the talking time by ranting on and on about how bad his life was (which always ALWAYS boiled down to "I dont have a girlfriend"). The rest of us couldnt get a word in edgewise. Waste of time, the whole thing. I had to drive like 40 minutes to get there too. And it wasnt the first time i'd find one of these "helpful" groups that just failed. "Support" group. Hah.


    Planning trips away: It's not wasting time, and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. Granted, you need to make sure you are financially set for those, but after that? Nothing wrong with it. You have the means to travel, and you want to? Go for it. Just consider your resources and situation before doing so. And if other people look down on you for it? Well, bloody tough... for them, that is. They aint worth your time.

    And neither are the bullies. Though, note that this part also goes into what I said earlier. You'll run into WAY less bullies if you find a place where you dont need to do that masking crap, because you wont seem out of place from the start. But also, places/groups that arent considered the "norm" by society seem to attract very few bullies to begin with.


    And lastly: Dont worry about the amount of friends you do or dont have. ONE true lasting friend is worth far, far more than 100 fake ones that just hang out with you because they need to hang out with someone. I know in this age of Facebook and Twitter there's this constant push to have 2 billion friends, but at it's core that's just marketing crap (and most people dont realize this... just as those businesses dont want them to); those businesses go to ALOT of trouble to push that idea into people's heads. Not because any of it is actually important, but because it gets people to spend money or look at ads on their sites while going for that coveted number. Dont fall for it. Number of friends is irrelevant. TRUE friendship is what's important.


    Oh, and if you want to meet like-minded people who arent snotballs... why not start with this forum?

    Sorry, that was long. But there's alot to say about a complicated subject like this. I'm done rambling now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 3
  6. GadAbout

    GadAbout Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    520
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Karma:
    +1,419
    Responding not to just today's thread but to several recent past threads, there are several reasons why you find yourself in this pickle. One is a lack of initiative, by which I mean you do struggle with starting yourself up to do something that could be rewarding or at least lead to growth. Secondly, your social perceptions are very off - by which I mean how you perceive yourself, other people, and the interaction between self and others, are inaccurate and unhelpful. For instance, Misery just mentioned that you seem to think everybody else is doing well or has many friends, but that can be wrong.

    Also, you have a sort of entitlement, which I'm sure you won't agree with but hear me out. You feel a supervisor should structure your work projects and provide a lot of emotional support for you. You feel your sister or parents should drive you around after 9 p.m. so you get a little recreation, rather than figuring out how to entertain yourself. You think that by applying to three jobs, you should have an offer or at least a show of interest. Other people do not feel entitled to these things, but you seem to, and you get angry when you don't have them.

    I'm afraid there is not an easy fix to these factors. I hope you regularly engage in therapy or counseling because your combination of traits will make it hard to figure all this out on your own. Employment is going to be hard for you to come by and you may have to accept work that feels "beneath" you (there's that entitlement issue). You will not find friends without exercising initiative, for instance being a good conversationalist on your own rather than waiting for others to engage you. Social perception is going to be hard and slow for you and some emotional support and trust in a counselor will be necessary.

    Try to remind yourself you are getting a car in just a little while, and enjoy the freedom and convenience that will bring you. In the meantime, try to adopt suggestions people have already made, such as taking a little more initiative to get out of the house.

    Wishing you good experiences.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Running Girl

    Running Girl Member

    Messages:
    96
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Karma:
    +230
    Misery makes a lot of good points and suggestions. Wolf Prince too. Music and exercise works good for me too, so i combine them by running with an ipod. Theres a phrase, " Move a muscle; change a thought
    " its hard to think your way out of negative thinking, you know? Dont discount antidepressants. If you really need them then you gotta take them cause they work. But thats another loaded topic, for another thread. Make a list of stuff you actually enjoy (not stuff you wish you enjoyed, or stuff you think you should enjoy). Do that stuff! We all seem to struggle socially. Its part of being on the spectrum. So is needing lots of alone time. Your interpretation of things may not be accurate, and feelings arent facts. So hang on, dont do anything drastic, and know you're not alone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,794
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Karma:
    +7,660
    In this thread and in your previous threads is such an incredible wealth of wisdom. I don't think anything needs to be added to them and that you have all the answers you need within grasp. I've stopped saying as much in this and the last one or two because others have articulated so well everything that needs to be said. My only advice is to read your threads multiples times, on different days and at different times.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Baeraad

    Baeraad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2019
    Karma:
    +319
    Honestly, I wish I knew. I do better than some people on the spectrum, and worse than a lot of others. And I have absolutely no idea what separates me from either side. Sometimes people just sort of... randomly attaches themselves to me. Which is nice. But I have no idea why or how to encourage that to happen more often.
     
  10. Frostee

    Frostee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Karma:
    +399
    Thank you for your reply. I will explain reasons partly as to why I am quite often depressed and factors that exacerbate the depression that enhance it.

    - I know that most people only have a small number of friends, BUT they still have people who talk to them, give them attention and whom they are willing to go out with. I don’t have that at all. Honestly I get the impression or vibe that most people have a negative impression of me as very few people actually talk to me when I attend social groups. Then I have issues like people ostracising me or closing the door to a friendship with me because I have this condition.
    - I know, I was saying this today and have often thought about it. My mother discourages me from diverging away from Aspergers support groups but I am not going to get anywhere socially at those. I don’t know where I could go that I would fit in (at 23) without a car and in a rural area. There isn’t much to do here.
    - That’s alright. I just want to be somewhere where I am accepted and people are OPEN to the idea of befriending me.

    Regarding Peer Group - this is an external factor.

    I only attend this because I have nowhere else to go socially. I have big issues with the people there:
    - The guy who I used to talk to and enjoy talking to has stopped attending because he has got a job. Although clearly he wasn’t as interested in talking to me as I was to him given that he stopped attending.
    - There is a mini clique there whom invited me out, then ditched me and avoid me like the plague. These people make the whole experience uncomfortable for me. I have NOT done anything for this intense dislike. The avoiding is so serious that they will go awkward routes on day trips to avoid meeting me I.e going to a train station 10 miles away. This hurts me immensely.
    - The people at the group have increased issues that I do not have and often a lack of maturity.

    Other issues that I have:
    - As I said earlier the negative vibe people get off me. For ex, (although trivial) today a religious fanatic approached the guy beside me rather than myself.
    - People not bothering with me because of my social status and condition. I have met a few who I know are closed off to a friendship with me because of this.
    - Every acquaintanceship I have fails, as I stop bothering and the other person does not reach out to me. This always happens to me and I do not know why.
    - Nobody values the “acquaintanceship” that I have with them as much as I do.

    Few people actually talk to me or bother with me and I DO NOT know why?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. Wolf Prince

    Wolf Prince My future job title.

    Messages:
    844
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2019
    Karma:
    +1,288
    Maybe your Batman?:p
     
  12. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Karma:
    +2,419

    Regarding the very last bit: It might be that you're doing something that you dont quite realize, and this pushes people away. From what I've seen in others on the spectrum... and what I've seen in myself... *alot* of us do things, without knowing, that drive others away.

    For instance, consider how most NTs and even some on the spectrum communicate. It aint just vocally... there is a huge emphasis on body language. One common trait on the spectrum though is that not only do we not quite grasp body language (even if we think we do, which is a very important distinction) we often dont even NOTICE it. Provided we're even looking at the other person to begin with, and many of us dont.

    This means two things: We may be essentially putting off an aura of "dont get near me" without even knowing it due to our own body language, which we arent noticing, and also, for those of us that cant look people in the eye, that's another "get away from me" sign to most people. Try to explain to them WHY you wont look at them and all you'll get is utter confusion.

    When things like that are going on, most people will respond automatically. They dont even have to think about it. You look like you want to melt into the walls? Most will ignore you. Look real angry all the time? They'll outright avoid you (this is what happens in my case).


    There's a couple of other things you said here though that dont add up, that I think are worth mentioning. For instance, this part:

    "The guy who I used to talk to and enjoy talking to has stopped attending because he has got a job. Although clearly he wasn’t as interested in talking to me as I was to him given that he stopped attending."

    See, there's a lack of logic there. You first say: He stopped attending because he got a job. Okay, fine. But then you say: It means he doesnt want to talk because he doesnt attend anymore. Er... no? That's not how things work. If he got a job, and CANT go... then he cant go. You could be his best friend in the universe and he still wouldnt show up at that group meeting. That's how it is, when you have a job... as an employee, you dont get to make those choices, your boss does. For all you know, maybe he'd really love to go back to that group. But he doesnt have a choice in that matter.

    And here's the thing: Did you ever consider doing something like exchanging phone numbers with him? If you want to guarantee that contact doesnt have to stop, you pretty much *have* to do this. Particularly with a pre-set meeting group like that. Sometimes a group like that can be outright forced to disband for reasons beyond anyone's control... so if there's someone you like there, BAM, they're gone... unless you got contact info.


    The other thing I want to quote is:

    "Every acquaintanceship I have fails, as I stop bothering and the other person does not reach out to me. This always happens to me and I do not know why."

    Your answer to that is right in there: "I stopped bothering". If you want to keep things going... dont stop. Gotta understand, not everyone is all that proactive with this stuff. Unless you've become REALLY close friends, you cant guarantee that someone will just call you out of the blue. If someone you know is like a total extrovert, then yes, it's likely to happen. But if they're a total introvert... you could wait all year and never get a call. Not because they lose interest in you, but because it simply never occurs to them to use the phone. Hell, they may think to themselves "huh, I havent heard from him in awhile, I wonder how he's doing?" and it STILL wont occur to them to use the phone, because... they just dont use the phone. That sort of thing. I know that one from experience because I do it myself. It really, genuinely will not occur to me to use the phone to call/text people or anything like that... I always wait for anyone to contact me. I'm as introverted as one can get. Fortunately, those few friends I do have... who I've known for MANY years... understand this. But many people dont. Which is why it's so hard for introverts to make friends with each other, heh.


    Lastly, I will say that the lack of a car really can hurt things. Are you unable to drive, or simply just not able to buy one? Not having one sure doesnt help. I mean, it's not like it's impossible to have friends without one... heck, could use the internet or something... but it sure as heck makes it harder to get together! And yes, I know, the other person might have a car, but you cant expect only one side to do all of the driving... gas is pricey, after all, so that's a problem sometimes.


    Anyway, dont give up, and dont get discouraged. No matter how you look at it, no matter what advice you're given, no matter what you try... making friends is difficult. An annoying fact, but a fact nonetheless. Keep persisting at it no matter what, and you will get what you want.

    Also I apologize if I misunderstood anything you wrote. I typed all of this shortly after waking up, since that's when I noticed it while quickly checking the forum site.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Frostee

    Frostee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    440
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Karma:
    +399
    [​IMG]
    No, your post is absolutely fine. It’s great to have someone talk to me on an equal footing and emphasise what they’ve got to say without critiquing myself.

    Firstly, regarding this guy. I enjoy talking to him, he talked to me but I don’t know if he felt the same way. He now attends another club where he seems to have met a number of people whom he’s befriended. I’ve messaged him a few times but he doesn’t talk much. I don’t know if he would want to hang out, we’ve never done that. So he might think it weird if I asked. I don’t know him that well, he was just someone I enjoyed talking to and connected with in the group. I don’t have that now that he’s gone. He stopped attending because it wasn’t seemingly doing enough for him.

    I’ve noticed he doesn’t really say much to my messages lately anyway. This sort of confused me with Aspies, why do they act interested and then go silent all of a sudden?

    (Latest convo just had him saying “yea” and not replying to my last message)

    Body language. I don’t know, I think I creep people out, but it’s hard to know. I know I have low confidence and people don’t want to bother with that.

    Might stop attending that group anyhow as the leader is quite patronising and took me off her service user list (very disheartening, now a great deal of poor trust) so doesn’t appear to think that I need major help, despite struggling socially everyday. This is of course something that really annoys me.. just because I got a degree doesn’t mean my Aspergers has disappeared!!

    I do feel out of place at the group with the things that they do (I.e summer trips). It just feels very child like (I.e going to the cinema) and not something an adult should be doing. Sort of made me feel more depressed that I am stuck with this group and I cannot do more reasonable activities.

    It’s a pity the clique made it so awkward otherwise i’d set up a FB group and we could all have met up outside the group to do something more interesting.

    I stop bothering with the acquaintances because I don’t get the vibe that they’re interested (and they never are because they don’t get back to me). I had three acquaintances at University, they all ended because I felt that they just turned up because they had nothing else to do (the first one kept “forgetting” and arranging other things) and they always seemed bored when I contacted them.

    I also contacted a guy who I used to speak to at school who was very harsh with me (recently). Telling me that he was indifferent to me and that he has no sympathy for me just because I have Aspergers.

    That’s what i’m up against. People who think I have no problems and/or people who think i’m making up my problems. So it’s a constant struggle for me to get help and support.

    And there is nowhere for me to go and socialise with people my age who will respect me with an openness to friendship or at least being friendly.

    S
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
  14. Misery

    Misery Photo-Negative V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    1,126
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Karma:
    +2,419
    You know, this bit here sticks out at me:

    "I do feel out of place at the group with the things that they do (I.e summer trips). It just feels very child like (I.e going to the cinema) and not something an adult should be doing. Sort of made me feel more depressed that I am stuck with this group and I cannot do more reasonable activities."

    That could actually be a big part of it. If people think you're too "serious", which is the only word I can think of here, that can push some people away. Particularly since, well... honestly none of the things you list are truly childlike. That might be something to reconsider. People cant just be hyper-serious and do work all the time with nothing else... it's hardly healthy. Entire entertainment industries exist for a reason! Dont worry so much about being childish. Have some fun, live a little! No, I dont mean "go get drunk at a party like a moron". But just... something. Anything!

    Just because you're an adult, doesnt mean you cant do fun stuff. Hell, I'm older than you, and I'm into both gaming and cosplay. And wouldnt ya know it, everyone else I know who likes those things are ALSO adults. Heck, hardly see any actual kids at conventions... it's ALL adults.

    The way that I look at it, the true hallmark of an adult isnt the choice of things they do... but the realization of choice VS expectations. I always say, I'm an adult, and I can make my own decisions... if I want to sit here and watch freaking Pokemon, then I'm bloody well going to do that. I'm an adult, and I can, and if someone doesnt like it... bloody tough. That, at least as I see it, is true maturity. To realize that you are in control... not others' opinions or assumptions of you. In other words... the "childish" label is just that. A label. And labels really can be problematic, as many of us on this forum know...

    Seriously though. Trying some new things, FUN things, with people... that could go a long way. It could go way further than any other advice I could conceivably give you here. People bond over that "childish" stuff, you know. Hell, that's one of the reasons why some people go to theaters or whatever in the first place.

    Just something to think about.


    Anyway, yeah, I emphasize with the whole "creep people out" bit. Pretty sure I give off the same vibe. Which honestly has it's uses, but other times it can be rather frustrating. I dont know of any easy way to deal with it. I kinda suspect that it happens with ALOT of people on the spectrum, though I am not clear on the cause. But you sure arent alone in it.

    Also, on the note of people forgetting things: I know there's a tendency to assume they are just faking that, but... no, it could really be just them forgetting things. I run into this one ALOT. I have a memory like a cheese grater. Genuinely cannot remember my own age sometimes. Or much of anything else. When I tell people I forgot something... it's because I forgot something. But WAY too often I'm accused of just faking it. It is... irritating. It's like, no, Bob, I'm not saying I forgot your birthday because I didnt want to come... I'm saying I forgot it just like I forgot what year it is, among all sorts of other things I abruptly cant remember. So yeah... just be careful with that one. It's best to never make assumptions. If you want to be completely sure of someone's motivations... ask them directly, and make it clear you want an equally direct answer.

    There's probably other stuff I could say, but I need to head out the door. Gots me some driving to do, even if I'm not entirely sure where it is I need to go. But I wanted to say those few things before I forgot, which I would have. Ya know, it'd be just super if I could just remember stuff once in awhile. Tired of living in the clouds here. But that's another story.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Fino

    Fino Alex V.I.P Member

    Messages:
    3,794
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2018
    Karma:
    +7,660
    The thing about creeping people out is addressed in Autistimatic's latest video!

    And the link with the texts--those aren't texts that demand an answer, what you said is kind of an end or kinda just there. All he could do is agree or some other "yea" kind of thing.
     
  16. HappynessMad

    HappynessMad Uncertainly...

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Karma:
    +14
    I don't really know you... but I will say this. It is a cliche but true thing: Life is tough. You want to live it and you breathe in it, but some things are killing you. I felt this too. However I try to keep moving no matter how tough it is.

    Has your support group helped you in any way, shape or form? Has any of your family or friends offered to help? Has there any been success in your applications? I don't how I can really help, but I hope words can mean to you.
     
  17. Noelle

    Noelle Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2018
    Karma:
    +89
    I agree with this. I struggle with entitlement too sometimes and am constantly having to remind myself to be mindful of it. I think GadAbout is spot on. You seem to expect people to do things for you. Sorry if that sounds harsh. You're definitely not alone in that feeling. But you're going to have to make a decision to drop the entitlement. Occasional Cognitive Behaviour Therapy helps me. And lots of prayer.

    All the best to you.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Tony Ramirez

    Tony Ramirez Christian with Asperger's Syndrome

    Messages:
    322
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2019
    Karma:
    +336
    I also joined a bunch of church groups and I agree with the OP. I since dropped them except for one group.

    I fd being around socially drains me physical because of constant small talk. Having to be asked questions "How is your day week? and" What have you been up too? is annoying.

    Then it is the same old back and forth talking briefly then they stop talking to me while they all talk amongst themselves. It gets quite irritating.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1