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Help me understand my teenage aspie

Outdated

I'm from the other end of the spectrum.
V.I.P Member
I'm sorry, I know this is probably causing you more than just a bit of stress, but I can't help but smile about the lad. He sounds very similar to what I was like at that age. In year 11 I only showed up for 2 weeks, the first week to find out where all my classes were supposed to be and the final week for exams. Straight As.
 

AO1501

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Sadly, not reaching the actual cause means you can fix a symptom, but not change the problem. Mine refused to go because he 'wasn't being taught anything'. Which was somewhat true, because as a high flying academic achiever, he was far ahead of his classes, and usually teaching himself what he was interested in learning. Not interested in French, taught himself Japanese. Didn't think fractions were meaningful, learnt simultaneous differential equations.

Absent a motivation to go, he didn't. And by then he was 18, so couldn't be forced to attend.

And really, that does echo my own experience when I was forced to study chemistry and just never went to class, because this wasn't at all what I wanted to know about.

In the kind of black and white we tend to live in, this kind of binary is easy to fall into, and hard to get out of (or be got out of).
 

MildredHubble

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
This is just my opinion based on my own experience. Perhaps there's something going on at school that he feels embarrassed to talk about. When you have been used to being misunderstood or feel like you don't fit in being in even what appear to be favourable circumstances can be still challenging.

When I wasn't much older than your son I had an extremely unpleasant time at school. Besides being considered the weird kid that didn't fit in I had developed severe acne and that made me the target for jokes and teasing. School/Highschool was ok in the academic sense, but this problem and the side effects of the treatment made going in each day highly traumatic.

I struggled socially and I had to wear this misery on my face every day where I was at the mercy of other people's rude comments. The treatments made my skin peel off and you can imagine what a boon that was to cruel people.

I felt embarrassed to talk about it. If I was asked about how things were going by my Dad, I would respond with short sharp answers. "Yes" "No" "Fine". I didn't want to talk about it. I felt ashamed that I wasn't "normal" like everyone else. When I was home, and as long as my mother left me be, I felt safe and I could luxuriate in my interests.

If I talked about what was bothering me, it was like I wasn't safe in my safe place.

The thing I'm trying to articulate is kinda subtle in a way but if your Son is trying to rattle off answers to get the conversation over as quickly as possible, it may be that right now not being at the school is giving him the separation from whatever situation. He perhaps wants to give the right responses to prevent you maybe asking a question about a subject that he doesn't feel able to discuss.

So on the surface, all the "instruments" read in the green zone.

As to what may be making him crave distance from school, maybe there's a girl he has a crush on and he's being teased by others? Or something similar. Perhaps something is going on socially that he feels unable to talk about because doing so would be like walking in to the room naked metaphorically.

My feeling is that if he's retreating back home, it may be necessary to try and work within that scenario with the school. I'm sure it's not the first time they've dealt with similar scenarios. Forcing him to go back before an unseen trouble or worry is addressed, might be counter productive in the long run.
 

The Lorax

Well-Known Member
Naw there isnt anything unpleasant about his school. All the kids love him. Which is usually the case in a small class environment for him. Same thing happened in Elementary school. He is funny, kind, and usually the smartest kid in the room.... cognitively. Teachers all told me this. They like him a lot. He is very respectful and if kids are acting out of line he says things to them the teacher can't to stop them from misbehaving. The teachers are quite appreciative of this.

Like he does none of the homework. His reason.... why do all this work for 10% of my grade when I already know it.
Yet he still doesn't do reports or projects despite it being 30% of his grade. I told teachers to test him instead of projects because he loses his mind, shuts down, then misses a lot of classes.

We told him we don't expect a straight "A" student, just do your best.

He feels like a loser because he is so smart and his closes friend is a straight "A" super student despite not being as smart as he is. She has to work very hard for her "A"s. People I know as smart as he is almost never do. They just absorb everything.

I was the had to work hard to do something kid.
My wife was the "yawn" learn by osmosis aspie kid.
She has 10 I.Q. points on me.

That difference is huge in high school.
 

Forest Cat

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Naw there isnt anything unpleasant about his school. All the kids love him. Which is usually the case in a small class environment for him. Same thing happened in Elementary school. He is funny, kind, and usually the smartest kid in the room.... cognitively. Teachers all told me this. They like him a lot. He is very respectful and if kids are acting out of line he says things to them the teacher can't to stop them from misbehaving. The teachers are quite appreciative of this.

Like he does none of the homework. His reason.... why do all this work for 10% of my grade when I already know it.
Yet he still doesn't do reports or projects despite it being 30% of his grade. I told teachers to test him instead of projects because he loses his mind, shuts down, then misses a lot of classes.

We told him we don't expect a straight "A" student, just do your best.

He feels like a loser because he is so smart and his closest friend is a straight "A" super student despite not being as smart as he is. She has to work very hard for her "A"s. People I know as smart as he is almost never do. They just absorb everything.

I was the had to work hard to do something kid.
My wife was the "yawn" learn by osmosis aspie kid.
She has 10 I.Q. points on me.

That difference is huge in high school.


If he is so smart, shouldn't he be moved up to a different class and given more challenging school work? It sounds like he is bored and doesn't have to put any effort into learning anything where he is now.
 
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Gerontius

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Went to only because he didn't want to fail school. He wants a HS diploma and not a GED.

Somehow he did everything on the last day of school to minimally pass, didn't study, and got A's on all his tests.

Grades AABBCC...... ##FACEPALM##
Sounds like he's intelligent though.
Unfortunately it's easy for people to end up thinking real life works like that--I'm afraid schools don't teach learning so mcuh as the y tea
Naw there isnt anything unpleasant about his school. All the kids love him. Which is usually the case in a small class environment for him. Same thing happened in Elementary school. He is funny, kind, and usually the smartest kid in the room.... cognitively. Teachers all told me this. They like him a lot. He is very respectful and if kids are acting out of line he says things to them the teacher can't to stop them from misbehaving. The teachers are quite appreciative of this.

Like he does none of the homework. His reason.... why do all this work for 10% of my grade when I already know it.
Yet he still doesn't do reports or projects despite it being 30% of his grade. I told teachers to test him instead of projects because he loses his mind, shuts down, then misses a lot of classes.

We told him we don't expect a straight "A" student, just do your best.

He feels like a loser because he is so smart and his closes friend is a straight "A" super student despite not being as smart as he is. She has to work very hard for her "A"s. People I know as smart as he is almost never do. They just absorb everything.

I was the had to work hard to do something kid.
My wife was the "yawn" learn by osmosis aspie kid.
She has 10 I.Q. points on me.

That difference is huge in high school.
Your boy sounds remarkably intelligent. Congratulations to him for at least passing.
I confess I was a lot like that when I was a little guy. I still have trouble now--when I'm in good shape, college is fine and I will work like a cart-horse but when mentally I run out of everything at once, I just do the Bare Minimum and maybe even not that.

What I had to do was finally go back to the doctor. I'm trying to put things together. I'm in college right now, in what is supposed to be my last semester, holding a respectable GPA from other semesters but failing this one. Mentally it wasn't good. I did not talk to my parents about much because they either freak out or they dont get it. My father is bad about trying to interpret everything through the lens of his experiences in the 1980s; those are valuable experiences but we are two completely different people.


The matter of "why do all this when I already know it" -- That right there tells me that your kid is very logical. School might not see it that way. I don't see it that way but I guarantee you in high school I'd be thinking the same--why be working to the standard of people who are lower I.Q. than yourself, if it's an academic thing? He might need to be challenged in school by something where "Being smart" doesn't get it, but "being capable of working with others" does. This is hard for lesson plans because group projects are always lousy.

I don't think the standard-issue high school is enough of a challenge for folks like your son. It's not engaging or whatever. Kids used to do 8 or 12 years of school and be done, and I do not think the good old USA school-to-jailhouse pipeline really offers a support for kids like that (or adults like that, either.)
 

1ForAll

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Naw there isnt anything unpleasant about his school. All the kids love him. Which is usually the case in a small class environment for him. Same thing happened in Elementary school. He is funny, kind, and usually the smartest kid in the room.... cognitively. Teachers all told me this. They like him a lot. He is very respectful and if kids are acting out of line he says things to them the teacher can't to stop them from misbehaving. The teachers are quite appreciative of this.

Like he does none of the homework. His reason.... why do all this work for 10% of my grade when I already know it.
Yet he still doesn't do reports or projects despite it being 30% of his grade. I told teachers to test him instead of projects because he loses his mind, shuts down, then misses a lot of classes.

We told him we don't expect a straight "A" student, just do your best.

He feels like a loser because he is so smart and his closes friend is a straight "A" super student despite not being as smart as he is. She has to work very hard for her "A"s. People I know as smart as he is almost never do. They just absorb everything.

I was the had to work hard to do something kid.
My wife was the "yawn" learn by osmosis aspie kid.
She has 10 I.Q. points on me.

That difference is huge in high school.

This reminds me a little of the stereotype of the very pretty, curvaceous and healthy looking blonde scenario.Why develop a personality or work hard in other ways, as I am so gifted with my genetic born looks, or in the son's case, my intelligence. That will take me everywhere in life I want to be. Why waste my efforts in those other areas, these person's could think.

But, yes, the huge difference is those with Autism may have much more difficulties adapting and in changing any or many ways, than for neurotypicals, so I take that into consideration too.

But, the theory of minimum effort and maximum return does not always work for many things in life. It may take us to higher places at times, yes, and we may develop some self esteem there, but often person's will be judged not by just one great thing. Person's may judge us by digging deeper or need more than that one big ability, as that could mean lots of issues elsewhere.

I do understand though that few person's rarely have everything, but I admit in my case, I felt any good to great grades I received meant little other than showing some hard work I did studying prior to the tests, which gave me more self esteem than even the grades themselves. But your son is from what it seems focused more on grades than effort.

I admit, others in my past and people in school and elsewhere in my life would keep commenting on either the negatives about my very shy and timid looks, or small stature, which I clearly saw, too, worsening my self esteem, but at times they mentioned the positives about my looks though which I did not see. Regardless, I wanted to be defined by other things, which others could not see.

So, from it sounds like, in your case your son either wants or needs to be seen for his intelligence or wants for things to come easy for him doing little physical or mental exertion, to show intelligence there, or in the opposite case he wants a bigger challenge, something he can be more proud of or that interests him more, not wanting something in between which bores or drains him. That might makes sense if black and white thinking is involved.

I just do not see how much long term good will come from a student who seems more focused on grades and less self motivated or with less energy to do all the work, or to focus on other issues that need to be addressed too. In life, sometimes we will have to do the boring stuff or things we do not like. It is not reasonable to want or need everything our way--or one way. Some accommodation is fine, but when will we keep wanting more and more.

Employers are smart enough to know grades do not mean everything. Is the employee self-motivated, communicative, flexible, reliable, full of zest or energy? Does he need many accommodations? They also may look for positive attitude, listening ability, and ability to follow instructions and do what is best for the company instead of themselves.

Of course other employers though may value your son if they see him as some brilliant employee to do things effectively and efficiently, and one who seems advanced with his knowledge there in that field too, and if he can solve problems they need help with. I cannot recall though what your son's specialty or hyperfocus of interest seems to be as of yet.

I just know part of the reason we homeschooled our son's is they have their own hyperfocuses of interest, and each wants or needs to do things differently than what would be allowed at school, and as frankly, we would not trust any official anyway who said things were just fine and rosy there. School officials are not going to admit any bullying or teaching wrongs there. At least though your son's teachers though seem to be somewhat flexible.

From the sound of it, your son wants to be seen as intellectually smart, but what is being overlooked is many other issues that contributes to his inability to adhere to certain reasonable requests and typical norms. The parents and school system seem to be focusing on his positives or his potential, but not addressing the Autism components that are the reason behind some of these difficulties and intolerances, thinking he will snap out of it or it is not important to talk about.

But, having precise answers what to do could be hard to figure out if all involved do not communicate effectively with each other, the difficulties, desires and needs, and if you all assume things, which could be far from reality. I know the op is trying really hard, and is more flexible than most parents would , and they need relief, but the son needs to realize that he is part of the problem if he thinks his ability to retain information means everything.

It does not, if applying what one learned does not occur, or if the other important issues seem to be of little or no priority or unable to be resolved or bettered without making matters worse.
 
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The Lorax

Well-Known Member
If he is so smart, shouldn't he be moved up to a different class and given more challenging school work? It sounds like he is bored and doesn't have to put any effort into learning anything where he is now.
He was. He couldn't handle the work.... DESPITE it being much easier than when I was a kid. It was almost dumbed down I want to say. He was in an AP class. To me the work was very easy. The kids today have it far, far, easier than I did. One project of his I tried to help him with I showed him how to do it under 30m. With the internet you can easily to a research paper on the high school level. The teachers have education degrees, they don't have that specific subject degree for any class that requires a paper (mostly). So if you have a report to do on how Napoleon came to power you just google it. It is that easy.

In my day we had to go to the library, find the right book, find the right section of the book.... repeat for 3 books as we needed at least 3 sources. Read, then write in our own words.

I can do today in 20m what took me 2 hours to do when I was a kid. The research part.
But even with this..... he can't handle it. He has a shutdown.

I sat him down a few times and just picked a topic out of thin air. Got my sources, got the material, and went to word to copy paste then modify. He can't do it or doesn't want to for whatever reason.

Now with GPTChat is it EVEN easier. You can take the key words and ask it to write a report. Copy paste and modify.

My mind is blown.
 

The Lorax

Well-Known Member
Sounds like he's intelligent though.
Unfortunately it's easy for people to end up thinking real life works like that--I'm afraid schools don't teach learning so mcuh as the y tea

Your boy sounds remarkably intelligent. Congratulations to him for at least passing.
I confess I was a lot like that when I was a little guy. I still have trouble now--when I'm in good shape, college is fine and I will work like a cart-horse but when mentally I run out of everything at once, I just do the Bare Minimum and maybe even not that.

What I had to do was finally go back to the doctor. I'm trying to put things together. I'm in college right now, in what is supposed to be my last semester, holding a respectable GPA from other semesters but failing this one. Mentally it wasn't good. I did not talk to my parents about much because they either freak out or they dont get it. My father is bad about trying to interpret everything through the lens of his experiences in the 1980s; those are valuable experiences but we are two completely different people.


The matter of "why do all this when I already know it" -- That right there tells me that your kid is very logical. School might not see it that way. I don't see it that way but I guarantee you in high school I'd be thinking the same--why be working to the standard of people who are lower I.Q. than yourself, if it's an academic thing? He might need to be challenged in school by something where "Being smart" doesn't get it, but "being capable of working with others" does. This is hard for lesson plans because group projects are always lousy.

I don't think the standard-issue high school is enough of a challenge for folks like your son. It's not engaging or whatever. Kids used to do 8 or 12 years of school and be done, and I do not think the good old USA school-to-jailhouse pipeline really offers a support for kids like that (or adults like that, either.)
I don't disagree with you here. Between my wife and I we understand quite a bit about how education should be. We both have degrees in fields that allow us to see how things should be. But they aren't even after 200 years of this country teaching. The worst part is that the issues are at the top not the bottom.

Our opinion..... reading, writing, math are the 3 things you need to do well when young. Everything else shouldn't be really graded. It should be taken but not graded. With these 3 you can do anything.

As for school..... here is the truth. Unless you plan on working for NASA, some huge law firm, be a CEO of some massive company that pays you tens of millions of dollars a year...... where you get your 4 year and your grades really don't matter. The only this that matters is where you get your masters and how many you have. In the real world people don't care about your GPA. From our observation and experience. You go to that interview and show critical thinking skills to the person that matters with being educated you will get the job.

If I ran a company sure I would look at the degree but I also would look at how well the person thinks. I can't tell you how many people I met with masters degrees that no one was home. It's like they were good students and memorized what they needed to know and that's it.

Then I know people with no degree or just a 4 year who's critical thinking skills are off the chart and I would hire them over the other guy.

That degree gets you past the A.I. resume qualifier program.

Question.... what is the reason why you are gung ho sometimes and blah other times with school? Is it just medication? Brain fog due to neurology? Depression? Anxiety? Do the chemical swings come in waves or is it just accumulation of stress that gets to a point you can't handle?
 

The Lorax

Well-Known Member
This reminds me a little of the stereotype of the very pretty, curvaceous and healthy looking blonde scenario.Why develop a personality or work hard in other ways, as I am so gifted with my genetic born looks, or in the son's case, my intelligence. That will take me everywhere in life I want to be. Why waste my efforts in those other areas, these person's could think.

But, yes, the huge difference is those with Autism may have much more difficulties adapting and in changing any or many ways, than for neurotypicals, so I take that into consideration too.

But, the theory of minimum effort and maximum return does not always work for many things in life. It may take us to higher places at times, yes, and we may develop some self esteem there, but often person's will be judged not by just one great thing. Person's may judge us by digging deeper or need more than that one big ability, as that could mean lots of issues elsewhere.

I do understand though that few person's rarely have everything, but I admit in my case, I felt any good to great grades I received meant little other than showing some hard work I did studying prior to the tests, which gave me more self esteem than even the grades themselves. But your son is from what it seems focused more on grades than effort.

I admit, others in my past and people in school and elsewhere in my life would keep commenting on either the negatives about my very shy and timid looks, or small stature, which I clearly saw, too, worsening my self esteem, but at times they mentioned the positives about my looks though which I did not see. Regardless, I wanted to be defined by other things, which others could not see.

So, from it sounds like, in your case your son either wants or needs to be seen for his intelligence or wants for things to come easy for him doing little physical or mental exertion, to show intelligence there, or in the opposite case he wants a bigger challenge, something he can be more proud of or that interests him more, not wanting something in between which bores or drains him. That might makes sense if black and white thinking is involved.

I just do not see how much long term good will come from a student who seems more focused on grades and less self motivated or with less energy to do all the work, or to focus on other issues that need to be addressed too. In life, sometimes we will have to do the boring stuff or things we do not like. It is not reasonable to want or need everything our way--or one way. Some accommodation is fine, but when will we keep wanting more and more.

Employers are smart enough to know grades do not mean everything. Is the employee self-motivated, communicative, flexible, reliable, full of zest or energy? Does he need many accommodations? They also may look for positive attitude, listening ability, and ability to follow instructions and do what is best for the company instead of themselves.

Of course other employers though may value your son if they see him as some brilliant employee to do things effectively and efficiently, and one who seems advanced with his knowledge there in that field too, and if he can solve problems they need help with. I cannot recall though what your son's specialty or hyperfocus of interest seems to be as of yet.

I just know part of the reason we homeschooled our son's is they have their own hyperfocuses of interest, and each wants or needs to do things differently than what would be allowed at school, and as frankly, we would not trust any official anyway who said things were just fine and rosy there. School officials are not going to admit any bullying or teaching wrongs there. At least though your son's teachers though seem to be somewhat flexible.

From the sound of it, your son wants to be seen as intellectually smart, but what is being overlooked is many other issues that contributes to his inability to adhere to certain reasonable requests and typical norms. The parents and school system seem to be focusing on his positives or his potential, but not addressing the Autism components that are the reason behind some of these difficulties and intolerances, thinking he will snap out of it or it is not important to talk about.

But, having precise answers what to do could be hard to figure out if all involved do not communicate effectively with each other, the difficulties, desires and needs, and if you all assume things, which could be far from reality. I know the op is trying really hard, and is more flexible than most parents would , and they need relief, but the son needs to realize that he is part of the problem if he thinks his ability to retain information means everything.

It does not, if applying what one learned does not occur, or if the other important issues seem to be of little or no priority or unable to be resolved or bettered without making matters worse.
You got it on the nose... I think.... he has no motivation. He wants to be that "A" student. He doesn't want to do the work or it stressed him out too much.

I gave him lots of options that he can do himself, work for himself, make his own money. He can do what he likes and be successful by 25.

I highly suspect he got my school genes and not my straight "A" wife's genes. I had little motivation for school and did the minimum till I was 25. I swapped majors 3x.

The difference is I didn't have me for a father. My parents were not involved in my education. I had zero guidance and help. College was cheap back then. Our school system sucked where I was raised.

My son has all our help. We are hoping when he turns 16-17 things will change. The private school has been great with him. He ended with AABBBC grades. I forgot he got a free class that counts. But 2 weeks ago he was AACFF
 

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