Help me understand my teenage aspie

[The Lorax]

I've posted before here asking for help and I got good advice. But the scenery keeps changing like I have a different child in the house. When one thing gets resolved it's another issue.

My son is brilliant and 15, kind, empathetic, thoughtful, and doesn't do anything wrong that we can tell.
My son loves me. Like to do everything with me. Tells me I am his best friend. Tells me I he is happy he has such a wise father. We have a good relationship.
We got him in a small special private school after he couldn't handle regular high school.
He has made friends and everyone loves him. Great for his social intelligence.
He was doing well but can't do projects so the teachers adapted to his strength, test taking.
He was having trouble getting up and we realized it was the melatonin interfering with medication.
We stopped it and he could go to sleep with few issues. One less thing he needs to take.
After we stopped it 4 weeks ago he was grabbing me so we aren't late to school. Great! Cool! Awesome! Teachers happy.
He signed up for martial arts again and was going twice a week. Wow amazing.
This went on for 2 weeks. Who is this amazing child?

Then....

He didn't want to go to martial arts.
last week. "I don't want to go to school" he missed 1 class but finally went because we have a rule. No school, no electronics during school time.
Then it became 2 classes.
Then he went to school because I insisted but literally did nothing and sat there all day doing nothing sitting in an office not going to 3 classes.
Then 2 days, then 3 days late 1 or 2 classes. It keeps getting worse.
Today he said I am not going. No reason just not going.

I asked directed questions.
Are you sad? no
Are you feeling anxiety? no
Is the work too hard? no
Is there someone bothering you? no
Is there a teacher you don't like? no
Do you hate your classes? no ........... and I went through the list.
Then why do you not want to go to school? I don't know.
Do you want to graduate high school? Yes
If you don't go to school you will have to get a GED? I know.

..... frankly it doesn't make a crap of a difference if he gets a diploma or GED. He was a straight A student until 9th grade then his grades gradually started dropping. Now he is probably failing 2 courses this year and getting Cs and Bs in the rest except math. I told him take 2-3 courses you like that is covered by the scholarship and take the GED. This way you make the social friends keep up with math and still go to college on a high SAT score. He knows all this. He doesn't want to.

Do you want to quit school and get a GED? No
You know if you don't do the work you fail right? Yes
Do you want to go to college? Yes
.... The college he wants has a minimum GPA that he doesn't have but can get in his last 2 years.

He sat in his room all day doing nothing for 2 hours. Then read a book in the dark. Then sat outside. Then went back and did nothing for 2 more hours.
He is humming and singing the whole way. I know my child well enough this isn't depression or anxiety.

He is mad that he feels I am disappointment in him. I am irritated because he can't sit here all day. My wife and I have to work. He interferes with that life.

I know my child really well. He isn't depressed, he isn't anxious. He is singing and skipping the entire day.

3:30 came around.
"Can I go on my computer now?"

Everyone is bending over backwards to accommodate him. I don't know what to do anymore.
We just spent $3000 on DBT that was completely useless in helping him.
We are killing ourselves to help him.

I can't have him sitting around the home doing nothing interrupting our work day.

If he was sad, depressed, anxiety, I can help fix that. But it's just nope I'm not going for no good reason. When he just went all gung ho for 2 weeks straight.

 

[tree]

Can you draw him out with open ended questions?
Questions that can't be answered with just a yes or no ?

 

[The Lorax]

He doesn't answered open ended questions. The usual answer is "I don't know" and if I say "ok I will wait until you can think a little" he sits there for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes with his head covered. Yea I used that tactic. It rarely works to get an answer out of him.

 

[tree]

That's frustrating.

-----
I had to look up what DBT meant.

Dialectical Behavioral Therapy for Mental Health Problems

WebMD explains the benefits of dialectical behavioral therapy for borderline personality disorder and other self-destructive behaviors.

www.webmd.com

 

[330]

I did not want to go to school either starting at age 13 .

I could not express it at the time or understand what was wrong . As the grade levels went up and I increased in age .
I was no longer seen as the quiet genius in school that intrigued teachers and some peers. I was now considered rude and condescending to teachers and awkward ,weird and antisocial to my peers.

I now understand it was due to the work load of social demands and cues . The transition from being a child to teenager demands a lot more of socializing, and trying to fill in all the blanks .

Because of this I was constantly drained . I did not know why . What NTs do naturally we have to work 10 times harder to even seem somewhat functional in every aspect of life .

Like the flick of the switch I just wanted to focus on my special interests and stim . I did not care at all about education in school, because of what I just explained .

If a one on one teacher was available to me and nobody else was in the classroom and there was no demand to be around people , I would have thrived . I understand this is not a reality for most since the world is not designed for autistic people . It is designed for the complete opposite in every way.

My parents forced me to go until my breaking point because it was inconvenient to have me home.
All it did was put me in perpetual hell.Until I burned out completely from school.


I would suggest focus on him doing his GED test and get his diploma. Since that is the only reason one is in school .

 

[AO1501]

Sad to say I recognize this. I have a 15 year old, just started high school in September, and always been pretty much straight As. He's never been particularly vocal, but still communicative when he needed to be, until suddenly one day at school, he returned to a classroom he'd just left, sat down, hung his head down, and went totally unresponsive.

He mostly refused to go to school after that, and mostly wouldn't even respond to yes/no questions.

What's worse is that for months, nobody was prepared to see him and treat him, and in the meantime he'd refused to eat and had to be taken to ER twice, and would stand in the kitchen for hours at a time, staring at the wall, not moving. Any time he did move, he walked backwards.

We forced him to school with the 'you don't have a choice' approach, and it made him even worse, particularly since he seemed to lose trust in us for doing it. Yet some days, he'd get up, get himself ready, and head out the door for the school bus as if nothing was wrong. Next day, he'd be head down, totally unresponsive.

We're pretty sure something happened to him at school. He's always been what other kids would have probably thought of as very strange, or even weird, but seemed generally happy until then. I suspect he was being bullied, but there's no way to know and his responses when there were any were always noncommittal on everything.

We had been very concerned at the school loading him up with homework and the school itself is incredibly big and very aspie-unfriendly, which was certainly not a help, and could have been the problem, but he tended to indicate otherwise.

He's finally in treatment, and has been given anti-anxiety meds, which are helping to some degree so at least he's more responsive, and has 2 hours home schooling with a teacher every day - still gets mostly straight As in the process - but is only about 30-40% of who he was.

The frustration is not knowing the cause, and thus not knowing how to approach helping him.

 

[The Lorax]

The frustration is not knowing the cause, and thus not knowing how to approach helping him.

Exactly. In his case it isn't anything. He is really smart, he passes tests easily, scored top 1% PSAT.

 

[The Lorax]

He doesn't want a GED. That's the problem.

 

[330]

Logical intelligence is different compared to social intelligence.

Being good at tests is good.
So I thought. Seems to be all schools care about .

This does not prepare you for the real world . The real world systems are based of social communication and social intelligence, one could be lazy and not smart and be the most successful by having social intelligence and good communication.

If I could earn my living taking tests this would be my utopia.

Not reality

 

[AO1501]

Speaking not just as the parent of an aspie, but as one myself, I think you may have to be careful not to conflate your frustration with his problem. They are not the same.

There IS a cause, and the fact he is smart may well actually be part of that problem. And even though he may not respond as if he wants a GED, this is anything BUT the problem. It's a symptom, and one which you have a lot of time to help resolve.

Presuming that you're not on the spectrum yourself (with apologies for telling you the obvious if you are), your route to helping him has to be through understanding why he came to a screeching halt and ceased to want to participate. That is the problem to find and overcome, not his apparent wish not to bother with high school graduation or a GED.

I can certainly see how, as @Moogwizard describes, the school environment is capable of totally overwhelming a teenager who has enough to try and cope with with just the hormone surges. Add any perception off a shift in the way he thinks his teachers, the ones who motivate school attendance and participation see him, and you do have a recipe for a variety of teenage angst which would be rather unique to an aspie child.

I can't give you good advice or I'd have taken it myself and had a wonderfully fixed aspie 15-year-old, but I can tell you with certainty that schools can be very hostile to aspies without trying to be. It's hardly surprising if some react poorly to it once they begin to mature from being mere followers in society to being people in their own right.

 

[1ForAll]

You sound like a well-meaning parent and have tried to do so much for your son, to get him so far, but sometimes as parents we try too hard, have clouded judgment, need to step back and reevaluate things, or need to be more flexible or open minded in our attitude or approach. It can be hard yes, but during times like these I try to get other opinions too. So I hope my feedback will be well received.

Can he be so kind, thoughtful, empathetic and loving that he is afraid to disappoint you by telling you what he really wants instead, or is your description of him not accurate but a mask he feels he must portray to you to not upset you? So he says all the short answers you want to hear, but his actions say otherwise.

Could he feel pressure to live up to your standards, every time you tell him he is brilliant,empathetic, thoughtful and when you make all those extra efforts and expenses, but that is not him so the mask comes off under extreme duress and depression intensifies and he wants to be more himself then or do nothing,?

Yes I know he succeeded in the past and had/has friends, but what if that really does not make him happy? What if it is a mirage you are seeing. What if he was masking who he was or trying to fit in and do his best for you--and not him. And so when you imply to us or him you know him well and that he is not depressed or anxious,could you be wrong there?

What if you told him, "Son, I am sorry if you are feeling pressure from me or us in any way to succeed or to live up to the perceived expectations we have for you based on the abilities we see, but maybe I am wrong there. Maybe you want something different that I am not aware of. Maybe you are afraid to tell me what you really want or can handle."

And perhaps you could further then say "Maybe I need to be a better father at allowing you to feel safe with me even if you do not want to pursue any further education after you reach the age of consent there to determine what to do there. Maybe I need to create an environment where you feel like you can be yourself, give you space and give you time to find what in life will make you happy. Maybe my definition of happiness is different from yours."

I am sorry this may not be the answer you are looking for, but I think your son's action speak louder than his words, as he seems afraid to be seen as not a success for you. So the more you praise him for brilliancy, past great grades, friends and future loftier future plans, then something kicks in, not by his words to you, which could be fiction, but by his actions.

Perhaps he wants to feel loved unconditionally, for goals and dreams that may be way lower than your expectations of him. Not all brilliant people are super successful at education or occupation.. It's because other things motivate them more. They want and need other things, not that stuff which may mean not much to them.

Perhaps I am wrong in everything I say here, but at least I am giving another perspective for you to consider. Perhaps there is a simpler other reason why he shows the two extremes at times. If you are Autistic it may or may not also be harder for you to pick up on his nonverbal cues, if he even shows any of that.

You may assume things about him that may not be not true in his eyes. What if he does not see himself as brilliant? What if he does not see himself as thoughtful and empathetic? What if one or more of his friends are not really acting like friends? What if he never wanted to get a great education? What if he says things just to make you all happy, sensing you will feel ashamed or have much stress otherwise? What if he succeeded then just to please you?

 

[1ForAll]

I'm sorry but this is coddling. Level 5 coddling. That's the last thing a 15 year old needs. Yes he's an aspie but he's not a delicate fragile porcelain flower. Sorry if you are feeling pressure from me, no. Five words; Go to school. No discussion.

So explain why 90% of Autistics are unemployed? I will await your answer. It's not because nine out of ten parents are coddlers. It's because society tries to make them someone they are not. Yes,some succeed, but at what costs to their health. And what about the rest? The "grow up be a man" routine never worked for us. And the op's lofty expectations routine is not working either. You want him to be whipped? Or to critique him? That is brilliant.( Sarcastic.)

And your "Go to school. End of discussion" reply will lead to what? He shows up to school and does nothing. Are the teachers or his dad going to force him to do the work, wack his hand with a ruler, or wash his mouth out with soap then? Or take away some privilege with which the son will roll his eyes at? Then at age 16 or 18 he emancipates from that domineering unempathetic father who said that or acted that way, if not is some sad statistic about another biting the dust or being incapacitated, like family of mine, because of an overbearing, unemotional and/or success-driven parent.

Thanks to our parents!

(Sarcastic again)

 

[Prometheus]

"The cocoon is formed during the pupa stage. After the caterpillars have eaten enough and undergone several instars, they develop a firm outer layer called the chrysalis. This layer allows them to protect themselves from the dangers of the outer world while they develop into butterflies."

uhm, "it's a just a phase," comes to mind. I'm not sure there's much you can do, except boot camp, or some kind of incentive based program to gain some kind of orderly compliance.

"Both reinforcement and punishment can either be positive or negative: Positive reinforcement is the addition of a positive outcome to strengthen behavior. Negative reinforcement is the removal of a negative outcome to strengthen a behavior. Positive punishment involves taking away a desired stimulus to weaken a behavior."

 

[1ForAll]

Doesn't an autism diagnosis come with an iqtest? That would be prove if his son's true capabilities.

IQ test is separate. There are other tests to determine Autism, like ADOS, ADI-R etc. Let's say even if an IQ test were done, that does not mean the child must proceed with an advanced education or traditional occupation. He could be disabled regardless of intelligence, if practical living skills and daily living activities were hard and other dysfunction showed up elsewhere too. Tons of people are not working or functional in main areas in their life even if intelligent. The myth is intelligent person's can not be disabled.

 

[1ForAll]

Ofcourse he could be disabled regardless. I was thinking that if a person with autism does have a very high intelligence it may be a better idea for them to aim at an average life (and give people the impression they are average) and use the intelligence in some way to compensate for things that autism makes them bad at.

That is a good question to ponder, but in my opinion intelligence level for Autistics likely has no bearing on if one is more likely to be employed, have an average life, or be happy for instance. Of that ten percent employed, many could be even on the lower end of the spectrum, as less expectations are expected from society for those persons.

There will be greater societal, educational and occupational expectations placed on one with Autism at perceived higher intelligence, thus increasing more pressure on those person's to not be themselves and to fit in. So, they'd likely be just as unhappy or unemployed, as the other core components of their Autism can come into play besides intelligence or cognition.

 

[The Lorax]

Me spectrum - No I am not. I do suspect I have ADD though. No H part. I am very smart but didn't do well at school myself. But I went. I did the what was required, and I passed. When I failed a class I went to summer school. I failed because I hated the class and was too stupid to ask for a change of class.

Tests - If he studied at home and passed all the tests I wouldn't be on him about physically going. But he doesn't. Last week he missed an entire week of science. He likes science. I said "the teacher gave you the notes to the test. Just sit outside and read them 3x. You will pass the test". I flatly said "I don't feel like it" and promptly failed the test.

#1ForAll - I just tell my son the truth. He can do what he wants but STEM is the most secure career path. I give him all the options. He wants to go to college. He wants to go to a specific college for computer science. We tell him a GED is ok. It doesn't matter. If you want to go to this college get the GED and you can start at a community college taking 1 class a semester. NOPE! It is frustrating because he doesn't want to help himself.

It's 15-25% unemployed of all people on the spectrum as of 2021. This depends on the source you read.

The teachers love him. He engages. They ask him to do work he does except the big papers and projects. He likes taking tests.

Well tonight we sat him down and just told him how it's going to be. We said we aren't paying for school next year if you don't go. We are middle class not rich. We work hard. The $10k public grant will get you 2 classes. We aren't putting in a dime. You can take the GED. He was upset. We told him he still gets into his college with a GED... I found that out tonight if he passes an entrance exam. We explained he has to go to school for these minimal classes otherwise he has to take them in college.

We can't let him sit around all day on the computer in the dark. That's what he does when he isn't in school.
My wife is having a mental breakdown over all this and we can't afford her to. She is the main bread winner. She has what he has.... autism, depression, anxiety, ADD. But his meds keep him good. Her meds aren't working well.

 

[1ForAll]

Me spectrum - No I am not. I do suspect I have ADD though. No H part. I am very smart but didn't do well at school myself. But I went. I did the what was required, and I passed. When I failed a class I went to summer school. I failed because I hated the class and was too stupid to ask for a change of class.

Tests - If he studied at home and passed all the tests I wouldn't be on him about physically going. But he doesn't. Last week he missed an entire week of science. He likes science. I said "the teacher gave you the notes to the test. Just sit outside and read them 3x. You will pass the test". I flatly said "I don't feel like it" and promptly failed the test.

#1ForAll - I just tell my son the truth. He can do what he wants but STEM is the most secure career path. I give him all the options. He wants to go to college. He wants to go to a specific college for computer science. We tell him a GED is ok. It doesn't matter. If you want to go to this college get the GED and you can start at a community college taking 1 class a semester. NOPE! It is frustrating because he doesn't want to help himself.

It's 15-25% unemployed of all people on the spectrum as of 2021. This depends on the source you read.

The teachers love him. He engages. They ask him to do work he does except the big papers and projects. He likes taking tests.

Well tonight we sat him down and just told him how it's going to be. We said we aren't paying for school next year if you don't go. We are middle class not rich. We work hard. The $10k public grant will get you 2 classes. We aren't putting in a dime. You can take the GED. He was upset. We told him he still gets into his college with a GED... I found that out tonight if he passes an entrance exam. We explained he has to go to school for these minimal classes otherwise he has to take them in college.

We can't let him sit around all day on the computer in the dark. That's what he does when he isn't in school.
My wife is having a mental breakdown over all this and we can't afford her to. She is the main bread winner. She has what he has.... autism, depression, anxiety, ADD. But his meds keep him good. Her meds aren't working well.

The statistics I read are 85-90% of Autistics are unemployed, and I read that consistently from many sources, so I would more apt to trust percentages there than the low percentage you cited. But I did see percentages as low as 63% from a quick search too. The large disparity would depend on the study.

The point is it is a big percentage, and that does not even count how many are functioning there at work.Some need to work for survival. I get that. But, many jobs may even be shorter term or part time jobs, so that is why stats may vary too. Regardless, I will wish the best for your son. It's never easy when these difficulties occur which puts stress on the whole family.

 

[HenleyMae]

Me spectrum - No I am not. I do suspect I have ADD though. No H part. I am very smart but didn't do well at school myself. But I went. I did the what was required, and I passed. When I failed a class I went to summer school. I failed because I hated the class and was too stupid to ask for a change of class.

Tests - If he studied at home and passed all the tests I wouldn't be on him about physically going. But he doesn't. Last week he missed an entire week of science. He likes science. I said "the teacher gave you the notes to the test. Just sit outside and read them 3x. You will pass the test". I flatly said "I don't feel like it" and promptly failed the test.

#1ForAll - I just tell my son the truth. He can do what he wants but STEM is the most secure career path. I give him all the options. He wants to go to college. He wants to go to a specific college for computer science. We tell him a GED is ok. It doesn't matter. If you want to go to this college get the GED and you can start at a community college taking 1 class a semester. NOPE! It is frustrating because he doesn't want to help himself.

It's 15-25% unemployed of all people on the spectrum as of 2021. This depends on the source you read.

The teachers love him. He engages. They ask him to do work he does except the big papers and projects. He likes taking tests.

Well tonight we sat him down and just told him how it's going to be. We said we aren't paying for school next year if you don't go. We are middle class not rich. We work hard. The $10k public grant will get you 2 classes. We aren't putting in a dime. You can take the GED. He was upset. We told him he still gets into his college with a GED... I found that out tonight if he passes an entrance exam. We explained he has to go to school for these minimal classes otherwise he has to take them in college.

We can't let him sit around all day on the computer in the dark. That's what he does when he isn't in school.
My wife is having a mental breakdown over all this and we can't afford her to. She is the main bread winner. She has what he has.... autism, depression, anxiety, ADD. But his meds keep him good. Her meds aren't working well.

This may be a time where he has to learn the consequences of failing, like you did when you failed a class. Consequences aren't a necessarily a bad thing. But also, his failing class will not be the end of the world. Yes, it will throw off his plans, but maybe that means he has to work at a fast food place for a bit, and see that working in that kind of environment is not one he wants to work in for the rest of his life. He has to take responsibility for his learning.

 

[AutistAcolyte]

I did not want to go to school either starting at age 13 .

I could not express it at the time or understand what was wrong . As the grade levels went up and I increased in age .
I was no longer seen as the quiet genius in school that intrigued teachers and some peers. I was now considered rude and condescending to teachers and awkward ,weird and antisocial to my peers.

I now understand it was due to the work load of social demands and cues . The transition from being a child to teenager demands a lot more of socializing, and trying to fill in all the blanks .

Because of this I was constantly drained . I did not know why . What NTs do naturally we have to work 10 times harder to even seem somewhat functional in every aspect of life .

Like the flick of the switch I just wanted to focus on my special interests and stim . I did not care at all about education in school, because of what I just explained .

If a one on one teacher was available to me and nobody else was in the classroom and there was no demand to be around people , I would have thrived . I understand this is not a reality for most since the world is not designed for autistic people . It is designed for the complete opposite in every way.

My parents forced me to go until my breaking point because it was inconvenient to have me home.
All it did was put me in perpetual hell.Until I burned out completely from school.


I would suggest focus on him doing his GED test and get his diploma. Since that is the only reason one is in school .

seconding this.

i havent thought about high school much since i found out i am autistic/adhd, but i was also the student who didnt have to try, and when i got to high school i just got kind of burnt out and spent most of my free time playing video games at home. my grades suffered a bit and my friend group shrunk (not that i was unfriendly with people, but i really only hung out regularly with three or four friends.)

it seems like the increasing demand of going from child to teenager is a kind of crucible, especially for the neurodivergent.

i would also say @The Lorax, while you may not think your son is depressed (and even he may not think he's depressed) its entirely possible that he is depressed.

i'm not making light of suicide, or suggesting that your son is suicidal, but it took me a while to figure out that not everyone thinks regularly about how nice it would be to be dead.

 

[VictorR]

The statistics I read are 85-90% of Autistics are unemployed, and I read that consistently from many sources, so I would more apt to trust percentages there than the low percentage you cited. But I did see percentages as low as 63% from a quick search too. The large disparity would depend on the study.

The point is it is a big percentage, and that does not even count how many are functioning there at work.Some need to work for survival. I get that. But, many jobs may even be shorter term or part time jobs, so that is why stats may vary too. Regardless, I will wish the best for your son. It's never easy when these difficulties occur which puts stress on the whole family.

In Canada, the employment rate for those on the spectrum was reported to be 33% in the 2017 Canadian Survey on Disability, which is based on responses from the 2016 census. This is significantly higher than the 12% reported in a 2012 report, and I suspect it's because when the earlier one came out, most of those with a autism diagnosis were either relatively young and/or had co-occuring conditions or needs that more severely impacted their ability to participate in the workforce.

In Unmasking Autism (pp 126-127), Price suggests 40% unemployment, and I'm inclined to agree that is likely a fair estimate given that there are many adults on the spectrum who are working or have since retired who have yet to realize that they are autistic.

In any case, the unemployment rates for autistic persons are significantly higher than those with disabilities in general.