honesty

[PATILYN]

This guy is either a complete idiot

A little addendum ... this guy’s works full time and keeps his own apartment ... he is fully bilingual ... and learned English as a second language as adult ... he is frugal and makes good use of his savings to support himself!

And incidentally ... he offered up quite regularly over our 9 months apart that he was thinking about me all the time! Hmm!

 

[AO1501]

Bella Pines ... I did have one niggling thing .... my guy’s declaration “I love you” to me ... while we were playing pool on my second night abroad. I had said to him earlier ... it’s a good thing I love you because you were very hard on me right now”. And then 10 or 15 minutes later, he was just sitting waiting his turn and looking at me when he announced “I love you!” I kind of startled a bit because this was a first ... and I replied to him “but it’s seems you have an odd way of showing it with your hard words” and he replied ... “that’s maybe because it’s the same thing ... “???? What’s that?

Anyway, to quote another kind member on this site, he advised me quite sometime ago that if my guy ever says IT, “you better believe it!” So I did!

I carried the warm feeling around all week ... and then lost it again later when the subject came up ... With the added words from me ...and he could NOT summon the words.

I never thought to hear the words at all and I had certainly never asked to hear the words before ... sooo I guess I just thought it would be lovely to hear them again.

So in truth, Bella, since he uttered the words once with such sincerity and soberness, can I rest on that first declaration? With romance and sex being like a computer to him ... that he does have real love ... for me ...

Bella's point about love being action is largely right, though not entirely. It isn't a concept I have any problem understanding as an emotional response to a particular person. I have experienced it and I recognise it as as much a solid thing as my car. But just as Bella demonstrates, love is a spectrum, which depends on the individual. I know what it means to me, and it would, in fact does, mean something very important. How I show it is very much through my actions, but the fact they are actions doesn't mean they are not rooted in an emotional foundation.

Your guy, I think, sees love as something different. Less than I do obviously, because when I tell someone I love them, they absolutely know it. He seems to use it as a placeholder. A form of emotional attachment that is rather more detached and detachable than your understanding of it. So when he told you he loved you, he meant it, absolutely, but it is not your standard for it he meant, but his.

But absolutely not that romance and sex being like a computer to him. That statement would not reflect who I am for example, not at all. Romance and sex are absolutely meaningful to me because for me they are bundled up in the safety of a relationship I like and want. I don't think your guy is near me on that spectrum either, but his needs and wants aren't mine. While I seek safety in relationships because I have never felt safe in life, it appears that he seeks companionship - someone he has access to, likely just to avoid being alone. If he feels alone, and gets lonely, that would be plenty enough to create an emotional attachment to someone, and remove it if a better option to fit his needs comes along.

 

[PATILYN]

... it appears that he seeks companionship - someone he has access to, likely just to avoid being alone. If he feels alone, and gets lonely, that would be plenty enough to create an emotional attachment to someone, and remove it if a better option to fit his needs comes along.

Soooo...I have turned it over and over and over in my head ... and I believe that perhaps you may have said it best ... he did tell me in just those words when he described trying to find someone “I will not be alone”! His criteria ... she is pretty, she doesn’t smoke (deal breaker) and she is easily available to him ... not busy with young children for example (or in my case from 6500 km)!

However, he told me there is no woman available who would prevent him from returning to Canada ... she comes or she doesn’t! But if a chance arrives for him ... he wants Canada to be his home and he’ll leave without her. In my mind I hear logic ... but I also hear companionship.

I suppose upon honest reflection my availability to him on a permanent basis was pretty questionable before I arrived since we had never discussed our future... in those terms! I was certain from his behaviour here and during our 9 month absence to mean love for me ... and I had been using the word to him for months! So described your way, “availability” was not my strong suit when he had to move forward to assuage his loneliness. Not to mention smoking ! So it is no wonder he may not have logically NOT thought of me that way!

However to his credit ... he explicitly told me he had taken time off because he wanted to spend the time with me, while I was available to him. For the most part, I had his 100% attention and he never faltered even when pressured to do so my the other woman! I was impressed by that show of loyalty.

Some here have cautioned me I was used and perhaps that I misread the situation. I certainly have hummed and hawed over those thoughts too. Since you have been so explicit and insightful ... what do you think?

Lastly ... when we were together for 10 days, I sometimes felt like he was annoyed with me. Kind of short tempered ... and more instructive towards me. I asked him if I was being annoying and he said no or he would have gone home. Was I causing that?

As an update ... I have sent two further messages in 14 days ...I was
just checking in... he replied to my questions about the name of a town we had seen. He additionally sent a photo he had taken of the ocean and lighthouse and me that day. He got back to me in fairly good time ...and seemed fairly okay as far as messages go ...but my anxiety was so high I cannot possibly interpret anything!

I suggested we meet by Skype next week but he said he is without internet access at his apartment until after May 10. So at least he responded and advised me ... he did not go silent. I think that is positive.

I miss him. I am loyal to friendship. Will work more on myself ... regroup and reread some of these insightful responses.

 

[AO1501]

Soooo...I have turned it over and over and over in my head ... and I believe that perhaps you may have said it best ... he did tell me in just those words when he described trying to find someone “I will not be alone”! His criteria ... she is pretty, she doesn’t smoke (deal breaker) and she is easily available to him ... not busy with young children for example (or in my case from 6500 km)!

However, he told me there is no woman available who would prevent him from returning to Canada ... she comes or she doesn’t! But if a chance arrives for him ... he wants Canada to be his home and he’ll leave without her. In my mind I hear logic ... but I also hear companionship.

I suppose upon honest reflection my availability to him on a permanent basis was pretty questionable before I arrived since we had never discussed our future... in those terms! I was certain from his behaviour here and during our 9 month absence to mean love for me ... and I had been using the word to him for months! So described your way, “availability” was not my strong suit when he had to move forward to assuage his loneliness. Not to mention smoking ! So it is no wonder he may not have logically NOT thought of me that way!

However to his credit ... he explicitly told me he had taken time off because he wanted to spend the time with me, while I was available to him. For the most part, I had his 100% attention and he never faltered even when pressured to do so my the other woman! I was impressed by that show of loyalty.

Some here have cautioned me I was used and perhaps that I misread the situation. I certainly have hummed and hawed over those thoughts too. Since you have been so explicit and insightful ... what do you think?

Lastly ... when we were together for 10 days, I sometimes felt like he was annoyed with me. Kind of short tempered ... and more instructive towards me. I asked him if I was being annoying and he said no or he would have gone home. Was I causing that?

As an update ... I have sent two further messages in 14 days ...I was
just checking in... he replied to my questions about the name of a town we had seen. He additionally sent a photo he had taken of the ocean and lighthouse and me that day. He got back to me in fairly good time ...and seemed fairly okay as far as messages go ...but my anxiety was so high I cannot possibly interpret anything!

I suggested we meet by Skype next week but he said he is without internet access at his apartment until after May 10. So at least he responded and advised me ... he did not go silent. I think that is positive.

I miss him. I am loyal to friendship. Will work more on myself ... regroup and reread some of these insightful responses.

No you weren't used in the sense that you and many others would understand. He genuinely loves you on his terms, it is just that the circumstance of you doesn't fit the needs he has, so he can, in effect, simply switch his loyalty. That's a very binary thing. It looks like being used, but the logic of it in his mind is that in one situation you work, and in another, you don't. It is easily possible that he sees your choices to have determined this, that he was perfectly OK with his form of love, demonstrated by his actions, but when you moved from someone he loved to someone expressing a depth of emotion that pressured him, he found reasons (the smoking, and the sister-form of love) to switch to the other woman. She was available, you were not, and in the long-term, his need for access is what counted.

Basically, he could possibly love you the way you loved him, but only if you were there.

Hard to tell about that sense of him being annoyed, but I'd guess it was that he had a hard time understanding you, that he was perhaps not following your meaning because you might not have been literal enough. The fact he said he wasn't annoyed suggests he wasn't, but the fact he was being 'instructional' suggests he was trying to correct you and guide you towards what he might understand better.

That he is responsive means that he is ok to carry on with you, but that doesn't mean it will necessarily help you. If his friendship is important to you, it would seem unlikely you will lose it if you stay in contact, it's just that you may not find it possible to go any further, because even if he does have a depth of love for you, that won't trump his need for a person with him. And as long as she wants him, she is manipulative enough to work him into eating out of her hand.

 

[PATILYN]

No you weren't used in the sense that you and many others would understand. He genuinely loves you on his terms, it is just that the circumstance of you doesn't fit the needs he has

Basically, he could possibly love you the way you loved him, but only if you were there.

Hard to tell about that sense of him being annoyed, but I'd guess it was that he had a hard time understanding you, that he was perhaps not following your meaning because you might not have been literal enough. The fact he said he wasn't annoyed suggests he wasn't, but the fact he was being 'instructional' suggests he was trying to correct you and guide you towards what he might understand better.
.

Firstly, let me say thank you. Again!

It totally made sense to me ... the binary thinking regarding me... I have seen that in other instances from him.

I am slowly coming to the realization that there is nothing left for me to do. I left all the words I had for him over there. And that my brain and his brain are perhaps unsuited for each other in a romantic way for all the reasons you have explained: distance, availability, need, emotional connection and my expectations too, I guess.

We needed more time without distance. ... and maybe even then, I may not have been the one to bridge the gap for him.

When he asked me “did you come all this way to tell me this ...” (THIS being that I loved him), he was genuinely sorry he could not summon the words. His told me that night .... that he previously thought he had found “the one” for him all those years ago, but she left him, and his feelings for me did not match what he had felt for her. He said that in his mind he could not say it until he reached that “ultimate” level. He felt damaged by that break up. I suppose I rather knew then ... I cannot bridge that emotional distance needed for THIS.

It is sad for me to think about ... and i know it is prideful of me to be hurt. I have to own my behaviour and decisions too. Even though I have a better understanding, if not complete, and i have really rejigged my thinking ... it is still stinging me!

I have continued to throw out small messages a couple of times a week of things going on in my daily life ... he responds ... it may continue ... for me to do so ... don’t know yet!

I suspect I may be back to you in the next weeks ... checking in from time to time for your solid insights ... just processing more ... and putting this guy into a healthy place in my mind! And for this I say thank you! You, together with many in this community, are remarkable in helping ....

 

[AO1501]

Firstly, let me say thank you. Again!

It totally made sense to me ... the binary thinking regarding me... I have seen that in other instances from him.

I am slowly coming to the realization that there is nothing left for me to do. I left all the words I had for him over there. And that my brain and his brain are perhaps unsuited for each other in a romantic way for all the reasons you have explained: distance, availability, need, emotional connection and my expectations too, I guess.

We needed more time without distance. ... and maybe even then, I may not have been the one to bridge the gap for him.

When he asked me “did you come all this way to tell me this ...” (THIS being that I loved him), he was genuinely sorry he could not summon the words. His told me that night .... that he previously thought he had found “the one” for him all those years ago, but she left him, and his feelings for me did not match what he had felt for her. He said that in his mind he could not say it until he reached that “ultimate” level. He felt damaged by that break up. I suppose I rather knew then ... I cannot bridge that emotional distance needed for THIS.

It is sad for me to think about ... and i know it is prideful of me to be hurt. I have to own my behaviour and decisions too. Even though I have a better understanding, if not complete, and i have really rejigged my thinking ... it is still stinging me!

I have continued to throw out small messages a couple of times a week of things going on in my daily life ... he responds ... it may continue ... for me to do so ... don’t know yet!

I suspect I may be back to you in the next weeks ... checking in from time to time for your solid insights ... just processing more ... and putting this guy into a healthy place in my mind! And for this I say thank you! You, together with many in this community, are remarkable in helping ....

I think you have to consider what your own needs are, and once that is fixed, that will then determine whether or not he fits into any part of them. Staying in contact as you are doing now may be a good outcome for him, since clearly you mean something to him, and it may pacify his loneliness, but if it does not also do what you need, that contact won't be likely to enrich your life in the way your feelings for him suggest you really need.

But it is just processing, and as you say, putting him into a healthy place in your mind. Hopefully, with the help you have had here, better understanding him, should help you determine what outcomes you are prepared to accept, or determine.

I am sure we all wish you good luck. It's a hard place to be, and those of us who have been there, or nearby, during our lives are likely to have found it equally hard.