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Help me understand my teenage aspie

In Canada, the employment rate for those on the spectrum was reported to be 33% in the 2017 Canadian Survey on Disability, which is based on responses from the 2016 census. This is significantly higher than the 12% reported in a 2012 report, and I suspect it's because when the earlier one came out, most of those with a autism diagnosis were either relatively young and/or had co-occuring conditions or needs that more severely impacted their ability to participate in the workforce.

In Unmasking Autism (pp 126-127), Price suggests 40% unemployment, and I'm inclined to agree that is likely a fair estimate given that there are many adults on the spectrum who are working or have since retired who have yet to realize that they are autistic.

In any case, the unemployment rates for autistic persons are significantly higher than those with disabilities in general.

Below is a link from a newsletter from December 2022 about Employment in New York---a bulletin sent by The New York State Department of Labor as of January 4, 2023--- that cites about 85 % of Autistics in the US unemployed. Other research says unemployment rates range from about 43% to 90%. The large disparity depends likely on the year of the study, how many were sampled, how they defined Autism, if according to level, or with or without degree, or any bias on the part of the one who conducted the study, or other.

 
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And there you have it. Now you're getting somewhere. Up until now you have given him lots of choices, he said no and that was the end of it. You let him run the show. Now you told him how it is going to be instead of giving him lots of choices and allowing him to say no. Then he gets upset, now he is reacting. This is good, now he is learning. This is what he has to learn.
In some ways I'm horrified, but in some ways I agree.

There's a very fine line between helping a child understand, and using adulthood to bully. One can help enormously, one can cause irrevocable harm.
 
Well this morning he was in good spirits and got to school on time.

We also told him no school, no electronics last night.
While he isn't the 24/7 gamer he is on a lot. He watches anime, science, codes, models, and plays games with friends.

@Forest Cat - we exhausted all other considerations.
Is he lonely? No he has plenty of friends.
Is he depressed? No he has been happy for weeks
is the work hard adjusted? No.
Does he like his school? Yes
Do you want to go to college? Yes
Are the meds working? Yes
Did the teacher reports come back positive? Yes

No more excuses. So we hit him in the one spot he loves the most, his computer.

We can't afford my wife to go into another depressive session and lose her job because he isn't doing what he needs to do.

So why am I not the main bread winner? Because we made a decision earlier in life.
She is smarter, has more opportunity, and is less mentally strong to deal with our son.
So I made my own work to make extra money so I can be flexible with him. I also take care of everything else. Retirement, spending, chores, cars, maintenance.
 
@1ForAll I meant to say 15-25% ARE employed.

Thanks for the clarification, and just so you do not take the other things I said the wrong way, if being more assertive works like recent attempts you tried, as that was reasonable what you said,then great! But just keep an eye on any long term worsened mood and still refusal there. Consider other options then if that approach over reasonable time does not work and as other kinder attempts in other ways you tried went not too far. Regardless, you both seem like caring persons and just want to better things for all involved and to utilize any potential to the fullest.
 
You know in netherlands there are actually tech companies that hire autistics. Software testing is apparently a great job aspies
That is great, that there are some professional job employers/companies that will do that. I wish I was into technical jobs like many with Autism. Most companies that seem to hire those with Autism around here will give low wages to those in retail places, tech chain stores or training programs.
 
In some ways I'm horrified, but in some ways I agree.

There's a very fine line between helping a child understand, and using adulthood to bully. One can help enormously, one can cause irrevocable harm.

I agree. I mean yes the child is still a minor and this gives the parent a choice how to raise them in a more lenient, strict or in the middle way, and the approach may succeed temporarily if not longer, but once that child reaches legal age, in most cases parent rights mostly end. So then the tables may turn if that adult child gets out, and then that parent is wanting to be in the adult child's life but that adult child says, "No thanks. Go home and do not bother me anymore."

Our mom and dad told us when we were eighteen, "Go to the military or get a job! You cannot stay here." So, the oldest brother picked the military and they said he committed suicide there. My twin picked the military, and it was the worst days of his life with the constant bullying. I said "[deleted word] parents under my breath. I am going to college instead." College and university life did nothing for me but buy time for me to learn who I was, what I wanted and needed, and how to go about doing that. What a waste of six years of school otherwise. I never functioned there or learned anything there that I can use today. Some will, I did not.

I forgot to say, my wife's domineering and emotionally neglectful parents pressured her for five years prior to age eighteen to get excellent grades, so she could go to a great college and then make them proud with a great job. When she was not succeeding there in school, they became even more cold, critical, causing huge confrontations often. They let her become homeless in a shelter for a period of time saying it would toughen her up. How about all that pressure and negative treatment towards her causing extreme hatred towards them and severe PTSD, law enforcement involvement, personality disorder condition, on top of her already undiagnosed ADHD then, that they denied and acted like it was in her head.

She was brilliant in her own ways, but not with regards to handling an education and social pressures there, and not regarding anything occupationally as she had low stress tolerance and inability to abide for the even a few of the requirements there, much less handle more. Not all persons persevere under stress. Their genetics, conditions, and ways they processed their traumatic environmental experiences may largely determine that. As for I. I got mostly all A's and B's in college and university. Big deal! I was a social misfit, could work near nobody then, and my parents taught me nothing about practical living skills and the development of good character traits.

Everything like that I had to learn on my own through my own efforts, vigilance, introspection, and analysis. I had to undo all my crappy parenting and bullying on my own, and teach myself the right things. But not everybody can do that. That is my biggest worry.

So the moral of the story is what? Parents do not always have the right answers or are fit to make right decisions.. Parents are not always looking out for their childs best interest but theirs. Each child's needs, abilities, interests and tolerances should be judged on its own merits, without generalizing what the child should or should not do without digging deeper. But that cannot occur with crappy communication between children and parents, and black and white thinking from parents. And that cannot occur when fear, disrespect or anger is brewing, masking is occuring and/or when conditions are worsening.

This was not directed at the op but parents like my wife and mine, who were totally clueless.

End of rant. Thanks.
 
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....So the moral of the story is what? Parents do not always have the right answers or are fit to make right decisions.. Parents are not always looking out for their childs best interest but theirs. Each child's needs, abilities, interests and tolerances should be judged on its own merits, without generalizing what the child should or should not do without digging deeper. But that cannot occur with crappy communication between children and parents, and black and white thinking from parents. And that cannot occur when fear, disrespect or anger is brewing, masking is occuring and/or when conditions are worsening...
My wife's parents were manipulative and abusive to her, and mine was functional as a person, but distant and cold as a parent. These are not good examples to learn from, but sadly we do - at least to some extent. The result is that if not careful we can end up perpetuating the cycle of believing ourself good parents, yet being more centered on ourselves than our children when the going gets tough.

The going always will get tough with children at some point, and the better they have been as children in positive relationships with us beforehand, the harder it is when it stops. Not just for us as parents, but them as children too.

It worries me (and this is not a critique of the OP, just in the context of this particular type of problem) when a parent tells a child who is in some kind of difficulty that isn't defined and may be undefinable, something like; 'you don't have a choice...' because when you get to that stage, the problems the child faces have ceased to be the concern, and the child him/herself is now the problem, with the parent as the face of authority.

What we teach children at that point isn't what we think we are teaching them. In our minds, we're explaining reality, truth and consequence, the outcome of choices, the reality of it. In their minds, we're threatening them, ignoring their needs and fears, treating them as if we're a threat to them and their comfortable lives, as an obstacle they have to beat down into submission.

At best, the child may learn from this that there is no alternative but to conform, but without attention to their underlying problems, nothing is actually resolved and there are likely even more issues then heaped on top, not least the intrapersonal ones which are latent in many families.

The reality is that there is always a choice, and as a parent, part of the responsibility of that role is to find those choices and at least be aware of them, because there are many circumstances which can arise in an otherwise stable family, where things just can't stay the same, and the pushback isn't against a recalcitrant child who can be molded into conformity, but a circumstance that can't.

Great theory, but I admit I couldn't do it and found myself saying 'there is no choice' just the same too. It worked for a few weeks until something triggered the next step of the problem, and because I'd built a wall of resentment (and the child wasn't generally all that vocal), he wouldn't explain or provide any helpful answers. So I clearly didn't resolve it, clearly didn't help, and clearly didn't handle the problem the right way at all.

In the old days, we would just beat the child with a slipper, and he'd learn to conform or it would happen again. Today, many parents are a bit more subtle, but the result can often be much the same.

(Again, to the OP, this is not a critique or intended as one)
 
Not taken as a critique.
I do agree with the above. You need to nurture a child to maximize that potential while also pushing a little beyond their comfort levels while teaching good morals and not criticizing or insulting them. It is a difficult balancing job. Pushing too hard can shove them over the edge. Not pushing hard enough means they might end up a neck-beard in your basement not maximizing their potential and happiness.

My wife and I did everything possible to get all the obstacles out of his way. Sometimes it just takes explaining to him the importance of something in a way that turns on a light bulb in his head. But this time everything was checked off the list. He had no reason not to go to school with school bending over backwards for him in 4-6 kid classrooms in classes at his level that are not overburdening him.

Well it's day 2 and he was on time to school happy. He went to bed unhappy 2 days ago but woke up happy. We will see how long this lasts.
 
Not taken as a critique.
I do agree with the above. You need to nurture a child to maximize that potential while also pushing a little beyond their comfort levels while teaching good morals and not criticizing or insulting them. It is a difficult balancing job. Pushing too hard can shove them over the edge. Not pushing hard enough means they might end up a neck-beard in your basement not maximizing their potential and happiness.

My wife and I did everything possible to get all the obstacles out of his way. Sometimes it just takes explaining to him the importance of something in a way that turns on a light bulb in his head. But this time everything was checked off the list. He had no reason not to go to school with school bending over backwards for him in 4-6 kid classrooms in classes at his level that are not overburdening him.

Well it's day 2 and he was on time to school happy. He went to bed unhappy 2 days ago but woke up happy. We will see how long this lasts.
I wish you the best of luck! Children are a spectrum all to themselves!
 
FYI, we don't physically hit, criticize, ridicule, or embarrass our son. I will admit at times we lost it on him but never verbally abused him. More like "Damn it, we are trying to help you!!! Stop being so stubborn!!!"
 
@The Lorax I don't know but I think you're a good man. I think fathers like you are a gift from God on the earth and even if your son doesn't catch on (what if he never does) you've still done the absolute best you can. Let's hope he gets his act together & reciprocates this.
 
Thanks. He says "I love you dad" and a year ago told me he was thankful for having such a wise father.

I try my best.
 
Well, worked for 2 days. Now he is just sitting there in his room doing nothing. Just doesn't want to go to school even under the threat of no electronics for the day.
Not depressed, anxious, tired, hungry, or sad. Just doesn't want to go.
 
Went to only because he didn't want to fail school. He wants a HS diploma and not a GED.

Somehow he did everything on the last day of school to minimally pass, didn't study, and got A's on all his tests.

Grades AABBCC...... ##FACEPALM##
 
I'm sorry, I know this is probably causing you more than just a bit of stress, but I can't help but smile about the lad. He sounds very similar to what I was like at that age. In year 11 I only showed up for 2 weeks, the first week to find out where all my classes were supposed to be and the final week for exams. Straight As.
 
Sadly, not reaching the actual cause means you can fix a symptom, but not change the problem. Mine refused to go because he 'wasn't being taught anything'. Which was somewhat true, because as a high flying academic achiever, he was far ahead of his classes, and usually teaching himself what he was interested in learning. Not interested in French, taught himself Japanese. Didn't think fractions were meaningful, learnt simultaneous differential equations.

Absent a motivation to go, he didn't. And by then he was 18, so couldn't be forced to attend.

And really, that does echo my own experience when I was forced to study chemistry and just never went to class, because this wasn't at all what I wanted to know about.

In the kind of black and white we tend to live in, this kind of binary is easy to fall into, and hard to get out of (or be got out of).
 
This is just my opinion based on my own experience. Perhaps there's something going on at school that he feels embarrassed to talk about. When you have been used to being misunderstood or feel like you don't fit in being in even what appear to be favourable circumstances can be still challenging.

When I wasn't much older than your son I had an extremely unpleasant time at school. Besides being considered the weird kid that didn't fit in I had developed severe acne and that made me the target for jokes and teasing. School/Highschool was ok in the academic sense, but this problem and the side effects of the treatment made going in each day highly traumatic.

I struggled socially and I had to wear this misery on my face every day where I was at the mercy of other people's rude comments. The treatments made my skin peel off and you can imagine what a boon that was to cruel people.

I felt embarrassed to talk about it. If I was asked about how things were going by my Dad, I would respond with short sharp answers. "Yes" "No" "Fine". I didn't want to talk about it. I felt ashamed that I wasn't "normal" like everyone else. When I was home, and as long as my mother left me be, I felt safe and I could luxuriate in my interests.

If I talked about what was bothering me, it was like I wasn't safe in my safe place.

The thing I'm trying to articulate is kinda subtle in a way but if your Son is trying to rattle off answers to get the conversation over as quickly as possible, it may be that right now not being at the school is giving him the separation from whatever situation. He perhaps wants to give the right responses to prevent you maybe asking a question about a subject that he doesn't feel able to discuss.

So on the surface, all the "instruments" read in the green zone.

As to what may be making him crave distance from school, maybe there's a girl he has a crush on and he's being teased by others? Or something similar. Perhaps something is going on socially that he feels unable to talk about because doing so would be like walking in to the room naked metaphorically.

My feeling is that if he's retreating back home, it may be necessary to try and work within that scenario with the school. I'm sure it's not the first time they've dealt with similar scenarios. Forcing him to go back before an unseen trouble or worry is addressed, might be counter productive in the long run.
 
Naw there isnt anything unpleasant about his school. All the kids love him. Which is usually the case in a small class environment for him. Same thing happened in Elementary school. He is funny, kind, and usually the smartest kid in the room.... cognitively. Teachers all told me this. They like him a lot. He is very respectful and if kids are acting out of line he says things to them the teacher can't to stop them from misbehaving. The teachers are quite appreciative of this.

Like he does none of the homework. His reason.... why do all this work for 10% of my grade when I already know it.
Yet he still doesn't do reports or projects despite it being 30% of his grade. I told teachers to test him instead of projects because he loses his mind, shuts down, then misses a lot of classes.

We told him we don't expect a straight "A" student, just do your best.

He feels like a loser because he is so smart and his closes friend is a straight "A" super student despite not being as smart as he is. She has to work very hard for her "A"s. People I know as smart as he is almost never do. They just absorb everything.

I was the had to work hard to do something kid.
My wife was the "yawn" learn by osmosis aspie kid.
She has 10 I.Q. points on me.

That difference is huge in high school.
 

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