I think society has a problem

[Kevin L.]

I had an epiphany about all of this while I was working on some writing the other day.

We autistic people tend to be very literal . . . but does anyone really think about what this literalism creates? Please follow my ideas for a moment.

There is a way of being passive-aggressive called "malicious compliance." Malicious compliance is when a kid gets an assignment from his history teacher to write a letter home from a fictional 19th century Chinese railroad worker, and the kid complies by having his friend from Hong Kong translate the letter into Cantonese, and hands a letter into his teacher that's written in the Chinese alphabet.

We autistic people take things literally, and I've begun to wonder if this is interpreted by our employers as being passive-aggressive, and/or as malicious compliance.

The philosopher Aaron James wrote a book outlining his theory of assholes, and to be an asshole, three criteria need to be met:

1) A sense of entitlement.
2) The person is shielded from sanctions and push-back from the consequences of his sense of entitlement. This protection can be because of circumstances (you knock someone down in a crowd and disappear by mingling into a mass of people), or it can be because of your poisition (a CEO who sexually harrasses a female janitor).
3) This sense of entitlement (and acting on it) is an ingrained, basic quality of the person in question, and not something than manifests itself once in a great while.

It occurred to me that our autistic literalism may create the idea that we're passive-aggressive assholes, and nobody wants to be a friend with an asshole, nobody wants to work with an asshole, nobody wants to go out on a limb for an asshole, and--most of the time--nobody wants to have sex with an asshole.

This creates a real dilemma, as I believe that our literalism comes from two sources:

1) Sensory issues. Mahrabian--in 1967--discovered that human communication is 55% tone of voice, about 38% body language, and only about 7% comes from what is being said. Sensory issues with sound obscure 55%, our problems with body language filter out 38%, which only leaves us with the 7% to work with . . . and people wonder why we're so literal.
2) Social blindness. If we don't understand nuance, then--again--we become very literal.

So, I believe that this literalism causes us to be perceived as assholes by the rest of the world, as this literalism resembles the passive-aggressive behavior of someone who is being maliciously compliant.

I've run into this myself any number of times.

When I was a kid, my mother screamed in my face while shaking me back and forth that I was never to talk to strangers.

Also, I was told that just because someone else does something that's wrong . . . it's not an excuse for me to do something wrong (like doing drugs, or shoplifting). I'm expected to do the right thing even when other people are in the wrong.

I would then get punished because I refused to talk with or acknowledge a substitute teacher in school, because she was a stranger.

My parents would yell at me because I could see all the other kids talking to her, but--in my mind--just because the other kids were doing something wrong, it doesn't mean that I can do something that's wrong.

So (in this example), my autism caused me to be seen as an asshole (as defined by Aaron James).

I wonder if this is why we have problems with relationships, why we are bullied, why we are chronically unemployed, and why we have issues with education and schooling.

 

[Gerontius]

For me, writing is a release. It tidies up all those emotions and plants them somewhere else while setting me free. Then l release the need to ruminate about my random day of insulting monkeys that descended and decided l am here to provide entertainment value to their empty existance.

Since going thru my divorce, it seems better for me to stay in and away from people. My world is easier to make sense of. People have hidden agendas and their agendas are usually pretty evil. So relaxing by myself seems helpful.

There seem to be a lot of people on this website who write!

 

[Gerontius]

You've put a smile on my face. I thought I was the only one. Additionally, I can barely sleep. Right now, it is midnight for me. I keep thinking about all of my bad luck. It keeps me awake through the night. I'm literally an insomniac who happens to be deteriorating on a physiological level. I can't go to sleep until I've written something down on this forum in order to assuage the turbulence of my unsavory emotions. I feel myself falling to pieces under the weight of my turbulent past and the emotions that arise from them. I've begged my mother for sleeping pills, but she's afraid I might end up becoming a drug addict. I'm sorry. I have to go to sleep. I'll talk to you in the morning. Damn it. I'm afraid I might wake up in the afternoon. It's a vicious cycle of sleep deprivation and waking up at the wrong times.

I'm also staying up too late. My bedtime is between 2 and 3 AM. One day I'm going to be awake all night long.

If you want sleeping pills have you tried melatonin? I have some & would tell you how effective it was, if only I had the self-discipline and resolve to take them. I'm worried about sleeping the rest of the next day but it sounds like melatonin isn't super strong. When I'm stressed I know I quit sleeping, and it does become a vicious cycle.

I stay up late just to keep control of something--control of being awake in the dark hours, when it's just me in a quiet room with a couple of small lamps burning, waiting for nothing really. Hope you got a good night's sleep & are able to start getting some healing from all this.

 

[paloftoon]

So I’m not on the spectrum? I think I’m autistic but I blame other people for external situations and not being able to fit in.

Dare I say, if we have to ask, we probably are? lol.
Use your strengths to your advantage and try to keep improving your weaknesses. That's all we can do.

 

[Aspychata]

Think there are groups of people who prey on people. l had no idea that these so called groups existed. But now l realize it and talk to no one now because l see how prevalent they are in this state. The city l live in has ton of these sub-groups. It's disappointing. And l definitely don't gaslight other people just to feel better about myself or my boyfriend tells me to do it.

 

[Els]

You've put a smile on my face. I thought I was the only one. Additionally, I can barely sleep. Right now, it is midnight for me. I keep thinking about all of my bad luck. It keeps me awake through the night. I'm literally an insomniac who happens to be deteriorating on a physiological level. I can't go to sleep until I've written something down on this forum in order to assuage the turbulence of my unsavory emotions. I feel myself falling to pieces under the weight of my turbulent past and the emotions that arise from them. I've begged my mother for sleeping pills, but she's afraid I might end up becoming a drug addict. I'm sorry. I have to go to sleep. I'll talk to you in the morning. Damn it. I'm afraid I might wake up in the afternoon. It's a vicious cycle of sleep deprivation and waking up at the wrong times.

If you're dealing with something like PTSD, it might be helpful to look into that.
Sleep is extremely important and it affects your perspective on things, honestly, it's a basic need. There are pills to help sleeping which aren't addictive and to take ponctually. I've been prescribed anti histaminics because they're also used as sleeping pills and lower anxiety. They worked well and it's a ponctual use. There are options that won't make you a drug addict, there isn't just one option. There are many. Most doctors will start prescribing you stuffs that aren't addictive and pretty light, honestly. If you can sort this situation out I think it would be a good start. Sleeping really impacts living. Taking substances that help you sleep, depending on what they are, won't make you a "drug addict", it's a bit dramaturgic. You can evaluate the benefits (or not) of whatever exists and is proposed to you and be wise in the choice.
Good luck.

 

[Mia]

The truth is, us Autistic people, are victims of society. We are victims of perpetual and endless suffering in a cycle of victimization that never ends.
Does anyone feel like this? If you don't, please give me your opinion. I know that each of us have had different sets of experiences so I'm not judging.

I've never let myself be knowingly victimized, although it happened when I was younger, if I could I fought back eventually. Usually with my intelligence and rarely kicks and punches. It's a tool many aspies have, we tend toward out-thinking others.
I'm married to another aspie, and both of us achieved much of what we wanted in life. Through hard work while in school, at jobs, and in society. We used our intelligence to get what we wanted. Certainly we've been victimized over time, but not overly. We learn quickly, and it rarely happens more than once. Society doesn't know I'm autistic, they just know they don't quite like me because I won't fit in and do what they want. And I question too many things.

 

[menander]

Humans don't like one another. They have always enslaved, battled, killed, harmed and destroyed one another. Sure there are good things, but name one other species that just kills its own for no really good reason. A dog might kill another dog. It seems Chimps will kill other groups of chimps for resources, but we will line up hundreds of men with rifles facing other hundreds of men with rifles and actually tell them to walk forward. See movies like The Patriot or Glory. Just falling like dominoes. And why? To stop the even worse horror of people chaining and owning people and their perceived "right" to do so!

Whenever you are loved or fed or allowed to wear the clothes you like or are not feeling a fist against your head------you are lucky. It's not the reverse. You are not a select victim. We are all victims of being human.

As attributed to Jim Morrison: "No One Here Gets out Alive."

 

[SimplyWandering]

Els put it poetically above...

Yes, we are discriminated by the mass for the things we do or happen to be.., (minorities,lgbtq,gender, weird, special , etc.)

We cant expect to change others. Racism, sexism, etc. will never be eradicated, they will always exist in some form. Instead of putting ourselves in labeled boxes, do something productive and dont get bothered by the rest of the stuff.

The more important message is that You have to lift yourself above that and fight for what you want , Without putting others down or bothered by how they perceive you.

 

[nowwhat]

This is why I am glad to not be offically diagnosed. I avoid the label and the mostly bad things that come with it. My family and some of my friends know, but without an offical Dx, I don't have to disclose it on job applications, and infact, any speculation in that direction by my employer can be quickly shot down. Regardless, society at large will not and cannot understand and has no empathy. I do what I can to earn my place and stand up to those who cross lines. I have made my way in the world; not the way I once thought I would travel, nor one I really wanted, but, here I am and many things have turned out splendidly, for all the horrid, shameful, terrible failures. I have learned to expect very little good from life and people. Paradoxically, this has enabled me to be grateful for the things that have gone well.
I'm on to them, and they know it.

 

[Major Tom]

I think all societies do have problems, there unfortunately is no perfect society, nor can there be. This is because everyone is different I think.

I think it's better to focus on the good aspects of whatever society you live in, than to see the negative sides (especially if that's most of what you see). I know this as I used to focus a lot on the negative rather than the positive and it nearly killed me.(literally)

Contrarily, if nobody sees the flaws in society that means it will never change. So if you do focus on it, focus on what you CAN change, not so much on what you can't. For example if you are walking on the beach and you see lots of trash, instead of letting it infuriate you, go and get a bunch of trash bags and pick it up. People can and do catch onto that sort of thing and that's a small way we can make the world a better place to live in.

 

[SusanLR]

I've never let myself be victimized, although it happened when I was younger, if I could I fought back eventually. Usually with my intelligence and some times kicks and punches. It's a tool many aspies have, we tend toward out-thinking others.

This is true. True for myself for sure.
I never feel victimized and will stand my ground.
I think the use of intelligence and the out-thinking of others IS an aspie quality and I use it all the time.
That's why I never feel low self esteem when someone puts me down verbally or elsewise.
An ex-boyfriend told me I never say "I'm sorry."
That's because I'm not. I am very careful of what I say, even in a time of anger.
Hearing people say things like "I'm sorry, I didn't mean those things I said..."
doesn't cut it. If you didn't mean what you said, then why did you say it?

 

[AspieOtaku]

Were treated as second class citizens and sometimes 3rd class citizens.

 

[Jobin Reed]

It's funny but I think Autistic people are treated differently. I know I've been treated differently due to my condition. It's funny, but I think that society has a lack of accountability for the way it treats minorities like Autistic people. They kick, beat and pummel us into a corner until we have no other recourse but to snap. Some of us never had the same opportunities as neurotypicals to have a good career, a clean bill of health, friends or a girlfriend or children. We've had the worst odds in life. Some of us aren't financially independent and have to rely on dependents to get through life. Some of these dependents are abusive and take advantage of us. When we seek outside help, we are spurned by the community like its our fault. In the course of these events, we develop a crutch like a dark sense of humor to combat the harsh realities of life. Then to add insult to injury, they ask us what's wrong and when we tell them, they force feed us medication and they try to sedate us when nothing is wrong with us. Things are terribly wrong with society. Yet, they blame us for their mistakes. They tell us that if we continue to react poorly to certain external situations, we are only victimizing ourselves. The truth is, us Autistic people, are victims of society. We are victims of perpetual and endless suffering in a cycle of victimization that never ends.

Does anyone feel like this? If you don't, please give me your opinion. I know that each of us have had different sets of experiences so I'm not judging.

This is so true, and the realization of it all made me cry.

 

[Tom]

The problem may simply be we are in the wrong society. Perhaps we are better fitted to a Eusocial one. I think the amazing Naked Mole Rats might be a better match. Only one female in each group mates, the rest, about 300 individuals, are specialized workers, food gatherers, soldiers, nurses, etc. They live underground and are unusually temperature sensitive and don't wear tight fitting clothes. Although only the size of a hamster there tunnel can can stretch 3 kilometers. They can live for 30 years which is basically unheard of in rodents and are almost impervious to cancer (a trick we can certainly use).

Eusociality

The evolution of social behavior at its most intimate and complex degree is found in eusocial animals. Eusocial species live in colonies. Only a relatively small fraction of the animals in the colony reproduce; the non-reproductive colony members provide resources, defense, and collective care of the young. The list of known eusocial animals includes ants, termites, some wasps, some bees, a small number of aphid and thrip species, two species of mammal (the naked mole rat and the Damaraland mole rat), and multiple species of reef-dwelling shrimp.

How Does Social Behavior Evolve? | Learn Science at Scitable.

 

[AspieOtaku]

Society is not always friendly to us we have bullies from hate groups, sometimes cops trying to arrest us for no reason or send us to the lony bin, it sucks society is ignorant they just want us locked away in jail or a loony bin restrained and sedated its sad but true.

 

[AspieOtaku]

A typical situation with police encountering those on the spectrum, i had my few shares of being assumed im on drugs by stimming and being detained for it it freaking sucks.I always cooperate its scary though.Im left shaking and scared for a good half hour till i can calm down the anxiety and nerves sucks.Its very scary sometimes i fear police at times now even though im a good guy too since these incidents they either want to arrest me for no reason or send me back to the psyche ward under a 5150, its very scary. Im supposed to be on their side a good guy too but, they want to find reasons to arrest me, detain me or commit me for being autistic, i thought cops were supposed to be the good guys it makes me sad.The problem with society to this day.If Dian wasnt there hed be in jail or a psyche ward simply because the cops dont understand.

 

[Turbocks]

When I have been ill treated by older people because of my aspergers I tend to remember it or at least the parts of it that hurt me the most and these memories can go years back in time and still haunt me.

The disgusting part is that these vile people who are usually neurotypicals sometimes have a tendency to get very aggressive and defensive when confronted and usually they shift the blame onto me instead which is even more disgusting and insensitive .

There are some people who hurt me so much psychologically even if it only happened a few times that I despise everything about them.

I know about a teacher who works at my high school that looks like keemstar that I hate so much because of several instances where he abused me verbally and psychologically such as following after me or yelling at me, and making fun of my stuttering because I was scared of him which he refused to take seriously because he just said "stop joking around" several times like the true jerkface he really is when not with the teachers or other people in high positions in my high school .

Even more messed up is that most people who have worked with him say he is a nice person which could be because he only respects those in higher positions of power.

I do not easily forget what these monsters have done to me so forgiving these types of people is hard if not impossible , also there are those people that only say they are sorry but don't actually mean it which can happen in toxic relationships .

 

[Cinco]

I agree but I don't think "society" should conform to induviduals, but rather the other way around.
Just seems counterintuitive to me

 

[Siam333]

I feel this wholeheartedly. The school system beat me down so I bit, scratched, bartered, worked hard, begged, and climbed my way to the top. It's been about x10 harder for me even with something as simple as APD than it has been for the neurotypical kids. I don't get my needs met, and they don't like me.

I say that's too bad for them. Because I'm a good kid, a good student, I don't seek revenge against them, I do not complain a whole lot, I'm quiet, and I'm patient. They're missing out on me. And if they don't want the benefits of me being there for them and supporting them, that is fine by me.

It took me a while to realize what I am worth as a human being, and that I deserve to be cared for by people who care about me, but I'm glad I did. And I hope everyone else who is suffering from insecurities like I did can come to that conclusion too.