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Featured I think society has a problem

Discussion in 'General Autism Discussion' started by Mister Anonymity, Jul 25, 2020.

  1. Kevin L.

    Kevin L. Well-Known Member

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    I had an epiphany about all of this while I was working on some writing the other day.

    We autistic people tend to be very literal . . . but does anyone really think about what this literalism creates? Please follow my ideas for a moment.

    There is a way of being passive-aggressive called "malicious compliance." Malicious compliance is when a kid gets an assignment from his history teacher to write a letter home from a fictional 19th century Chinese railroad worker, and the kid complies by having his friend from Hong Kong translate the letter into Cantonese, and hands a letter into his teacher that's written in the Chinese alphabet.

    We autistic people take things literally, and I've begun to wonder if this is interpreted by our employers as being passive-aggressive, and/or as malicious compliance.

    The philosopher Aaron James wrote a book outlining his theory of assholes, and to be an asshole, three criteria need to be met:

    1) A sense of entitlement.
    2) The person is shielded from sanctions and push-back from the consequences of his sense of entitlement. This protection can be because of circumstances (you knock someone down in a crowd and disappear by mingling into a mass of people), or it can be because of your poisition (a CEO who sexually harrasses a female janitor).
    3) This sense of entitlement (and acting on it) is an ingrained, basic quality of the person in question, and not something than manifests itself once in a great while.

    It occurred to me that our autistic literalism may create the idea that we're passive-aggressive assholes, and nobody wants to be a friend with an asshole, nobody wants to work with an asshole, nobody wants to go out on a limb for an asshole, and--most of the time--nobody wants to have sex with an asshole.

    This creates a real dilemma, as I believe that our literalism comes from two sources:

    1) Sensory issues. Mahrabian--in 1967--discovered that human communication is 55% tone of voice, about 38% body language, and only about 7% comes from what is being said. Sensory issues with sound obscure 55%, our problems with body language filter out 38%, which only leaves us with the 7% to work with . . . and people wonder why we're so literal.
    2) Social blindness. If we don't understand nuance, then--again--we become very literal.

    So, I believe that this literalism causes us to be perceived as assholes by the rest of the world, as this literalism resembles the passive-aggressive behavior of someone who is being maliciously compliant.

    I've run into this myself any number of times.

    When I was a kid, my mother screamed in my face while shaking me back and forth that I was never to talk to strangers.

    Also, I was told that just because someone else does something that's wrong . . . it's not an excuse for me to do something wrong (like doing drugs, or shoplifting). I'm expected to do the right thing even when other people are in the wrong.

    I would then get punished because I refused to talk with or acknowledge a substitute teacher in school, because she was a stranger.

    My parents would yell at me because I could see all the other kids talking to her, but--in my mind--just because the other kids were doing something wrong, it doesn't mean that I can do something that's wrong.

    So (in this example), my autism caused me to be seen as an asshole (as defined by Aaron James).

    I wonder if this is why we have problems with relationships, why we are bullied, why we are chronically unemployed, and why we have issues with education and schooling.

    9780804171359_p0_v2_s250x250.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  2. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

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    There seem to be a lot of people on this website who write!
     
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  3. Gerontius

    Gerontius Active Member

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    I'm also staying up too late. My bedtime is between 2 and 3 AM. One day I'm going to be awake all night long.

    If you want sleeping pills have you tried melatonin? I have some & would tell you how effective it was, if only I had the self-discipline and resolve to take them. I'm worried about sleeping the rest of the next day but it sounds like melatonin isn't super strong. When I'm stressed I know I quit sleeping, and it does become a vicious cycle.

    I stay up late just to keep control of something--control of being awake in the dark hours, when it's just me in a quiet room with a couple of small lamps burning, waiting for nothing really. Hope you got a good night's sleep & are able to start getting some healing from all this.
     
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  4. paloftoon

    paloftoon Well-Known Member

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    Dare I say, if we have to ask, we probably are? lol.
    Use your strengths to your advantage and try to keep improving your weaknesses. That's all we can do.
     
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  5. Aspychata

    Aspychata Serenity waves, beachy vibes

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    Think there are groups of people who prey on people. l had no idea that these so called groups existed. But now l realize it and talk to no one now because l see how prevalent they are in this state. The city l live in has ton of these sub-groups. It's disappointing. And l definitely don't gaslight other people just to feel better about myself or my boyfriend tells me to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  6. Els

    Els Well-Known Member

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    If you're dealing with something like PTSD, it might be helpful to look into that.
    Sleep is extremely important and it affects your perspective on things, honestly, it's a basic need. There are pills to help sleeping which aren't addictive and to take ponctually. I've been prescribed anti histaminics because they're also used as sleeping pills and lower anxiety. They worked well and it's a ponctual use. There are options that won't make you a drug addict, there isn't just one option. There are many. Most doctors will start prescribing you stuffs that aren't addictive and pretty light, honestly. If you can sort this situation out I think it would be a good start. Sleeping really impacts living. Taking substances that help you sleep, depending on what they are, won't make you a "drug addict", it's a bit dramaturgic. You can evaluate the benefits (or not) of whatever exists and is proposed to you and be wise in the choice.
    Good luck.
     
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  7. Mia

    Mia Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    I've never let myself be knowingly victimized, although it happened when I was younger, if I could I fought back eventually. Usually with my intelligence and rarely kicks and punches. It's a tool many aspies have, we tend toward out-thinking others.
    I'm married to another aspie, and both of us achieved much of what we wanted in life. Through hard work while in school, at jobs, and in society. We used our intelligence to get what we wanted. Certainly we've been victimized over time, but not overly. We learn quickly, and it rarely happens more than once. Society doesn't know I'm autistic, they just know they don't quite like me because I won't fit in and do what they want. And I question too many things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  8. menander

    menander Well-Known Member

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    Humans don't like one another. They have always enslaved, battled, killed, harmed and destroyed one another. Sure there are good things, but name one other species that just kills its own for no really good reason. A dog might kill another dog. It seems Chimps will kill other groups of chimps for resources, but we will line up hundreds of men with rifles facing other hundreds of men with rifles and actually tell them to walk forward. See movies like The Patriot or Glory. Just falling like dominoes. And why? To stop the even worse horror of people chaining and owning people and their perceived "right" to do so!

    Whenever you are loved or fed or allowed to wear the clothes you like or are not feeling a fist against your head------you are lucky. It's not the reverse. You are not a select victim. We are all victims of being human.

    As attributed to Jim Morrison: "No One Here Gets out Alive."
     
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  9. SimplyWandering

    SimplyWandering Well-Known Member

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    Els put it poetically above...

    Yes, we are discriminated by the mass for the things we do or happen to be.., (minorities,lgbtq,gender, weird, special , etc.)

    We cant expect to change others. Racism, sexism, etc. will never be eradicated, they will always exist in some form. Instead of putting ourselves in labeled boxes, do something productive and dont get bothered by the rest of the stuff.

    The more important message is that You have to lift yourself above that and fight for what you want , Without putting others down or bothered by how they perceive you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  10. nowwhat

    nowwhat Well-Known Member

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    This is why I am glad to not be offically diagnosed. I avoid the label and the mostly bad things that come with it. My family and some of my friends know, but without an offical Dx, I don't have to disclose it on job applications, and infact, any speculation in that direction by my employer can be quickly shot down. Regardless, society at large will not and cannot understand and has no empathy. I do what I can to earn my place and stand up to those who cross lines. I have made my way in the world; not the way I once thought I would travel, nor one I really wanted, but, here I am and many things have turned out splendidly, for all the horrid, shameful, terrible failures. I have learned to expect very little good from life and people. Paradoxically, this has enabled me to be grateful for the things that have gone well.
    I'm on to them, and they know it.
     
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  11. Major Tom

    Major Tom Searching for ground control... V.I.P Member

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    I think all societies do have problems, there unfortunately is no perfect society, nor can there be. This is because everyone is different I think.

    I think it's better to focus on the good aspects of whatever society you live in, than to see the negative sides (especially if that's most of what you see). I know this as I used to focus a lot on the negative rather than the positive and it nearly killed me.(literally)

    Contrarily, if nobody sees the flaws in society that means it will never change. So if you do focus on it, focus on what you CAN change, not so much on what you can't. For example if you are walking on the beach and you see lots of trash, instead of letting it infuriate you, go and get a bunch of trash bags and pick it up. People can and do catch onto that sort of thing and that's a small way we can make the world a better place to live in.
     
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  12. SusanLR

    SusanLR Well-Known Member

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    This is true. True for myself for sure.
    I never feel victimized and will stand my ground.
    I think the use of intelligence and the out-thinking of others IS an aspie quality and I use it all the time.
    That's why I never feel low self esteem when someone puts me down verbally or elsewise.
    An ex-boyfriend told me I never say "I'm sorry."
    That's because I'm not. I am very careful of what I say, even in a time of anger.
    Hearing people say things like "I'm sorry, I didn't mean those things I said..."
    doesn't cut it. If you didn't mean what you said, then why did you say it?
     
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  13. AspieOtaku

    AspieOtaku Leader of the otaku legion!

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    Were treated as second class citizens and sometimes 3rd class citizens.
     
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  14. Jobin Reed

    Jobin Reed New Member

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    This is so true, and the realization of it all made me cry.
     
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  15. Tom

    Tom Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    The problem may simply be we are in the wrong society. Perhaps we are better fitted to a Eusocial one. I think the amazing Naked Mole Rats might be a better match. Only one female in each group mates, the rest, about 300 individuals, are specialized workers, food gatherers, soldiers, nurses, etc. They live underground and are unusually temperature sensitive and don't wear tight fitting clothes. Although only the size of a hamster there tunnel can can stretch 3 kilometers. They can live for 30 years which is basically unheard of in rodents and are almost impervious to cancer (a trick we can certainly use).

    Eusociality

    The evolution of social behavior at its most intimate and complex degree is found in eusocial animals. Eusocial species live in colonies. Only a relatively small fraction of the animals in the colony reproduce; the non-reproductive colony members provide resources, defense, and collective care of the young. The list of known eusocial animals includes ants, termites, some wasps, some bees, a small number of aphid and thrip species, two species of mammal (the naked mole rat and the Damaraland mole rat), and multiple species of reef-dwelling shrimp.

    How Does Social Behavior Evolve? | Learn Science at Scitable.

    mole-rat_cape.jpg
     
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  16. AspieOtaku

    AspieOtaku Leader of the otaku legion!

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    Society is not always friendly to us we have bullies from hate groups, sometimes cops trying to arrest us for no reason or send us to the lony bin, it sucks society is ignorant they just want us locked away in jail or a loony bin restrained and sedated its sad but true.
     
  17. Yeshuasdaughter

    Yeshuasdaughter Well-Known Member V.I.P Member

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    Well.. we look normal but act weird and regular people don't know what's up with us. It's not some snowflake "microaggression", it's just that we look like everyone else but our behavior is off.
     
  18. AspieOtaku

    AspieOtaku Leader of the otaku legion!

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    A typical situation with police encountering those on the spectrum, i had my few shares of being assumed im on drugs by stimming and being detained for it it freaking sucks.I always cooperate its scary though.Im left shaking and scared for a good half hour till i can calm down the anxiety and nerves sucks.Its very scary sometimes i fear police at times now even though im a good guy too since these incidents they either want to arrest me for no reason or send me back to the psyche ward under a 5150, its very scary. Im supposed to be on their side a good guy too but, they want to find reasons to arrest me, detain me or commit me for being autistic, i thought cops were supposed to be the good guys it makes me sad.The problem with society to this day.If Dian wasnt there hed be in jail or a psyche ward simply because the cops dont understand.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 7:44 AM