I am realizing that I could have PDA

[Xinyta]

I have been read up on it some and I am realizing that my persistent issues with certain aspects of life, could be related to PDA.

Just thinking back to school. To things how I was treated by my parental units. How I have handled, and still handle curveballs in life. Basic daily tasks. It all is chaos for me.

It seems like the there are alot of things I do the bare minimum for. Yet somethings I can go for hours, if I wanted to, figuring out more about them.

Though it then makes me wonder if my tramas made it worse. That I simply will not do things, because it reminds me of how my parents responded. Thus inducing immediate anxiety.

 

[Crossbreed]

I have been read up on it some and I am realizing that my persistent issues with certain aspects of life, could be related to PDA.

Public Display of Affection...!?

 

[Xinyta]

Public Display of Affection...!?

Pathological Demand Avoidance

 

[Jonn]

Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) is a pattern of behavior in which kids go to extremes to ignore or avoid anything they perceive as a demand. Pathological demand avoidance (PDA) is most often seen in people with autism.

Pathological Demand Avoidance - Google Suche

 

[thejuice]

Questions.to think about: Is it just demands that you avoid or could you be avoidant In general, perhaps due to your anxiety? Or are you only.motivated by things you are intensely interested in which could be a low dopamine issue

 

[Jonn]

PDA could explain why I have less than zero interest in being in a leadership role, but I don't think so.

 

[Angular Chap]

PDA (and the related APD, Avoidant Personality Disorder) were autism related things I looked into.

I have resorted to some pretty outlandish schemes to get out of doing things. People have told me in the past that if there was an easy way out of something, I would find it. The words "avoid" and "avoidance" were in my autism diagnosis report a few times.

It might be simplifying things, but for now I put everything under the autism umbrella. It makes it all easier to process. I might consider separating things out a bit more in future if it makes more sense.

 

[Cutesie]

It was two days ago that I saw that there is something called PDA. (I had seen the term before but never looked to see what it means.) It explains a good deal of why my life has been a wreck forever. It's great to see that it has a name; now I need to figure out what to do about it.

PDA is associated with autism and ADHD, both of which I believe to have but haven't gotten diagnosed with yet.

@thejuice, what's the difference between PDA and being generally avoidant? A "demand", according to the articles that I've seen, is any expectation made directly by people, by society and those we impose on ourselves.

@Angular Chap, you were unlikely to get a PDA diagnosis because it's not officially recognized. Any diagnosing is being made "off-label". It's considered a "proposed disorder".

 

[ra49]

Demand Avoidance also doesn't have to be at the level of Pathological to really cause problems in our daily lives
I found these really helpful to understand how I do or don't process

 

[NeuroTangential]

PDA could explain why I have less than zero interest in being in a leadership role, but I don't think so.

I don't think so. I am demand avoidant with PDA tendencies. During my career I sought leadership roles to avoid being told what to do. This wasn't always a good strategy.

 

[FayetheAspie]

I get concerned that I might not be following a rule well enough and often annoy others by being too pedantic about the rules at a job. That kinda seems like the opposite of Pathological Demand Avoidance.

 

[NeuroTangential]

I get concerned that I might not be following a rule well enough and often annoy others by being too pedantic about the rules at a job. That kinda seems like the opposite of Pathological Demand Avoidance.

Do you make a distinction between established rules and requests from people? I do. I don't like rules that differ from what I think they should be, but I don't get super defiant.

Here's a simple way the PDA manifested itself this last Sunday. There is rule to put the trash out on Sunday evening for collection on Monday morning. I've no problem with this rule. In fact, I will spend most of Sunday mentally reminding myself that the trash has to go out this evening. And it will happen unless my wife happens to say "Remember, it's trash day." The moment she says that I get a rush of adrenaline and a strong fight reaction. It is completely irrational and I hate when it happens. I have a hard time controlling it. Stifling it feels really bad. Yielding to it feels worse.

 

[Cutesie]

Do you make a distinction between established rules and requests from people?

PDA can show up for me with both scenarios, but it's definitely worse when reminded of the rules by people.

At a synagogue event last week, someone requested from my brother Ikey - a level-2 autistic who has terrible PDA - that he not stand in a certain spot. A minute later, someone else, not aware of the earlier request, also said it. Ikey complained about being told what to do by "so many people".

Me: "How many people told you what to do?"

Ikey: "Three."

Me: "Who is 'three'?"

Ikey: "Byron, the rabbi and me."

It was an enlightening moment, because I saw that Ikey has more awareness of his PDA than I'd thought. He recognized that what he tells himself is part of the demands that he resents - not just the external messages.

It's quite possible to both appreciate rules and to begrudge them as part of PDA. Autistics tend to like order and clarity, so rules can be very good for us. That might not stop us from disliking how they force us to behave in a certain way.

When rules are perceived as being unfair or are applied unfairly, I react very strongly and it can lead even to an irrational response.

 

[Aspychata]

Anything you wish to share will help me understand more about this. I had to deal with this when l waited until the very last minute to turn in college reports, but l clearly didn't understand it.

 

[Cutesie]

Here are a couple of paragraphs from another support site that I wrote on Friday, January 17th, a day following my discharge from a psychiatric hospital:

It's amazing how different the entire hospitalization was because I had walked in and asked to be admitted. No one had forced me. I had come in on my own, I had done the responsible act. It gave me such a feeling of freedom. This may not be so important to everyone. I have what's called demand avoidance, which makes my brain go crazy when told what to do.

An example from my stay: After a couple of days, I was given the privilege of going outside for a little while every day. We were a group of 3-5 patients, accompanied by two staff members. On Wednesday, we were walking around, enjoying the freezing cold, fresh air (while not dressed particularly warmly), when it was announced that we had four minutes left. One minute later, I chose to go inside. I explained to them that having that small bit of autonomy - to make my own choice about when exactly to step back in - just makes me feel better.

 

[Cutesie]

Later that day, I added:

It has been the issue most debilitating in my life since I was small, but I only learned that it has a name in recent months. My brother Ikey has it strongly, too, and is suffering greatly thereby. I've only just begun to understand which techniques we can use to make it more manageable, as each person experiences it in their own way.

Then, in response to a member's asking for more details about the condition:

Firstly, let me clarify that one can have demand avoidance without it being pathological. By "pathological", I refer to the sense of being unusual to the point that it seriously impairs one's functioning - the bar necessary for something to be diagnosable as a disorder.

Secondly, PDA isn't yet really diagnosable at all. It has not been recognized by the experts who create such works as the DSM.

Now for the definition: "a resistance to comply with expectations".

Someone with demand avoidance has difficulty accepting orders given by an individual, by society or even by themselves. His mind (pardon the gendered language) simply rebels against being told what to do. The action may be in his best interest, the logical part of his brain may really want to do it, but there's another part that screams for its independence. It can make complying extremely difficult, sometimes even impossible.

I chose to describe it using my own words. You can certainly find plenty of articles and books - written by experts and other PDAers - that will do a better job.

 

[Cutesie]

Another example of how intense a PDA reaction can be, from November 5th:

My nutritionist was listing various healthier foods that I should try eating. She was just giving suggestions. One was cottage cheese. In the grocery store now, I saw cottage cheese and reacted strongly - violently shaking my head while saying aloud, "Eeewww!" and internally screaming "I'm not eating that!" It was a delayed protest against Yael.

She knows that I don't like certain foods and had no intention of telling me to eat any of them. Yael was mentioning a category - proteins - and simply gave a few examples. I understood that, and hadn't felt anything negative in the office.

 

[FayetheAspie]

Do you make a distinction between established rules and requests from people? I do. I don't like rules that differ from what I think they should be, but I don't get super defiant.

Here's a simple way the PDA manifested itself this last Sunday. There is rule to put the trash out on Sunday evening for collection on Monday morning. I've no problem with this rule. In fact, I will spend most of Sunday mentally reminding myself that the trash has to go out this evening. And it will happen unless my wife happens to say "Remember, it's trash day." The moment she says that I get a rush of adrenaline and a strong fight reaction. It is completely irrational and I hate when it happens. I have a hard time controlling it. Stifling it feels really bad. Yielding to it feels worse.

As far as being reminded to do something, I think that has a lot to do with things like tone. A simple reminder can be a positive thing (especially with ADHD), but if someone comes up all confrontational acting then of course that can be stressful. I'm not entirely sure if I understand your initial question. I try to follow established rules. If someone makes an additional request, I don't see why that should be offensive unless there is some other factor involved such as it being something that would be wrong to do or something else about the specific task that bothers me for some other reason such as aggravating a specific phobia or something. Could also be mildly annoying if having a bad day and just don't feel like doing anything but that would be more lazy than demand avoidant. I don't follow trends and stuff unless I actually find a particular trend genuinely interesting. I don't know if that is considered a symptom or not.

 

[Cutesie]

I don't follow trends and stuff unless I actually find a particular trend genuinely interesting. I don't know if that is considered a symptom or not.

Not following trends could be a sign of a positive self-image - not needing to follow the herd.

Someone like me doesn't just not follow trends; we refuse to do so. Our minds rebel against things that are popular. There are brands that I won't use because of their ubiquity. Seeing a logo can bring on feelings of revulsion. As a sports fan, I have to live with hearing and reading lots of cliches, which I hate.